62 replies to this topic

[MikeTekRacing]

D28, on 05 Jul 2022 - 15:52, said:

Then the SC is interposing itself into the race action, and results, nothing to do with safety. I deplore this trend in F1 but I expect to see much more of it in the future.

A car stopped on track ffs.
What do you deplore? Do you want another Jules Bianchi death?

[D28]

MikeTekRacing, on 05 Jul 2022 - 17:12, said:

A car stopped on track ffs.
What do you deplore? Do you want another Jules Bianchi death?

I clearly stated I deplore the SC trundling around long after the car has been removed behind the fence. And this was in response to BRG saying that they were letting the lapped cars unlap themselves. That part is interfering in the race action.

[redreni]

BRG, on 05 Jul 2022 - 14:16, said:

They decided to let lapped cars unlap themselves.  

Don't get me started.

[MikeTekRacing]

D28, on 05 Jul 2022 - 17:25, said:

I clearly stated I deplore the SC trundling around long after the car has been removed behind the fence. And this was in response to BRG saying that they were letting the lapped cars unlap themselves. That part is interfering in the race action.

SC is part of the game and part of strategy.

What is the problem you have on how it was used? Was the procedure not followed to the letter?

[MikeTekRacing]

redreni, on 05 Jul 2022 - 17:26, said:

Don't get me started.

Yeah and we had some great action.

[redreni]

MikeTekRacing, on 05 Jul 2022 - 17:12, said:

A car stopped on track ffs.
What do you deplore? Do you want another Jules Bianchi death?

D28 can speak for himself, but my point is if the car is going to be recovered from the track after the SC has been deployed but before the majority of the pack has caught the SC (which it was), then it must be safe for the marshals to work on the track while cars are passing under the SC deltas. If that's the case I really don't see why it wouldn't be equally as safe for marshals to work on the track under VSC conditions?

 

I share D28's uneasiness about the SC being used for any reason other than because it's needed to ensure safety on track. In this I can't see what value the SC added in terms of safety compared to a VSC and I strongly suspect it was used in preference to a VSC to ensure a close finish (which in fairness, it did).

 

It's got nothing to do with the late Jules Bianchi.

[ARTGP]

This thread is amazing. That’s my healthy laugh for the day taken care of 😂

Edited by ARTGP, 05 July 2022 - 17:37.

[HeadFirst]

chrcol, on 03 Jul 2022 - 18:24, said:

It was about half a lap from the first point they knew was a serious problem, he definitely could have parked somewhere better.   He even drove by a exit road.

 

Easy for you to say. The current generation of PU seems to have somewhat mystical qualities. Driver feel a loss of power, only to have it restored seconds later. Cars appear dead in the water, only to burst back into life after the correct sequence of menus is accessed and appropriate buttons pushed. And most important of all, drivers are optimists forever hoping for Divine Intervention when all else fails.

[MikeTekRacing]

redreni, on 05 Jul 2022 - 17:36, said:

D28 can speak for himself, but my point is if the car is going to be recovered from the track after the SC has been deployed but before the majority of the pack has caught the SC (which it was), then it must be safe for the marshals to work on the track while cars are passing under the SC deltas. If that's the case I really don't see why it wouldn't be equally as safe for marshals to work on the track under VSC conditions?

I share D28's uneasiness about the SC being used for any reason other than because it's needed to ensure safety on track. In this I can't see what value the SC added in terms of safety compared to a VSC and I strongly suspect it was used in preference to a VSC to ensure a close finish (which in fairness, it did).

It's got nothing to do with the late Jules Bianchi.

Under VSC - there isn’t a lot of time for marshalls to work on the car. It can/should be used for very straightforward retreivals.

Not for having cars pass under VSC continuously with marshals on track

[BRG]

Where Ocon stopped, next to the old pitwall, there is nowhere for marshals to escape if they needed to under a VSC.  So a SC was the only safe option.  It might have been different had he pulled off on the other side of the track.

[redreni]

MikeTekRacing, on 05 Jul 2022 - 19:14, said:

Under VSC - there isn’t a lot of time for marshalls to work on the car. It can/should be used for very straightforward retreivals.

Not for having cars pass under VSC continuously with marshals on track

In that particular location they had as long as they wanted to work on the car even if had only been VSC. The racing line is on driver's left. The stranded car was on driver's right. There's no overtaking under the VSC and drivers had good visibility of the hazard as they approached so could be expected to keep left giving it a wide berth. Access to the track was from driver's right.

 

Also, they had a trolley jack, so it was a very straightforward retrieval. No need for a Manitou or flatbed to be brought on track, for example.

 

But let's say you're right and it's considered too dangerous for marshals to work on the track at all while cars are passing, even at substantially reduced speed. In that case, why in your opinion did the marshals not wait until all cars were formed up behind the SC, then wait until the SC train had passed the old pit straight, before entering the track? And doesn't the fact that they didn't do that undermine the argument that they could not have done the job equally safely under VSC?

[redreni]

BRG, on 06 Jul 2022 - 09:30, said:

Where Ocon stopped, next to the old pitwall, there is nowhere for marshals to escape if they needed to under a VSC.  So a SC was the only safe option.  It might have been different had he pulled off on the other side of the track.

I don't get that.

 

I can see there is a potential safety benefit to retrieving a car under SC rather than VSC, but only if you wait until the cars have formed up behind the SC and then wait for the train of cars to pass the incident before performing the recovery. That way you get to work on track for maybe 2.5 minutes at a time without any cars passing. That wasn't done, though.

 

So regardless of how quickly or slowly marshals could have vacated the track if they needed to, the fact is they were prepared to do that recovery while cars that hadn't caught the SC were passing the scene and race control was prepared to let them. What's the difference between that and performing the recovery under VSC?

[BRG]

I suppose they were British marshals trained to just get on with it, but supposedly they aren't meant to enter the track without the Race Director's permission (or a note from their Mum).

 

So either they were anticipating the SC or the RD gave them permission to do it, thereby breaking the FIA's own rules.

 

OK, I can see which must have been the case!