1184 replies to this topic

[loki]

Technology doesn’t drive motorsport viewer numbers in the US.  Personalities do.

[Peat]

Wasn't the Indiana TV blackout re-instated this year?

[paulb]

Wasn't the Indiana TV blackout re-instated this year?

Why have a blackout? I can’t see a local wanting to watch a race on the tube over experiencing it in person. Unless I underestimate the Hoosier love of commercials.

Edited by paulb, 03 June 2022 - 08:54.

[Jim Thurman]

Apologies for the delay in replying to this. I wasn't ducking it, just limited time and a bit under the weather...

The degree of surprise depends on the day you count the odds. Neither Arie nor Buddy Rice would have been surprise picks on the raceday morning. But you weren't gonna pick them on May 1st yet...

 

True, I don't recall picking Arie heading into the month, I'm not that good!  , but from daily reports, weekly racing shows on cable and, IIRC, an early year (first?) of ESPN having daily on-air reports, Luyendyk looked so smooth all month, and that was what I went by. True, a lot can go wrong (bad pit stops, getting caught up in someone else's crash/mistake), and I can see how he got overlooked in the Andretti/Penske favorite outlook, but Luyendyk was on rails all month. I picked him well before race day.

 

I certainly didn't pick Rice, not even on race morning, but it wasn't that big a surprise afterwards. My comments on "favorites" came from newspapers of the day. Usually race day, but sometimes during the month, or even leading up to. It seemed every driver, even back in the 1930s, came up as favorites ahead of time. Even George Robson, who had an undistinguished record earlier, was in a car that was considered an outstanding car that was looked to be a favorite to win. Others built on their qualifying to rank as favorites ahead of time.

 

Respectfully, I beg to differ there - for Alex Rossi exists.

 

On May 1st, you wouldn't have been *that* surprised to hear he'd be the winner at the end of the month -- after all, Rossi did have an Andretti, and rookies such as Munoz and Marco A. had previously had good runs with them. However, Alex struggled in practice, found decent speed but then qualified 11th, unremarkable for an Andretti driver. Thus, ahead of the race, very few fans or experts would have picked him as one of their first 10 favorites to win...quick googling confirms that bookies were holding him as maybe 15th or 20th favourite for the race, too. 

 

So, by my reckonings - you have to count either Rossi, or Luyendyk (and possibly Rice) as a surprise winner. Depending on which way you count surprises, of course... but one or the other.

 

Rossi might be a dark horse lower case, but being with Andretti lessened that considerably. Meh, bookies, what do they know? 

 

Nope, I don't count Rossi, Luyendyk or Rice as true surprises. But, that's just me  (I don't consider Villanova beating Georgetown for the college basketball title to have been that big an "upset" either, despite an Eastern U.S. media that wishes it to be  ) This plays to my comment about modernism. Everyone wants their time to feature something spectacular, a "best", something truly unique. Viewing it dispassionately, it's just not the case. Look, if the last real surprise winner of the '500' came when my Grandfather was a young man, I can deal with it 

Edited by Jim Thurman, 03 June 2022 - 17:08.

[Muppetmad]

Hoping you feel better soon, Jim!

[Risil]

Hope you start to feel better soon Jim.

Something I've felt that's characterized the Indy 500 for a very long time is the openness of the competition. If there are few surprise winners, it's because there have rarely been fewer than half a dozen plausible winners on race day, and often many more.

I suppose you don't have the phenomenon of a mid-race rain shower that's responsible for almost all of F1's surprise results, too.

[FLB]

Get well soon, Jim!

[paulb]

Get above that weather, Jim!

[Henri Greuter]

Apologies for the delay in replying to this. I wasn't ducking it, just limited time and a bit under the weather...

 

True, I don't recall picking Arie heading into the month, I'm not that good!  , but from daily reports, weekly racing shows on cable and, IIRC, an early year (first?) of ESPN having daily on-air reports, Luyendyk looked so smooth all month, and that was what I went by. True, a lot can go wrong (bad pit stops, getting caught up in someone else's crash/mistake), and I can see how he got overlooked in the Andretti/Penske favorite outlook, but Luyendyk was on rails all month. I picked him well before race day.

 

 

Beat the weather Jim!

 

And once again, maybe it is also because I am biased due to my nationality. But I saw the best past of practice  in May 1990 and what you wrote about Arie was correct. That second week of practice he had his hands full with two jobs: first optimizing the car for qualifying because he was one of 11 drivers still left in the guaranteed qualifying line eligible for pole. Secondly he had to work on finding the race day setup too within those days. But he came through all that with flying colors as we eventually found out.

Edited by Henri Greuter, 03 June 2022 - 19:32.

[noriaki]

Apologies for the delay in replying to this. I wasn't ducking it, just limited time and a bit under the weather...

 

True, I don't recall picking Arie heading into the month, I'm not that good!  , but from daily reports, weekly racing shows on cable and, IIRC, an early year (first?) of ESPN having daily on-air reports, Luyendyk looked so smooth all month, and that was what I went by. True, a lot can go wrong (bad pit stops, getting caught up in someone else's crash/mistake), and I can see how he got overlooked in the Andretti/Penske favorite outlook, but Luyendyk was on rails all month. I picked him well before race day.

 

I certainly didn't pick Rice, not even on race morning, but it wasn't that big a surprise afterwards. My comments on "favorites" came from newspapers of the day. Usually race day, but sometimes during the month, or even leading up to. It seemed every driver, even back in the 1930s, came up as favorites ahead of time. Even George Robson, who had an undistinguished record earlier, was in a car that was considered an outstanding car that was looked to be a favorite to win. Others built on their qualifying to rank as favorites ahead of time.

 

 

Rossi might be a dark horse lower case, but being with Andretti lessened that considerably. Meh, bookies, what do they know? 

 

Nope, I don't count Rossi, Luyendyk or Rice as true surprises. But, that's just me  (I don't consider Villanova beating Georgetown for the college basketball title to have been that big an "upset" either, despite an Eastern U.S. media that wishes it to be  ) This plays to my comment about modernism. Everyone wants their time to feature something spectacular, a "best", something truly unique. Viewing it dispassionately, it's just not the case. Look, if the last real surprise winner of the '500' came when my Grandfather was a young man, I can deal with it 

 

Thanks for the response - and while I maintain my stance, yes I can definitely live with your view Rossi's victory not an upset. I guess it mostly comes down to us two having a slightly different definition of the word. And as you mention, he was an Andretti driver, so I will concede it was not much of a shock. 

 

However, if you bear with me to reiterate my view once more - I'm sure 2016 was at least different from any other victory! As you mention, most other post-1920s 500 winners came up as favorites ahead of time (at least those I am confident of my knowledge to discuss, so from the 80s on). 

 

Generally, there are three main reasons why a driver comes up as a favorite before the race. People talk about drivers, when they have been either:

a) Competitive in Indycar at the time of their victory (most drivers who won the 500, including Ericsson)

b) Competitive at Indianapolis before (that covers your Helio 2021's, Sato 2017's, Wheldon 2011's and Al Unser sr's 1987's, et al.)

c) As you mention - having a stand-out Month of May that year (Luyendyk, Rice, and perhaps a couple of other winners - and if it was unclear, I will certainly agree with you they were not surprises)

 

Can you name any other post-war winner than Rossi who didn't tick any of these boxes at the time of their victory?

 

Ahead of the 2016 race, he was merely a name on the long list of drivers who had a decent car, so you wouldn't have viewed his victory as impossible - but none of the three things above made him stand out. Unlike every other post-1920s winner, there weren't things to pick up on that made you suspect he might be about to do something special that year. Which is why I don't think anybody was specifically talking about him ahead of the race, either. Remember that even his main sponsor, NAPA, was very much a last-minute deal (pretty sure Rossi started practice in a whole different livery than the winning one), and they only extended the one-race contract after Alex's victory. 

 

I also suspect that played a little part in why many people were initially somewhat dismissive of his victory and considered it a lucky one. Had it been a favorite like Dixon, Pagenaud or Montoya doing the same, I suppose people would have been more appreciative of the effort right away. But in Alex's case it was only in retrospect, after all the stories came up, after we got to know how he made the fuel numbers - and in longer term, after Alex became a regular front-runner in the series - that people truly understood, that what he did in that race to pull his strategy off wasn't simply down to blind luck, but a great achievement for any driver - let alone a rookie. 

 

But anyway, this is all, and again, I'll happily agree to disagree if you so choose. 

 

And of course - Get well soon, Jim!

Edited by noriaki, 03 June 2022 - 20:31.

[Muppetmad]

I can't remember what race it was (or even what year), but there was one oval where Rossi made the most outrageous fuel milage while maintaining a competitive pace. It was only in that race that I truly appreciated what a sublime job he'd done at Indy in 2016.

[Collombin]

Can you name any other post-war winner than Rossi who didn't tick any of these boxes at the time of their victory?

Gram Hill?

[noriaki]

Gram Hill?

Suppose I forgot to list a tiny 4th category of drivers often suggested as favorites pre-race - "drivers who already are World Champions upon first arrival in Indy"!

[Collombin]

Suppose I forgot to list a tiny 4th category of drivers often suggested as favorites pre-race - "drivers who already are World Champions upon first arrival in Indy"!

The earlier Indy yearbooks often used to show the pre-race betting odds which helped to give a good feel who the favourites were, but the 1966 edition is imo the worst of the lot and from memory does not. I don't sense Hill got much traction as a pre-race favourite though. I think he only got the drive after Walt Hansgen had been killed at Le Mans.

[Dmitriy_Guller]

Suppose I forgot to list a tiny 4th category of drivers often suggested as favorites pre-race - "drivers who already are World Champions upon first arrival in Indy"!

Regardless of whether the status of being a World Champion should earn you an automatic assumption that it'll translate to Indy 500 competitiveness, was there a more underwhelming winner than Graham Hill in the history of the race?  If you trust contemporary accounts, Hill just sort of wound up classified 1st due to no fault of his own.

[red stick]

Hope you're feeling better, Jim!

[Collombin]

was there a more underwhelming winner than Graham Hill in the history of the race? If you trust contemporary accounts, Hill just sort of wound up classified 1st due to no fault of his own.

Well I suppose you would have to nominate someone like Floyd Davis for that dubious honour, but I know what you mean - I've lost count of how many other drivers are claimed as moral winners that day! On the other hand, Hill was the legitimate winner in what was probably the 2nd strongest Indy field of all time.

[jonpollak]

Oh shit… what’s wrong with Jim ?
Why are you all going ‘thoughts and prayers’ on him?
Jp

[red stick]

He mentioned he'd been ill.  Think of it as a group hug.  

[red stick]

Or at least polite well-wishing.

[DN5]

Wasn't the Indiana TV blackout re-instated this year?

That expains things for me: I was out downtown after the race and couldn't understand why the Indy 500 was on the TV.

 

The local NBC station showed the Monday reception - it was nice to see drivers talking in a relaxed setting - Conar Daly has certainly gone up in my estimation (visiting the snake pit)

[Mohican]

Some of you guys are really mean-spirited and miserable; why not accept that Ericsson won Indy fair and square ? Give credit where credit is due

Why the hell try to cast doubts on his sponsor ? And so what if he has personal backers ? So do many other drivers.

Ericsson was by far the fastest driver/car combo in the last 20 laps, and it’s hardly his fault that Dixon threw away the race win by speeding in the pits.

[Jim Thurman]

Wow, thanks to all that have sent along well wishes    I won't lie and say it was nothing, or nothing more than a bad cold, because it most assuredly was not. But, the news is the best possible, so...there's that. Barring something else popping up, you're stuck with me for a while 

 

I'm really embarrassed by all of this  , and I'm kind of sorry I even mentioned it. Next time, I'll just say I was busy or tired and leave it at that 

[Jim Thurman]

noriaki, you make a great case for Rossi.

 

Keep in mind, the most important factor. Rossi raced in F1 so he was supposed to win* 

 

*we'll just conveniently overlook Rubens Barrichello and others

[Myrvold]

Some of you guys are really mean-spirited and miserable; why not accept that Ericsson won Indy fair and square ? Give credit where credit is due

Why the hell try to cast doubts on his sponsor ? And so what if he has personal backers ? So do many other drivers.

Ericsson was by far the fastest driver/car combo in the last 20 laps, and it’s hardly his fault that Dixon threw away the race win by speeding in the pits.

 
I'll bite this time, as no-one did when you posted similar 5 days ago. Let's see if it's possible to find some positive posts. (only looked from race finish and on)
 

[quote name="STRFerrari4Ever" post="9914903" timestamp="1653853483"]
Ericsson bravo
[/quote]
[quote name="w1Y" post="9914907" timestamp="1653853502"]
Epic from Ericsson there
[/quote]
[quote name="ArchieTech" post="9914909" timestamp="1653853504"]
Ericsson earned that victory! Such intense last laps.
[/quote]
[quote name="SophieB" post="9914917" timestamp="1653853529"]
What a stunning finish, pleased for him being able to hang on.
[/quote]
[quote name="Spillage" post="9914919" timestamp="1653853534"]
ERICSSONNNNNNNNNNNNNNN
[/quote]
[quote name="djparky" post="9914922" timestamp="1653853544"]
Well done Marcus
[/quote]
[quote name="Lotus72b" post="9914923" timestamp="1653853546"]
Congratulations Marcus Ericsson  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:  :clap:
[/quote]
[quote name="danmills" post="9914925" timestamp="1653853547"]
Brilliant! Well done Ericsson.
[/quote]
[quote name="Sash1" post="9914931" timestamp="1653853564"]
Good karma
[/quote]
[quote name="LB" post="9914932" timestamp="1653853568"]
Good he deserved that
[/quote]
[quote name="Coral" post="9914934" timestamp="1653853581"]
Awww I really wanted the Arrow-McLaren to do it, but Ericsson did so well!
[/quote]
[quote name="thegamer23" post="9914936" timestamp="1653853586"]
[size=5][color=#0000cd][b]MARCUS ERICSSON[/b][/color] WINS THE INDY500!!  :clap:  :clap:  :clap: [/size]
[size=5][size=4]What a story[/size][/size]
[/quote]
[quote name="Ali623" post="9914937" timestamp="1653853587"]
Fully deserved
[/quote]
[quote name="Lipp" post="9914939" timestamp="1653853588"]
Great Win by Ercisson!
[/quote]
[quote name="MKSixer" post="9914941" timestamp="1653853595"]
Great job in hanging on Marcus.  Wonderful touch to have a tribute to Ronnie Peterson on his helmet.  Absolutely lovely.
[/quote]
[quote name="Amz964" post="9914947" timestamp="1653853608"]
Yes Marcus!!!!
[/quote]
[quote name="SpaceHorseParty" post="9914949" timestamp="1653853610"]
ERICSSON!
[/quote]
[quote name="ezequiel" post="9914953" timestamp="1653853621"]
Wonderful Ericsson, well deserved
[/quote]
[quote name="juicy sushi" post="9914955" timestamp="1653853637"]
A worthy winner, and heartbreak for Pato.
[/quote]
[quote name="Ben1445" post="9914961" timestamp="1653853654"]
Deserved win.

Will enjoy watching these celebrations
[/quote]
[quote name="Forghieri" post="9914963" timestamp="1653853659"]
Congratulations Marcus Ericsson!
[/quote]
[quote name="Spillage" post="9914970" timestamp="1653853674"]
Ericsson always was a good driver, did well against all of his teammates until Leclerc ame along. Very happy for him, he deserves some success. And he leaves the championship!
[/quote]
[quote name="Richard T" post="9914972" timestamp="1653853686"]
Marcus!!!!!
[/quote]
[quote name="paulb" post="9914985" timestamp="1653853738"]
Great job by Ericsson.
 
Stupid IMS podium time.
[/quote]
[quote name="stewie" post="9914992" timestamp="1653853802"]
Yep, he hung around the top 5 pretty much the whole race. But then he's been up there all through practice and qualifying too!
[/quote]
[quote name="Ben1445" post="9915002" timestamp="1653853842"]
Really feel like Ericsson has worked hard for this. He absolutely knows what it means.
[/quote]
[quote name="Laniakea" post="9915023" timestamp="1653853979"]
Well done Ericsson and well played at the restart and congrats with the ring..even Johnny Depp would will envy that finger bling..
[/quote]
[quote name="F1 Mike" post="9915032" timestamp="1653854037"]
Was a good battle at the end. Marcus deserved that win with the fierce defending, he was away and gone before the red
[/quote]
[quote name="TomNokoe" post="9915030" timestamp="1653854026"]
Not many of the current crop would have the versatility to win the 500!
[/quote]
[quote name="Disgrace" post="9915034" timestamp="1653854052"]
Yeah, I like Ericsson and defended his stint in F1 at the time. He's a good driver, driving for Ganassi thoroughly on merit.
[/quote]
[quote name="messy" post="9915038" timestamp="1653854089"]
Ericsson has grown on me since he started Indycar, he’s doing a hell of a good job there in truth. I wanted Rosenqvist to win, but I’m ok with that, he’d earned it before the red flag and drove in a way that said “no way are you b*starts beating me here” on the restart. Fair play.
[/quote]
[quote name="thegamer23" post="9915041" timestamp="1653854105"]
Emotional Ericsson!

Totally deserved the win, he was building up a huge gap before that red.
And kept the pedal down in that final side by side with O'Ward.
 
[img=https://i.postimg.cc/QxsXvjf2/trasferimento.jpg]
[/quote]
[quote name="Mart280" post="9915042" timestamp="1653854107"]
Fair play Marcus, well done.
[/quote]
[quote name="Ali_G" post="9915054" timestamp="1653854190"]
Delighted for Ericsson. I’m a big Pato fan and his day will come.
[/quote]
[quote name="ensign14" post="9915058" timestamp="1653854207"]
Ericsson deserved that for dealing with the most monumental pressure you can get in motor racing. Five laps from victory, in the groove, just being it home…then you have to stop for half an hour because idiot team-mate crashes apropos of nothing. And then everyone is right up your jaxie with the gaps all wiped out. And everything, including you, is cold. Five miles to justify your entire career, a lifetime of racing distilled to those five miles. Voom.
[/quote]
[quote name="Muppetmad" post="9915082" timestamp="1653854408"]
I'm delighted for Ericsson  :up: He's been there or thereabouts in the past few years, and sustained the pressure here.
 
I feel for Palou especially (since what happened wasn't his fault), but Dixon too (it was a small mistake with big consequences).
[/quote]
[quote name="JG" post="9915324" timestamp="1653858759"]
I am so happy! Great day.
[/quote]
[quote name="Clrnc" post="9915349" timestamp="1653859410"]
Ericsson had a perfect day. Well deserved. Haven't seen someone so comfortable at the end for awhile now
[/quote]
[quote name="GenJackRipper" post="9916161" timestamp="1653911279"]
As a swede it warms my heart seeing Marcus winning it and I hope all the haters feel bad today.
[/quote]
[quote name="HeadFirst" post="9917026" timestamp="1653963970"]
My 2 cents ..... it was a great race, with a very deserving winner. I enjoyed it alot. :clap:
[/quote]

 
Phew. Then to the ones I personally feel are praising and/or positive towards Ericsson, or not really mentioning him at all. However if one choose to look at it the most negative, bad way possible, you may be able to deem the post negative/anti-Ericsson in some way I guess. 
 

[quote name="billm99uk" post="9914956" timestamp="1653853638"]
Well he looked pretty quick all day. Though I still think Scotty threw that one away at the end of the day.
 
does Marcus get chocolate milk btw?
[/quote]
[quote name="Disgrace" post="9914910" timestamp="1653853506"]
Not sure about that weaving, but he nailed the restart and he deserves it. Nice one.
[/quote]
[quote name="Jellyfishcake" post="9914948" timestamp="1653853609"]
Not a fan of Ericsson, but fair play hanging onto that at the end
 
The weaving is crazy, but they all do it.
 
Probably for the best he didn't lose it at the end, he was comfortably clear when the red came out.
[/quote]
[quote name="LolaB0860" post="9914946" timestamp="1653853606"]
Wtf that weaving?
[/quote]
[quote name="Frood" post="9914950" timestamp="1653853612"]
O'Ward tried, so credit to him. Congrats to Marcus!
[/quote]
[quote name="Ellios" post="9914951" timestamp="1653853616"]
Marcus [font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Ericsson - wow ! just wow !  :up:[/size][/font][font=Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] [/size][/font]
[/quote]
[quote name="Izzyeviel" post="9914958" timestamp="1653853641"]
Marcus Ericsson. Indy 500 Winner. Did you ever think such words would be spoketh?
[/quote]
[quote name="Dmitriy_Guller" post="9914969" timestamp="1653853673"]
Marcus deserved the win, but I have to say that this weaving should not be allowed.  This isn't breaking a tow, this is "try to get alongside me and you're flying into the grandstand" weaving.
[/quote]
[quote name="Coral" post="9914974" timestamp="1653853696"]
That was entertaining, can't believe Marcus Ericsson just won the Indy 500! :eek:
[/quote]
[quote name="ANF" post="9914988" timestamp="1653853763"]
That was a great win. Ericsson was P4 or P5 all race, wasn't he?
[/quote]
[quote name="thegamer23" post="9915012" timestamp="1653853885"]
Harsh
He wasn't great at the beginning, but he became rock solid in his later years.
And actually held up ok against Leclerc in 2017 in quite some races.
[/quote]
[quote name="Astandahl" post="9915018" timestamp="1653853945"]
He has never been one of the worst drivers of the last 10 years.
[/quote]
[quote name="absinthedude" post="9915044" timestamp="1653854109"]
Marcus was there or thereabouts for the entire race. Definitely the drive of his career. Good call from the race director to bring out the red flag and guarantee a couple of green laps. 
 
From a decent journeyman in F1 to a top IndyCar driver. I'm now wondering if he'd enjoy more success if he returned to F1. He was never bad, but didn't look to set the world on fire. I've been impressed with his IndyCar drives last year and this. 
 
Congrats. Totally deserved it today. If this is his day of days, and if he never rises to this form again, he still deserves it. Drove out of his skin today.
[/quote]
[quote name="juicy sushi" post="9915051" timestamp="1653854176"]
As we are learning in F1 this year, certain drivers respond better to certain kinds of cars. The contemporary Indycar definitely is much more Marcus’ jam than the F1 cars he drove. And he has grown as a driver, which is something many people ignore.
[/quote]
[quote name="Ali623" post="9915057" timestamp="1653854201"]
He was never that terrible in F1 (compared to others anyway), I'm sure he would have been fine in decent cars - clearly proving as much in Indycar
[/quote]
[quote name="danmills" post="9915059" timestamp="1653854231"]
Ericsson has the current most top 10 finishes for 2022, slow n steady.
[/quote]
[quote name="crooky369" post="9915077" timestamp="1653854369"]
I remember him getting beaten by Lotterer in the Caterham in Lotterer's one and only race in F1 at Spa.

He's come a long way since then and shows you that some drivers take longer to achieve their full potential.
[/quote]
[quote name="Lotus72b" post="9915087" timestamp="1653854475"]
I can't believe Marcus Ericsson Won The Indianapolis 500. In 2019 I got a picture with Marcus Ericsson.
[/quote]
[quote name="Claudius" post="9915199" timestamp="1653856033"]
Marcus Eriksson, Takuma Sato, Alexander Rossi.
If you can’t make it in F1, race in US and win Indy 500.

Not trolling, just finding it interesting.
[/quote]
[quote name="noriaki" post="9915315" timestamp="1653858507"]
Not a fan of any weaving in general but my overriding general stance about racing standards is "last laps of the 500, so jeez, cut them some slack". Marcus had just been temporarily screwed out of a certain victory by artificial yellow rules and it wasn't like Marcus was trying to kill anyone anyway.

Dixon fluffed it all up only by himself, the McLarens lost track of Ericsson on the pivotal moment, VK was trying to win the race 140 laps early, where was Daly in the end? Only Palou can feel somewhat hard done by and he'll get his 500 very soon I'm sure.

Not a classic 500 but good enough, with a 100% deserving winner. Ericsson entirely earned it by being there and delivering exactly when it counted, passing Harvey and Sato like a seasoned Indy veteran. And dude just had the most beaming smile I've seen anybody have in the Winners' Circle. He's worked very hard and clearly winning this meant so much to him.
[/quote]
[quote name="krapmeister" post="9915367" timestamp="1653859913"]
Well that sh!t all over Monaco.

Congrats to Marcus Ericsson! :up: :up: :up:

Really did feel like a Ganassi car was going to win for most of the race, but after Palou's misfortune, Dixon's speeding penalty and then the JJ red flag - I was beginning to think it wasn't going to be CGR's year.
[/quote]
[quote name="Rediscoveryx" post="9915387" timestamp="1653860540"]
Well done Marcus, what a drive!
 
I felt really sorry for Palou though - that was a really rough call…
[/quote]
[quote name="PayasYouRace" post="9915481" timestamp="1653864302"]
Hey congrats to Marcus for winning the 500. I'm sure I'll find some highlights to watch.
[/quote]
[quote name="Afterburner" post="9915541" timestamp="1653868473"]
Absolutely crushed for Dixon today... Indy can be so cruel.  :well:
 
Congrats to Ericsson–I had a sneaking suspicion he was going to be there in the end. Surprised O'Ward backed out at the start of the last lap. He had him.
[/quote]
[quote name="Frood" post="9916000" timestamp="1653905077"]
Everyone complains about a lack of character development in books/movies but can't understand when a real-life person shows character development.

There's no chance that Marcus Ericsson, for example, could have put his head down and worked hard at being a good IndyCar driver and definitely isn't finishing in the Top 10 week in and week out for a season and a half now.
[/quote]
[quote name="Peat" post="9915736" timestamp="1653893874"]
Woowee. I declared to my mate before the start that I thought Ericsson would win. I glanced at some odds online. 15 to 1, got to be worth a fiver on him. I didn't, I would have needed to set up and account to place a bet and besides, I had pretzels to devour. 

Anyway, another great Indy500 in the books. I could have done without that late Red Flag, felt a bit icky. Was sure the detroit Red Flag overheating payback was coming, but watching Marcus hold off the last lap effort from Pato was satisfying. Glad M.E won it, I was sure a Ganassi would win, they deserved it. Total superiority this 'month'. 

Dixon seemed to have the rub of the green all day so I was fairly amazed to see him screw it up at the end. A commentator said he 'fell victim' to a pit penalty.... BS. Pit IN and OUT is a massive part of it. It gives me no pleasure to labour it, but Dixon dropped the ball. 

Can't believe we've got to wait a whole year til the next one.  :down:

EDIT: I should add - Mclaren really seem to be getting their ducks in a row. Strong performance and beginning to look worthy of the amount of $$$ going into that program.
[/quote]

 
 

 
Phew again.
Then there are some posts which I personally would deem as fun/jokes or observations, not poking anyone in particular, or being negative. Of course, one may choose to see the worst in it.
 

[quote name="Frood" post="9915434" timestamp="1653862176"]
It's 2017. You've just witnessed Fernando Alonso challenging for the win in the Indy 500, only for it to end in heartbreak as he retires with engine failure in the last quarter of the race.

Instead, you see F1 never-quite-there man Takuma Sato take the victory.

"A fluke" you say.

Suddenly, a blinding flash of light assaults your eyes and a stranger appears in your living room.

"Hello, I'm from 5 years in the future. Hey, is that the Indy 500? The one Alonso retired from near the end?" asks the stranger.

"Yes" you reply. "But... He comes back, doesn't he? To the Indy 500?"

"Naturally" returns the stranger.

"...and does he win it? For McLaren?"

"Well, he comes back twice. With McLaren, yes. One time he's bumped from the field by a part-timer on a shoestring budget and the second time is so forgettable that I don't think he appeared on camera before he finished 21st"

You sit in stunned silence.

"Also Takuma Sato wins. Again."

"Unbelievable, but okay. You say you're from 5 years in the future. What's Alonso up to?"

"Tooling around driving as slowly as possible for 7th place in the Monaco Grand Prix."

"Oh."

"And on the same day, Marcus Ericsson wins the Indy 500"
[/quote]
[quote name="bargeboard" post="9915270" timestamp="1653857158"]
It's 2017. Someone turns to you and says "In five years Sergio Perez will win the Monaco GP and Marcus Ericsson will win the Indy 500". You both have a good laugh.
[/quote]
[quote name="danmills" post="9915066" timestamp="1653854272"]
Wasn't bad in F1, just not particularly memorable, like the years Giovinazzi filled a seat.
[/quote]
[quote name="billm99uk" post="9915016" timestamp="1653853927"]
oh come on. Marcus was just consistently mediocre. There has been plenty worse.  :cool:
[/quote] 

 
 
There was some posts about his career, or the level of IndyCar, or that they don't find him to be a great driver.
 

[quote name="Cliff" post="9914940" timestamp="1653853592"]
Did one of the worst F1 drivers of the past 10 years just win this? 😱🤷🏼‍♂️
[/quote]
[quote name="BRG" post="9916297" timestamp="1653916646"]
His record over his pre-Indy career is one of averageness (at best).  He was a karting and Formula BMW champ and won Japanese F3, but four (count 'em...four!) seasons in GP2 saw him slowly advance to 6th place with just one race win.  After his chums had bought him a F1 seat (because no-one was going to give him one free) he had five seasons finishing a best of 17th in the WDC standings, with best finishes of one 8th place and three 9th places.  This is not the record of someone 'developing'. 
 
It is hardly surprising that his success in Indycars has raised eyebrows and made some folk wonder how a plodder like Marcus can suddenly become a winner.  Is it because Indycar is at the same level competitively as Japanese F3?  Surely not!
[/quote]
[quote name="Ross Stonefeld" post="9916336" timestamp="1653918456"]
I think his 500 win was totally earned, like I definitely prefer it over Rossi's 2016 version.
 
But as an overall driver Ericsson is kinda unremarkable. Not quite pay driver but he's definitely where he is because he's had heavy and strange backing. He had these investors that basically bought Sauber. Some funny hotel chocolate powder is buying him a ride at Ganassi. On the open market he'd not be one of your first or even tenth picks?
 
But he's definitely found a groove this year/the past 12 months.
[/quote]
 

 

And posts directly in support of him from negativity.

 

[quote name="red stick" post="9916232" timestamp="1653914124"]
This was annoying yesterday and I just don't get it--the F1 faithful acknowledge that Caterham and Sauber may not be the best place to show your skill, and some even allowed that, with a few well-monied exceptions, it takes considerable ability to reach the series, but some still chose to take the Ericsson win as a comment on the relative "ease" of IndyCar. What it shows is what a skilled driver in a top-flight team can do--take advantage of the resources, learn the ropes from your teammates, listen to Coach Franchitti, and execute. Which is all Ericsson has done at CGR. Overshadowed by Dixon and Palou, perhaps, but ask other IndyCar drivers if they consider him a threat, week in and out.
[/quote]
[quote name="Peat" post="9915996" timestamp="1653904848"]
It's so frustrating to see every comments section on approaching-main stream outlets being overtaken by "muuuh, but Ericsson is **** so Indy must be **** too".

The general public are just awful.
[/quote]
[quote name="HeadFirst" post="9917070" timestamp="1653976304"]
It's really not[i] that [/i]bizarre. The Perez and Ericcson you saw in 2017, were largely a reflection of the cars they were driving. When you factor in the Red Bull, and the Ganassi prepared Dallara driven on Sunday, its not so surprising.
[/quote]
[quote name="Primo" post="9916458" timestamp="1653923950"]
I think that much of a drivers ability lies in their confidence. I think Marcus had it, lost it and then found it again. His driving after the restart proved that he had plenty.
[/quote]
[quote name="Xpat" post="9916253" timestamp="1653914901"]
This sort of annoying argument goes on every year. I am not sure why people feel the need to try to piss in everyone's Cheerios.
 
I think if any of these people asked Hill, Clark, Stewart, Mario, Emerson, or Alonso if they thought the 500 or the series was somehow inferior they would get an answer that doesn't comport with their notions. And those drivers actually know what they are talking about.
[/quote]

 
 
To be perfectly honest, I don't see the problem here. There will never be a driver or a team that get 100% positive and supportive posts no matter what happens. I have to say I'm actually surprised of the few negative posts I could find. Not based on your two posts about it, but I honestly thought it would be a lot more. The vast majority of post-race reactions here have been positive or at worst in the "positive-neutral" range. Trust me, I easily notice negativity around Bruno Senna, Jacques Villeneuve or Pierre-Louis Loubet myself, but I'm not sure the few negative posts about Ericsson here is worth using a single calorie on... 
 
 
On the subject of his sponsors. It is somewhat similar to Stroll. Backer(s) paying for a seat, paying a bit more to help the team, buying a different team and putting the driver in it. It wasn't until Vasseur wanted a driver, while Ferrari decided a driver it changed.
Regarding Huski. I have no idea how a company that makes hot chocolate and chocolate milk. Doesn't sell in most stores, are only in some alpine places (not all, and not the biggest), gives away a lot of free stuff (They've been giving away thousands and thousands of bottles here in Norway), only sell to Norway and Sweden online as well... How they can be the first ever principal partner of Milwall FC in the UK, with a 5 year "biggest ever" sponsorship deal for the club, they are the main kit sponsor for Hammarby Fotboll Men, Women and all youth teams, in what's branded "the largest and most all-reaching deal ever in Swedish football". They are the principal sponsor of Hammarby Bandy, they got the Huski Powerboat, they have the whole "Huski Chocolate Chip Ganassi Racing", they had the sole sponsorship of Rasmus Lindh in Indy Lights, at least for a little while. They sponsor Hampus Ericsson as well. In addition they sponsor some extremesport atlethes, some events, some "random" motorsport-people, like co-drivers, young karters etc. In addition they had the McLaren sponsorship where they provided hot chocolate for the McLaren VIP areas, and brought enough to get the rear of the rear wing in their own colors, which was a great deal as it stood out on the McLaren.
No matter how you look at it, there are someone behind that company which has a lot of money, but that doesn't want to/need to be known. As the people you can find in Swedish (or Norwegian) company-pages certainly don't have enough money to do all this. Sound familiar? Backers with money, being secretive, Swiss/Swedish/Swiss-Swedes, supporting Ericsson. One thing is for sure, they do not sell anywhere close to what they spend.
 
The parent company of Huski Chocolate have recorded massive losses. Income of less than 5 million SEK in 2019, but over 24 mill in expenses. Which just got a lot worse in 2021. Under 3 million SEK in income, and a total result which was at - 81 million SEK. Which mean that the company had a massive minus 2730% "profitmargin" in 2021. Latest I could find ranked the company at minus 150% in solidity. Or for the ones use the Du Pont analysis: Minus 225%
It's no wonder why there might be some questions about the money source and how they finance it all.
 
I really hope that whoever is behind it, keeps at it. As I said the Protein Choco milk they have is really tasty. I have tried before, and I keep trying to both get Huski to sponsor something I'm involved with, and also trying to convince the owners of the company I work at, that we should be getting Huski, it will fit into the image that Huski has, and also for us. Regardless, Huski looks like a rich persons toy

 

NOTE: There is a max amount of quotes here, so needed to put them all in codeboxes. I guess my point comes across regardless. Ericsson got a lot of positivity here, and very little negativity. Much better to focus on the majority than the tiny minority.

[paulb]

   

[Ross Stonefeld]

There was a lot of praise and some qualified acknowledgement/admiration, very little actual negativity.

 

 

The parent company of Huski Chocolate have recorded massive losses. Income of less than 5 million SEK in 2019, but over 24 mill in expenses. Which just got a lot worse in 2021. Under 3 million SEK in income, and a total result which was at - 81 million SEK. Which mean that the company had a massive minus 2730% "profitmargin" in 2021. Latest I could find ranked the company at minus 150% in solidity. Or for the ones use the Du Pont analysis: Minus 225%
It's no wonder why there might be some questions about the money source and how they finance it all.
 
I really hope that whoever is behind it, keeps at it. As I said the Protein Choco milk they have is really tasty. I have tried before, and I keep trying to both get Huski to sponsor something I'm involved with, and also trying to convince the owners of the company I work at, that we should be getting Huski, it will fit into the image that Huski has, and also for us. Regardless, Huski looks like a rich persons toy

 

 

Rich Energy without the twitter dickishness.

[Lemnpiper]

 Hi all, 

 

 

    So as i recall Cheever won with Rachel's Potato Chip on his sidepods.   Did we ever get a reason why Rachell's went under?

 

 

    Also  being 1/2  Swede  ( also 1/2 german )  i can tell you Swedes tend to be low keyed mostly about what goes on in their lives.

 

 

 

      Paul 

[red stick]

I've seen rebuttals
shred an argument, but none
so comprehensive.

[loki]

Huski looks like a tax shelter/hobby biz for some rich Euro dudes.

[derstatic]

Done some low level digging in swedish business media about Huski. The company was founded in 2012 by two alpine enthusiasts. The marketing side of things seems to be bankrolled by a fairly anonymous swedish real estate billionaire, Mikael Andersson. I found a number of 64 million swedish kronor, approx $6,7 million to be invested in various Huski activities over two years (article published Jan 2021). The amount seems to be low considering all the various teams and sports they are investing money into. I can't access the full article because of paywall, but it's from the largest business magazine in Sweden so usually credible. 

[Myrvold]

There was a lot of praise and some qualified acknowledgement/admiration, very little actual negativity.

 

 

Rich Energy without the twitter dickishness.

 

That's what I felt to, and as I had another period of a day where I basically had no life... 

 

Indeed, though I think it's easier to get your hands on Huski in the countries they exist compared to Rich Energy. Not that it would be hard to achieve.

 

Done some low level digging in swedish business media about Huski. The company was founded in 2012 by two alpine enthusiasts. The marketing side of things seems to be bankrolled by a fairly anonymous swedish real estate billionaire, Mikael Andersson. I found a number of 64 million swedish kronor, approx $6,7 million to be invested in various Huski activities over two years (article published Jan 2021). The amount seems to be low considering all the various teams and sports they are investing money into. I can't access the full article because of paywall, but it's from the largest business magazine in Sweden so usually credible. 

 

Interesting. It does seem very low indeed. $6.7 million to fund one IndyCar team, main sponsor for two football teams, sponsoring two F1 teams, and a lot of other athletes. I actually haven't read any newspapers about it, only company listings and finances. I tried to download some more detailed papers, but I had to register with the birthnumber etc. and as I'm not Swedish, that didn't work out.
I must admit, as a Norwegian where we maybe have one middle name. It is quite intersting to look through Swedish registrations and see all the names! So exotic, and yet so close 

[Jim Thurman]

Again, thanks all for the well-wishes. I'm quite touched and humbled. I wasn't even going to mention anything, as only a couple of folks knew ahead of time, but was a bit knackered post-op (the term "squeezed lemon" comes to mind). A comment on mortality in the Historical Research area prompted these replies, if anyone is interested. If not, cool too:

 

https://forums.autos...pion/?p=9897224

 

https://forums.autos...pion/?p=9905387

 

I won't go further into gory detail other than I wish to point out this was decidely not a cosmetic procedure. I do not have those washboard abs I never managed, no pec implants, no lipo  Besides, we've other members here who have dealt with, and are dealing with, far worse. Thanks again.

[red stick]

I love footnotes.  Also, a really good annotated bibliography, or any extended commentary on sources. 

 

Endnotes, less so.  

Edited by red stick, 05 June 2022 - 16:14.

[Muppetmad]

As an historian by profession (albeit not of motorsport, nor even modern history), I am embarrassed to admit I have missed the Historical Research section up to now. I will have to take a proper look. And yes, I agree with red stick: footnotes are wonderful; endnotes are the bane of my existence.