576 replies to this topic

[Tiakumosan]

Do we know if vips will be able to race with the suspension from Red Bull?

Edited by Tiakumosan, 21 June 2022 - 19:19.

[Muppetmad]

I dare say that'll be Vips' season done. Given the way it was going anyway, that's probably for the best all around.

[messy]

What a complete idiot this guy is. Well deserved if that’s his season - and career at this level - over.

[Heyli]

On the one hand it's good that they react quickly. On the other hand, I dont know if this is really a career ending offense...

 

I havent seen the context, so maybe it's a lot worse than I now think it is...

 

It's definitely an idiotic action though.

[Anja]

On the other hand, I dont know if this is really a career ending offense...

 

Some part of me does feel like it's harsh and a bit of an overreaction. But to rehash arguments from the Larson situation - people don't just accidentally say words like that completely out of nowhere. If it's not part of your vocabulary, not even the most extreme "heated gamer moment" will make you say it. It points to him using it on more regular basis.

Edited by Anja, 21 June 2022 - 19:57.

[Heyli]

Some part of me does feel like it's harsh and a bit of an overreaction. But to rehash arguments from the Larson situation - people don't just accidentally say words like that completely out of nowhere. If it's not part of your vocabulary, not even the most extreme "heated gamer moment" will make you say it. It points to him using it on more regular basis.

I think the main issue that I have with that word is that it doesnt seem to be a problem when other people are saying it. It's a word regularly used in many comedy routines for example. I still think that's weird, but that is probably more for the paddock club...

 

Again, it's still a stupid thing to say and I havent seen the context, so maybe it's a lot worse than I currently imagine it.

[SenorSjon]

I wonder if this would have happened if he was leading the championship. I find it overreacting considering the poison they sell.

[Frood]

No sympathy. It isn't difficult to just not say that stuff.

[Viryfan]

I guess Isack Hadjar is waiting a call from Helmut now.

[Myrvold]

Some part of me does feel like it's harsh and a bit of an overreaction. But to rehash arguments from the Larson situation - people don't just accidentally say words like that completely out of nowhere. If it's not part of your vocabulary, not even the most extreme "heated gamer moment" will make you say it. It points to him using it on more regular basis.

 

It's a bit like when people get angry or hurt themselves and shouts out "f'ing" fag. And not meaning the english slang for cigarette... They may not fully mean it badly, but at the same time. That's the go-to word when you get angry and want to "hurt" someone. It's the same with the n-word. If you are angry, and you want to call someone something, and due to the anger, you want it to be bad, and then use the n-word... It says something.

[Disgrace]

At least his results this year might salvage his F1 chanc... oooooh.

[Teleriel]

Vips going full Ticktum is not exactly what I'd hoped from the kid, really... 

[SophieB]

 

[Frood]

Vips going full Ticktum is not exactly what I'd hoped from the kid, really... 

 

To give the tiniest amount of credit to Ticktum: despite all of his engage-mouth-before-brain moments, as well as getting himself fired for saying something silly on a gaming stream... even he has managed to clear the incredibly low bar of not openly saying a racial slur!

Edited by Frood, 21 June 2022 - 20:41.

[Disgrace]

Vips going full Ticktum is not exactly what I'd hoped from the kid, really... 

 

A phrase I thought I would never say: that's unfair on Ticktum. He has at least successfully managed to avoid using racist slurs in public.

[Teleriel]

Fair points both, much as his behaviour was pretty bad, he did avoid outright racism... Perhaps "Full Larson" is a better comparison... 

[JimmyClark]

I do kind of sympathise with young people for slipping it out in the heat of the moment when it is used in slang context in so many songs and other forms of pop culture and social media. The amount of memes I see online with the version ending in 'a' that seem to be acceptable is quite perplexing; if we want to eradicate usage of the word from the language, it needs to be gone from everywhere.

But he should know the sensitivities around the word and avoid using it, so it is a bit stupid.

[Gambelli]

I do kind of sympathise with young people for slipping it out in the heat of the moment when it is used in slang context in so many songs and other forms of pop culture and social media. The amount of memes I see online with the version ending in 'a' that seem to be acceptable is quite perplexing; if we want to eradicate usage of the word from the language, it needs to be gone from everywhere.

But he should know the sensitivities around the word and avoid using it, so it is a bit stupid.

 

I agree with what you're saying, it's the hypocrisy of racism, the old "'WE' can call ourselves that, but YOU can't". Do you want the word gone or not?  If so, get rid of it and stop being racist yourselves.  BUT, on the other hand, we all know it's just a place you can't go, I don't say it, not in private, not amongst close friends, not in jest, and certainly not whilst being broadcast.  It shouldn't be part of your vocabulary or mindset to say this.

 

Is it career defining/ending - nope, not if you're that good that you can't be denied.  But if you're maybe starting to show that you're not quite at the level of where your bosses want you, and you keep making silly mistakes, maybe it opens the door to making a tough decision about your future easier....

[Heyli]

Fair points both, much as his behaviour was pretty bad, he did avoid outright racism... Perhaps "Full Larson" is a better comparison... 

Pretty bad...?

 

He committed I think one of the worst commenses someone could think of in motor racing. That is not "pretty bad". It's very difficult to compare both incidents, but if they terminate the contract with Vips over this, then I do think it's very weird they kept Ticktum on the team...

[ARTGP]

Would Gasly get the call up if RB actually need to use their reserve driver? 

[Whitelightning]

Have Redbull got a problem with this? I believe it’s not the first time suspensions have been made for racism.

I know it’s not condoned at all and Redbull take immediate action, Sparky confirmed this to me. But what I’m saying is it does seem to be Redbull that keep having this issue and also on social media with various Redbull linked accounts.

All they can do is suspend them, apologise.

[FirstnameLastname]

https://twitter.com/...rakNt8qppZZpi1Q

Lawson giggling away at the comment on the same stream

[flyboym3]

Have Redbull got a problem with this? I believe it’s not the first time suspensions have been made for racism.

I know it’s not condoned at all and Redbull take immediate action, Sparky confirmed this to me. But what I’m saying is it does seem to be Redbull that keep having this issue and also on social media with various Redbull linked accounts.

All they can do is suspend them, apologise.

Yeah they had to sack someone from F1 team last year too.

 

Rot starts from the top IMO and character assasinations only encourage it.

 

I think RBR have been trying to turn the tide on it, its not lost on me that they now have a pitcrew member with dreadlocks and you'd never see a person of colour at RBR prior to that.

Edited by flyboym3, 21 June 2022 - 21:22.

[P123]

https://twitter.com/...rakNt8qppZZpi1Q

Lawson giggling away at the comment on the same stream

I'm surprised their teams allow them to live stream these things. Vips over-stepped the mark, and generally, Lando included, they all come across as total berks. Silly giggling wee boys.

[P123]

Yeah they had to sack someone from F1 team last year too.

 

Rot starts from the top IMO and character assasinations only encourage it.

 

I think RBR have been trying to turn the tide on it, its not lost on me that they now have a pitcrew member with dreadlocks and you'd never see a person of colour at RBR prior to that.

 

No fan of Red Bull, but I think the assumption you made in your final sentence is possibly false.. to put it mildly!

[pacificquay]

Career over and rightly so.

[se7en_24]

I'm surprised their teams allow them to live stream these things. Vips over-stepped the mark, and generally, Lando included, they all come across as total berks. Silly giggling wee boys.

I'm definitely not going to defend Vips, but in the case of other F1 streamers like Lando, my response to you would be "OK Boomer". 

[milestone 11]

I'm surprised their teams allow them to live stream these things. Vips over-stepped the mark, and generally, Lando included, they all come across as total berks. Silly giggling wee boys.

Yep, doesn't say much for their collective intellect. Pathetic.

[Risil]

How depressing.

[Scaboo22]

Extremely dumb and disappointing. Not only do you use that word, but you use it WHILE STREAMING to the world, and you laugh after - probably at your own stupidity. These are kids who thought they were joking around, but at 21 years old you really really should know better by now. Probably the end of his career, just because you can't play a damn videogame without using a racial slur. The mind boggles. 

[FirstnameLastname]

I'm definitely not going to defend Vips, but in the case of other F1 streamers like Lando, my response to you would be "OK Boomer".

To be fair - I’ve been expecting one of the streaming lot to end up in hot water at some point. This episode might keep the rest in check and double think everything they do online.

My memory fails me but I’m sure there was already some moments with the F1 lot talking **** about their team or another driver… I’m thinking Russell on a stream and Latifi being mentioned in less than favourable terms.

[Cliff]

Yeah they had to sack someone from F1 team last year too.

Rot starts from the top IMO and character assasinations only encourage it.

I think RBR have been trying to turn the tide on it, its not lost on me that they now have a pitcrew member with dreadlocks and you'd never see a person of colour at RBR prior to that.

He’s been with the team since at least 2016…

[noikeee]

In this thread, people find out that 21yo racing drivers are sometimes cocky, pratty tw*ts, and that people from Eastern Europe are sometimes far too quick by 2022 Western standards to drop out racist slurs like it's nothing...

Sit him out for a race or two so he can understand that this is serious, and that some crap you just can't say, never ever ever, (like, ffs, even putting aside whether he's racist or not, this shows he skipped the PR training classes - which are crucial when you're on the brink of F1), but I don't think it should be career over... There's a GT car or a Porsche Cup car awaiting for him.

Also I hate the Internet and I think we should un-invent it. I suspect a lot of people wouldn't have made it to F1 in the past if we had streaming in the 70s or 80s... Even for the standards of the time. This kind of constant exposure will eventually reveal that, actually, some of our heroes are privately utter assholes... Do we want to know that? Is the world better off with that knowledge? It's a fascinating question that I don't think has an easy answer.

Edited by noikeee, 21 June 2022 - 21:55.

[jjcale]

As the only person in this thread so far who has the right to feel directly offended by the N word (as opposed to taking offence on other people's behalf) ... these things are blown way out of proportion and I hope he can learn from this experience (to engage brain first, then mouth - as we live in a very PC world ... and rightly so to some extent) and then be able to move on with his career.

 

I only care about their driving, really... I dont look on them as role models etc, and sure as hell dont want to know their opinions on the environment and climate change. 

 

I doubt he is some kind of virulent, out and out racist (as in today's world those are few and far between) ....and even if he is, its just a word a the end of the day. We dont know what smarter people (who know to keep their mouths shut) have deep in their hearts and what really motivates their decisions so at the end of the day, I look at this kid as being young and stupid more than anything else. He has not harmed anyone other other than himself.

 

Had he abused a person with whom he was interacting, I would probably have a different view ... but he didnt - he was laughing with his mates and stupidly forgot the world was watching.  

Edited by SophieB, 22 June 2022 - 08:55.

[andyscoot]

To be fair - I’ve been expecting one of the streaming lot to end up in hot water at some point. This episode might keep the rest in check and double think everything they do online.

My memory fails me but I’m sure there was already some moments with the F1 lot talking **** about their team or another driver… I’m thinking Russell on a stream and Latifi being mentioned in less than favourable terms.

Unless there's a separate incident it was Dan Ticktum who was dropped by Williams over it.

[Topsu]

Well, he was turning out to be a fraud anyway... I just can't fathom how anyone can use n-word as an insult? Something is fundamentally wrong in their upbringing.

[FirstnameLastname]

Unless there's a separate incident it was Dan Ticktum who was dropped by Williams over it.

Ahh, that was the one

Yeah - dumb young fellas doing their ‘bantz’ online without realising how it will look in the cold light of day.

Won’t be the first. Won’t be the last

[jonpollak]

Doesn’t Hendrick have a seat for these type of people ?
Jp

[thefinalapex]

Yeah they had to sack someone from F1 team last year too.

 

Rot starts from the top IMO and character assasinations only encourage it.

 

I think RBR have been trying to turn the tide on it, its not lost on me that they now have a pitcrew member with dreadlocks and you'd never see a person of colour at RBR prior to that.

 

Mercedes also had to let 3 guys go after they were bullying a muslim coworker. 

[1player]

As the only person in this thread so far who has the right to feel directly offended by the N word (as opposed to taking offence on other people's behalf) ... these things are blown way out of proportion and I hope he can learn from this experience (to engage brain first, then mouth - as we live in a very PC world ... and rightly so to some extent) and then be able to move on with his career.

I only care about their driving, really... I dont look on them as role models etc, and sure as hell dont want to know their opinions on the environment and climate change.

I doubt he is some kind of virulent, out and out racist (as in today's world those are few and far between) ....and even if he is, its just a word a the end of the day. We dont know what smarter people (who know to keep their mouths shut) have deep in their hearts and what really motivates their decisions (like - lets not unlap all the cars - just the ones between Max and the black guy) .... so at the end of the day, I look at this kid as being young and stupid more than anything else. He has not harmed anyone other other than himself.

Had he abused a person with whom he was interacting, I would probably have a different view ... but he didnt - he was laughing with his mates and stupidly forgot the world was watching.

Agreed, though don't think you're the only one with African heritage round these parts.

It's incredibly immature of him, being a racist **** should have consequences, but not career ending when you're little more than a teenager with a fat bank account.

Definitely there's a lot of "white guilt" that becomes a little overzealous in punishing outdated and ignorant outbursts.

That said, as an extremely heated and passionate gamer, never have I felt the urge to utter a racist or homophobe remark, so being young doesn't justify being an intolerant prick. Sad his racing career has ended but it's not like he's gonna have to work 9-5 for a crappy paycheck like the most of us. He'll be fine.

Edited by 1player, 21 June 2022 - 22:34.

[romaincrouton]

Quick way to flush all that work down the toilet.... Personally I could care less what 20 something year old boys shout when pretending to shoot guns online, but it isn't clear that he's actually being racist at that moment despite using the slur...stupid, ignorant and tone deaf...most definitely but racist...who knows...maybe (hopefully not as I always hope those attitude slowly die out with younger people)

I wonder sometimes if the public are over reacting with stuff like this, and how much of it is just protecting the sponsors who back them. I mean Nike still uses poor black children to make their sneakers despite the Colin Kaepernick marketing right?

Not defending the guy but I hate seeing these internet pile on's against kids who probably don't deserve their careers to be thrown away because they were stupid for a few seconds online....or then again maybe he's a neo nazi

[jstrains]

I would not approve playing these shooting games at all, are nowadays kids streaming this? Horrible...

[Ross Stonefeld]

 

 

 

With that level of sincerity he'll be back in the car in no time

[J2NH]

So does the word make you a racist or is a being a racist something that is in your heart?  I lean a little more towards actions and intent when passing some kind of moral judgement.  I don't know Vips, so I don't know what his feelings are.  Red Bull made the politically correct response but over a word?  Spoken in a video game?  By a kid?  Yeah, not so sure about all of this.  Poor choice of words on his part, a lesson to be learned but a career ender?  Blanket condemnation?  Too far for me.  I know a few people, not by choice, who are racists and yet I have never heard them use that word.  Hope he learns to be more thoughtful after this and I also hope that it was truly just a slip, a word spoken without malice and he lives to drive another day.  But it's Red Bull's money so they pull the strings.  

[ClubmanGT]

1 round stand-down. Need to find a balance between doing something and doing nothing. It's not performative, it's not career-ending - worry about that level of stuff if he does it again. My guess is he won't. 

 

These are young kids growing up in abnormal circumstances, they live their lives in a bubble and they're not going to be as well-adjusted as you might expect. They're going to stuff up now and then. If Ticktum gets to keep his seat after repeated problems on the actual track, then Vips shouldn't get totally yeeted for a stupid slur. Punished, yes, but not have his career destroyed. Give him a chance to do better. 

[New Britain]

1 round stand-down. Need to find a balance between doing something and doing nothing. It's not performative, it's not career-ending - worry about that level of stuff if he does it again. My guess is he won't. 

 

These are young kids growing up in abnormal circumstances, they live their lives in a bubble and they're not going to be as well-adjusted as you might expect. They're going to stuff up now and then. If Ticktum gets to keep his seat after repeated problems on the actual track, then Vips shouldn't get totally yeeted for a stupid slur. Punished, yes, but not have his career destroyed. Give him a chance to do better. 

That is fair enough. I don't think anyone has advocated capital punishment. At the same time, this is the sort of thing that should be addressed quickly and unequivocally.

[TheFish]

Shouldn’t be long now until Horner says ‘but other people get abuse too’ based on last year.

[Ali_G]

Career over and rightly so.

Career over due to saying a word at 21?

Vips needs to be taught why he was wrong and rehabilitated. However career over would be a very over the top reaction. The guy didn’t murder anyone.

Edited by Ali_G, 22 June 2022 - 05:38.

[Rediscoveryx]

So... what did he even say?

 

I really don't like this new form of reporting - where some words are considered so sensitive that they can't even be spoken (or written down) as quotes. Not even using asterisks or some other euphemism. Instead, we are just assured that what was said was really bad and implicitly expected to be fine with their interpretation and not to ask any further questions. It's not just silly as such, it removes all context and thus all possibility for the reader to form their own opinion about where on the grey-scale the offense falls. And potentially it can be used to throw someone under the bus undeservedly.

 

Transparency used to be the one of the key concepts of journalism. It's not anymore.

[FirstnameLastname]

Doesn’t Hendrick have a seat for these type of people ?
Jp

VIPs confirmed 2023 NASCAR cup champion