71 replies to this topic

[john aston]

Thank you John. Very kind! It's an honour to be listed in such company. I'd also add James Page's work on Hesketh and Doug Nye's just-published, stunning "The Last Eyewitness" to your list. The latter should scoop some awards next year!

You are absolutely right about the Hesketh book - and it's less than  two weeks since I was listening to him ... Last Eyewitness is outside my area really but the copy I saw looked good. 

[ReWind]

I'm just reading Jon's fine book.

 

But when I arrived on pages 121/122 I had to scratch my head.

 

Race # 99 is the F2 "Motor Show 200" race at Brands Hatch on 30 October 1966.

Race # 101 is the Kyalami 9 Hours race on 5 November 1966.

 

Between them race # 100 is the "Motor Show 200" touring car race at Brands Hatch on 28 October 1965, described as Ickx's "first visit to the track".

[Before the 1966 "Motor Show 200" he raced at Brands Hatch on 16 July 1966 (races # 82, 83), on 29 August 1966 (race # 89) and on 2 October 1966 (race # 96).]

 

Shouldn't that race in fact be the follow-up to race # 60 on page 89? Becoming Ickx's last outing in the 1965 season? But a race in England on a Thursday?

 

Like I said, I have to scratch my head.

 

 

[Collombin]

Jon, shall I explain this one?

In the final draft the race appeared in the 1965 chapter as race #61 I think, all seemingly in order.

However, I smelt a rat, eg Arundell in a Lotus in 1965? Clark racing midweek at Brands between two weekends in N America? Etc.

So a bit of digging led to the correct race date of 30th October 1966, and I duly informed the publishers.

I can only presume the fire alarm went off in Evro Towers mid-correction, because although they moved the race to its correct position for its true date (and now renumbered as #100), none of the supporting text had been updated - either the erroneous 1965 race date, or the knock-on effect on the narrative (which was of course fine for 1965, but didn't fit 1966 at all).

Yes, I did kick the cat.

Edited by Collombin, 25 October 2024 - 18:08.

[SamoanAttorney]

Jon, shall I explain this one?

In the final draft the race appeared in the 1965 chapter as race #61 I think, all seemingly in order.

However, I smelt a rat, eg Arundell in a Lotus in 1965? Clark racing midweek at Brands between two weekends in N America? Etc.

So a bit of digging led to the correct race date of 30th October 1966, and I duly informed the publishers.

I can only presume the fire alarm went off in Evro Towers mid-correction, because although they moved the race to its correct position for its true date (and now renumbered as #100), none of the supporting text had been updated - either the erroneous 1965 race date, or the knock-on effect on the narrative (which was of course fine for 1965, but didn't fit 1966 at all).

Yes, I did kick the cat.

 

 

Even Mark Hughes nods.....

[Collombin]

Even Mark Hughes nods.....

A top chap, and in fairness I think it was a one-off, and whilst working to a pretty tight schedule.

[SamoanAttorney]

A top chap, and in fairness I think it was a one-off, and whilst working to a pretty tight schedule.

 

 

 

Mark is the best, I have had the privilege of working with him on a few projects and, by example, he taught me a great deal. 

[ReWind]

[...] its true date [...] none of the supporting text had been updated

So, can we have the updated narrative, please?
I would print it and put a sheet with the correct date and the correct text into the book.

[ReWind]

On page 334 Jon writes about Jacky Ickx after the 1973 Italian GP:

... he politely declined Enzo Ferrari’s invitation to stay for another season.

 

If Ickx had accepted this offer he probably would have added to his tally of eight Grand Prix wins and maybe even won the World Championship in 1974 or later.

 

But what would the 1974 Formula 1 grid have looked like with Ickx at Ferrari instead of Lotus?

 

His teammate would have been Lauda who had signed a contract with Ferrari already before the 1973 Italian GP.

 

That leaves the question what would have happened to Clay Regazzoni.

 

And who would have been the number two driver at Lotus?

 

Which other teams would have been affected?

 

[rl1856]

On page 334 Jon writes about Jacky Ickx after the 1973 Italian GP:

 

If Ickx had accepted this offer he probably would have added to his tally of eight Grand Prix wins and maybe even won the World Championship in 1974 or later.

 

But what would the 1974 Formula 1 grid have looked like with Ickx at Ferrari instead of Lotus?

 

His teammate would have been Lauda who had signed a contract with Ferrari already before the 1973 Italian GP.

 

That leaves the question what would have happened to Clay Regazzoni.

 

And who would have been the number two driver at Lotus?

 

Which other teams would have been affected?

 

Are you sure about Regga and Lauda ?   Wasn't Regga signed first and then convinced Ferrari to take on Lauda ?    If this is correct it is fair to ask if Ferrari and Ickx/Regga would have developed the B3 to the level that Lauda was able to achieve ?   

 

As for Ickx, we know he went to Lotus.  Did he endure the Lotus #2 treatment, or had he simply lost a step so to speak, given his relative performance by mid season ?

[Jon Saltinstall]

Just speak to any of the Lotus mechanics who were there in 1974. There's little question that Jacky did indeed "endure the Lotus #2 treatment", as you put it!

[ReWind]

Wasn't Regga signed first and then convinced Ferrari to take on Lauda ?

I don't know whether Regazzoni was signed by Ferrari before or after Lauda.

 

In his book "Protokoll" (p. 17, 18) Lauda wrote that after the Austrian GP Luca di Montezemolo took him to Maranello and Fiorano where Lauda met Enzo Ferrari. Lauda agreed to drive for Ferrari and signed a contract.

His compatriot Heinz Prüller wrote in his annual "Grand Prix Story 74" (p. 21) that Peter Revson was intended as Lauda's partner. But then it became Regazzoni.

 

If Regazzoni was indeed engaged by Ferrari before Lauda it would mean that the offer to Ickx after the Italian GP was either a ruse or Ferrari was willing to set up a three-car-team.

 

Maybe someone is able to look into magazines from summer/fall 1973 to find out WHEN Ferrari announced its drivers for 1974.

[Parkesi]

"Piloti, che gente..." - in his ambiguous style Enzo Ferrari (aka Dottore Gozzi?) wrote:

It was he (Regazzoni) who encouraged me in my choice of the racer (Lauda) I had been considering since the 1973 English Grand Prix to fill a gap in the team for the 1974 season.

Gozzi himself "Memoirs of Enzo Ferrari`s lieutenant": In Niki Lauda`s case there is no doubt: the talent scout was Clay Regazzoni in 1973, when he was in England with BRM.

"There is a youngster with me who`s not well known but seems good", he told Enzo Ferrari during a visit to Fiorano, "and I think he could do very well at Ferrari".

 

I presume Regazzoni recommended Lauda only AFTER his own seat in the team was secure

[ReWind]

Maybe someone is able to look into magazines from summer/fall 1973 to find out WHEN Ferrari announced its drivers for 1974.

Hello out there! This IS nostalgia stuff. It was more than fifty years ago.

[B Squared]

Hello to you too. My excuse is I haven't had the extra time to get into the archives that might have that information.

Edit: A quick online search shows at F1 wiki and Speedhunters that Regazzoni recommended Lauda to Mr. Ferrari and others within the team. I'm not sure how reliable these sources are, but it is multiple, so it makes me think Clay was signed first. I see nothing about the signing dates in my F1 annuals.

I also have Road & Track, Car and Driver, and Autoweek I can look through, but that will take longer to get to.

Edited by B Squared, 21 November 2024 - 12:15.

[Vitesse2]

La Stampa announced both Regazzoni and Lauda as Ferrari drivers in its issue of October 9th 1973.

 

On July 2nd they had speculated that Regazzoni would be joining Ferrari, and again on July 31st, suggesting that he would be paired with Reutemann, but the only other reference I can see to Clay joining is on October 6th.

[B Squared]

Hello out there! This IS nostalgia stuff. It was more than fifty years ago.

Vitesse, I'm not sure why you and I even bothered. When an individual crys for information and can't acknowledge it, why bother?

[Jon Saltinstall]

So, can we have the updated narrative, please?
I would print it and put a sheet with the correct date and the correct text into the book.

 

 

Apologies for the "missed message" here!!

 

I have been caught up with some family stuff. I will produce a piece of corrected narrative in the next few days and post it her.

 

And as has been discussed, it's one of those occasional irritations that slipped through between editing and print. We're all human! More my fault than Mark's, I would say...

[Collombin]

To put this in perspective, if that was the only finding that did not get properly corrected or amended then that's still a success rate of 99.87%! None too shabby surely?

One is reminded of the Vince Lombardi quote about perfection being unattainable, but that in striving to reach it you may at least catch excellence...

[ReWind]

Vitesse, I'm not sure why you and I even bothered. When an individual crys for information and can't acknowledge it, why bother?

Jon needed nearly four weeks to react to a post of mine. (No problem for me, I hasten to say.)

What would you say to him, Brian? (You should be ashamed of yourself because of your rash derogatory remark. I'll give your earlier post a belated like, though.)

[B Squared]

When you put a request in bold letters, someone gets you the answer, there is evidence you have been in the thread since then, I don't think a thank you is that big of an ask.

[Jon Saltinstall]

So, can we have the updated narrative, please?
I would print it and put a sheet with the correct date and the correct text into the book.

 

Corrected narrative as promised. Apologies for the original error and the delay in responding.

 

 

100 International Motor Show 200 (GB) 

Brands Hatch, 30 October 1966, Group 2
Ford Lotus Cortina (KPU 396C) • #52

Qualifying: 13th • Result: Heat 1, DNF (accident); Heat 2, DNS 

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Courtesy of Team Lotus, Jacky had another touring car outing at this season-ending Brands Hatch meeting, albeit in one of last year’s Cortinas that had been updated with leaf-spring rear suspension. Ickx qualified poorly while his team-mates Jim Clark — still Formula 1’s biggest star despite having been recently deposed as World Champion — and Peter Arundell lined up first and third on the grid. However, Jacky was impressed by the generosity shown to him by Clark, who led him round for several laps to help him learn the best racing lines. 

In the event, Clark’s assistance was of little consequence. Although Ickx made a good start and was recovering from his lowly grid position, he crashed after just two laps of the first 10-lap heat. The car was too damaged to take part in the second heat, so he was unclassified on aggregate. 

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 26 November 2024 - 12:08.

[ReWind]

Before the self-appointed warden of good manners from the USofA, of all places, feels entitled to make demands:

Thank you very much, Jon.
Much appreciated.