156 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

Alpine are apparently waiting to around the British GP to decide whether they are going to let Piastri join Alpine or to keep Fernando punching in his time card each morning. But we can chat about it now. Is this the end of the F1 line for Fernando? Should it be?

[SophieB]

I mean obviously I'd pick Fernando but I have the luxury about not having to care about Piastri's driver development, overall future of the team and stuff like that.

[blacky]

Thing is that ALO seems to be not only constantly quicker than OCO this year, he is also the main reason why the team gets attention. 

 

OCO and PIA next year in a midfield car, I would be pretty worried from a marketing point of view.

[Risil]

Alpine should keep him! Piastri could go somewhere else. Or Piastri could get the drive and Alonso could go somewhere else. I'd like to see them both in F1 next year, ideally.

I could definitely see McLaren snapping up Alonso for another sequel. The young guys will be too fast for Fernando one day but you never know precisely when it will happen. I'd like to see him keep racing till he's 56 like Nuvolari did, but I haven't checked with him (Alonso, not Nuvolari) or Alpine about whether that's part of their plans.

As a side note, Ocon and his management have done well to be excluded from this conversation!

[Clatter]

Alpine should keep him! Piastri could go somewhere else. Or Piastri could get the drive and Alonso could go somewhere else. I'd like to see them both in F1 next year, ideally.

I could definitely see McLaren snapping up Alonso for another sequel. The young guys will be too fast for Fernando one day but you never know precisely when it will happen. I'd like to keep racing till he's 56 like Nuvolari did, but I haven't checked with him (Alonso, not Nuvolari) or Alpine about whether that's part of their plans.

As a side note, Ocon and his management have done well to be excluded from this conversation!

Ocon is already contracted for next year. Alonso's contract is up.

Edited by Clatter, 19 May 2022 - 08:46.

[Risil]

Ocon is already contacted for next year. Alonso's contract is up.

 

That's what I meant! Good negotiation.

[dissident]

I would like to see Piastri (not a fan of comebacks), but unless Alonso is not performing I think they will pick him.

[BRG]

What is it about Piastri that makes him such a mega-factor in everything?  I have never known a young driver with zero F1 experience to be hyped so highly and touted around so much.  Not Hamilton, not Hulkenberg, not Vandoorne, not evne Alonso himself, back in the dim distant past.

 

Oscar is just another promising lad who might turn out to be OK, or might (and sadly this is statistically more likely) turn out ot be a dud, or might, just might, a very small chance, turn out to be great.  Alpine haven't given him a drive, nobody else is kicking the door down to get him, so the F1 community don't seem to be as enthusiastic about him.

 

Keep Alonso while is driving well - he is a big attention grabber.  If Alpine lose Piastri, never mind,  like the No 9 bus, another one will be along soon

[Claudius]

How can this even be an issue Alpine?!

Alonso is still delivering. 

[PlatenGlass]

It would be insane if Piastri didn't get an F1 drive next year, whether at Alpine or elsewhere. And to be honest, I'm not sure of the thinking behind the three-year Ocon deal.

As for why the hype around Piastri - he won F2 in his first year last year having won F3 in his first year in 2020. Not completely unheard of but most F2 champions are in their second year (or 25th year in the case of Maldonado and Palmer) and it's rare for a junior driver to be that successful and not go straight into F1. So it's not just hype but a reaction to a perceived injustice. He should be in F1 already and it's an indictment on F1 as a system that he's not.

[Risil]

I would like to see Piastri (not a fan of comebacks), but unless Alonso is not performing I think they will pick him.

But who is making the comeback? Piastri's the one whose career stalled after winning the F2 championship.

[RedRabbit]

An unknown vs one of the sports all time greats? This can only be a question if Alonso is actually starting to look around himself.

He can't have much confidence in Alpine after they sacrificed 2 years to develop a car no faster than before, and far more fragile.

[SophieB]

An unknown vs one of the sports all time greats? This can only be a question if Alonso is actually starting to look around himself.

He can't have much confidence in Alpine after they sacrificed 2 years to develop a car no faster than before, and far more fragile.

 

Alonso seems keen to press on with it all.

 

The team have the choice between continuing with Alonso or promoting their reserve driver, the promising Australian Oscar Piastri, but Alonso says he believes he will be able to continue. The topic has been broached with Alpine chief executive Laurent Rossi but formal negotiations have not yet started.

"We didn't talk officially," Alonso says. "We just had a couple of coffees. But, yeah, I think the possibility will be there.

"The motivation is still there to win and to close that gap [to the front] even if we know how extremely difficult it is going to be.

"We know there are a couple of things we can do. This first year of the new regulations you learn a lot from other cars and other philosophies, so there are a lot of shortcuts in performance you can find very easily.

"Next year or the next two years I would love to continue and keep driving because I feel at my best right now and it would be wrong to watch F1 from home and from the living room while I still feel 100% of my abilities.

"When I feel it is not that way, I will be the first to raise my hand and stop because F1 is very demanding; you have to sacrifice a lot of things in life to keep racing. But at the moment it is still worth doing it."

Spanish Grand Prix: 'Welcome to my world, Lewis!' Fernando Alonso on life in F1 - BBC Sport

[SenorSjon]

Alonso 100%. Let Piastri gain experience in a lower tier team or lobby for F2 to drop the 'champion-cannot-defend-rule'. It is Ocon you should be worried about. He got beaten last year by Alonso while Alonso was out of it for a couple of years, this season Ocon is ahead due to Alonso having a lot of bad luck (SA car failure, AUS SC at the worst possible time, Imola reworked sidepod at the start). Would you buy fan gear for an Ocon-Piastri line-up?

[noikeee]

Thing is that ALO seems to be not only constantly quicker than OCO this year

He's finished behind Ocon every single race this year, and twice in 5 qualifyings. There may be bad luck involved with how some of the races unfolded, but I'm not super convinced by Alonso's form.

[SenorSjon]

It would be insane if Piastri didn't get an F1 drive next year, whether at Alpine or elsewhere. And to be honest, I'm not sure of the thinking behind the three-year Ocon deal.

As for why the hype around Piastri - he won F2 in his first year last year having won F3 in his first year in 2020. Not completely unheard of but most F2 champions are in their second year (or 25th year in the case of Maldonado and Palmer) and it's rare for a junior driver to be that successful and not go straight into F1. So it's not just hype but a reaction to a perceived injustice. He should be in F1 already and it's an indictment on F1 as a system that he's not.

 

Frijns also won 3 jr. classes on the trot in a time when the FR3.5 had a stronger field than GP2, but never made it into F1. It is not unheard of.

[Risil]

What is it about Piastri that makes him such a mega-factor in everything?  I have never known a young driver with zero F1 experience to be hyped so highly and touted around so much.  Not Hamilton, not Hulkenberg, not Vandoorne, not evne Alonso himself, back in the dim distant past.

 

It's the F3 and F2 championships in consecutive years. Last driver to do that (IIRC) was Charles Leclerc, who is alright. But the drivers you mention did all get F1 drives after winning in GP2. The excessive touting is because Piastri didn't. It's a bit like Mark Hughes was saying a couple of months ago though, the more Piastri doesn't race, the better he was.

 

For more dedicated F2 watchers than me though -- did you get a sense that Piastri was special while he was in F2? Or was it relatively weak competition? Because that is how junior formulae go. Lando Norris's second place in F2 was worth more than some people's championships.

[PlatenGlass]

Frijns also won 3 jr. classes on the trot in a time when the FR3.5 had a stronger field than GP2, but never made it into F1. It is not unheard of.

People questioned at the time why Frijns never got a chance as well.

[SenorSjon]

He's finished behind Ocon every single race this year, and twice in 5 qualifyings. There may be bad luck involved with how some of the races unfolded, but I'm not super convinced by Alonso's form.

 

Bahrain

Q 8 vs 11 

R 9 vs 7 

 

SA

Q 7 vs 5

R DNF vs 6 (Alonso was ahead when his car failed)

 

AUS

Q 10* vs 8 (Alonso car failure in Q3 while setting purples)

R 17 vs 7 (Alonso went H >>> M but had the gaps cleared due to the SC, so lost out big time there).

 

Imola

Q 5 vs 19

S 9 vs 16

R DNF vs 14 (Alonso had his sidepod reworked at the start)

 

Miami

Q 11 vs DNQ (practice crash Ocon)

R 11 vs 8 (no excuses for Alonso there)

[Gareth]

It's the F3 and F2 championships in consecutive years. Last driver to do that (IIRC) was Charles Leclerc, who is alright. But the drivers you mention did all get F1 drives after winning in GP2. The excessive touting is because Piastri didn't. It's a bit like Mark Hughes was saying a couple of months ago though, the more Piastri doesn't race, the better he was.

 

For more dedicated F2 watchers than me though -- did you get a sense that Piastri was special while he was in F2? Or was it relatively weak competition? Because that is how junior formulae go. Lando Norris's second place in F2 was worth more than some people's championships.

I think it's no surprise that people were disappointed Piastri didn't move up. Zhou did, even though Piastri thrashed him in F2 (when Zhou was in his third season, Piastri in his first). Mazepin was in F1. It seems pretty undisputable that Piastri deserved a seat more than them on driving talent alone.

 

He looked pretty handy in F2. Any rookie champion is going to make you sit up and take notice. It might not have been the 2018 field, but it had a couple of veteran drivers expected to be very strong (having had good prior seasons) in Schwartzman, Zhou, and Lundgaard. Also some highly rated young guys in Vips, Ticktum, and Lawson. Predicting performance in F1 with any degree of certainty from lower formulae is a fool's errand, but Piastri certainly has potential and I'm surprised that no F1 team yet wants to explore that.

[RedRabbit]

Alonso seems keen to press on with it all.

Spanish Grand Prix: 'Welcome to my world, Lewis!' Fernando Alonso on life in F1 - BBC Sport

I am sure he is still keen, but that doesn't mean he isn't already looking at another team. Alpine very clearly have not delivered a potential winner or even podium contender, that falls apart more than any other car, and eats tires faster than a highway cop munches donuts.

He isn't going to blurt to the media that he's had "coffee" with anyone other than Alpine bosses.

[noikeee]

It's the F3 and F2 championships in consecutive years. Last driver to do that (IIRC) was Charles Leclerc, who is alright. But the drivers you mention did all get F1 drives after winning in GP2. The excessive touting is because Piastri didn't. It's a bit like Mark Hughes was saying a couple of months ago though, the more Piastri doesn't race, the better he was.

 

For more dedicated F2 watchers than me though -- did you get a sense that Piastri was special while he was in F2? Or was it relatively weak competition? Because that is how junior formulae go. Lando Norris's second place in F2 was worth more than some people's championships.

You can never really quite tell if the competition was strong or weak without a bit of hindsight. Give us 5 years to find out how all the other drivers of his generation developed... My feeling is it was a medium strenght field. Not the all time best but a couple promising kids to fight against, and not too many journeymen at the front, but again, ask me in 5 years.

 

As for Piastri himself. He wasn't really thought of as this massive prospect in his F3 year because it was a fairly unimpressive way to win it, often looking slower than his teammates, however he was very good in F2. He got lots of pole positions which is a strong indication of pace. And on hindsight perhaps the slightly unconvincing F3 year was because he was very young and unexperienced, after all the benchmarks for previous F3 titles like Leclerc and Russell, had experience at F3 level in the now extinct F3 Euroseries - Piastri didn't, he came from FRenault (2.0, now FREC). And even Leclerc and Russell, rewind back to that point in time and we weren't 100% sure on them neither - and that's because they were still very young kids still developing, just like Piastri was.

 

I'm not 100% sure he's superstar level quite yet, he doesn't quite have the "woah this guy will be MASSIVE no doubt about it" seal we had on guys like Lewis Hamilton or Max Verstappen, but there IS something impressive about him. I'll be surprised if he gets a proper go in F1 (by proper go I mean at least 2 seasons to get acquainted) and is a total flop. What he's achieved already, with the low level of experience and at how young he is, is impressive. He's clearly talented. Exactly how talented we can't tell just yet.

Edited by noikeee, 19 May 2022 - 10:02.

[SenorSjon]

Last year was a bit of a weird season with only 8 different tracks and skewed sprint/qualy format.

[eREr]

 

Miami

Q 11 vs DNQ (practice crash Ocon)

R 11 vs 8 (no excuses for Alonso there)

 

Alo had 2 penalties (thanks to himself), but Ocon won big time with the SC too. Ocon was not quicker in Miami.

[noikeee]

Last year was a bit of a weird season with only 8 different tracks and skewed sprint/qualy format.

Yep. It would've been very hard for anyone to appear dominant, with 2/3rds of the races having some sort of reverse grid...

[Ragamuffin]

Alpine would be foolish to show Alonso the door. He is a brutally honest character. When he needs to go, he'll know, and won't need to be pushed.

[dissident]

But who is making the comeback? Piastri's the one whose career stalled after winning the F2 championship.

My point is I prefer to see young blood entering the sport (as a spectator). And Alonso would probably find another seat should Alpine ditch him (or the other way around).

 

If I were Alpine, I'd most likely pick Alonso.

[garoidb]

My point is I prefer to see young blood entering the sport (as a spectator). And Alonso would probably find another seat should Alpine ditch him (or the other way around).

 

If I were Alpine, I'd most likely pick Alonso.

 

If they think Piastri is a future star, there is a lot of longer term value in bringing him in. The trick is to make sure to get a long contract. Alonso isn't going to go on for year after year so I can see why they would think longer term. If you only look at the immediate future, Alonso may bring better results next year but how much difference does that really make (unless it is bringing wins or some very prominent races). It is also easier to talk about long term projects without looking like you are letting someone down when the drivers are young. I agree that Alonso could pop up somewhere else that just needs high performance in the short term.

[Claymore25]

Piastri so Alonso's fans dissapear from twitter.

[naiboz]

How would Ocon and Piastri develop that car?

 

Unless Ocon was thrashing Alonso, it would be madness to drop him.

[noikeee]

The ideal solution for us would be for all 3 to find seats wouldn't it. They're all fairly good upper midfield F1 drivers, or have the potential to do so (at very least). So either Piastri driving for Alpine and Alonso moving to another team, or Piastri loaned out to another team.

 

It's hard to say, oh kick Alonso out that feels harsh, or oh don't give Piastri a chance that also feels very harsh. I think they're both firmly in the top 20 openwheel drivers in the world.

 

In Alpine's place I'd have no idea what to do tbh. Swapping Fernando for Oscar it's probably a short-term hit in performance, marketing, technical feedback. Keep him on the sidelines for another year you're ruining his career development and making him a weaker driver if you intend to employ him later on. Loan him to another team would be ideal, but they don't appear to have the money to pay for this (surely that's the only explanation why it's not been done already). It's complicated.

[DRSwing]

A world champion who is still quick, motivated and committed vs an unproven rookie. It’s a no brainer for me.

 

But why should it be Alonso vs Piastri for a seat in Alpine? If the Alpine management are looking for the best available driver for the team and also to give their rookie a chance, it should be Alonso and Piastri. The rookie would benefit from learning and driving alongside Alonso for a couple of years too.  IMO, they did the odd thing of giving Ocon a long contract prematurely and scored an own goal.

[IrvTheSwerve]

How would Ocon and Piastri develop that car?

 

Unless Ocon was thrashing Alonso, it would be madness to drop him.

 

Ocon's no spring chicken anymore, is he? Almost 100 starts since 2016. Not that I'm arguing that (of course) Alonso isn't more experienced. I don't think you can quite class Ocon as a 'young driver' any more though.

 

Personally, as much as Alonso has annoyed me at times down the years, I quite like holding on to old drivers for nostalgic reasons. Yes, I know that it can be a bit 'anti-competition' sometimes, but I like seeing drivers stick around for a long time. For that reason, I'd rather Alonso stay for a couple more years...but I would also like to see Piastri get an opportunity somewhere too.

[ARTGP]

The harsh and brutally honest thing to say is that it should be Alonso AND Piastri.  Ocon has not proven that he is capable of being Alonso's successor. The likes of his contemporaries like Leclerc and Verstappen and Norris are peaking right now. I'm just not seeing what I would have liked to see from Ocon in the last 2 years. Ocon should go before anyone considers even bothering Alonso and I say that as someone who has been supportive of Ocon. Them's the breaks but the calls for Alonso dropping are insanity and we all know it. 

 

Ocon played the contract games well. Clever lad lol. There were multiple threats to his seat at Alpine coming from Gasly, and Piastri. He has swatted them away with that contract he signed last year. 

Edited by ARTGP, 19 May 2022 - 13:54.

[DRSwing]

Miami

Q 11 vs DNQ (practice crash Ocon)

R 11 vs 8 (no excuses for Alonso there)

 

Alonso had a scruffy race in Miami, but even there he did a great start but was once again let down by the team with a very slow pitstop of over 5s when he was trying to undercut Gasly. Would have jumped Gasly and avoided the mistakes that followed with a half decent pitstop since the latter was less than 2s in front after emerging from his pitstop.

[Claudius]

Vandoorne didn't do well in F1 despite stellar results in lower formula. Taking Piastri will be a risk. 

[ARTGP]

Will Piastri get any Free practice time at Alpine before July?

[cbo]

Piastri so Alonso's fans dissapear from twitter.

Will not happen. Fans will argue whether replacing Alonso with Piastri was right until the sun burns out.

I'm convinced I will be dead and buried long before Hamilton's fans stop arguing about Abu Dhabi 2021.

[PlatenGlass]

I'm convinced I will be dead and buried long before Hamilton's fans stop arguing about Abu Dhabi 2021.

Don't think it's just Hamilton fans. Fans of rules consistently applied.

[ANF]

I want to see Piastri in F1 next year, so if there's no other way for him to get a competitive drive I hope Alonso will announce his retirement. Alpine won't be fighting for the championship in the near future anyway.

[Alfisti]

I am Australian and i'd keep Alonso in the car. One caveat though, this assumes they can find oscar another seat. He absolutely cannot sit out another year, he needs a seat and frankly deserves a seat. I keep coming back to Williams, can Alpine and Williams come to an agreement that works for both parties?

[PayasYouRace]

Piastri taking over Latifi’s spot at Williams sounds good to me. Albon would be a decent yardstick based on his current form.

[maximilian]

Alonso's return to F1 has been a monumental failure and yet another typical wrong career decision on his part.  Enough of that nonsense.  Get Piastri in that car ASAP.

[HeadFirst]

Without Alonso heading up the team, Alpine will be gone from F1 within 2 years. Prepare to welcome Andretti Autosports to F1.

[ARTGP]

Alonso's return to F1 has been a monumental failure and yet another typical wrong career decision on his part.  Enough of that nonsense.  Get Piastri in that car ASAP.

 

 

There's nonsense here alright....but it sure isn't Alonso's career.....

[SenorSjon]

Yep. It would've been very hard for anyone to appear dominant, with 2/3rds of the races having some sort of reverse grid...

 

It also makes DNFing in one sprint, making you start from the back in the next. So if you got hit in the first sprint, you are lost the next race as well. 

[r4mses]

Thing is that ALO seems to be not only constantly quicker than OCO this year, he is also the main reason why the team gets attention. 

 

OCO and PIA next year in a midfield car, I would be pretty worried from a marketing point of view.

 

Idd. If you're one of those new F1 fans who came here due to Netflix - allegedly there're billions of them... - do you care about a midfield team called Alpine and two pale drivers?

Edited by r4mses, 19 May 2022 - 15:02.

[Hans V]

What's the point of Alpine/Renault anyway? It's a mediocre stateowned F1 team run by corporate people and will never achieve anything apart from the odd podium. I do not see how F1 benefits Renault in any way. Alpine makes great litlle sportscars that noone buys and bleeds money. The best thing Renault can do is to offload it and focus on their core business, i.e. boring cars for boring people.  

[Clatter]

How would Ocon and Piastri develop that car?

Unless Ocon was thrashing Alonso, it would be madness to drop him.

What do you think the engineers are there for?

[IrvTheSwerve]

What do you think the engineers are there for?

 

Well Alonso needs to blame someone...