98 replies to this topic

[GregThomas]

Re the object in the cockpit noted in my post #25 above...

 

 

 

 

Edit: Am just noticing what appears to be sticky tape all over the windscreen and shows the car with and without in the two images I note from Catalina Park.  Was the screen cracked and breaking up?  My pix was post-race.

 

I doubt that's tape on the screen. I think it's a shadow from overhead cables. There appears to be quite a bit overhead judging by the reflections on the scuttle.

[Charlieman]

Excellent news - perhaps the ‘barn find’ of the century?

Not quite.

 

The car was stored for many years -- and it was known to be in storage.

 

There's enough car here to define it as a particular McLaren-Cooper 1960s racer. As a restoration project, it could be presented as any of iteration 5 to 7 without destroying its integrity.

[Tom Glowacki]

The only difference between Iterations 5 and 6 would be handled by a boring bar and/or a stroker crank.  Iteration 7 is insignificant.

Edited by Tom Glowacki, 04 July 2022 - 03:19.

[Lee Nicolle]

I doubt that's tape on the screen. I think it's a shadow from overhead cables. There appears to be quite a bit overhead judging by the reflections on the scuttle.

Insulation tape  I feel.

Poor old panel work has copped a hiding from the rocks, the screen has a small piece missing

Edited by Lee Nicolle, 04 July 2022 - 04:52.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, you can see this clearly in the Henry Ford Museum pics...

 

https://www.thehenry...artifact/479106

[marksixman]

At this very moment, I'm looking at a B&W snap I took of Bruce's car in the paddock at Mosport for the 1964 Player's 200.  If that's green from memory, it's the dirtiest, darkest shade I could ever imagine.  On a side note, what was the colour and shade of the centre stripe?  HA!

 

And as far as that goes, what the devil is that in the cockpit located in what would be just off his left shoulder mounted on what I would think is the panel separating cockpit from engine bay?  Looks for all the world like an ignition coil.

It is certainly an (the) ignition coil. These were mounted on many cars "out in the fresh air" to help keep them cool. And the distributor was sited right behind that bulkhead, so no distance for the king lead to travel.

[68targa]

Yes, you can see this clearly in the Henry Ford Museum pics...

 

https://www.thehenry...artifact/479106

I'm confused here (easily done). In this pic there is tape on the screen and it appears to be on the victory lap with flag and passenger (Tyler?)  but in the earlier colour pic there is no tape.    Were there two heats for the Mosport race ?

[Tim Murray]

Were there two heats for the Mosport race ?

Yes indeed:

https://www.racingsp...1964-06-06.html

[68targa]

Thank you..

[Red Socks]

''Da Vinci's Mona Lisa has areas of overpaint/changes of mind/modification. I doubt - thank the Almighty - that anyone would seriously strip them off to retrieve the long-obscured first try.'' 

 

I take the liberty of quoting DCN in post 32 where he makes a valid point but in this particular analogy he is looking into the telescope the wrong way round.

 

Our ''Mona Lisa'' in this instance was changed by the artist after a couple of years when fashion changed and to continue the analogy da Vinci cut the original miserable smile out and replaced it with the enigma we see today. The scrap smile was discarded by da Vinci and indeed picked up by the man who cleaned his brushes. It is said the brush cleaner laid the scrap aside and fifty years later found this smile and offered it along with the brushes to another who recreated the ''original'' Mona Lisa around the discarded smile.

​No one is suggesting any stripping of the painting we recognise today as the Mona Lisa, but excuse some of us if we fail to recognize a smile which means nothing.

​It gets better when we examine closely, as I have done with photos, the the original smile and its surroundings with the real Mona Lisa and realise that the parts attached to just the smile bear next to no relation with the marvellous Mona Lisa just brought into the country.

Actually I think the smile attachments make the new repro picture a Picasso !!

 

Now well into my eighth decade, nearly fifty years into being misdirected far more often that corrected in these matters and never having dealt or taken anyones shilling I apologise for becoming more dogmatic not less. 

 

 

 

I#

Edited by Red Socks, 05 July 2022 - 15:56.

[cooper997]

Borrowed from The Bruce McLaren Scrapbook by Jan McLaren & Richard Becht

 

1964 August Bank Holiday Brands??

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

Borrowed from 1964 - 65 Autosport HPC annual...

 

 

 

Stephen

[Ray Bell]

A great article, Stephen...

 

It puts the reader in touch with everything that went on with the car until Bruce was finished with it.

[cooper997]

Ray, Yes good period detail.

 

Although Bruce gets the credit, one can think E S Young was the real author.

 

 

Stephen

[Doug Nye]

Eoin would certainly have written that piece and it sounds like him.  Of course, Bruce would have approved the piece pre-publication, and I recall from experience that Bruce was never backward in expressing his opinions and preferences - though always in a disarming and naturally charming manner...  

 

DCN

[Ray Bell]

One almost wonders how Bruce found the time, Doug...

 

But I can understand what you say. He'd no doubt find things in Eoin's writing which he wouldn't have written himself, while he'd always be so disarming if there was a point of difference.

 

It's no wonder he got as far as he did in the car manufacturing business in the few short years he had to make his mark.

[Nick Planas]

Quick question from a fan: Has anyone ever heard of Bruce McLaren truly blowing his top and throwing a wobbly à la Chris Amon?? Everything I've ever read or heard of him says not, but surely there must have been some trying occasions...

[Doug Nye]

Never heard of one.  But I will ask...

 

DCN

[MarkBisset]

 

A couple of articles about the Zerex with quite a few photos. The shot above is dated by Getty (often unreliably) 5 September 1963.

 

https://primotipo.co...-zerex-special/

 

https://primotipo.co...retty-boy-then/

 

 

Bruce at Goodwood during the RAC Tourist Trophy meeting in August 1964 - Cooper Olds. Note the aero reliefs atop the front guards and bonnet top radiator exit duct famously discovered during Goodwood testing, now where are those shots I wonder…

Edited by MarkBisset, 12 July 2022 - 00:06.

[kayemod]

Colin Chapman's comments on that first sitting in the chassis photo would have been interesting...

 

Those top rails!

[Ray Bell]

The article posted under Bruce McLaren's name above highlighted that weakness...

 

I think this was the first time that Roger didn't do a good job. He had the two top rails of the chassis removed from just behind the front suspension to the rear of the cockpit bay, replacing them with new tubes that curved down and out then back in and up, giving room for two seats where there had previously been one.

 

The tube bends would have delighted a master plumber, but I'm afraid they gave the chassis probably one of the lowest torsional rigidity figures ever!

[2F-001]

Coopers were not complete strangers to curved tubes though, were they? Those would be 'in keeping', if a little extreme.

[Charlieman]

Colin Chapman's comments on that first sitting in the chassis photo would have been interesting...

 

Those top rails!

Aah, consider all the patience and expertise to bend those tubes. Thick walled tubes. Note also the "adjustable" inboard wishbone mounts and the offsets from the transverse member.

 

There are N rules for building a multi tubular or space frame chassis. The last of them is to build whatever works, of which this is an extreme example.

[Doug Nye]

It didn't work well enough for Bruce when it became involved in serious racing.  Re Cooper not being complete strangers to curved tubes they did not build-in curves in differing planes amidships. To many contemporary observers Roger Penske's pace in his wide-cockpit offset-drive Zerex Special 'Mark II' simply underlined two huge factors - the car's relatively light weight - and Roger's personal prowess as a driver.

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 12 July 2022 - 17:10.

[kayemod]

It didn't work well enough for Bruce when it became involved in serious racing.  Re Cooper not being complete strangers to curved tubes they did not build-in curves in differing planes amidships. To many contemporary observers Roger Penske's pace in his wide-cockpit offset-drive Zerex Special 'Mark II' simply underlined two huge factors - the car's relatively light weight - and Roger's personal prowess as a driver.

 

DCN

 

Yes, in spite of the car's early form rather than because of it, Bruce had to rectify the obvious faults in order to stay ahead of improving competition.

[Lee Nicolle]

So to sum this car up it is like grandpas axe,, had 3 new handles and 2 new heads!!

So many cars end up like this. Rules change or the quest for more speed and simply updating original bits that were never right. 

Those bends though,,,, not good engineering

[Updraught]

Aah, consider all the patience and expertise to bend those tubes. Thick walled tubes. Note also the "adjustable" inboard wishbone mounts and the offsets from the transverse member.

 

There are N rules for building a multi tubular or space frame chassis. The last of them is to build whatever works, of which this is an extreme example.

 

Speaking of "tubes", here is a story from the late Roy Gane:

 

When Roger had a Birdcage Maserati, he came to the shop one Friday afternoon and said to Roy he did not have the money to pay him that week.

 

Roy replies, come back in an hour with my money or I will cut your f***king car in half.

 

Not an idle threat, especially from Roy!

 

Roger came back and settled.

 

Roy said later, 1/2 an hour with a hacksaw would have done the job!!

[Ray Bell]

There were some parts which carried through for the whole of the car's career, Lee...

 

Or at least from the time it was built into the Zerex Special. The rear end remained, in all probability the front suspension was the same as likely were the steering wheel and gearlever, some of the intruments, probably some of the wheels too, the brakes and so on.

[Charlieman]

Or at least from the time it was built into the Zerex Special. The rear end remained, in all probability the front suspension was the same as likely were the steering wheel and gearlever, some of the intruments, probably some of the wheels too, the brakes and so on.

The photos show how little of the source remained by the time the cockpit was widened. Every chassis member in front of the driver's bottom was new. Given the number of miles that the car raced, it is unlikely that the wishbones or steering arms were original -- maybe the uprights and rack?

[Doug Nye]

 Every chassis member in front of the driver's bottom was new. Given the number of miles that the car raced, it is unlikely that the wishbones or steering arms were original -- maybe the uprights and rack?

 

To the best of my knowledge the first of these statements is an untrue assumption.

 

The front-end of the surviving frame, including the foremost two lower cross-members, top cross-member, down-curved top rails and (importantly) both the suspension wishbone pick-ups and the foot pedals appears to be 1961 Cooper T53P original.

 

Witness marks on the second lower cross-member (from the front) indicate how the foot pedals were originally centre-mounted which they would have been when the car was in Formula 1 and then 1962 centre-seat 'Zerex Special' form - but then were offset to the right on that same cross-member as they would have been during the offset-drive wide-cockpit conversion - which involved adoption of that whirly-curly-weirdie midship-chassis section - for 1963.

 

Similarly the rearmost chassis 'square' also appears to be the original.

 

DCN

[10kDA]

I often wondered just how Penske's crew went about widening the single-seat chassis. Seeing the pic Mark included in post #69 reveals the likely, and most practical, method. The lower frame tubes appear to be at the original spacing for a single-seater. Cutting out the upper structure between front crossmember and firewall frame while retaining the connection of the front and rear structure through the lower frame rails would be easy. The front crossmembers could be jigged into place before any cutting began, and then fitting and welding the widened tubing segments could be done to a structure that was more-or-less "stable". I've done a similar process with an airplane, shortening a forward-most fuselage bay to keep center of gravity acceptable when installing a heavier engine.

 

That may be the "how", but the "why" they did it resulting in the displayed outcome is still...    ... puzzling. LOL

[Allen Brown]

.... Every chassis member in front of the driver's bottom was new. ...

 

This is not correct.  When the car was in South America, I was sent detailed pictures and had the owner measure a number of the key tubes at the front and back of the car.  I had just completed a dossier on a completely authentic Cooper T53 so the owner of that car was able to help me compare the two chassis and I am quite sure that both the front and the back of the South American car are original Cooper T53,  Howden could point out where the frame had been cut at McLarens to let in the centre section and Doug spotted - as he said above - where the pedals had been moved over to the right. 

[cooper997]

Over on the Youtube thread DCN added a link worthy of being here with Penske Zerex content.

https://forums.autos...here/?p=9979139

 

hopefully direct to youtube...

https://youtu.be/I4Uv8iimrKA

 

 

13 October 1963 LA Times sports car GP, Riverside grid and results borrowed from Road & Track's report.

 

 

 

Stephen

[MarkBisset]

 

The Zerex Climax/Cooper Olds story I like is the nascent Bruce McLaren Motor Racing Team's 'discovery' of nose-top hot air ducts and their advantages. (Penske aboard the Zerex Climax, LA Times GP, Sept 1963)

 

The following paraphrases George Begg's prose in 'Bruce McLaren: Racing Car Constructor'.

 

While testing at Goodwood, Wally Willmott and Tyler Alexander got tired of continually removing the front section of the bodywork, just to check brake and clutch fluid levels.

 

After discussion it was decided to create cut a small access hatch above the master cylinders. It was hinged at the front and held shut with a Dzus fastener at the rear.

 

On one test run the fastener came loose. Bruce noticed the flap lifting, showing negative pressure just where they thought it would be positive, and therefore hold the flap shut.

 

The three of them discussed the phenomena. They concluded that if it was a low-pressure area, they could exhaust hot air from the water and oil radiators through the top of the body to assist cooling. The method until then had been to exit the air around the front wheels.

 

 

They decided to change the radiator air exit, so Tyler set-to with tin-snips and cut a big square hole in the body behind the radiator. The flap of alloy wasn’t cut at the top but folded down behind the radiator to deflect the air upwards.

(Tyler in the Goodwood paddock, Cooper Olds still fitted with its winning 1964 Mosport GP numbers - Wally Willmott shot)

 

After Bruce’s test run, to everyone’s surprise, “Bruce reported that the front of the car now had better grip, and this helped reduce high speed understeer. This in turn meant a larger rear spoiler could be employed so as to once gain balance the car’s handling at high speed.”

 

“This was a big breakthrough as it meant both better cooling and higher downforce from the body. Back at the factory an alloy panel was made and fitted so as to smooth the flow of air through the big square vent in the top of the bodywork.”

 

 

The Cooper Oldsmobile raced with the top-duct fitted for the balance of its life.

(Bruce up front of the August '64 RAC Tourist Trophy grid at Goodwood)

 

This innovation – I’m not saying McLaren were the first to do it, but they may have been – was then deployed on all front-radiator McLarens commencing with the M1, with the exception of the 1967-8 M4 F2 cars, until the side-radiator M16 and beyond.

The approach quickly became the paradigm globally.

 

Below Bruce testing the new McLaren M1 Oldsmobile - the first tests were done body off in what became Bruce's standard practice - August/September 1964 - GP Library shot. 

 

 

Edited by MarkBisset, 20 July 2022 - 01:13.

[BRG]

Up for auction this weekend: https://www.bonhams....25438-see-text/

(Bearded gent in photos not included)

And sold for £700k.  Not bad for a pile of bits!

 

Auctioneer gave a very nice spiel about the car's history, with a big nod to Howden Ganley and a wink to DCN.

[Doug Nye]

And sold for £700k.  Not bad for a pile of bits!

 

Auctioneer gave a very nice spiel about the car's history, with a big nod to Howden Ganley and a wink to DCN.

 

Hammer price realised was actually £800,000 Sterling, which with fees builds to a total price paid of £911,000.  One knowledgeably sympathetic new owner, some good craftsmanship and another quarter-mill or so later this wonderful old lady should return to the world of the living...  It was so nice to witness the vendor's reaction. 

 

Faintly chuffed of Farnham

[AJB2]

Is the identity of the new owner public knowledge?

[Doug Nye]

A private collector/entity - he, she or it requests privacy.

 

Irrespective, I understand that sympathetic full restoration to runnable order is intended. 

 

DCN

[BRG]

....much to the chagrin of the owner of the 'other' Xerex Special.

[Allen Brown]

It was so nice to witness the vendor's reaction. 

 

The poor vendor was pacing around like an expectant father.  As the auction was running late due to technical problems, at one stage he needed to get out of the tent so I bought him an ice cream, but even that didn't relax him for long.  

 

Having followed this car for so many years, it was great to see the attention it received and to know that it has gone to a good home.  I will reveal the next chapter of its life on OldRacingCars.com when I am able to.  

[Gary C]

https://www.motoraut...BLZ8jbkye6bVRIQ

[Doug Nye]

Restoration of the Zerex is currently being planned.  There seems to be an absolute dearth of contemporary photos showing engine bay/transmission details.  

 

If anybody could point us towards such images we would very much appreciate the lead...

 

Give the old lady a happy New Year?

 

DCN

[VWV]

Consulting with Mr Google, I found this, I hope this helps.

 

https://primotipo.fi...-in-paddock.jpg

 

https://primotipo.co...-zerex-special/

 

https://library.revs...race-car/202273

 

https://library.revs...race-car/211925

 

https://library.revs...race-car/231218

Edited by VWV, 11 January 2023 - 00:38.

[Ray Bell]

I imagine the restoration would be back to the original Zerex (with offset seat) form?

 

If that's the case, the photos above are of the modified 2-seater version and may be of very little use.

[Doug Nye]

Nope - too little remains of the Penske iterations to justify such a move, nor would the new owner wish to do so.  

 

The car survives in very largely unspoiled Bruce McLaren Cooper-Zerex-Oldsmobile trim and is to be restored as such, August 1964 - in Guards Trophy Brands Hatch and RAC TT Goodwood trim, probably specifically the latter.

 

I apologise for having failed to make this clear in my photo-reference request above.  Sorry VWV.  

 

The engine/gearbox combination for which we seek contemporary photo reference is Bruce's selected Traco-Oldsmobile F85 V8 mated to Colotti Type 21 transaxle.

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 11 January 2023 - 15:49.

[Catalina Park]

I wonder if Wally Willmott took any photos? He might have been too busy though. 
 

[cooper997]

Sept 64 Motor Racing

3/8/64 Brands Hatch - Kiwis shine for the Guards – 11 McLaren Cooper Olds rear and front views photos p365
 

Nov 04 Bruce McLaren – Racing Car Constructor by George Begg

Chapter 2 The Zerex Special with front on, rebuilt with Olds chassis - no body photo p30

Zerex Special ( Cooper Olds) page references (by index) 15, 17, 18, 38, 39, 44, 46, 65, 74, 82, 90, 97, 100, 194, 201, 228, 234. 

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

I wonder if Wally Willmott took any photos? He might have been too busy though. 
 

 

Wally's  Cooper Olds photos here...

https://forums.autos...mott/?p=3447055

 

 

Stephen

[cooper997]

I was recently gifted the monster-sized 2022 Bonhams Goodwood Revival auction catalogue.

 

From amongst many of the tasty motors, there's the McLaren Cooper Olds, that several from within TNF contributed to this devoted thread,  So thought I would drag it back to the top of the plle and add at least half of the 12 pages for taproot.

 

Can do more if there's interest (Noting that the size of the catalogue doen't make photography of it very easy)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Attribution: Bonhams

 

 

Stephen

Edited by cooper997, 06 January 2024 - 06:41.