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Ocon Monaco Penalty


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#1 AustinF1

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:49

Hmm ... a curious one, IMHO. It was clear that there was no way the overtake was on, and I'm at a loss to understand what Ocon was supposed to do there. He was just turning in to make the corner. What was he expected to do ... just go off into the runoff and wave Lewis past once Lewis got his wing to his rear wheel?


Edited by AustinF1, 29 May 2022 - 16:50.


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#2 noikeee

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:51

He was sleeping and caused a crash by turning into a car that was there.

He got a penalty for it.

Seems fair to me?

Edited by noikeee, 29 May 2022 - 16:52.


#3 timmy bolt

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:54

Hmm ... a curious one, IMHO. It was clear that there was no way the overtake was on, and I'm at a loss to understand what Ocon was supposed to do there. He was just turning in to make the corner. What was he expected to do ... just go off into the runoff and wave Lewis past once Lewis got his wing to his rear wheel?


Wasn't there a couple incidents? But one wasn't shown?

Need to see some replays.

#4 draghixa

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:54

If it is the same director who gave Fernando a five-second penalty in Miami, then Lewis should be at fault this time.

#5 Jones Foyer

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:55

“He turned in on me, man” is one of Lewis’s most famous catchphrases.

#6 AustinF1

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:59

Wasn't there a couple incidents? But one wasn't shown?

Need to see some replays.

That's what I was wondering about. I just can't see anything he did wrong, in the St. Devote incident.



#7 AustinF1

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 16:59

“He turned in on me, man” is one of Lewis’s most famous catchphrases.

Indeed.



#8 yolo

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:00

Hmm ... a curious one, IMHO. It was clear that there was no way the overtake was on, and I'm at a loss to understand what Ocon was supposed to do there. He was just turning in to make the corner. What was he expected to do ... just go off into the runoff and wave Lewis past once Lewis got his wing to his rear wheel?

 

Lewis's front axle was alongside Ocon's sidepods, he had a right to the corner, and Ocon should have left some room for him, which he didn't.

 

That's causing an avoidable collision which is a slam dunk penalty (though leniency is often applied at race starts/re-starts)


Edited by yolo, 29 May 2022 - 17:04.


#9 Casey

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:17

The penalty was for the other one , not for the corner contact .



#10 SilverArrow31

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:19

Hmm ... a curious one, IMHO. It was clear that there was no way the overtake was on, and I'm at a loss to understand what Ocon was supposed to do there. He was just turning in to make the corner. What was he expected to do ... just go off into the runoff and wave Lewis past once Lewis got his wing to his rear wheel?

It wasn't for what we saw... a lap or two after Ocon squeezed Hamilton into the wall. The tell is Hamilton went through the runoff on the video showing the second clash, he didnt on the live feed.

https://www.reddit.c...omment/iag3qou/

Edited by SilverArrow31, 29 May 2022 - 17:20.


#11 P123

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:23

Hmm ... a curious one, IMHO. It was clear that there was no way the overtake was on, and I'm at a loss to understand what Ocon was supposed to do there. He was just turning in to make the corner. What was he expected to do ... just go off into the runoff and wave Lewis past once Lewis got his wing to his rear wheel?

 

The overtake was very much on, but I suspect he got it for his swerve under braking, which was another incident, and worse.  Not sure blindly committing to a corner when a car is predominantly up your inside generates the sort of innocence you seem to think though.



#12 GentlemanDriver091

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:31

It wasn't for what we saw... a lap or two after Ocon squeezed Hamilton into the wall. The tell is Hamilton went through the runoff on the video showing the second clash, he didnt on the live feed.

https://www.reddit.c...omment/iag3qou/

Not the first time Ocon squeezed someone into the wall, if my memory isn’t mistaken. He can’t complain about a 5 second penalty.

#13 peroa

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:31

So both Ocon and Alfonso driving like they have a grudge, one against the team and the other against the driver.



#14 MrRat

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:35

So both Ocon and Alfonso driving like they have a grudge, one against the team and the other against the driver.

Yup coz everything is about Lewis being the victim  :stoned:  :stoned:



#15 timmy bolt

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:36

It wasn't for what we saw... a lap or two after Ocon squeezed Hamilton into the wall. The tell is Hamilton went through the runoff on the video showing the second clash, he didnt on the live feed.

https://www.reddit.c...omment/iag3qou/


5s seems lenient for that.

#16 Gareth

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:37

It wasn't for what we saw... a lap or two after Ocon squeezed Hamilton into the wall. The tell is Hamilton went through the runoff on the video showing the second clash, he didnt on the live feed.

https://www.reddit.c...omment/iag3qou/

Thanks for the link.

That’s pretty poor driving tbh, definitely right to penalize.

#17 prty

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:37

Same race director?

 



#18 MrRat

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:38

Thanks for the link.

That’s pretty poor driving tbh, definitely right to penalize.

Agreed, that's bad.



#19 P123

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:42

Same race director?

 

 

Not at all comparable, given the car on the outside is giving a cars width racing room and does not chop across.  Regardless, not what Ocon was very deservedly penalised for, so the attempted comparison despite being off the mark, is also irrelevant.



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#20 chrcol

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:53

Hmm ... a curious one, IMHO. It was clear that there was no way the overtake was on, and I'm at a loss to understand what Ocon was supposed to do there. He was just turning in to make the corner. What was he expected to do ... just go off into the runoff and wave Lewis past once Lewis got his wing to his rear wheel?

I think its wrong to say the lead driver can ignore a car attempting an overtake as if it wasnt there, a gap must be left.  However I dont think this incident caused the penalty.


Edited by chrcol, 29 May 2022 - 17:54.


#21 w1Y

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:54

I don't think alonsos actions have anything to do with Hamilton. It really had no impact on hamiltons race as he finished where he would have if alonso went faster.

The only person who got screwed from alonsos actions was his teammate. And I think the penalty on Ocon for the wall squeeze is justified. I thought it was on the first instance and a bit borderline originally.

#22 Dmitriy_Guller

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:56

I think a lot went down that wasn't shown.  At some point before the safety car Ocon dropped way behind Hamilton, and we have no idea why.



#23 SilverArrow31

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:02

I think a lot went down that wasn't shown. At some point before the safety car Ocon dropped way behind Hamilton, and we have no idea why.

Yeah they both pitted at similar times I was shocked that Hamilton suddenly found 10 seconds on Ocon, I think Hamilton did pit first but he would not of found all that in an undercut.

Edit: Actually I think I remember Ocon and Alonso staying on wets for at least two laps after everyone else changed to slicks. Hamilton probably made up the time then.

Edited by SilverArrow31, 29 May 2022 - 18:05.


#24 Wingcommander

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:03

If it is the same director who gave Fernando a five-second penalty in Miami, then Lewis should be at fault this time.

 

Race directors don't give penalties.



#25 TheFish

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:10

Hamilton backing Ocon into the traffic behind at the end is decent karma.

#26 Diablobb81

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:45

The stewards are idiots for giving only a 5 sec penalty for the second incident.



#27 AustinF1

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:50

It wasn't for what we saw... a lap or two after Ocon squeezed Hamilton into the wall. The tell is Hamilton went through the runoff on the video showing the second clash, he didnt on the live feed.

https://www.reddit.c...omment/iag3qou/

OK, cool. Thanks! That makes much more sense.



#28 OneAndOnly

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 19:25

He deserved black flag. Driving standards are so poor these days. Shunt other driver to the wall - 5 seconds penalty. Why he wouldn’t do it again?

#29 Ramses1348

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 19:28

He deserved black flag. Driving standards are so poor these days. Shunt other driver to the wall - 5 seconds penalty. Why he wouldn’t do it again?


he’s actually done it before! is there a worst defender on the grid than ocon? I don’t think so

#30 OneAndOnly

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 19:32

he’s actually done it before! is there a worst defender on the grid than ocon? I don’t think so

Was he ever black flagged for it? No. That’s why he won’t stop doing it.

#31 draghixa

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 19:39

Race directors don't give penalties.

Yes my mistake I actually mean steward.

#32 ANF

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 20:23

"The Stewards reviewed the video evidence and noted that on approach to Turn 1 there was a significant portion of Car 44 alongside Car 31 and therefore applying the 2022 Driving Standards Guidelines, Car 44 was entitled to racing room in Turn 1."

:up:



#33 Silberpfeil

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:11

I genuinely can‘t tell if I‘m seeing something different to everyone else here… what it looks like to me is:

Ocon uses his normal racing line and brake marker on the approach to T1. Literally no different to his previous laps, judging by F1TV.

Hamilton goes for a lunge just as the gap between Ocon‘s car and the barrier starts to reach towards its narrowest point due to the angle of the right-hand side of the pit exit coming towards Ocon‘s racing line.

In no way does Ocon do anything different to before. He doesn‘t brake any earlier than on any of the previous laps and he doesn‘t take a different line. He doesn’t steer to take space away from Hamilton, either. The only thing that‘s different is Hamilton‘s lunge, which comes just as Ocon lifts off the throttle going under the TAG Heuer sign. By that point, Ocon’s committed to his line into T1 as Hamilton rapidly comes up to his right rear tyre, seeking space with his massive overspeed where there obviously isn‘t going to be any.

I don‘t see that as a penalty-worthy action from Ocon at all.

(As a sidenote, I feel the debate around this incident here and elsewhere would have greatly benefitted from either the availability of Hamilton’s or Ocon‘s forward-facing camera. Alas…)

#34 TennisUK

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:14

Another link here of the video which is actually working:

https://twitter.com/...Q1FcTfjD5QqRIQQ

Looks dodgy from Ocon to me.

#35 smitten

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:16

I genuinely can‘t tell if I‘m seeing something different to everyone else here… what it looks like to me is:

Ocon uses his normal racing line and brake marker on the approach to T1. Literally no different to his previous laps, judging by F1TV.

Hamilton goes for a lunge just as the gap between Ocon‘s car and the barrier starts to reach towards its narrowest point due to the angle of the right-hand side of the pit exit coming towards Ocon‘s racing line.

In no way does Ocon do anything different to before. He doesn‘t brake any earlier than on any of the previous laps and he doesn‘t take a different line. He doesn’t steer to take space away from Hamilton, either. The only thing that‘s different is Hamilton‘s lunge, which comes just as Ocon lifts off the throttle going under the TAG Heuer sign. By that point, Ocon’s committed to his line into T1 as Hamilton rapidly comes up to his right rear tyre, seeking space with his massive overspeed where there obviously isn‘t going to be any.

I don‘t see that as a penalty-worthy action from Ocon at all.

(As a sidenote, I feel the debate around this incident here and elsewhere would have greatly benefitted from either the availability of Hamilton’s or Ocon‘s forward-facing camera. Alas…)


Ocon doesn't get to just do "nothing different to previous laps" once Hamilton gets alongside.

#36 PitViperRacing

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:17

Another link here of the video which is actually working:

https://twitter.com/...Q1FcTfjD5QqRIQQ

Looks dodgy from Ocon to me.


I'm going to give benefit of the doubt and assume that he tried to shut the door on an inside move, but made it too late.

Clear penalty though, lucky it was only 5 seconds tbh

#37 TheFish

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:17

I genuinely can‘t tell if I‘m seeing something different to everyone else here… what it looks like to me is:

Ocon uses his normal racing line and brake marker on the approach to T1. Literally no different to his previous laps, judging by F1TV.

Hamilton goes for a lunge just as the gap between Ocon‘s car and the barrier starts to reach towards its narrowest point due to the angle of the right-hand side of the pit exit coming towards Ocon‘s racing line.

In no way does Ocon do anything different to before. He doesn‘t brake any earlier than on any of the previous laps and he doesn‘t take a different line. He doesn’t steer to take space away from Hamilton, either. The only thing that‘s different is Hamilton‘s lunge, which comes just as Ocon lifts off the throttle going under the TAG Heuer sign. By that point, Ocon’s committed to his line into T1 as Hamilton rapidly comes up to his right rear tyre, seeking space with his massive overspeed where there obviously isn‘t going to be any.

I don‘t see that as a penalty-worthy action from Ocon at all.

(As a sidenote, I feel the debate around this incident here and elsewhere would have greatly benefitted from either the availability of Hamilton’s or Ocon‘s forward-facing camera. Alas…)


You aren’t allowed to drive the same line if someone is next to you compared to when you’re alone. Pretty standard stuff really.

#38 TheFish

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:19

Another link here of the video which is actually working:

https://twitter.com/...Q1FcTfjD5QqRIQQ

Looks dodgy from Ocon to me.


Yeah that’s pretty damning. Should be grateful it’s only 5 seconds but I guess the new rules of engagement are cool with behaviour like this.

#39 GentlemanDriver091

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:20

You aren’t allowed to drive the same line if someone is next to you compared to when you’re alone. Pretty standard stuff really.

Stroll does, though 😉

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#40 Clrnc

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:25

Ok that might be dodgy.

If it's for the overtake then Ocon didn't deserve a pen

#41 ANF

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:35

Another link here of the video which is actually working:

https://twitter.com/...Q1FcTfjD5QqRIQQ

Looks dodgy from Ocon to me.

Are you sure that's the incident he was penalised for? There was another contact between them at Sainte-Dévote, the one that was shown on TV, where Hamilton was further alongside and Ocon turned in on him without leaving enough room...

Edited by ANF, 29 May 2022 - 21:35.


#42 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:43

The incident in the replay is not penalty worthy.
It’s identical to Lewis and Max in 2019 exiting the tunnel. The car behind making a half committed lunge

I hope Ocom got a penalty for another incident

#43 SuperMax

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:54

Slam dunk penalty for the one where Ocon squeezes Lewis into the wall. The one at St. Devote seems to me a racing incident.

#44 Silberpfeil

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 21:56

You aren’t allowed to drive the same line if someone is next to you compared to when you’re alone. Pretty standard stuff really.

Ocon was ”alone“ well into his T1 approach, though. Hamilton just tries to force his way into a gap that is always going to close up by the time he actually gets his front wing – never even a wheel – very briefly alongside Ocon‘s car. Between Ocon driving in a straight line towards T1 and the pit exit wall coming in towards him from the other side like a pincer, that was the worst possible time and location for Hamilton to try a move.

If Hamilton had been halfway along or been alongside longer, I‘d say that‘s Ocon‘s fault any day of the week. But with the way things played out here, with Hamilton coming along very late and with barely any overlap between the cars, I don‘t see it that way.

Edited by Silberpfeil, 29 May 2022 - 21:56.


#45 Autodromo

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 22:06

Probably either of them could be penalized.  In the first one Lewis was substantially alongside so you should leave room, and in the second he wasn't so egregious as it was dangerous.



#46 Gambelli

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 00:45

Agree too, the semi overtake is not worth a penalty, the wall squeeze was, so if it's that one, fair call, Lewis couldn't have avoided being pinched there.  Ocon has history with that and needs to tidy it up a little when defending that sort of move



#47 CoolBreeze

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Posted 30 May 2022 - 02:11

It's pretty shocking, considering it was a clumsy move (not the 1st) time from Hamilton. Overall the stewards decisions in Monaco was horrible. 



#48 chrcol

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 15:59

It's pretty shocking, considering it was a clumsy move (not the 1st) time from Hamilton. Overall the stewards decisions in Monaco was horrible. 

Lead driver gives room as he should everyone applauds the overtake.

Lead driver turns in on driver, its a clumsy attempt.

 

Hope that explains why there is rules that both drivers are expected to adhere to, he turned into another car.



#49 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 16:22

Lead driver gives room as he should everyone applauds the overtake.

Lead driver turns in on driver, its a clumsy attempt.

 

Hope that explains why there is rules that both drivers are expected to adhere to, he turned into another car.

lead driver gives room for what? he hit his rear tyre

that move was not a committed move from Lewis. He backed out of it too late



#50 Clrnc

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Posted 31 May 2022 - 16:27

It does actually seem like Ocon got penalised for the turning in incident reading all the interviews and reports which is shocking