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Race Control in 2022


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#1 TheFish

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 15:07

I thought the aftermath of Abu Dhabi might lead to some better officiating but we’ve now had multiple incidents of inconsistency and bad decision making.

Yesterday we had a red flag in qualifying for no reason and now we have a car literally in half and we have a VSC for a few minutes, followed by a SC for a few laps before finally a red flag. Consistency and common sense appears to be impossible at the moment.

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#2 jwill189

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 15:08

I thought the aftermath of Abu Dhabi might lead to some better officiating but we’ve now had multiple incidents of inconsistency and bad decision making.

Yesterday we had a red flag in qualifying for no reason and now we have a car literally in half and we have a VSC for a few minutes, followed by a SC for a few laps before finally a red flag. Consistency and common sense appears to be impossible at the moment.

 

Generally, when a car is cut in half, a red flag is a good idea. Race direction 101.



#3 Izzyeviel

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:07

well it was awful today. But the MSC thing was as it should be. They tried to keep the race going under sc, and when it became apparent a repair to the barrier needed to be done, out came the red flag as it should.



#4 Myrvold

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:09

The Mick-accident was possibly one the only calls that actually seemed logical.

However I would've expected them to know about the barriers a bit earlier.



#5 krapmeister

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:14

I thought the aftermath of Abu Dhabi might lead to some better officiating but we’ve now had multiple incidents of inconsistency and bad decision making.

Yesterday we had a red flag in qualifying for no reason and now we have a car literally in half and we have a VSC for a few minutes, followed by a SC for a few laps before finally a red flag. Consistency and common sense appears to be impossible at the moment.

 

And that's with 2 different Race Directors!

 

edit: not this weekend obviously but over the course of the season so far


Edited by krapmeister, 29 May 2022 - 16:33.


#6 Laster

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:17

The MSC was a painfully obvious red to me. Car split in half and barriers out of place, one glance at the scren had that. Instead they did laps under VSC and then more under SC before eventually getting to red. Yet they called a red when Tsunoda got a puncture in qualifying, awful decision making going on there.

Then the matter of the start where we could have had a race start and been going for 18 minutes before the rain came down, but they just faffed around delaying things at the slightest sprinkle of water.

It really has become increasingly shambolic over the years. The FIA, race director, they have to do better than this, it’s pathetic at the moment.

Edited by Laster, 29 May 2022 - 16:17.


#7 uzsjgb

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:28

Generally, when a car is cut in half, a red flag is a good idea. Race direction 101.

 

No.

 

Race direction always throws a VSC first, to slow the cars down immediately. A VSC can be thrown immediately and all cars must drive at a mandated speed. Exactly the same will happen with a red flag, so initially there is no difference to on-track safety.

 

Schumacher's car was off the racing line and was cleared away very fast, so there was no reason for a red flag at that moment. Only after the marshals reported that heavy equipment was needed for the barrier repair, was the red flag shown.

 

I have no objections to how this was handled.



#8 chrcol

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:02

Agree with the comments, also I think the restart timer, needs to be reduced to 5 minutes with a consideration of reducing it further in future, after the second red flag, everyone was sitting and waiting before the 5 minute mark on the 10 minute call.



#9 TheFish

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:55

See also: not investigating the pit exit infractions. No excuse. Proper amateur hour. We don’t want to wait until hours after the race ends to find out who wins, especially when it happens early in the race. It’s not a surprise technical infraction.

#10 Hellenic tifosi

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:59

And no investigation on the Williams drivers. One of the most blatant examples of blue flag breaches I 've seen.



#11 jpm2019

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 19:03

Red flag yesterday was crazy.

 

red flag today was ok. But took WAY to long before the vsc became a sc. I just can’t understand. 
 

Albon was crazy. Long time ago that insaw something like this.

 

however they did make the right call not starting the race, i was very mad at first but in hindsight they did the right thing. Communications just lack. 
 

overall it’s just amateur hour.



#12 Myrvold

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 19:07

And now they have said a different reason for not starting on time.
Sooo, they lied the first time?

#13 P123

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 19:10

Generally, when a car is cut in half, a red flag is a good idea. Race direction 101.

 

We saw the replay, which would have been available to the race director.  And it was not cut in half, albeit a very odd one for a tecpro barrier to rip-off the gearbox, especially when that was the secondary impact.  It took RD 5 or 10 mins to actually red flag it, so they must have been on Race Direction 102: Masi Edition at first.  :)



#14 ARTGP

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 20:14

Generally, when a car is cut in half, a red flag is a good idea. Race direction 101.

 

Nah, local white flag for slow moving car is all that's needed.  

 

It's funny how these muppets couldn't pull the white flag for Tsunoda in qualifying, and then couldn't pull the red when Schumacher made very expensive confetti and you'd be forgiven for thinking a medivac or worse would be required. 


Edited by ARTGP, 29 May 2022 - 20:18.


#15 ARTGP

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 20:17

No.

 

Race direction always throws a VSC first, to slow the cars down immediately. A VSC can be thrown immediately and all cars must drive at a mandated speed. Exactly the same will happen with a red flag, so initially there is no difference to on-track safety.

 

Schumacher's car was off the racing line and was cleared away very fast, so there was no reason for a red flag at that moment. Only after the marshals reported that heavy equipment was needed for the barrier repair, was the red flag shown.

 

I have no objections to how this was handled.

 

He may have been off the racing line but his car was a giant target (or rather many small targets...), for the cars that were on the racing line losing control. It's no longer a barrier when another object is in front of it. 


Edited by ARTGP, 29 May 2022 - 20:18.


#16 sofarapartguy

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 20:57

Have a quick solution:

 

1. Race starts no matter what and always as scheduled 

2. No rolling starts. Do couple of laps behind SC if needed and then standing start. 

3. You start a race and have huge crash? Red flag it and deal with it. 

 

Would save us from both Spa21 and Monaco22 misery. 



#17 absinthedude

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:21

I now understand the delayed start was due to a power failure caused by the rain.....so I can cut the RD slack for that. 

 

Mick's crash. Perhaps it wasn't so obvious a red flag situation. It wasn't too difficult to move the car out of the way. The thing that needed time was the barrier repairs. And that would have needed to be communicated by the marshals, who presumably wanted to clear the track first. Also, does anyone know if there's someone specifically with responsibility to oversee barrier repairs? Who makes the call regarding estimated time to repair barriers and whether heavy equipment is needed?

 

I get it...VSC -> SC -> Red Flag. Not pretty but I see the logic. 



#18 Paa

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:49

My simple question would not need his own thread and I could not find a better topic to ask.

 

Is there any effect if a driver gets a "formal warning"? I know that 5 reprimands = 10 grid penalty.

However, I'm not sure if warning has any actual effect?

 

This is from Qualy.

Sergio got a warning for impeding: https://www.fia.com/... in turn 18.pdf

 

Carlos received a reprimand: https://www.fia.com/... in turn 19.pdf

 

Warning for Zhou for the same: https://www.fia.com/...s 15 and 16.pdf

 

I see that warning comes with a €10k fine, but not sure if there is anything else.



#19 Ruusperi

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 23:26

Generally, when a car is cut in half, a red flag is a good idea. Race direction 101.

If the driver reports to be alright, and there are no debris blocking the driveway, I don't see why they should red flag the session "just because the crash scene looks dramatic". By the same logic they should show red flag every time there's a car upside down, because it looks dramatic to see the bottom of the car. But nearly always the driver is ok, and the car be flipped during the SC.

Race director shouldn't make decision based on emotional reactions but careful judgment.



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#20 ANF

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 23:42

Schumacher's accident was one of those where the aftermath makes you think the accident was more serious than it actually was, so I was actually impressed by how race control kept calm and didn't throw a red flag. Red flags often ruin the race strategy-wise and you can't undo them.



#21 ThadGreen

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 00:46

What I don't understand is why the cars can't be rearranged in the correct order while parked in the pits? We had the safety car come out and then on course overtakes by the back markers so the race could start in the proper order. Heck they are allowed to work on the cars during a red flag why not sort out the order of the restart also..



#22 kumo7

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 00:46

Have a quick solution:

 

1. Race starts no matter what and always as scheduled 

2. No rolling starts. Do couple of laps behind SC if needed and then standing start. 

3. You start a race and have huge crash? Red flag it and deal with it. 

 

Would save us from both Spa21 and Monaco22 misery. 

 

On 1, I disagree.

 

The cars are tested in the tunnels, I mean the one that could even design the fighter jets. 

Whereas, FIA has not even a proper method to measure amount of rain fall nor even publish the threshold of go or no go. 

In this way, FIA knows NOTHING, literally NOTHING about when to restart the race. 

 

I mean is this good in any ways?

We all know that rain race is one of the most eventful one. 

Every one want to watch it, box full of millions.

 

 

Red flag was inevitable, abd the race stars delay was not.

 

 

 

Just go buy rain meter !!!!

 

 

 

Obviously I was not feeling well as I imagined that boys and girls went out for shopping in the same rain  in the same town at the same time.

So why should the current formula 1 car with HUGE Venturi tunnels not able to race safely?

Splash of water? You can specify it for rain race only to fit mud guards, the one that covers perhaps just 1/10th of the entire wheel!!!!

 

 

 

:down:  :down:  :down:  :down:



#23 SophieB

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 08:18

I think Race Control need to answer some questions about the handling of the race start yesterday, especially as there have been conflicting accounts of what happened. Why was the start delayed? Reports of bad weather coming in, apparently. So why delay and then send them out on formation laps as the weather gets worse? Was it true about the arguments about what to do? Is it true about the power cut and if so what did if affect and for how long? 
 

And above all, why again was there so little communication throughout the delays?



#24 BRG

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 09:58

It's good that they have learned so much from the Abu Dhabi issue.  There is proper attention being made to the drivers' underwear now.  These other things, race starts, red and blue flags, pitlane violations, these are minor peccadilloes.  Lewis's nose ring is the big issue to be confronted.



#25 Roadhouse

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 10:28

Has there been a barrier repair lately which didn't lead to a red flag? They should've called it instantly. Waiting this long is bad for safety and also severely compromises races of people who pit under VSC/SC. At least now we know they didn't do it to mess with Hamilton last season, it was just general indecisiveness.



#26 Clrnc

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 07:41

Race direction is worse than last year definitely. So many stupid and bizarre decisions that can't be explained.

Not starting the gp when it was dry is just stupid. Then the rest of the incidents people pointed out. So many this season already.

#27 Beri

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 07:56

Race direction is worse than last year definitely. So many stupid and bizarre decisions that can't be explained.

Not starting the gp when it was dry is just stupid. Then the rest of the incidents people pointed out. So many this season already.

 

Yeah.. well.. before you go on and rant about something, read the facts and then form an opinion.

 

Power cut caused by heavy rain delayed start of Monaco GP · RaceFans



#28 Clrnc

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 10:53

I read that and it didn't make sense. I was there at the start it didn't even rain much if any. If they started on time it would be fine.

Unless you are agreeing they can predict a later power cut.

#29 Beri

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 11:33

The delay was already imminent because there were technical issues on the starting grid before the initial starting time. A subsequent power outage made it impossible to fix in total, so never was there going to be a standing start at the race.



#30 Clrnc

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 15:10

In that case that's their fault they didn't announce it. It kept everyone there wondering why the hell are we not starting and the gp announcer said in French it was due to rain.

https://www.motorspo...iewed/10313810/

Every other website only said technical problems were after the delayed start and it was delayed due to imminent rain which many drivers disagreed with

Edited by Clrnc, 31 May 2022 - 15:13.


#31 Casey

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 15:16

Yeah.. well.. before you go on and rant about something, read the facts and then form an opinion.

 

Power cut caused by heavy rain delayed start of Monaco GP · RaceFans

 

 

Wow , that's a strange take on this forum !



#32 sofarapartguy

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 15:23

I read that and it didn't make sense. I was there at the start it didn't even rain much if any. If they started on time it would be fine.

Unless you are agreeing they can predict a later power cut.

 

What if they just.. trying to save a face with blatant lie? 



#33 ViperF1

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 15:44

Maybe there were power problems due to the rain but I have it hard to believe this was the reason for the delays.

 

It has merely inspired them to come up with an excuse for the divisiveness in the race control room.

 

There were absolutely zero reasons for the race to be delayed from 14.00 to 14.09 and then 14.16.

 

Zero.



#34 Bleu

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 06:15

The first start delay I can somehow understand for the reason that teams were not ready with rain tyres at the 3-minute signal.



#35 smitten

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 06:22

The first start delay I can somehow understand for the reason that teams were not ready with rain tyres at the 3-minute signal.

Well at the original start time, I don't think anybody would have gone with extreme wets.

 

And even if the teams weren't ready, surely that is their problem, not RCs? 



#36 Clrnc

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 07:33

The first start was so dry some might even still go for slicks first. It was barely spitting with rain and in the grandstand we didn't need any ponchos. It was that light.

#37 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 07:41

Yeah.. well.. before you go on and rant about something, read the facts and then form an opinion.

 

Power cut caused by heavy rain delayed start of Monaco GP · RaceFans

To be fair, the communication was abysmal once again and on the face of it the only reason they delayed was due to the incoming weather.

 

If this power cut thing is true, they could have just put that message up for the fans and the job is done. These things happen - it would have been annoying but not half as annoying as keeping the cars on the grid for rain that wasn’t even at the circuit yet.

 

F1/FIA shoots itself in the foot once again.



#38 Beri

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 07:57

I completely agree. F1 race directors need to go back to kindergarten school to learn the basics of communication.



#39 kumo7

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 08:54

The first start delay I can somehow understand for the reason that teams were not ready with rain tyres at the 3-minute signal.

 

I completely agree. F1 race directors need to go back to kindergarten school to learn the basics of communication.

 

I sort of think that FIA need to be ruthless, so ruthless that the team HAS to race even if they are obliged to make in-proper choice. The race start time is published at the start of the year. 

So, IMHO, FIA should not give any permission to any teams crying that they are not ready, even if it were a title contender.



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#40 Clrnc

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 09:05

To be fair, the communication was abysmal once again and on the face of it the only reason they delayed was due to the incoming weather.

If this power cut thing is true, they could have just put that message up for the fans and the job is done. These things happen - it would have been annoying but not half as annoying as keeping the cars on the grid for rain that wasn’t even at the circuit yet.

F1/FIA shoots itself in the foot once again.

Power cut thing only happened during the heavy rain which led to the 2nd delay. First delay had no justification till now

#41 JimmyClark

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 09:22

The problem is that Whiting was at the top of F1 for so long, and did such a great job, that there was nobody gaining experience of the job. Masi was his understudy, and is probably the best qualified person for the job. For various reasons he was thrown under the bus after AD (even though it was likely more of a failing of the structure of RC/FIA rather than him himself). Had that decision not affected a championship, Masi would still be in a job and likely he would have had some clout to say he needs a support network around him. 

 

So now we have the best qualified race director shifted out somewhere else, and two rotating race directors who seem completely out of depth with the pressures of F1. I'm not sure how much input Herbie Blash is having. 

 

I just cannot see the situation improving for a year or two until more experience is gained by various people and someone grabs the structure by the scruff of the neck and improves it. And, dare I say it, Masi coming back in some kind of role should be part of that. 



#42 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 10:20

The problem is that Whiting was at the top of F1 for so long, and did such a great job, that there was nobody gaining experience of the job. Masi was his understudy, and is probably the best qualified person for the job. For various reasons he was thrown under the bus after AD (even though it was likely more of a failing of the structure of RC/FIA rather than him himself). Had that decision not affected a championship, Masi would still be in a job and likely he would have had some clout to say he needs a support network around him. 

 

So now we have the best qualified race director shifted out somewhere else, and two rotating race directors who seem completely out of depth with the pressures of F1. I'm not sure how much input Herbie Blash is having. 

 

I just cannot see the situation improving for a year or two until more experience is gained by various people and someone grabs the structure by the scruff of the neck and improves it. And, dare I say it, Masi coming back in some kind of role should be part of that. 

I may be absolutely wrong, but I always had a feeling that the Herbie Blash appointment was more to appease the fans with a familiar name and one of Whiting’s gang, rather than him actually having much input.



#43 JimmyClark

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 10:57

I may be absolutely wrong, but I always had a feeling that the Herbie Blash appointment was more to appease the fans with a familiar name and one of Whiting’s gang, rather than him actually having much input.

 

That would explain a lot. 



#44 SophieB

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 11:23

Martin Brundle underscoring the lack of communication throughout and again alluding to arguments inside race control about how to proceed:
 
 

Holding up a race in anticipation of incoming weather is not necessary. We have virtual and real safety cars, red flags, pit stop crews who can change tyres in two seconds, and two types of wet weather tyres to cover those challenges. That's what Formula One racing is all about.
A couple of reliable sources tell me that there were heated arguments in Race Control during the impasse as we all looked on unsure of what was happening. This presumably explains the periods of inaction and lack of information, and the reason why the safety car was not out exploring track conditions as usual.

 
 
 

​We were informed by the FIA at 20.03 after the race on Sunday that there were power issues on the starting gantry due to the heavy rain which explains the rolling starts after the red flags. If we had been told this in the media via our simple and effective WhatsApp group, we could have then informed the tens of millions of viewers around the globe and the tens of thousands of fans trackside, and it would all have made a lot more sense.
During the first red flag the race appeared to randomly get underway on the countdown clock and with a lap showing as completed, there must presumably have been a trigger point, but then we were treated to some outstanding car control by drivers with zero experience of the 2022 cars on the new 18" wheels on a wet and slippery Monaco.

 
https://www.skysport...woe-and-the-fia



#45 milestone 11

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 11:44

Sounds like Peter Bayer has gone with immediate effect

#46 SophieB

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 12:00

Sounds like Peter Bayer has gone with immediate effect

Has he? Have you hear/read something or as you reading between the lines of what MB is saying?



#47 milestone 11

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 12:08

Has he? Have you hear/read something or as you reading between the lines of what MB is saying?

Deliberately didn't name the source. Joe Saward tweeted to this effect half an hour ago.

#48 SophieB

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 12:17

Oh, interesting. Well, I guess we’ll here more either way!



#49 milestone 11

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 12:22

Oh, interesting. Well, I guess we’ll here more either way!

I'm keeping my eye tuned.

#50 milestone 11

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Posted 01 June 2022 - 13:20

Gone. Autosport confirmation.