567 replies to this topic

[cpbell]

I do not wish to undermine the official French GP thread, but, as a student of motor racing history, I thought I might mention a few interesting historical links relating to the race this year.

 

100 years ago, what is now the French GP was the GP de l'ACF, the ACF being the French car club.  In fact, in some years, there was both an official ACF Grand Prix and a "GP de France".  It was the second post-WWI French GP, and 1922 was only the second year in which another country hosted a Grand Prix (this being Italy, whose race that year was held on a newly-constructed track called...Monza. )

 

Anyway, back to France.  That year's GP was held on a triangular road course just west of Strasbourg.  It was to run over 60 laps over an 8.55 mile (13.38 km) course, but, owing to the slow top speed of cars that year (thanks to a reduction in capacity limit from 3 litres to 2) the winner took over 6 hours to complete the race.  The first link to this year's race is that 1922 marked the first international appearance of Aston Martin, who entered two cars.  Sadly, due to confusion regarding the rules, their cars only had 1.5 litre engines and so were outclassed.  The second point of note is that this race was the first time that the GP de l'ACF had featured a massed start.  Previously, all GPs were time trials like the Isle of Man TT, with cars setting-off singly or in pairs.  Following Indianapolis practice, the ACF decided on a rolling start, but, unusually, behind a motorcycle that was swamped by the first 2 rows of cars before getting to the line!

Edited by cpbell, 17 July 2022 - 11:31.

[Pete_f1]

Very interesting 😊

[cpbell]

Very interesting

Thanks!

[PayasYouRace]

I think you’ve made a great French GP build up thread OP to be honest.

[Collombin]

a student of motor racing history

Considering some of the laughable degree courses on offer these days, this really needs to be one. Think of how many different modules there could be to choose from and how much fun it would be.

Edited by Collombin, 17 July 2022 - 11:38.

[ANF]

Race highlights:


The same film in Italian:

[Sterzo]

Great opening post, cp.

 

I would add that the winner of the race was Felice Nazzaro, whose name should feature in any "greatest driver" discussions, but rarely does. He was second in the first ever Grand Prix in 1906. In 1907, there were three major events, including the Grand Prix, and he won all of them driving FIATs. He came back to racing after the First World War, adapting to completely different cars, and was aged 40 when he won the Grand Prix again.

Edited by Sterzo, 17 July 2022 - 11:54.

[Alan Lewis]

1922 was a bittersweet win for Felice, his nephew Biagio being killed during the event.

[RC127]

Well the forecast is for a very hot and sunny weekend at Le Castellet, with temperatures reaching 34 degrees in unbroken skies h under baking hot sunshine. So a) will this mean tyre deg is high even on a billiard smooth surface such as Paul Ricard and b) does anyone foresee the 2022 rules set building on what was probably the best French GP in the modern era since this track returned and us enjoying another thrilling race of which there have been a decent amount this year (even if the championship is still very much in the control of the champ at present)?

[cpbell]

I think you’ve made a great French GP build up thread OP to be honest.

Thanks! 

[cpbell]

Great opening post, cp.

 

I would add that the winner of the race was Felice Nazzaro, whose name should feature in any "greatest driver" discussions, but rarely does. He was second in the first ever Grand Prix in 1906. In 1907, there were three major events, including the Grand Prix, and he won all of them driving FIATs. He came back to racing after the First World War, adapting to completely different cars, and was aged 40 when he won the Grand Prix again.

I rate Nazzaro as one of the Greats of the pre-1914 era, with the likes of Charron, Thery (excuse omission of diacritic), Hemery, Boillot etc.

Edited by cpbell, 17 July 2022 - 14:59.

[absinthedude]

I rate Nazzaro as one of the Greats of the pre-1914 era, with the likes of Charron, Thery (excuse omission of diacritic), Hemery, Boillot etc.

 

Nazzaro gets a lot of mentions in books about early motor racing. Definitely acknowledged as one of the greats.

 

My handfasted partner is a blood relative of Fernand Charron, on her father's side. Indeed there are still Charrons in Texas building race cars to this day, descended from the great man. They all have his distinctive chin, including my handfasted wife. 

[AlexS]

0:52  on 2nd video of ANF post  Pirelli was already there.

[cpbell]

Nazzaro gets a lot of mentions in books about early motor racing. Definitely acknowledged as one of the greats.

 

My handfasted partner is a blood relative of Fernand Charron, on her father's side. Indeed there are still Charrons in Texas building race cars to this day, descended from the great man. They all have his distinctive chin, including my handfasted wife. 

Yes, you've mentioned the US Charrons on TNF.  Fascinating that the racing instinct still exists.

[DeKnyff]

First Grand Prix ever was the ACF Grand Prix of 1906.

 

Half of the cars that finished that race were from teams that still, somehow, exist in Formula One 116 years later: Mercedes, Renault and Fiat.

[cpbell]

First Grand Prix ever was the ACF Grand Prix of 1906.

 

Half of the cars that finished that race were from teams that still, somehow, exist in Formula One 116 years later: Mercedes, Renault and Fiat.

Yes, but wouldn't it be fantastic to have Brasier, Panhard, de Dietrich , Darracq etc. still around?

Edited by cpbell, 17 July 2022 - 17:20.

[cpbell]

Great opening post, cp.

 

I would add that the winner of the race was Felice Nazzaro, whose name should feature in any "greatest driver" discussions, but rarely does. He was second in the first ever Grand Prix in 1906. In 1907, there were three major events, including the Grand Prix, and he won all of them driving FIATs. He came back to racing after the First World War, adapting to completely different cars, and was aged 40 when he won the Grand Prix again.

GP, Targa Florio and Kaiserpreis.

[BRG]

Yes, but wouldn't it be fantastic to have Brasier, Panhard, de Dietrich , Darracq etc. still around?

Arguably both Panhard and Darracq have ended up in the Stellantis group, which is in F1 via its Alfa Romeo marque.

 

Tenuous, but...

[cpbell]

Arguably both Panhard and Darracq have ended up in the Stellantis group, which is in F1 via its Alfa Romeo marque.

 

Tenuous, but...

Interesting

[noriaki]

To continue the slight off topic of the 1900s marques - Isotta-Fraschini didn't participate in the French GP but were involved in racing back then, winning the Targa Florio among other races. Now the name is getting "revived" as Williams and Michelotto are collaborating for a Le Mans hypercar effort, targeting a debut next year...

[cpbell]

To continue the slight off topic of the 1900s marques - Isotta-Fraschini didn't participate in the French GP but were involved in racing back then, winning the Targa Florio among other races. Now the name is getting "revived" as Williams and Michelotto are collaborating for a Le Mans hypercar effort, targeting a debut next year...

Really?

[Sterzo]

Arguably both Panhard and Darracq have ended up in the Stellantis group, which is in F1 via its Alfa Romeo marque.

 

Tenuous, but...

Tenuous, but reinforced by the fact that Darracq set up an Italian factory to build cars for that market, which went bust before it started and became the A.L.F.A. company. I've lost count how often Alfa Romeo (as it became) went bust, was rescued, taken over, or subsidised - even now Stellantis are talking of a "new launch". And engineers who were with Fiat for that 1922 Grand Prix, moved over to Alfa Romeo and made its name with the 1924 Lyon win.

[Beri]

Great post CP!

[cpbell]

Great post CP!

[vlado]

I think another historical thing might occur.. the track would actually melt away 

[JimmyClark]

I think another historical thing might occur.. the track would actually melt away

Given all the curves and waves patterns and endless homogeneity of asphalt, I'm not sure we would be able to tell the difference if it did.

[jonpollak]

Any chance of rain?
Jp

[r4mses]

I think another historical thing might occur.. the track would actually melt away 

 

And none of us would miss it.

[TomNokoe]

This thread was very prescient, cpbell, as the weekend schedule says "1922 Aston Martin Laps" on Thursday afternoon.

[Risil]

And Paul Ricard is just down the road from Miramas, right? Which once hosted a Grand Prix so bad that the crowd rioted. Or did I misremember that bit.

[Alan Lewis]

The 1926 GP de l'ACF at Miramas was the one where only the three Bugattis started and Jules Goux was the only one to cover the full distance.

[Wuzak]

This could be the last French GP for a while? Possibly off the calendar next year. 

 

Possibly no Spa either.

[FLB]

And Paul Ricard is just down the road from Miramas, right? Which once hosted a Grand Prix so bad that the crowd rioted. Or did I misremember that bit.

And was sometimes used as a test track.

 

[JimmyClark]

Well if this is the official build up thread now, then let's talk about the weather. It looks like it will be very hot, and if I recall the asphalt here is very dark? Could be a tyre killer, and given reliability issues this year, could be a bit of a car breaker too (watch out, Ferrari).

Also the warm up issues that Mercedes suffer will be non existent, so with their reliability and good tyre management, a cheeky bet on Lewis Hamilton at 10.0 with most bookies seems like good value (and George Russell at around 17/18).

Edited by JimmyClark, 19 July 2022 - 13:25.

[cpbell]

This thread was very prescient, cpbell, as the weekend schedule says "1922 Aston Martin Laps" on Thursday afternoon.

Interesting!  I think the car Count Zbrowski drove (or it might be the Clive Gallop car) survives.

[cpbell]

The 1926 GP de l'ACF at Miramas was the one where only the three Bugattis started and Jules Goux was the only one to cover the full distance.

Worst GP ever, not 2005 Indy.

[cpbell]

Here is the surviving GP Aston - Green Pea:

 

[Risil]

The 1926 GP de l'ACF at Miramas was the one where only the three Bugattis started and Jules Goux was the only one to cover the full distance.

 

Thanks. And it was the 1927 Grand Prix de Provence (not considered a Grand Epreuve) where a riot broke out.

 

As for the 1926 Grand Prix de l'ACF, all three drivers competed without helmets which should have resulted in their disqualification.

[Collombin]

Worst GP ever, not 2005 Indy.

Last year's Spa wasn't an all time classic.

[Sterzo]

I think the car Count Zbrowski drove (or it might be the Clive Gallop car) survives.

You're right, it was Zbrowski's car. Odd that it's been repainted dark green, though obviously good that it's still competing. For years it enlivened VSCC meetings in true pea-green paint.

[ANF]

No changes to the DRS zones according to the circuit map.

[FLB]

Chris Medland sur Twitter : "Nyck de Vries will replace Lewis Hamilton in FP1 at the French Grand Prix for Mercedes, as part of the need to give rookies two FP1 sessions a year #F1 #FrenchGP" / Twitter

[cpbell]

You're right, it was Zbrowski's car. Odd that it's been repainted dark green, though obviously good that it's still competing. For years it enlivened VSCC meetings in true pea-green paint.

I wondered why it was dark green!

[Sterzo]

I wondered why it was dark green!

Using the wrong green is pea-ing into the wind of history.

[BerniesDad]

Love the not-very-subtle sidepod winglets on those 1922 cars. I presume that they are mudguards?

[cpbell]

Love the not-very-subtle sidepod winglets on those 1922 cars. I presume that they are mudguards?

Not sure what you're referring to.

[LolaB0860]

I liked this circuit, even in it's ridiculous asphalt form, when it was originally part of the FIA GT and Le Mans Series years and years ago. For multiclass racing it worked fine and was also good for night racing. Before the F1 revamp had capacity for like 4000 people lol. But it doesn't provide much of anything here and I won't be sad when it's killed off from F1. It will be a nightmare for track violation warning especially for F2. Also the fact that they never used full Mistral straight for F1 is stupid, the chicane is lame. The Grand Prix last year was eventful (was it that race that really boosted the fake cheering trend to max???) but that doesn't really mean much.

 

At least the horrible 40-45 celcius killer heat waves terrorizing Europe and even part of France are not present at Castellet.

 

Anyhow, I'm one of those people who thinks Magny-Cours was perfectly fine and should have the French GP. If we cannot have La Sarthe that is still the choice for me. And instead of Saudi Arabia or Nicaragua or Vanuatu or Detroit, France should always have GP somewhere. Well, as long as it doesn't needlessly extend the already exhausting calendar length.

Edited by LolaB0860, 20 July 2022 - 21:29.

[SophieB]

@fergieweather

#F1 #BBCF1 #FRENCHGP OUTLOOK: Dry, sunny & hot conditions extend through this event, with temperature in the lower 30's C, rising by Sunday to around 34C. A mostly southwesterly to west-southwesterly breeze, picking-up on Sat but lighter on Fri & Sun. Track temps in the 50's C

[PayasYouRace]

The non-specialist press are having an absolute field day with headlines about Lewis being banned from driving this weekend. Basically they’re just doing a poor job of reporting the FP1 young drivers rule.

It’s great that F1 is reaching more people now, but the press need to keep up and report things better.

[Jones Foyer]

Anyhow, I'm one of those people who thinks Magny-Cours was perfectly fine and should have the French GP. If we cannot have La Sarthe that is still the choice for me. And instead of Saudi Arabia or Nicaragua or Vanuatu or Detroit, France should always have GP somewhere. Well, as long as it doesn't needlessly extend the already exhausting calendar length.

The best thing about the circuit is it gives me an excuse to drink a cold glass of pastis while I watch the race. I don’t drink the Paul Ricard brand though.