878 replies to this topic

[joaoheitor]

There's an outrage in Brazil: Nelson Piquet called Hamilton 'neguinho', an extremely racist and derogatory word towards black people here.

 

The news came out in Folha de São Paulo, a major news outlet here: Nelson Piquet comenta manobra de Lewis Hamilton e usa termo racista: 'Neguinho' - 26/06/2022 - Celebridades - F5 (uol.com.br)

 

[AlexS]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neguinho

 

https://en.wikipedia...guinho_do_Samba

[PlatenGlass]

Here is an English article - https://thesportsrus...verstone-crash/

 

Edit - Relevant bit:

 

“The little black guy put the car in and didn’t let [the other driver swerve]”, says Piquet about the episode that occurred in 2021 with Max Verstappen at Silverstone.

Edited by PlatenGlass, 26 June 2022 - 20:56.

[P123]

Piquet would be the first guy I would expect even if this was reported as mere gossip.     The Red Bull / Verstappen clan routinely briefed against Hamilton last season, particularly Jos and Marko.  There was a lot of animosity flowing there.  Nelson is part of that little club due to his daughter and bit of a mouth, so no surprise he couldn't keep a lid on it.

[Nemo1965]

Ironic. I just posted in the unpopular opinion thread that Piquet in the past said many things that would have made him lose his drive if there had been social media back then (and the furore that comes with it). Remember he insulted Mansell’s wife and insinuated things about Senna being a covert homosexual. I’m not surprised. By the way: Jos has done many stupid things, but I never heard him say deragatory things about entnicity… so need to drag him in.

Edit: I would like to hear from some Brazilians about the use of the word Piquet used. Is it taken as deragatory as described above?

Edited by Nemo1965, 26 June 2022 - 21:04.

[se7en_24]

Remember his comments about Mansell's wife as well.

 

He's certainly in the right team, who welcome Jos Verstappen regularly despite his previous indiscretions. 

Edited by se7en_24, 26 June 2022 - 21:03.

[Collombin]

Remember his comments about Mansell's wife as well.

And the mocking of Carlos Reutemann in the aftermath of the ultimately fatal incident with the mechanic at Zolder.

[H0R]

Even if he failed to insult JP Piquet is one of the vilest characters in the history of F1.

 

#justiceforeliseo

[lewislorenzo]

These disgusting comments are piling up. Very depressing😞

[macjim]

Colour me surprised, he’s always been a bit of a ****.

[William Hunt]

.... Piquet is one of the vilest characters in the history of F1.

 

Not even by a mile. Not even close. The things Nelson said in the '80s can be best classified as 'stupid macho talk' (about Senna being gay etc..., he wasn't the only one saying that btw, he was just so stupid to say that to a journalist). What he said now is blatant disgusting racism if he did say it that way though.

 

But Nelson vile or the vilest? No. There is only one driver who deserves that 'title' and that is Gary Brabham. Compared to him Nelson is a saint. And no I will not say why, you'll have to find that out yourself.

[chdphd]

Gary Brabham Criminal convictions

[joaoheitor]

Ironic. I just posted in the unpopular opinion thread that Piquet in the past said many things that would have made him lose his drive if there had been social media back then (and the furore that comes with it). Remember he insulted Mansell’s wife and insinuated things about Senna being a covert homosexual. I’m not surprised. By the way: Jos has done many stupid things, but I never heard him say deragatory things about entnicity… so need to drag him in.

Edit: I would like to hear from some Brazilians about the use of the word Piquet used. Is it taken as deragatory as described above?

Hi, Nemo.

 

I´m Brazilian and I´m black. 

 

NEGUINHO is the diminutive of NEGO or NEGRO (formal translation of black). The word NEGO (without the 'R') were used to refer to black people in a derogatory way by the slave hunters or by the slave owners, mainly when the slave were punished or hunted. 

 

NEGUINHO is diminutive, and it means little black, or it is used to refer to a young black man. In the past, the word were used to refer to the to ordinary people along the decades after slavery. 

 

In the XX century, the word changed its meaning to illustrate ordinary people in general, but its meaning came from the way the racist white people used to see young black men, as someone without individual identity, someone in the middle of an undistinguished crowd of black people.

 

Nowadays none uses this word to refer to black people because it is clearly derogatory and offensive. Some black artists adopted the nickname Neguinho (like Neguinho da Beija Flor, a great samba singer!) just to defying the depreciatory nature of its original historical meaning, exactly in the sense that black people uses the 'N' word between themselves.

 

In this case, Piquet used the word TWICE. He clearly wants to be clear to his interlocutor and to aggrieve certain audience.

 

It was painfully racist for me. I grew up seeing my father, a black man, watching and rooting for Piquet on some Sunday mornings.

 

I'm still in disbelief.

Edited by joaoheitor, 26 June 2022 - 23:23.

[AlexS]

It depends on context. "inho" in Portuguese is a diminuitive, it can be seen in a negative way as diminishing the person, or as a positive way as caring= like he is a brother in case of persons not of same family.

 

As i posted there is a futsal player in Brasilian selection that have that nickname. 

[jjcale]

Piquet Snr was my original favourite driver ... I used to be a big fan of all things brazilian fan because of football ... and they looked a bit brown to me!

 

I now agree with the British view of Piquet ... he's an asshole. 

 

But its just a word. 

 

Of more concern to me is the fact that whenever I watch the Brazilian GP I have a hard time spotting a black face in the crowd ....even when they hosted the football WC not too many years ago, I noticed this .... something is going very wrong in Brazil. 

 

Piquet,,, I dont care about. SLH will not care either (I expect) .... and is anyone really surprised by this news?

 

 

 

 

Edit - I wonder how he feels about the fact that "the little black guy", SLH, has more than double the number of WDCs that he has ....

Edited by jjcale, 27 June 2022 - 02:11.

[TecnoRacing]

Not surprised at all - only that he was stupid enough to say it in public.

 

The man is a pig.

Edited by TecnoRacing, 27 June 2022 - 03:31.

[John B]

Plus there was the "I'm still alive" comment when asked to compare himself with Senna.

[William Hunt]

Plus there was the "I'm still alive" comment when asked to compare himself with Senna.

 

That was a bad joke but it was tongue in cheek.  Piquet  always was a bit of a (practical) joker during his F1 carreer and often he was genuinly funny (the guys working at Brabham loved him when he drove there), on other occasions he clearly misjudged the impact of his words. His comment on Mansell and his wife, he called Mansell a 'blockhead' and his wife an 'unatractive boxhead' were nasty, and about Senna he said that Ayrton 'doesn't like women'.

 

Nelson's dislike of Hamilton is obviously heavily influenced by his daughter having a relationship with Max when Max was in a title fight with Lewis. That doesn't excuse his foul language in any way off course.

Edited by William Hunt, 27 June 2022 - 05:46.

[Ragamuffin]

In all my years I've never disliked an F1 driver as a person, but for this guy I make an exception.

[absinthedude]

Back in the day I liked Piquet as a driver but his off-track antics always left me feeling he couldn't be a favourite. Now he just confirms that. Notable that when around 10 years ago there was a gathering at the Australian GP, of all surviving world champions, for a photo shoot. The only one who decided not to turn up, was Piquet. Even Jack Brabham, who was in poor health by then and going through the turmoil of Gary's conviction. showed up. Says a lot about how little Piquet gives a ****.

 

Fantastic driver. Lacking as a human. 

[Gambelli]

Gary Brabham Criminal convictions

 

Utterly disgraceful.  Not the forum for it but I just can't get my head around the light sentences dished out for this, the most vile of acts on the most innocent human beings....

 

Makes me sick to the core

[Nemo1965]

For my two Brazilian friends, thanks for the extra info. I understand that for a black Brazilian it is painful Piquet used the word and it is also interesting that a rapper and a footballer use the word as a nickname. As the French say: 'C'est la ton qui fait la musique.' 

 

Regarding Piquet: in a strange, twisted way, I feel he has made the same 'development' as Nigel Mansell. Until both came very successful, say from 1979 to 1985, I can't remember ever hearing something negative about them. I saw Nigel at a tires-test at Zandvoort in 1980 or 1982 (my uncle had managed to sneak me in, on several occasions) and though I did not speak to him, I saw him interact with several journalists and autograph-hunters, and he was the nicest, humblest guy you can imagine. Not long after that, after he signed for Williams, he was interviewed extensively by Grand Prix International and again he came forward as the nicest, most humblest guy you can imagine. Then, a couple of years later, he was a Donald Trump for F1 avant la letrre, but then without the racist part...always lying, always self-aggrandizing, with a persecution complex on top.

 

Then Piquet. He was very popular with journalists, people like Murray Walker and James Hunt never said something negative about him. Like Mansell, he was called modest, down to earth, friendly. Then, after his first or second world-title, either he changed or his image changed. So for me as a (former) journalist, it is interesting: did journalists close their eyes for a while and then opened them? Or did these drivers themselves stop guarding their personality?

Edited by Nemo1965, 27 June 2022 - 07:07.

[Henri Greuter]

For my two Brazilian friends, thanks for the extra info. I understand that for a black Brazilian it is painful Piquet used the word and it is also interesting that a rapper and a footballer use the word as a nickname. As the French say: 'C'est la ton qui fait la musique.' 

 

Regarding Piquet: in a strange, twisted way, I feel he has made the same 'development' as Nigel Mansell. Until both came very successful, say from 1979 to 1985, I can't remember ever hearing something negative about them. I saw Nigel at a tires-test at Zandvoort in 1980 or 1982 (my uncle had managed to sneak me in, on several occasions) and though I did not speak to him, I saw him interact with several journalists and autograph-hunters, and he was the nicest, humblest guy you can imagine. Not long after that, after he signed for Williams, he was interviewed extensively by Grand Prix International and again he came forward as the nicest, most humblest guy you can imagine. Then, a couple of years later, he was a Donald Trump for F1 avant la letrre, but then without the racist part...always lying, always self-aggrandizing, with a persecution complex on top.

 

Then Piquet. He was very popular with journalists, people like Murray Walker and James Hunt never said something negative about him. Like Mansell, he was called modest, down to earth, friendly. Then, after his first or second world-title, either he changed or his image changed. So for me as a (former) journalist, it is interesting: did journalists close their eyes for a while and then opened them? Or did these drivers themselves stop guarding their personality?

 

 

 

Remembering from reading the Pruller's, Piquet ended up with a number of Prix de Citron 's (Media Award selected by press members for the least cooperative driver, the Prix d' Orange was the opposite)......

 

 

I am not surprised about something like this happening.

 

Neither am I surprised that some over here instantly use the opportunity to drag Max' dad Jos into all of this.

 

Jos was no saint in the past, but in recent years he has kept his nose clean. He obviously has learned a few things. And he knows that any repeat of his behaviour of the past will backfire on Max an all the woerk they did together to get Max where he is right now.

Max certainly learned from it since he is not a chip of the block in that respect. If anything, Max appears to have learned from the errors of his dad in the best possible manner.

 

Jos may well have said some (for in particular non-Max F1 fans)  unpopular things in his quest to promote Max' interests within the team. But to my knowledge, he has never said anything racists about Lewis or called him other negative names or being outspoken negative about him.

 

If this kind of behaviour towards Max and his dad is acceptable, then shall we from now on bring Nelson Sr in to each and every discussion about Nelson Piquet Jnr?

Edited by Henri Greuter, 27 June 2022 - 07:24.

[Nemo1965]

Remembering from reading the Pruller's, Piquet ended up with a number of Prix de Citron 's (Media Award selected by press members for the least cooperative driver, the Prix d' Orange was the opposite)......

 

 

I am not surprised about something like this happening.

 

Neither am I surprised that some over here instantly use the opportunity to drag Max' dad Jos into all of this.

 

Jos was no saint in the past, but in recent years he has kept his nose clean. He obviously has learned a few things. And he knows that any repeat of his behaviour of the past will backfire on Max an all the woerk they did together to get Max where he is right now.

Max certainly learned from it since he is not a chip of the block in that respect. If anything, Max appears to have learned from the errors of his dad in the best possible manner.

 

Jos may well have said some (for in particular non-Max F1 fans)  unpopular things in his quest to promote Max' interests within the team. But to my knowledge, he has never said anything racists about Lewis or called him other negative names or being outspoken negative about him.

 

If this kind of behaviour towards Max and his dad is acceptable, then shall we from now on bring Nelson Sr in to each and every discussion about Nelson Piquet Jnr?

 

I commented on that in my first post. I also want to add that Jos has raised an exemplary son in Max and has atoned for his sins in the past - which never included racist or discriminating talk. Which is quite a feat, regarding the fact that Jos grew up so dirt-poor (on a car-dump) that would be called 'white trash' * in the United States. 

 

(* Note: This how Jos has described his own childhood, so don't jump on my back.)

 

PS: I've looked for a list of historic winners of the Prix de Citron. Could not find it. But I bet Piquet received it AFTER, say, 1983. 

Edited by Nemo1965, 27 June 2022 - 07:31.

[milestone 11]

And the mocking of Carlos Reutemann in the aftermath of the ultimately fatal incident with the mechanic at Zolder.

A thoroughly detestable piece of work isn't he?

[Taxi]

My first favourit driver. He always was totaly amazing on track: fast, respectful and inteligent. Off track pretty much had an "i don't care, I say whatever I want" attitude. HIs language was always agressive so this is not a surprise to me. We were talking about him in another thread saying he would have a lot of trouble if we had social media back in the 80's.  Even at 70 he managed to screw it up. 

 

"neguinho" and "negão" are two racist terms in Brasil and looks like he doesn't have problems in using them.       

 

I'm curious to see how he will react to the storm. 

[Collombin]

Notable that when around 10 years ago there was a gathering at the Australian GP, of all surviving world champions, for a photo shoot. The only one who decided not to turn up, was Piquet

Wasn't Piquet also the only active, available WDC to refuse to compete in that Mercedes saloon race at Mickey Mouse Nurburgring in 1984? Not the worst thing yet mentioned in this thread, admittedly.

[Henri Greuter]

Wasn't Piquet also the only active, available WDC to refuse to compete in that Mercedes saloon race at Mickey Mouse Nurburgring in 1984? Not the worst thing yet mentioned in this thread, admittedly.

 

 

Remember he was tightly related with BMW at that time, In fact, in 1982 when BMW still had troubles to keep their engines in one piece, he was one of the strongest supporters withinn Brabham to continue with the BMW . Even whn there were some signs than by then Owner/Boss Ecclestone was willing to sacrifice the turbocharged engines in case it would help him to get an ever stronger foothold and more control about FOCA and F1 in general.

Not saying that this was the reason but it may have something to do with that, the more while he was the then current world champion, winning his title with a BMW engine.

[SenorSjon]

Well, more often that not. Old folk use old terms. He is 70 years old.

[FatHarryWhite]

My father is over 70. Chances of him using that sort of term is nil.

 

It's not like Nelson's 95 and suffering dementia. Being 70 is no excuse, IMO.

Edited by FatHarryWhite, 27 June 2022 - 08:41.

[sheSgoTthElooK]

He should shut up and drive... oh wait... he isn't driving anymore... well, then... shut the **** up.

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Brazilian crowd "loves" Hamilton... 

 

Anyways, it was being said long ago.. it always amazes me how those things pop up after certain amount of time 

 

[statman]

still one of the most popular videos in the F1 community!

 

[MikeTekRacing]

An absolute racist idiot

[thefinalapex]

An absolute tool, just a disgraceful human in general if you look at all the remarks he made during his life.

[BleuMurmure]

This "news" surely belongs in the Racist Comments section.

[statman]

haha, some I hadn't seen in the video:

 

* Prost is so ugly, he becomes someones friend to steal their girlfriend

 

* Berger is the most impressive driver in Formula 1, he never did anything and still gets a lot of money

 

* Mansell is a fast idiot, he let slip three championships

 

* First: Mansell plays golf I play tennis, second: his terrible taste in women I prefer them to be good-looking, third: I won three championships, he lost three

 

* Ligier, Williams, Brabham have the safest monocoques. The most unsafe? Ferrari, Renault, Alfa Romeo, the electric chairs.

[absinthedude]

Nelson could come across as funny. I remember after he won his final GP in Canada in 1991....that was the one where Mansell somehow stalled his car while waving to the crowd on the final lap as he looked set for victory......after the race Piquet was asked if he felt sorry for Mansell....and he replied, "I don't feel sorry for nobody". He'd just won the race, his third since finding a return to form at Benetton...of course he was happy. 

 

But a lot of the time he just came across as an arrogant arse, full of himself who literally didn't care if he hurt people with his words. 

[RA2]

 

But a lot of the time he just came across as an arrogant arse, full of himself who literally didn't care if he hurt people with his words. 

 

 

 

That's what he was, so why hide it?

[jjcale]

Well, more often that not. Old folk use old terms. He is 70 years old.

 

70 is not that old ...

[jjcale]

That's what he was, so why hide it?

 

Because we live in society with others ... so we have to adhere to basic standards of conduct.

[jjcale]

That was a bad joke but it was tongue in cheek.  Piquet  always was a bit of a (practical) joker during his F1 carreer and often he was genuinly funny (the guys working at Brabham loved him when he drove there), on other occasions he clearly misjudged the impact of his words. His comment on Mansell and his wife, he called Mansell a 'blockhead' and his wife an 'unatractive boxhead' were nasty, and about Senna he said that Ayrton 'doesn't like women'.

 

Nelson's dislike of Hamilton is obviously heavily influenced by his daughter having a relationship with Max when Max was in a title fight with Lewis. That doesn't excuse his foul language in any way off course.

 

That's no excuse ... I am sure Max and Kelly are appalled .... I have never heard MV say a disrepectful word publicly to or about LH ... and I have heard him say many respectful things to and about LH. 

 

Piquet is just a bellend ....

[Risil]

70 is not that old ...

 

And by the evidence collected in this thread he seems to be more or less the same guy he was age 30.

[lewislorenzo]

Has this been picked up by any mainstream media? BBC or Sky?

[Risil]

Folha de Sao Paulo is as mainstream as it comes Lewislorenzo 

 

https://en.wikipedia...olha_de_S.Paulo

[jjcale]

 

Hi, Nemo.

 

I´m Brazilian and I´m black. 

 

NEGUINHO is the diminutive of NEGO or NEGRO (formal translation of black). The word NEGO (without the 'R') were used to refer to black people in a derogatory way by the slave hunters or by the slave owners, mainly when the slave were punished or hunted. 

 

NEGUINHO is diminutive, and it means little black, or it is used to refer to a young black man. In the past, the word were used to refer to the to ordinary people along the decades after slavery. 

 

In the XX century, the word changed its meaning to illustrate ordinary people in general, but its meaning came from the way the racist white people used to see young black men, as someone without individual identity, someone in the middle of an undistinguished crowd of black people.

 

Nowadays none uses this word to refer to black people because it is clearly derogatory and offensive. Some black artists adopted the nickname Neguinho (like Neguinho da Beija Flor, a great samba singer!) just to defying the depreciatory nature of its original historical meaning, exactly in the sense that black people uses the 'N' word between themselves.

 

In this case, Piquet used the word TWICE. He clearly wants to be clear to his interlocutor and to aggrieve certain audience.

 

It was painfully racist for me. I grew up seeing my father, a black man, watching and rooting for Piquet on some Sunday mornings.

 

I'm still in disbelief.

 

 

My brother,

 

Dont let stuff like this get you down ... its just a word ... and Piquet is not important - he is just an ex entertainer ... that's all F1 drivers are ultimately, entertainers... they are not heros or role models... they drive cars. Not a societally important function. 

 

And as I said in another thread, you dont know what is really in people's hearts even a guy who speaks pefectly in public can have a dirty view deep inside ... OK that is a small minority - but but it still exists ....so dont get wrapped up any particular "hero". 

 

And with respect (genuinely), your real problem is what I said before - why is it when I watch events from Brazil I dont see black faces in the crowds ... what is going on? That is an indicator of much bigger problems. 

 

Fix that and you wont care about what the likes of Piquet have to say .... 

[RA2]

Has this been picked up by any mainstream media? BBC or Sky?

I think this happened last year.

[OvDrone]

Well, more often that not. Old folk use old terms. He is 70 years old.

Never too late to not be an idiot.

[milestone 11]

Well, more often that not. Old folk use old terms. He is 70 years old.

Gee, thanks!

[GentlemanDriver091]

Nelson's dislike of Hamilton is obviously heavily influenced by his daughter having a relationship with Max when Max was in a title fight with Lewis.

Obviously for someone who hates Max as much as you do, perhaps?

Not a single reason to drag Max into this discussion, but somehow I’m not surprised.

[absinthedude]

Well, more often that not. Old folk use old terms. He is 70 years old.

 

There is world of difference between a 70 year old who has lived all his life in a small town, surrounded only by people with similar attitudes.....and one who's been travelling the globe and on the international stage since his twenties. 

 

Nelson knows better.