6 replies to this topic

[Bob Riebe]

https://www.corral.n...-block.2498544/

 

This is an interesting discussion on the history of the canted-valve small block Ford engine.

 

 

 

 

 

[Fat Boy]

I think I've got an old Ford Performance catalog with that thing (or something very close) in it.

[Lee Nicolle]

Clearly not a road car engine. So a Boss type engine using Clevo heads on a Windsor. It has been done for 50 years. 

That block is more substansial it appears than OEM ones. 

I am currently building an 8.2 deck 345ci Windsor using made for Windsor CHI 3V heads. But otherwise all Cleveland design.

Using a late 90s 5 litre block which are tiny and a bit fragile. But unlike 351 W, C, M blocks is a LOT lighter and less bulky. And are better oiled and cooled. Build them carefully however and they are solid for the short races I do. The car using the W block, alloy heads and now an alloy bellhousing will be over 200 lbs lighter, than the iron headed Clevo I was using.

[Fat Boy]

Is that on a 4-bolt bottom end or 2, Lee? I'm pretty sure all the old Trans Am cars over here used the short deck height, but with a motorsports block which had a pretty stout bottom end.

[Bob Riebe]

All competition Ford engine blocks had four bolt mains, 8.2 decks.  The first Tunnel Port and early Boss 302 blocks were actually 289 blocks that had not been used.

Gurney and other factory Ford racers got the first prototype tall deck what were later called 351 Windsor style blocks both alloy and ferrous.

Unlike Chevy (GM)  where the special blocks/heads were black ops units, not suits approved; Ford was trying this, that and the other thing. Too many chefs and not enough cooks.

 

The Aussies got and used the Cleveland blocks after Henry Ford purged Ford USA of Knudsen influence.

Edited by Bob Riebe, 29 June 2022 - 22:32.

[Lee Nicolle]

Is that on a 4-bolt bottom end or 2, Lee? I'm pretty sure all the old Trans Am cars over here used the short deck height, but with a motorsports block which had a pretty stout bottom end.

Factory 5 litre roller cam block so 2 bolt. Using grout to about half way up the welch plugs and a steel main girdle. Category is for production blocks only. And yes it will be a little fragile though I know others have used them very hard and they have lived. But very carefull build required.

Currently aftermarket blocks are unavailable. Though a 363 with the bigger bores would be nice,, but another $5k dearer

[Lee Nicolle]

All competition Ford engine blocks had four bolt mains, 8.2 decks.  The first Tunnel Port and early Boss 302 blocks were actually 289 blocks that had not been used.

Gurney and other factory Ford racers got the first prototype tall deck what were later called 351 Windsor style blocks both alloy and ferrous.

Unlike Chevy (GM)  where the special blocks/heads were black ops units, not suits approved; Ford was trying this, that and the other thing. Too many chefs and not enough cooks.

 

The Aussies got and used the Cleveland blocks after Henry Ford purged Ford USA of Knudsen influence.

289 and 302 are nomianlly the same block. Typical Ford changing crank and rods.

The 60s roadcar blocks were super fragile,, the later engines are better metalurgy in all respects and very well finished.

351 tall deck blocks are heavier as is the 3" main crank which does nothing for high rpm oiling. Otherwise though the modern blocks are similar. Ford had 40 years to get them very good.

Yes us Aussies got stuck with the Clevo lump, they go ok but are bloody heavy. Poorly oiled, poorly cooled and have heads that are way too big for air velocity. My estimations that I will be around 200lb lighter with the alloy head 8.2 engine as well as an alloy bellhousing too.

Windsors have far better oiling and cooling is better too. Thogh not a Chev!!