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Updated Aston Martin's resemblance to RB18 [split]


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#1 Rumblestrip

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 16:57

Thought there'd be more activity here, given we now appear to have a green RB on the grid.



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#2 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:04

At least AM own it. Complete frauds.

#3 TheWilliamzer

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:04

the return of Aston Martin Redbull Racing Team



#4 ARTGP

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:06

What evidence in the form of pictures is there for the new car? 



#5 GentlemanDriver091

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:10

What evidence in the form of pictures is there for the new car?

http://twitter.com/L...330658162335759

#6 ARTGP

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:10

Bz2hgtk.jpg



#7 Paa

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:11

When you order a Red Bull from Wish.



#8 Whitelightning

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:14

Protest incoming

#9 Rumblestrip

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:14

So, a totally different concept from before. Wonder how long it's going to take them to get on top of the set-up?



#10 Paa

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:15

Protest incoming

 

Who would protest and on what grounds?



#11 Topsu

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:16

Copying a whole car worked decently well, but I have some doubts that copying singular features will be as effective.



#12 Whitelightning

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:17

Who would protest and on what grounds?


Helmut Marko 😂 break in at the Redbull factory, blueprints stolen.

#13 Massa_f1

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:37

Are the staff members  Aston got from Red Bull allowed to work on the cars yet? because it certainly looks like it  :lol:



#14 Baddoer

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:38

Ah yes, back to an old concept of copy-car.



#15 GiorgioF1

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:41

Its a green Red Bull lmao. Stroll at it again.



#16 Disgrace

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:42

Copying a whole car worked decently well, but I have some doubts that copying singular features will be as effective.

 

Everyone eventually copied Red Bull's exhaust-blown diffuser. This team obviously has form but what they're doing isn't unusual. Haven't other teams already taken inspiration from their tea tray this year?



#17 search

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:43

any idea if they have two of them already? Earlier reports said it's only gonna be one for Stroll, but the AMuS updated from today sounded more like both will get the new parts.



#18 ColeTrickle44

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:53

Didn’t red bull claim Mercedes were complicit when force india turned up with a w10 clone.

#19 Disgrace

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 17:57

Didn’t red bull claim Mercedes were complicit when force india turned up with a w10 clone.

 

Fallow the money.



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#20 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:01

Thought there'd be more activity here, given we now appear to have a green RB on the grid.

At some point all the cars are going to converge and start looking the same..... 



#21 r4mses

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:06

F1 teams copying each other. In other news: water is wet.



#22 Clrnc

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:10

What the hell. Do they need to copy until even the lines are the same? lol



#23 SagemX

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:11

Wasn't there a rule introduced where all the teams had to submit CAD and technical details to the FIA for them to look where other teams themselves are allowed to look at those documents? Pretty much allows direct copying.



#24 Capeta

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:12

This is entierely different from the pink Mercedes story.
The problem at the time was that it was clear Racing Point bought blueprint from Mercedes, wich was illegal for some parts, and then said "We didn't bought ****, we made a copy based on our observations".
Renault & Ferrari were pressing the matters and as it was difficult to defend for both Racing Point and Mercedes, they let it run a season and then made the floor rules change for 2021 wich was kind of a FIA agreement in order to make everybody happy and to not go in court.

Today, we got a team trying to copy the best car of the field.
What will interest people is how well it will run with another engine/rear suspension, and if the new head of aero at Aston Martin, wich was the head of aero at Red Bull Racing have made anything illegal.
If not, and if AMF1 comply will all the rules, there is no problem here.

Aston Martin F1 and RBR aren't related in any ways, they aren't close like A team / B team, Aston Martin was a bit of a Mercedes B team but now try to not be that anymore.
Can't wait to see if it works, and if it does, how long it would take Mercedes to make something similar.



#25 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:18

This is entierely different from the pink Mercedes story.
The problem at the time was that it was clear Racing Point bought blueprint from Mercedes, wich was illegal for some parts, and then said "We didn't bought ****, we made a copy based on our observations".
Renault & Ferrari were pressing the matters and as it was difficult to defend for both Racing Point and Mercedes, they let it run a season and then made the floor rules change for 2021 wich was kind of a FIA agreement in order to make everybody happy and to not go in court.

Today, we got a team trying to copy the best car of the field.
What will interest people is how well it will run with another engine/rear suspension, and if the new head of aero at Aston Martin, wich was the head of aero at Red Bull Racing have made anything illegal.
If not, and if AMF1 comply will all the rules, there is no problem here.

Aston Martin F1 and RBR aren't related in any ways, they aren't close like A team / B team, Aston Martin was a bit of a Mercedes B team but now try to not be that anymore.
Can't wait to see if it works, and if it does, how long it would take Mercedes to make something similar.

Good question...



#26 Shell

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:23

So, can Aston Martin from this weekend to fight for the win..



#27 BoDarvelle

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:26

This is entierely different from the pink Mercedes story.
The problem at the time was that it was clear Racing Point bought blueprint from Mercedes, wich was illegal for some parts, and then said "We didn't bought ****, we made a copy based on our observations".
Renault & Ferrari were pressing the matters and as it was difficult to defend for both Racing Point and Mercedes, they let it run a season and then made the floor rules change for 2021 wich was kind of a FIA agreement in order to make everybody happy and to not go in court.

Today, we got a team trying to copy the best car of the field.
What will interest people is how well it will run with another engine/rear suspension, and if the new head of aero at Aston Martin, wich was the head of aero at Red Bull Racing have made anything illegal.
If not, and if AMF1 comply will all the rules, there is no problem here.

Aston Martin F1 and RBR aren't related in any ways, they aren't close like A team / B team, Aston Martin was a bit of a Mercedes B team but now try to not be that anymore.
Can't wait to see if it works, and if it does, how long it would take Mercedes to make something similar.

 

Look up photogrammetry. no need for blueprints



#28 Disgrace

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:40

So, can Aston Martin from this weekend to fight for the win..

 

The opposite could be true, they may not understand what appears to be a complete conceptual change. Expect lots of flow-vis...



#29 Capeta

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:45

Look up photogrammetry. no need for blueprints

Well, that's what Racing Point said.
And then, Renault pinned them against the wall with the brake duct stuff.
That was blueprint.



#30 Francesc

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:48

So, can Aston Martin from this weekend to fight for the win..


Wouldn't surprise me if they get knocked out in Q1. Thankfully F1 is not that simple that a copy works as good as the original.

#31 ARTGP

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:49

Wouldn't surprise me if they get knocked out in Q1. Thankfully F1 is not that simple that a copy works as good as the original.

 

Did you miss 2019? They scared everyone in pre-season testing with their long run pace and were bang on it from the word go. Drivers couldn't hide their smiles. 


Edited by ARTGP, 19 May 2022 - 18:50.


#32 Shell

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:50

Wouldn't surprise me if they get knocked out in Q1. Thankfully F1 is not that simple that a copy works as good as the original.


But still there are 50-50 chances to fight for pole or to fight for Q2

#33 F1 Mike

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:51

The fundamental issue with the team remains though. If they're having to copy other ideas it means they don't understand on their own which direction to go and why. For that reason they'll always be playing catch-up.

#34 BoDarvelle

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 18:57

Well, that's what Racing Point said.
And then, Renault pinned them against the wall with the brake duct stuff.
That was blueprint.

 

I do some CAD work. Show me some pictures of a brake duct and I can whip one up that will be very very close. Just need a known dimension of something in the pic. Doesn't have to be off the duct.

 

Copying has always gone on, however I do find the brazenness of RP/AM to be hilarious.



#35 Capeta

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 19:00

I do some CAD work. Show me some pictures of a brake duct and I can whip one up that will be very very close. Just need a known dimension of something in the pic. Doesn't have to be off the duct.

 

Copying has always gone on, however I do find the brazenness of RP/AM to be hilarious.

 

You should have a look a what happened in 2020 and how Renault/Ferrari proved to the FIA that some parts were never shown, so it was impossible to get the same exact design by guess.

As said previously, it's a different matter this time.



#36 Disgrace

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 19:01

I do some CAD work. Show me some pictures of a brake duct and I can whip one up that will be very very close. Just need a known dimension of something in the pic. Doesn't have to be off the duct.

 

Copying has always gone on, however I do find the brazenness of RP/AM to be hilarious.

 

The team were fined and deducted points for this, however. They were found guilty.



#37 Shell

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 19:07

Aston Martin will make others to tremble, starting tomorrow

#38 onewingedangel

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 19:14

Are Xerox a technical partner?

#39 Francesc

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 19:21

Did you miss 2019? They scared everyone in pre-season testing with their long run pace and were bang on it from the word go. Drivers couldn't hide their smiles.


They had all the CAD files and info directly from Mercedes. I doubt that's the case now, unless Fallows has taken them with him...

Edited by Francesc, 19 May 2022 - 20:20.


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#40 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 19:25

Did you miss 2019? They scared everyone in pre-season testing with their long run pace and were bang on it from the word go. Drivers couldn't hide their smiles. 

They scared people with pace, not with a picture.
Here this car hasn't turned a wheel yet on track.

I don't think copying is that easy, it's the whole concept of the car to get a whole system to work together.
Some stuff might work easier, other stuff you might never understand why it is the way it is and what interactions are there



#41 r4mses

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 19:54

Are Xerox a technical partner?

 

better don't trust your Xerox when you're copying technical data  :rotfl:


Edited by r4mses, 19 May 2022 - 20:00.


#42 Rjpscr

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 22:37

Can you imagine what the scenes will be if Aston Martin jumps to the top of the midfield with this update.  :lol:



#43 baddog

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 22:38

Wont be the last to try to copy rb, that thing is a monster



#44 ARTGP

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 22:54

Can you imagine what the scenes will be if Aston Martin jumps to the top of the midfield with this update.  :lol:

 

I would love that to be honest. Just for the shock value and paddock consternation  :rotfl: . This copy car drama is part of  F1's character. I love it. 

 

 

And besides, I've been saying for too long, this car is too pretty to be slow. 


Edited by ARTGP, 19 May 2022 - 22:56.


#45 Paa

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 23:10

If I remember correctly, AM is rated among one of the heaviest on the grid. Who knoww if it is improved with this upgrade or even got worse.

Even if the outside copy is 100% perfect (which it is not), probably they could not copy the internal aero, plus the mechanical things, engine, cooling etc and little touches here and there are all missing. Not to mention they'll have no idea how to properly set up the car. +weaker driving pair.

 

With all these, they could be easily 1-1.5s off of RB'S pace. 



#46 Nobody

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Posted 19 May 2022 - 23:58

the infamous Racing Point camera is back in action

#47 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 20 May 2022 - 00:02

If I remember correctly, AM is rated among one of the heaviest on the grid. 

Makes sense they copied the RedBull aero then. :))



#48 romaincrouton

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Posted 20 May 2022 - 01:03

Can I get one in silver? ... Asking for a friend.

#49 ClubmanGT

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Posted 20 May 2022 - 04:00

If I remember correctly, AM is rated among one of the heaviest on the grid. Who knoww if it is improved with this upgrade or even got worse.

Even if the outside copy is 100% perfect (which it is not), probably they could not copy the internal aero, plus the mechanical things, engine, cooling etc and little touches here and there are all missing. Not to mention they'll have no idea how to properly set up the car. +weaker driving pair.

 

With all these, they could be easily 1-1.5s off of RB'S pace. 

 

Depends, if they have given themselves more tolerances elsewhere, they may be able to push in ways that Red Bull can't. Same rollerskate, different shoes. 

 

I can't tell you how funny this is, there's a chance I will watch the whole weekend now instead of writing it off as a tedious bore. 



#50 Shell

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Posted 20 May 2022 - 05:01

The old car looked so beautiful...now it looks strange. If they dont gain anything from this, they should go back