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Wolff wants to cut the number of non- factory teams that Mercedes supply with engines


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#1 SophieB

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 10:34

Wolff wants to drop a team.

 

 

 The Austrian said the business of leasing engines was not "compelling and interesting" because the governing FIA had limited how much customers could be charged in order to help smaller teams.

 

The German manufacturer supplies McLaren, Aston Martin and Williams as well as the title-winning works outfit of seven-times world champion Lewis Hamilton and George Russell.

The engines are designed and made in Brixworth, central England.

Formula One teams are subject to a $140-million cost cap this season, which the bigger ones want expanded due to rising freight costs and inflation.

"In an ideal world, I would maybe see us (Mercedes) plus two (customer teams), so actually downsize a bit," said Wolff.

 

https://www.reuters....eam-2022-05-29/

 

 

 

 



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#2 TheFish

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 10:39

Williams Renault or Aston Martin Audi incoming?



#3 FullThrottleF1

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 10:46

Wolff is the biggest jerk this sport has ever seen. A man with way too much power

#4 Timstr11

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 10:55

Wolff is the biggest jerk this sport has ever seen. A man with way too much power

 

That's a very strong reaction  :confused:

 

He's running a business, not a charity organization.

 

He's merely saying that, given the regulated max engine price, the cost of supplying 4 teams does not give them the return on investment they would like.



#5 Mat13

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:01

Or alternatively, he doesn’t like the idea of being beaten by one of his customer teams.

#6 TheFish

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:05

Or alternatively, he doesn’t like the idea of being beaten by one of his customer teams.

But that hasn't happened since we switched to hybrid engines and isn't likely to happen this year either.



#7 HP

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:05

Mclaren getting Merc engines wasn't the most obvious move back then when they parted with Honda. However there was some agreement in place how many teams an engine manufacturer can deliver its engine to.

 

So if they drop a team, that means most likely that team has to go with Renault.

 

I do agree that Mercedes presence and influence in F1 needs to be kept in check. Some team bosses seem to emulate bygone FOM/FIA times a bit too much


Edited by HP, 29 May 2022 - 11:06.


#8 Anja

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:07

*Renault likes this*



#9 Mat13

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:09

But that hasn't happened since we switched to hybrid engines and isn't likely to happen this year either.


No, but it’s never been closer- McLaren look to be on a par performance wise, track dependent. If Ricciardo turns up at some point this year it’ll be even closer.

#10 smitten

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:22

Wolff is the biggest jerk this sport has ever seen. A man with way too much power

Well that's triggered you :rotfl:

 

I can see his commercial point of view on this.  As engine tech is so expensive and it's hard to justify manufacturers selling at a loss, maybe Liberty/FIA can subsidise customer teams so the team spend is still capped, but the manufacturers don't actively lose money on each unit leased.



#11 Disgrace

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:23

Whatever his intentions, it would be objectively better for the sport if there were more engine manufacturers, or a more even distribution of competitive suppliers.



#12 MortenF1

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:28

I’ve no problems understanding Wolffs view on this. The gross margin on PU’s aren’t very high, or else he wouldn’t want to reduce the teams they supply by one.

Wasn’t it a running truth that with Albon at Williams, they would be running RBPT from 2023?
This will fix itself if that happens.

#13 pdac

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:29

Yet another example of how the big teams just want to spend and spend. He's not really saying he does not want to supply many other teams as much as he's complaining about the price cap on what they can charge.



#14 smitten

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:31

Yet another example of how the big teams just want to spend and spend. He's not really saying he does not want to supply many other teams as much as he's complaining about the price cap on what they can charge.

I think the big teams have incomes way in excess of the cap, so I don't think its that he wants to spend more (although would if he could).  Just that Merc aren't a charity and supplying engines at a loss would not make sense.



#15 frosty125

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:36

A bit surprised, more teams equals more data that is of significant value. I guess each team supplied is a net financial loss to the programme?

#16 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:37

It’s probably also to do with no customer/manufacture PU maps…

Edited by GrumpyYoungMan, 29 May 2022 - 11:37.


#17 Elloh

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 11:51

Williams Renault or Aston Martin Audi incoming?

Mercedes are part owners of Aston Martin (up to 20%) and they supply the road cars with engines, Toto Wolf got himself a few percantages shareholding in Aston.

Most likely is to put pressure to be able to charge more for the engines.



#18 timmy bolt

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 12:01

He's right though surely. If they're operating at a loss or at margins so low its not worth the effort to supply a customer what's the point?

#19 New Britain

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 12:19

Wolff is the biggest jerk this sport has ever seen. A man with way too much power

Fair enough that you may intensely dislike the man, but his standing relative to both your sentences has been greatly exceeded by at least a few other people!  ;)



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#20 Gary Davies

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 12:21

Wolff is the biggest jerk this sport has ever seen. A man with way too much power

What an extraordinary take on a perfectly reasonable and mildly conveyed opinion.

 

Have a nice day, will ya!  :wave:



#21 Beamer

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 12:27

Probably some customer teams complaining as merc doesn't seem to be the best engine anymore and just trying to save face by being 1 stepnahead

#22 H0R

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 12:28

Wolff is the biggest jerk this sport has ever seen. A man with way too much power

I know a couple of people to beat him in both regards. Easily.

Besides: His request is perfectly reasonable and more than understandable.



#23 Bleu

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 12:29

I hope this will mean Aston Martin or Williams will move to Renault and possibly give Piastri a drive at the same time. That, if Alpine keeps current line-up.



#24 KeithD68

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 13:14

F1 isn't a charity

 

If there is no profit or benefit in supplying engines, why should Mercedes do it?



#25 Massa

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 13:16

Wolff is the biggest jerk this sport has ever seen. A man with way too much power



What's wrong with you ? He is not here to sell at lost.

Edited by Massa, 29 May 2022 - 13:16.


#26 piszkosfred

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 13:25

Wolff is the biggest jerk this sport has ever seen. A man with way too much power

I could name a few even bigger jerks: Marko (biggest idiot of all time), Ron Dennis, Flavio, Balestre, Max Mosley (close 2nd to Marko and just ahead of Balestre), the new FIA chief (who's climbing pretty fast in this list to the higher postions), just to name a few.

 

Update: nearly left out Bernie "The Gunman" Ecclestone, very high on the jerk list.


Edited by piszkosfred, 29 May 2022 - 13:44.


#27 William Hunt

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 13:28

Wolff is the biggest jerk this sport has ever seen. A man with way too much power

 

No, that's stretching it way too far. Yes teams or team bosses of top teams have too much power. And I strongly dislike Wolff & Horner's behavious towards Andretti or new teams in general. But he is a very decent guy and most probably a very good boss for his own team. And he has manners.

He is no jerk imho , that kind of language is much more appropriate when talking about Briatore: worst team boss ever.


Edited by William Hunt, 29 May 2022 - 13:29.


#28 statman

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 14:04

Wolff is the biggest jerk this sport has ever seen. A man with way too much power

 

Toto Wolff says it's a good to race in Saudi Arabia

Toto Wolff says Saudi attack is part of their culture

Toto Wolff says F1 should have more races in China

Toto Wolff says he sees no added value of 11th team

Toto Wolff is opposed to Andretti racing team

Toto Wolff says...

Toto..

.....

 

and this is only recent



#29 William Hunt

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 14:07

So Williams to use Renault engines + an Alpine Junior driver then?



#30 Tiakumosan

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 15:05

Hope this means a seat for Piastri.

#31 William Hunt

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 15:08

Hope this means a seat for Piastri.

 

Or for Victor Martins (both him and Piastri could get a seat if Alonso moves to McLaren, Aston Martin or even Haas and Piastri takes his place, Martins is better as Doohan). It's a very long shot though but I would like that scenario to happen, wishful thinking;


Edited by William Hunt, 29 May 2022 - 15:08.


#32 Claymore25

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 12:40

Williams wih renault engine + Piastri?



#33 HeadFirst

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 06:07

So Williams to use Renault engines + an Alpine Junior driver then?

 

Perhaps the Red Bull/Hondas would be more appropriate, given what happened at Monaco.