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Ferrari protest RBR drivers @Monaco 2022 [split]


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#1 Shade

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:44

New Document: Summons - Car 11 (Perez) - Alleged failing to stay right of the yellow line at pit exit Published at 29.05.22 19:39 CET

 

New Document: Summons - Car 1 (Verstappen)- Alleged failing to stay right of the yellow line at pit exit Published at 29.05.22 19:39 CET


Edited by Shade, 29 May 2022 - 18:28.


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#2 prty

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:46

Race might not be over yet.

 

 

https://twitter.com/...968222568263691

 

Will Sainz's first win be like Sainz's first podium then? :lol:



#3 Massa

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:47

Binotto said the note specify that you have to be on the right side of the line.

So if that's true, no way Perez and Verstappen are not penalised



Both Williams killed Ferrari, instead of a 1-3 it was a 2-4 because both drivers blocked Sainz and Leclerc.

Edited by Massa, 29 May 2022 - 17:48.


#4 GTR

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:47

New Document: Summons - Car 11 (Perez) - Alleged failing to stay right of the yellow line at pit exit Published at 29.05.22 19:39 CET

New Document: Summons - Car 1 (Verstappen)- Alleged failing to stay right of the yellow line at pit exit Published at 29.05.22 19:39 CET

Penalties or not, these should really be decided during the race. Did the stewards have bad visions or what?

#5 FortiFord

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:51

Penalties or not, these should really be decided during the race. Did the stewards have bad visions or what?

 

I believe the RD has to refer the incidents to the stewards first, and this never happened. 

 

RD had a mare. 



#6 Deeq

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:52

Penalties or not, these should really be decided during the race. Did the stewards have bad visions or what?

Its FiA, federation of incompetents and asswholes.

#7 SophieB

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:52

I believe the RD has to refer the incidents to the stewards first, and this never happened. 

 

RD had a mare. 

The stewards can investigate whatever they see fit, can’t they?



#8 WindmillRacer

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:52

There was minimal contact with the line and Max was correcting the sliding rears. Giving the wet condotions I don't expect much to come out of it. Anyway: these things should be directly taken care of by Race Control during the race and not decided hours later behind a green table.

It was als not noted during the race in case of Max. Rules are now more followed to the spirit of the law, seen several examples during the first 6 races. Otherwise it should have rained penalties this weekend for impeding, track limits etc. I think the outcome won't change. It's not that Max impeded LeClerc or something; he was clearly ahead IMO.

 

It's Ferrari who lodged the complaints.

 

"In relation to the two Protests lodged by Scuderia Ferrari against Car 1 and Car 11 for allegedly failing to stay to the right of the yellow line at pit exit."

 

They have the right to try it, but is not slam dunk as others here suggested.


Edited by WindmillRacer, 29 May 2022 - 17:58.


#9 Gareth

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:52

I believe the RD has to refer the incidents to the stewards first, and this never happened.

RD had a mare.

The Perez one came up as ‘noted’ iirc (whatever the heck that means!).

#10 GTR

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:53

Watching Max's onboard, though not definite, it looked highly likely his front left touched and crossed over the line.
Watching Charles' onboard, I'm not sure because it was too blurry.
The point here IMO is (1) whether the FIA have more angles than the above onboards and (2) whether the FIA decide that a brief touch and cross over the line would make a penalty or not.


Well it seems both front and rear left in this picture:

48-D0-FB9-C-3-A7-E-4826-8-FF2-70-B2423-A

#11 jpm2019

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:54

Well it seems both front and rear left in this picture:

48-D0-FB9-C-3-A7-E-4826-8-FF2-70-B2423-A

In this picture max his rear wheel is already where the line stopped.



#12 GTR

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:56

And where was Ferrari to mention it? Probably asleep, or maybe too tired from 2 pitstops in 4 laps.


Teams cannot call RD anymore after the farce named Abu Dhabi last year?

#13 Deeq

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:56

I doubt they will change the result now. I imagine they will say something like "Car 1 and car 11 did touch the yellow line on pit exit momentarily, but given the slippery conditions and the fact that they gained no advantage, no penalty will be applied in this case".

In Brazill 2003 they changed the result a week latter!
If Its an infringment and a protest lodged they have to change!

#14 FortiFord

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:57

The stewards can investigate whatever they see fit, can’t they?

 

I'm not 100% sure either way. Based on the below link it seems the RD refers incidents to the stewards, but i'm not sure if the stewards can investigate something which was not referred to them. It's possible that they could. 

 

https://www.thefocus...stewards-in-f1/



#15 SenorSjon

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:58

Well it seems both front and rear left in this picture:

48-D0-FB9-C-3-A7-E-4826-8-FF2-70-B2423-A

The line ends there at the rear tire.

If we retrospectively give the top 4 5 seconds for each of their infringments this weekend, it stays the same.

#16 Hellenic tifosi

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 17:58

Teams cannot call RD anymore after the farce named Abu Dhabi last year?

 

Team bosses can't speak directly to him, but they can bring stuff to RC attention. Anyway, it was a total disaster from Ferrari.



#17 Garagista

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:01

I hope Ferrari doesn't end up winning this.

This has to be a moment of change in the team, and not be saved by a detail. The strategy and engineer communication were too bad to let it go without any pain!!

#18 Myrvold

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:02

I'm not 100% sure either way. Based on the below link it seems the RD refers incidents to the stewards, but i'm not sure if the stewards can investigate something which was not referred to them. It's possible that they could.

https://www.thefocus...stewards-in-f1/


The stewards can investigate whatever they see and want.

#19 OneAndOnly

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:03

The line ends there at the rear tire.

If we retrospectively give the top 4 5 seconds for each of their infringments this weekend, it stays the same.

So he slid lateraly to the left in 90 degree fashion immediately after the line? I'd like to see that happening.
 



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#20 GTR

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:03

Team bosses can't speak directly to him, but they can bring stuff to RC attention. Anyway, it was a total disaster from Ferrari.


Yeah it was rubbish really...

#21 SophieB

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:04

Not a fan of races being decided long after the podium where it can be avoided. I don’t see why this couldn’t have been looked into during the race. It is also puzzling they noted the Perez incident but I don’t think gave any update to it, now he’s been summoned? Seems a mess.



#22 MaroF1

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:04

https://twitter.com/...0ddTKLRhxQ&s=19

Checo's onboard.

#23 Myrvold

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:04

This is very easy.
Crossed the line? Penalty
Didn't cross? No penalty.

#24 w1Y

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:05

The penalties may be justified but at the end of the day. Red Bull outmanaged Ferrari and at a track where ferrari clearly should have had a 1-2.

Although the way this season is going Ferrari needs every point they can get. If they get 1-2 because of this it just allows the fight to be a bit closer.

Seeing the videos maxs is worse from what I can tell. Both bordering. I can't see these.being penalised.

Edited by w1Y, 29 May 2022 - 18:06.


#25 MoP

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:05

Not a fan of races being decided long after the podium where it can be avoided. I don’t see why this couldn’t have been looked into during the race. It is also puzzling they noted the Perez incident but I don’t think gave any update to it, now he’s been summoned? Seems a mess.

FIA in a nutshell



#26 Myrvold

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:05

https://twitter.com/...0ddTKLRhxQ&s=19

Checo's onboard.


Verstappen looks closer to crossing it on his onboard I think.

#27 Claudius

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:06

It looked like Max crossed the line, I noticed that during the race. Was surprised it wasn’t investigated.

#28 GTR

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:06

So he slid lateraly to the left in 90 degree fashion immediately after the line? I'd like to see that happening.


+1 this.

I don't think in the picture the line ends right after the rear tyre, and even if it does, the rear tyre cannot be there without crossing the line before.

#29 FortiFord

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:06

I think it will be a reprimand (just like Norris at Sochi last year). They will take the conditions into account. 



#30 SilverArrow31

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:07

Verstappen looks closer to crossing it on his onboard I think.


Verstappen did cross it... I don't see how that can be argued, Perez is damn close and lucky if he didn't

Edited by SilverArrow31, 29 May 2022 - 18:09.


#31 FortiFord

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:07

This is very easy.
Crossed the line? Penalty
Didn't cross? No penalty.

 

You would think so! But this is the FIA...



#32 Deeq

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:07

I hope Ferrari doesn't end up winning this.

This has to be a moment of change in the team, and not be saved by a detail. The strategy and engineer communication were too bad to let it go without any pain!!

I am two minds on this..I agree they have to have "pain" from their ****ups..but Leclerc & Sainz should not suffer for this specially since the RBR duos "missfortune" is selfinflicted!

Edited by Deeq, 29 May 2022 - 18:08.


#33 Leibowitz

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:08

They are not going to take away Perez’s victory when it’s that close. Needs to be a lot clearer breach. Verstappen’s situation on the other hand is more complicated.

#34 OneAndOnly

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:09

I'd say he didn't touch the line with his front left, but it does look damn close. But there has to be footage from track side where it can be seen.



#35 AlexPrime

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:09

When can we expect a verdict?



#36 pacificquay

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:10

Everyone who watched the race saw Perez win. 
 

If I’m Sainz I don’t want to get my first win hours later.



#37 Hellenic tifosi

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:10

Perez probably didn't cross, but Max looks like he did with both front and rear tyres.

#38 MoP

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:10

Now we will wait approximately 15 hours for a verdict as is standard OP....



#39 RekF1

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:10

There was minimal contact with the line and Max was correcting the sliding rears. Giving the wet condotions I don't expect much to come out of it. Anyway: these things should be directly taken care of by Race Control during the race and not decided hours later behind a green table.
It was als not noted during the race in case of Max. Rules are now more followed to the spirit of the law, seen several examples during the first 6 races. Otherwise it should have rained penalties this weekend for impeding, track limits etc. I think the outcome won't change. It's not that Max impeded LeClerc or something; he was clearly ahead IMO.
 
It's Ferrari who lodged the complaints.
 
"In relation to the two Protests lodged by Scuderia Ferrari against Car 1 and Car 11 for allegedly failing to stay to the right of the yellow line at pit exit."
 
They have the right to try it, but is not slam dunk as others here suggested.


If everybody else complied then it's worthy of a penalty. Max has some form in that respect. Didn't he do it twice in the same race a couple of years back?

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#40 MaroF1

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:11

It doesn't matter if it's close or not in my opinion, other 18 drivers didnt cross the line, and only RB drivers did, and by the rules they deserve a penalty. It isnt the same situation as Norris in Sochi cause he was on a heavy wet track with slicks (and that was pit entrance as well which they are more lenient afaik).

Edited by MaroF1, 29 May 2022 - 18:14.


#41 Okyo

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:11

Funny enough, if it's a bare minimum actual penalty (+5 secs), it's a Ferrari 1-2. Seeing the stakes are so high, it's not gonna happen, because the stewards will say:

"but, but, the champagne and, and, and the cheerful songs played already. no, no, no"


Edited by Okyo, 29 May 2022 - 18:13.


#42 timmy bolt

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:11

https://twitter.com/...0ddTKLRhxQ&s=19

Checo's onboard.


Max crossed the line more than checo then by the looks of things.

#43 scheivlak

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:12

In Brazill 2003 they changed the result a week latter!
 

That was a completely different thing. Not related to a steward's decision but to an objective look at the exact moment the race leader started the previous lap.



#44 andrewf1

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:12

Verstappen did cross it... I don't see how that can be argued, Perez is damn close and lucky if he didn't

 

Which means Perez will get a penalty and Verstappen won't.



#45 P123

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:12

This is very easy.
Crossed the line? Penalty
Didn't cross? No penalty.

 

Touching the line is also a penalty.



#46 thegamer23

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:13

No way there's going to be a penalty..
Ferrari should protest against their own strategists.

And against those brain-dead Williams drivers who held them behind a full lap despite the Blue Flags.



#47 Baddoer

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:13

Reprimand and fine.



#48 w1Y

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:14

It's no5 but if those are thr rules then it should no matter who it is

#49 AlexPrime

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:14

Funny enough, if it's a bare minimum actual penalty (+5 secs), it's a Ferrari 1-2. Seeing the stakes are so high, it's not gonna happen, because the stewards will say:

"but, but, the champagne and, and, and the cheerful songs played already. no, no, no"

more likely 2-3, as only Max was is clear violation. 



#50 GentlemanDriver091

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Posted 29 May 2022 - 18:14

It doesn't matter if it's close or not in my opinion, other 18 drivers didnt cross the line, and only RB drivers did, and by the rules they deserve a penalty. It isnt the same opinion as Norris in Sochi cause he was on a heavy wet track with slicks (and that was pit entrance as well which they are more lenient afaik).

Did you check all the drivers? I didn’t even see footage of Verstappen yet. Only footage posted was Perez and it wasn’t even visible if he was touching the line or not.

Since it was a wet track I would be hugely surprised if there will be penalties.