49 replies to this topic

[FullThrottleF1]

Formula 1 "not a closed door" to Honda in 2026 (autosport.com)

 

There was a few rumours they were looking at Alpha Tauri...

[juicy sushi]

Honda could quit F1, take time away, announce a return, and launch a return, before Audi gets around to finally confirming if they're in or out.

[JimmyClark]

It wouldn't surprise me at all. They are Honda. 

[PayasYouRace]

Honda could quit F1, take time away, announce a return, and launch a return, before Audi gets around to finally confirming if they're in or out.

They could do all that, spend time becoming competitive and quit F1 just before their car becomes a winner again before Audi confirms their entry.

[mmmcurry]

They could do all that, spend time becoming competitive and quit F1 just before their car becomes a winner again before Audi confirms their entry.

 

How many times?

[eibyyz]

So between Audi/Red Bull, Porsche/Sauber and Honda/Alpha Tauri, that's a total of zero new cars on the grid.  

 

<snark>And Michael is denied an entry because why?</snark>

[Goron3]

So between Audi/Red Bull, Porsche/Sauber and Honda/Alpha Tauri, that's a total of zero new cars on the grid.  

 

<snark>And Michael is denied an entry because why?</snark>

But that's two new manufacturer outfits.

 

That would mean SIX Works teams, only four customer teams!

[Ali_G]

But that's two new manufacturer outfits.

That would mean SIX Works teams, only four customer teams!

As sports car racing has shown in the past, that level of manufacturer works teams can be a very dangerous thing with serious downsides for the series. The only positive is the cost cap which makes F1 a lot more palatable for Boards.

[cpbell]

But that's two new manufacturer outfits.

 

That would mean SIX Works teams, only four customer teams!

Which is not a good thing.

[eibyyz]

But that's two new manufacturer outfits.

 

That would mean SIX Works teams, only four customer teams!

 

Is the ideal state ten teams / ten engine manufacturers?  Rob Walker and Ross Brawn are spinning in their graves, metaphorically in Ross' case.

[Ruusperi]

I'm only interested in new teams, if it means we get more than 20 cars.

[Ali_G]

I'm only interested in new teams, if it means we get more than 20 cars.

Current grid is limited to 24 cars. Let Audi and Honda come in as new teams. Don’t want to see the loss of Sauber, McLaren or the Minardi to Alpha Tauri lineage. We’ve lost enough historically loaded teams over the last 30 years.

[PayasYouRace]

Current grid is limited to 24 cars. Let Audi and Honda come in as new teams. Don’t want to see the loss of Sauber, McLaren or the Minardi to Alpha Tauri lineage. We’ve lost enough historically loaded teams over the last 30 years.

26.

[Ali_G]

26.

They lowered it to 24 I thought when they were bringing new teams on board back around 2009?

[pacificquay]

They lowered it to 24 I thought when they were bringing new teams on board back around 2009?

No, it remained 26 but the USF1 team which had an entry never appeared.

[FullThrottleF1]

The rules state 26. But weirdly a lot of people are saying 24. Maybe they are hoping if they say it enough it will become a rule.

 

and yes Andretti won't get in. That would mean people in F1 were acting in the intrests of the sport. Which they won't

[DS27]

If they could also announce when they will next leave F1 after re-joining, we will all know in which year they will again produce a competitive engine after years of sub-par performance.

[Ali_G]

No, it remained 26 but the USF1 team which had an entry never appeared.

 

You and PayasYouRace are correct. It was increased from 24 to 26 in 2010. https://bleacherrepo...id-be-maxed-out

[KeithD68]

Has no one yet realised the annual Audi/Honda/BMW/whoever F1 interest is just a PR trick on quiet weeks to create some brand noise

 

Everyone always falls for it and the fan boys go off on wet dreams and buy more of Audi/Honda/BMW merch

Edited by KeithD68, 12 July 2022 - 16:28.

[PayasYouRace]

They lowered it to 24 I thought when they were bringing new teams on board back around 2009?

It was 24 before that. It was raised to 26 when the “new teams” were invited. That’s why there were four of them. USF1, Campos, Virgin and Lotus. It would have been a 26 car grid but USF1 never made it. It remains at 26.

[Izzyeviel]

Breaking News: Honda announce their departure from F1 in 2029 after three years with the Williams team. 

Also Breaking News: Williams win all the races in 2030 

 

We can dream right?

[cbo]

Has no one yet realised the annual Audi/Honda/BMW/whoever F1 interest is just a PR trick on quiet weeks to create some brand noise

Everyone always falls for it and the fan boys go off on wet dreams and buy more of Audi/Honda/BMW merch

Indeed.

Others will soon carch on.

Isuzu announces....

The resurrected Trabant company announces F1 team when F1 regulations agrees to two stroke engine...

Stallantis claims Opel F1 entry....

Meanwhile Audi is closer than ever...

[Jops14]

Im with others, cool but dont really care as we need more teams

Honda just pair up with Andretti 50/50 and go that way

[FirstnameLastname]

Breaking News: Honda announce their departure from F1 in 2029 after three years with the Williams team.
Also Breaking News: Williams win all the races in 2030

We can dream right?

Honda announce they will supply race winning engines to Williams, free of charge and they’ll let them be called Not Hondas. In fact they’ll pay for everything and keep upgrading the engines but it’s to be kept quiet - so they are gonna pay a whole bunch of cash along with the free engines.

They’ll come back in 2035 with Team Madeup and try to rebuild their reputation as a plucky underdog. If the going gets too good, they’ll be sure to cancel the contract - sign over millions of pounds of investment and continue to send cheques every month to pay for the entire team

JUST DONT PUT OUR NAME ON IT OR GIVE US ANY CREDIT!!!

Edited by FirstnameLastname, 12 July 2022 - 22:35.

[absinthedude]

It was 24 before that. It was raised to 26 when the “new teams” were invited. That’s why there were four of them. USF1, Campos, Virgin and Lotus. It would have been a 26 car grid but USF1 never made it. It remains at 26.

 

Absolutely correct, it was 24 for a while when Bernie seemed to think 24 was the "ideal". Mostly because, for the first time in decades, he couldn't attract 26 or more cars. 

 

The door is open for Honda, who presumably are keeping up to speed with current developments and retain a finger in the RB powertrain pie. Their on-off-on-off relationship with F1 is strange, but they almost always add something to the series. 

[Beri]

Formula 1 "not a closed door" to Honda in 2026 (autosport.com)

 

There was a few rumours they were looking at Alpha Tauri...

 

Rumours indeed. Because I cant imagine Porsche wanting to give up the ideal circumstance that they can develop an engine with 2 teams, rather than with 1.

[PayasYouRace]

Absolutely correct, it was 24 for a while when Bernie seemed to think 24 was the "ideal". Mostly because, for the first time in decades, he couldn't attract 26 or more cars.

The door is open for Honda, who presumably are keeping up to speed with current developments and retain a finger in the RB powertrain pie. Their on-off-on-off relationship with F1 is strange, but they almost always add something to the series.

Was it something to do with the Toyota entry? It seemed to stem from that era, and there was supposed to be 24 cars in 2002 but Prost never made it to the season.

[Stephane]

Oh yeah, please come back. Or just confirm you never left

[BRG]

Stallantis claims Opel F1 entry....

Meanwhile Audi is closer than ever...

The Stellantis group includes both Alfa Romeo and Maserati who each have a very respectable F1 history.  And Rikky von Opel raced in F1.

 

So Stellantis have hugely more credibility in F1 than Audi!

[kumo7]

Rumours indeed. Because I cant imagine Porsche wanting to give up the ideal circumstance that they can develop an engine with 2 teams, rather than with 1.

 

This rumor indeed that I have not heard of could only happen when Honda to support RedBull and RedBull decide to give Honda a shot by giving operational capacity of AT while maintaining the ownership.

Honda is large enough for Red Bull to trust its financial side and for RedBull technology to have serious pie in this role. Honda will not lose the engineering race towards the upper grid.

[Beri]

This rumor indeed that I have not heard of could only happen when Honda to support RedBull and RedBull decide to give Honda a shot by giving operational capacity of AT while maintaining the ownership.

Honda is large enough for Red Bull to trust its financial side and for RedBull technology to have serious pie in this role. Honda will not lose the engineering race towards the upper grid.

 

Remember how quick Honda went from the moment they were leaving McLaren to becoming race winners and a title contender? That was in part because Toro Rosso ran as a test mule in 2018 before entering at Red Bull in 2019. So running 2 teams definitely helps.

Edited by Beri, 13 July 2022 - 11:24.

[Bleu]

I don't know how realistic it is but six power unit manufacturers and each having two teams would be quite good.

[absinthedude]

Was it something to do with the Toyota entry? It seemed to stem from that era, and there was supposed to be 24 cars in 2002 but Prost never made it to the season.

 

That sounds plausible. It would have been around that time that Bernie announced 24 cars was the limit because it was somehow the deal number. 

[kumo7]

Remember how quick Honda went from the moment they were leaving McLaren to becoming race winners and a title contender? That was in part because Toro Rosso ran as a test mule in 2018 before entering at Red Bull in 2019. So running 2 teams definitely helps.

 

The view to Honda back on the F1 grid, could only be materialized when it dort out E future. It seems Honda is still struggling.

Should Honda fail to do so, then I say it will never be there.

 

That sounds plausible. It would have been around that time that Bernie announced 24 cars was the limit because it was somehow the deal number. 

 

Toyota to end LeMans? 

[Nathan]

What a stupidly run company.

[FullThrottleF1]

The Stellantis group includes both Alfa Romeo and Maserati who each have a very respectable F1 history.  And Rikky von Opel raced in F1.

 

So Stellantis have hugely more credibility in F1 than Audi!

So not only do we have no independent teams allowed to join (e.g. Andretti) the existing privateers will also disappear from the grid as well. Anyone getting 2008/9 vibes from all of this? 

 

One of these manufacturers is gonna end up last and then leave, if not more. Seems those in F1 have very short memories and are just seeking to cash in because for the first time in 30 years they have people queuing out of the door.

 

Meanwhile, we are almost certainly going to have another recession within the next few years. Make you wonder what they are thinking over there...

[Jops14]

So not only do we have no independent teams allowed to join (e.g. Andretti) the existing privateers will also disappear from the grid as well. Anyone getting 2008/9 vibes from all of this?

One of these manufacturers is gonna end up last and then leave, if not more. Seems those in F1 have very short memories and are just seeking to cash in because for the first time in 30 years they have people queuing out of the door.

Meanwhile, we are almost certainly going to have another recession within the next few years. Make you wonder what they are thinking over there...

Couldnt agree more

[William Hunt]

As I had mentioned in another thread a month ago, the rumour I heard is that Honda would not return just as an engine manufacturere but with their own new team. 

[kumo7]

As I had mentioned in another thread a month ago, the rumour I heard is that Honda would not return just as an engine manufacturere but with their own new team. 

 

I read that Honda said it does not close the door to F1, if F1 is becoming more sustainable. Nothing more.

 

[FullThrottleF1]

As I had mentioned in another thread a month ago, the rumour I heard is that Honda would not return just as an engine manufacturere but with their own new team. 

Doubt. Only Toyota has ever done that

[William Hunt]

Doubt. Only Toyota has ever done that

 

And Toyota never should have left. Maybe they could be interested to come back one day. In particular now that they've won Le Mans multiple times. They might want another challenge, Toyota is a huge company: they were the biggest car manufacturer in the world in 2021. They can afford to try it again.

Edited by William Hunt, 14 July 2022 - 14:44.

[eibyyz]

Meanwhile, we are almost certainly going to have another recession within the next few years. 

 

You're awfully optimistic :-)

[FirstnameLastname]

And Toyota never should have left. Maybe they could be interested to come back one day. In particular now that they've won Le Mans multiple times. They might want another challenge, Toyota is a huge company: they were the biggest car manufacturer in the world in 2021. They can afford to try it again.

Yeah - they could hire Gary Anderson to design the car, and then get some star drivers like Di Resta and Kubica

And then quit and wonder where it all went wrong

[William Hunt]

Hyundai have, over the years, become a large car manufacturer who sell worldwide. They're in the top 10 of biggest car manufacturers in the world. They're currently active in WRC & touring cars and they migh enter Le Mans in the future with a hydrogen car. But I wonder if they're going to show interest in F1 one day.

 

Then you've got several large Chinese manufacturers like SAIC Motor (MG, Roewe, Maxus), Geely, Great Wall... with a Chinese driver now in F1 they might show interest one day.

 

And why would Ford not return? They have a long history in F1 yet people seem to dismiss the possibility that they might return, why? 

Edited by William Hunt, 14 July 2022 - 18:59.

[KWSN - DSM]

It is a losing proposition for a Manufacturer to enter F1 if they do not win, if the 10 teams (which seems all F1 wants) were 10 manufacturers you could have 5 of them outside the points every race - The infatuation with manufacturers by F1 is bad not good.

1. Ferrari
2. Ferrari
3. Alpine
4. Alpine
5. Mercedes
6. Mercedes
7. BMW
8. BMW
9. Honda
10. Honda
11. Toyota
12. Toyota
13. Hyundai
14. Hyundai
15. Porsche
16. Porsche
17. Mazda
18. Mazda
19. Audi
20. Audi

[mclarensmps]

I would actually love to see Hyundai get involved in F1 and see what they can do. They'd  probably join as Genesis, and they are fantastic, I mean really REALLY fantastic cars. 

[FullThrottleF1]

It is a losing proposition for a Manufacturer to enter F1 if they do not win, if the 10 teams (which seems all F1 wants) were 10 manufacturers you could have 5 of them outside the points every race - The infatuation with manufacturers by F1 is bad not good.

• Ferrari
• Ferrari
• Alpine
• Alpine
• Mercedes
• Mercedes
• BMW
• BMW
• Honda
• Honda
• Toyota
• Toyota
• Hyundai
• Hyundai
• Porsche
• Porsche
• Mazda
• Mazda
• Audi
• Audi

"Those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it"

[statman]

interview with the president on a Japanese website:

 

https://www.as-web.jp/f1/838129?all

 

We are also very interested in watching F1 trends. But that doesn't mean we're going back to F1 anytime soon. Right now, we are going to develop the technology that we have decided, so there is no discussion about returning to F1.

 

 Basically, we finished F1 activities as Honda last year, so there is no particular frustration in that sense. I am in the position of Honda and the president of HRC, but as HRC, I receive the request of Red Bull and provide technical support according to their request. Therefore, there is no frustration in the current situation as we are cooperating at the request of Red Bull rather than developing and manufacturing the power unit on our own initiative.

[BRG]

So that's clear then. The big man says they are out.

 

So expect Honda to be back, and soon!

[F1 Mike]

This is what comes to mind...

https://youtu.be/ufndD8lq95E