62 replies to this topic

[ensign14]

Rather than pulling off somewhere else when it was obvious his car was terminal.  Resulting in a safety car.

 

Was rather helpful to his team-mate.

 

I cannot think of any other examples from the same team with the same team-mate.

[MastaKink]

Rather than pulling off somewhere else when it was obvious his car was terminal.  Resulting in a safety car.

 

Was rather helpful to his team-mate.

 

I cannot think of any other examples from the same team with the same team-mate.

 

How did giving Perez a free stop help his team mate and how were they to know Macca wouldn't pit too?

[Jerem]

Rather than pulling off somewhere else when it was obvious his car was terminal.  Resulting in a safety car.

 

Was rather helpful to his team-mate.

 

I cannot think of any other examples from the same team with the same team-mate.

Singapore 2008? just kidding

[Rumblestrip]

I would presume, and hope, that as part of the driver briefing they're all told the best areas of the track to stop. Although it does of course depend on the type of failure. If the transmission goes there's only going to be a limited distance that can be driven.

[Beri]

A car that lost drive, inching towards one of the fastest corners on the calendar. What choice does Ocon have? Safely getting out on a straight where all cars can see him?
Or trying to jump over the racing line where cars are close to 300km/h in order to park it outside of Copse?
Or creeping through Copse, with cars not able to see you through the whole corner and thus making it a hazard, in order to park it on the National Pit Exit?

I think you know the answer; Ocon chose the best option.

[Brod]

Rather than pulling off somewhere else when it was obvious his car was terminal.  Resulting in a safety car.

 

Was rather helpful to his team-mate.

 

I cannot think of any other examples from the same team with the same team-mate.

 

How did it help Alonso? Because he and Norris clearly got ****ed compared to Perez? Maybe Ocon is some supernatural being and knew McLaren would **** up? 

[PlatenGlass]

I wondered if it was clearly a terminal problem before he committed to the straight meaning he could have gone into the old pitlane, but I'd need to see it again.

[noikeee]

Rather than pulling off somewhere else when it was obvious his car was terminal. Resulting in a safety car.

Was rather helpful to his team-mate.

I cannot think of any other examples from the same team with the same team-mate.

Where would you want to park it then? Middle of Copse on the apex?

[Laster]

I think the insinuation that it was done to help his teammate is a silly one, but yes Ocon could have done better, his car was terminal, did he think he was going to crawl through copse, maggots and becketts at that speed? He could have and should have gone down the old pitlane as it was obvious his race was over before he arrived on the straight.

[Michael Ferner]

Rather than pulling off somewhere else when it was obvious his car was terminal.  Resulting in a safety car.

 

Was rather helpful to his team-mate.

 

I cannot think of any other examples from the same team with the same team-mate.

 

Seriously? Where, in your esteemed opinion, might he have parked it instead?

 

 

I cannot think of any other examples of trolling by the same poster with the same bias.

[PayasYouRace]

Rather than pulling off somewhere else when it was obvious his car was terminal.  Resulting in a safety car.

 

Was rather helpful to his team-mate.

 

I cannot think of any other examples from the same team with the same team-mate.

 

When it was obvious his car was terminal, he was along the straight and his options were to try to get round Copse or slowing cross the racing line. What do you think he could have done? Vanish into thin air? It's his teammate who does the magic tricks.

[ensign14]

Where would you want to park it then? Middle of Copse on the apex?

He literally drove past the old pit entrance...

[PayasYouRace]

He literally drove past the old pit entrance...

 

Before he knew his car was terminal.

[ensign14]

Before he knew his car was terminal.

Rather remarkable that he only found out in the eight seconds after that while doing G-Wiz mph. 

[Acathla]

it's all Alonso's fault. 

[SenorSjon]

Before he knew his car was terminal.

He already had Verstappen and his retinue pass him.

[PayasYouRace]

Rather remarkable that he only found out in the eight seconds after that while doing G-Wiz mph. 

 

It was quite obvious from the onboard that showed him still trying to keep the car running well after Woodcote. Eight seconds is a long time, and if his car could have trundled back to the pits, he's have looked a bit silly pulling off.

[Beri]

Rather remarkable that he only found out in the eight seconds after that while doing G-Wiz mph.

Drivers have to press all sorts of buttons, switches, levers or whatever their engineers tell them to try and fix the issue or to contain the possible damage as much as they can. I am certain that Ocon was busy with said actions and then tried to find a safe place to stop. Which was, evidently, after the pitlane entry.

[chrcol]

It was about half a lap from the first point they knew was a serious problem, he definitely could have parked somewhere better.   He even drove by a exit road.

[ensign14]

It was quite obvious from the onboard that showed him still trying to keep the car running well after Woodcote. Eight seconds is a long time, and if his car could have trundled back to the pits, he's have looked a bit silly pulling off.

 

As I said, it's all rather convenient.  Somehow Alpine and Ocon contrived a situation where he just had to stop ON THE OLD STARTING STRAIGHT and thus guaranteeing a safety car.   Funny that pretty much every similar circumstance in recent years has seen cars pull off near gaps in the fence or anywhere off track.

Edited by ensign14, 03 July 2022 - 18:27.

[Beri]

As I said, it's all rather convenient.  Somehow Alpine and Ocon contrived a situation where he just had to stop ON THE STARTING STRAIGHT and thus guaranteeing a safety car.   Funny that pretty much every similar circumstance in recent years has seen cars pull off near gaps in the fence or anywhere off track.

Those weren't there on the straight. Not without corssing the racing line or getting through Copse with slow turtle speed.

[PayasYouRace]

As I said, it's all rather convenient.  Somehow Alpine and Ocon contrived a situation where he just had to stop ON THE STARTING STRAIGHT and thus guaranteeing a safety car.   Funny that pretty much every similar circumstance in recent years has seen cars pull off near gaps in the fence or anywhere off track.

 

You're seeing things that aren't there.

 

His car was failing. He tried to sort it out, and was off the racing line. Had to stop, and there was no safe way to get off the track at that point.

[jwill189]

Someone's obsession with Alonso is quite unhealthy to conjure such the wild conspiracy.

[Touchdown]

As I said, it's all rather convenient.  Somehow Alpine and Ocon contrived a situation where he just had to stop ON THE OLD STARTING STRAIGHT and thus guaranteeing a safety car.   Funny that pretty much every similar circumstance in recent years has seen cars pull off near gaps in the fence or anywhere off track.

I heard they killed JFK too.

[noikeee]

Our commentators were saying there's a car retrieving point by that straight and that's why he was looking to park there.

Edited by noikeee, 03 July 2022 - 18:36.

[Claudius]

I think it happens quite often that drivers park their cars at the most stupid places. I don't think it's intentional but the teams should tell the drivers where to park their damaged cars, to try and avoid SC. 

[P123]

Nothing to do with his teammate, but I think we see this sort of dumb parking by ailing cars far too often, and given the prevalence of VSC and SC and how they can turn a race it can have a real impact on the end result.  To discourage any foul play, I think it's time the FIA/ stewards started penalising such things.  A driver can't help a car breaking down, but Ocon could have safely parked near a marshals post before eventually trundling to a halt where he did.  A few penalties on their license may encourage the drivers to think a bit more, and maybe be aware of all the spots they can safely park up at.

[noriaki]

It's a bit harsh on Alpine to blame them for intentionally asking Ocon to go straight on instead of pulling into the old pitlane. There were *three seconds* between Ocon exiting Woodcote and the last realistic moment they could have done that. 

 

And I doubt that Esteban, while he was busy telling his team that "I have a problem guys, I cannot exit the corners", that in his mind, in those 3 seconds, he immediately prioritized the benefits of creating a safety car scenario for Alonso - not a clear #1 driver in the team as was the case with Piquet jr, but instead a rival driver Esteban probably would quite like to beat in points standings - over somehow getting going again and continuing the race in which he might well have scored points.

 

Thirdly - none of the people who knew about the 2008 incident are working at Enstone anymore, as far as we can confidently say.

 

 

Someone's obsession with Alonso is quite unhealthy to conjure such the wild conspiracy.

 

Oh it was only the 5th conspiracy the user has presented on the forum today (the FIA refusing to do anything about Grosjean and Nissany; Ferrari intentionally sabotaging Leclerc in favour of Sainz; the FIA favouring Red Bull drivers in their stewarding decisions because they're afraid of losing 20% of the grid; the FIA rigging the 2021 Championship), surely there are more to come yet. 

Edited by noriaki, 03 July 2022 - 19:08.

[pdac]

It was about half a lap from the first point they knew was a serious problem, he definitely could have parked somewhere better.   He even drove by a exit road.

 

... from the point they knew there was a problem - not the point where they knew there was a serious problem. As has been pointed out, these cars are so highly controlled by electronics that a simple reset action through the buttons on the steering wheel can eliminate what seems like a terminal fault instantly. No driver parks up until they have confirmation from the team that the problem is terminal (unless there's smoke and flames shooting out of the back, of course).

[Dolph]

Where would you want to park it then? Middle of Copse on the apex?

It was obvious he should have pulled into the old pits. Thata what i thought the awcond it happened - why didnt he pull in!?

Edited by Dolph, 03 July 2022 - 19:11.

[crespo]

It was obvious he should have pulled into the old pits. Thata what i thought the awcond it happened - why didnt he pull in!?

Because Ocon knew his pit crew wasn't there, obviously!

[registered]

The Full SC wasn't even needed
. The car was cleared before most of the field had caught up to the safety car. VSC should have been fully sufficient

[Claymore25]

Ocon did the right thing.

[Dolph]

Because Ocon knew his pit crew wasn't there, obviously!

What? Were they layed out on the Copse straight then?

Edited by Dolph, 03 July 2022 - 19:56.

[Ferrim]

Thirdly - none of the people who knew about the 2008 incident are working at Enstone anymore, as far as we can confidently say.

Well... maybe one of them...

[William Hunt]

I heard they killed JFK too.

Yes, from a gap in a fence  . Seriously: Ocon didn't do anything wrong.

[D28]

Given that the SC was necessary where the car was parked, Why so long to remove it? I saw the car being pushed behind the fences, and still the SC remained out for a couple of laps. I really dislike the SC being used to bunch up the cars for an exciting finish. I concede that for safety reasons they are essential, but near the end it is desirable to return to green racing as soon as possible, perhaps with local Yellows

I don't believe that was the case today and it certainly affected the results.

[PayasYouRace]

It was obvious he should have pulled into the old pits. Thata what i thought the awcond it happened - why didnt he pull in!?

It wasn’t obvious. He was still working on getting the car back to the (F1) pits long as he left Woodcote.

[garoidb]

Yes, from a gap in a fence  . Seriously: Ocon didn't do anything wrong.

 

Oh, no-one is saying Ocon did anything wrong. This is all about Fernando  . And it is up to the usual standards of rigour.

[Silberpfeil]

I don‘t think the OP deserves a serious reply, so I‘d rather make a more general point and ask anyone who can to always check out the F1TV onboards for context/evidence before putting their thoughts onto a public forum… or just wait for 20 minutes and check Reddit. There‘s usually a Streamable link somewhere that hasn‘t been taken down yet.

[chrcol]

The Full SC wasn't even needed
. The car was cleared before most of the field had caught up to the safety car. VSC should have been fully sufficient

Sadly the sport cant help itself, so trigger happy on the SC button, to close the field for more battles.

 

We had this point raised last year I think where people were saying a SC was needed, but then the reason the SC is needed is to create a gap for the marshalls to work, but as you say if they do the work anyway before the gap is formed then it wasnt needed.

 

I think a VSC with a very slow delta for the sector of the accident needs to be considered for these situations.

 

Also D28 is spot on as well, I even said in the race thread itself, I bet they would hold the SC out for more laps as they cleared the car without much of a queue behind the SC, and sure enough they waited.

Edited by chrcol, 03 July 2022 - 22:24.

[BRG]

I think it happens quite often that drivers park their cars at the most stupid places. I don't think it's intentional but the teams should tell the drivers where to park their damaged cars, to try and avoid SC. 

In general, there is a problem with drivers not making any attempt to clear their failed cars off the track.  Which is just the usual self-centred mindset that these guys have.

 

But in this case, as PAYR keeps trying to point out, Ocon would have been trying all sorts of things (Ctrl-Alt-Del etc) to rectify the problem before the car finally ground to a halt.  If it had been a monumental engine blow-up with clouds of smoke and he failed to pull off into that convenient old pit entrance, then I would join in condemning him.  But it wasn't.  in the end Ocon 's car just rolled to a halt  and he could do nothing about it.

 

Nothing to see here, let's move on!

[Autodromo]

From Ocon's onboard it is clear that is issue started only in a tight corner and he could go down the straight pretty well.  His team was telling him to keep going and there are good reasons to think it would have worked again on the old pit straight.  But then it totally died.  No conspiracy.

[pup]

Clearly some people aren’t comfortable with the questions that are being asked.

Does Alonso have a kill switch in his car to disable his teammate? Was he monitoring Ocon’s position on track at the time? How long has Alonso had this technology? Was Hamilton his first victim or does this go back even further?

[BRG]

While he was at Ferrari, Alonso found the technology for the old 'Screw Rubens' button that Todt used to have.

[redreni]

As I said, it's all rather convenient.  Somehow Alpine and Ocon contrived a situation where he just had to stop ON THE OLD STARTING STRAIGHT and thus guaranteeing a safety car.   Funny that pretty much every similar circumstance in recent years has seen cars pull off near gaps in the fence or anywhere off track.

I'm not sure why it guarantees a SC?

 

I rather thought the race director had chosen to close up the pack because there were only a dozen or so laps left and the sport is run by Americans, so at that point in proceedings they'll throw a full SC because they've spotted a crisp packet or a spec of dust or something on the track, if they have to.

 

I was very impressed that the marshals appeared to have a trolley jack which allowed them to take the car away quickly and efficiently. As far as I could see they didn't wait for all the pitstops to play out and the field to bunch up behind the SC before doing that. Ergo they might as well have done it under VSC.

[D28]

 

 

I rather thought the race director had chosen to close up the pack because there were only a dozen or so laps left and the sport is run by Americans, so at that point in proceedings they'll throw a full SC because they've spotted a crisp packet or a spec of dust or something on the track, if they have to.

 

I was very impressed that the marshals appeared to have a trolley jack which allowed them to take the car away quickly and efficiently. As far as I could see they didn't wait for all the pitstops to play out and the field to bunch up behind the SC before doing that. Ergo they might as well have done it under VSC.

See my post 37 above. The marshals were quick and efficient in removing the car. I was very amazed watching the coverage to see the SC remain dawdling around when the  car was behind the fence. I had suspicions that its purpose was not wholly concerned with safety. I really dislike these contrived uses of the SC, if that was the case. Was there any other reason for the prolonged track time?

Edited by D28, 05 July 2022 - 13:04.

[BRG]

They decided to let lapped cars unlap themselves.  

[D28]

They decided to let lapped cars unlap themselves.  

Then the SC is interposing itself into the race action, and results, nothing to do with safety. I deplore this trend in F1 but I expect to see much more of it in  the future. 

[ExFlagMan]

I think it happens quite often that drivers park their cars at the most stupid places. I don't think it's intentional but the teams should tell the drivers where to park their damaged cars, to try and avoid SC. 

 

It is part of the drivers mind-set to keep going as long as possible - most marshals are of the opinion that the drivers believe that the tiny mechanic 'elf' that lives under the bonnet of every race car will be able to sort the problem out as long as they keep going.