Jump to content


Photo

Sportsmanship


  • Please log in to reply
65 replies to this topic

#1 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 11,126 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 21 July 2022 - 20:02

From our sofa grandstand this afternoon we watched the gripping - and I do mean gripping - Stage 18 of this year's Tour de France cycle race, courtesy of Eurosport TV.  In recent years my Missis and I have become increasingly hooked by such major-league road racing for bicycles, and for three major reasons... 

 

Firstly, these riders are either the most phenomenal athletes or simply bionic man machines - or they really are fuelled by drugs of such unreal capability why aren't we all issued with them as by right?  

 

Secondly, the sight of wheeled competition on 'natural' roads of real challenge and majesty is utterly denied to us now apart from Irish and Manx TT motor-cycling, and while I have immense respect for all road racing motor-cyclists I am not particularly attracted to the machinery.  

 

Thirdly, many of the classical Tour de France Stages include sections, cols and mountains which were once inhabited by very serious cars, driven by very serious drivers, not only in the Tour de France Automobile but also by many of the great European rallies - so there is real motor sporting history in them thar hills, sadly only used today by sweating blokes - and gels - in Lycra and on bikes.

 

Today the TdF field attacked the great Col d'Aubisque of past motor sporting fame in the Pyrenees, followed by the Col du Soulor and the Col de Spandelles before the finally bone-breaking climb to Hautacam.

 

For the past two weeks and more, Tour dominance has been fought out between two truly outstanding young riders; winner of the past two Tours, Slovenian Tadej Pogacar, and Danish hope Jonas Vingegaard. On today's very fast and tricky descent of the Spandelles, Pogacar was flying in the attempt to build a gap over Vingegaard.  In a tight left-hander the Dane had a heart-stopping broadside moment with his rear wheel hopping clear of the planet.  With Verstappen-style reflex he caught the broadside moment but lost some yards to his challenger who charged clear.

 

Only a few hundred metres further down the descent, the Dane re-caught the Slovenian and into another deceptively tight left-hander Pogacar slid wide, got onto gravel, lost front-wheel adhesion and crashed.  Vingegaard whizzed clear and tore off down the hill.  Here was his chance to add many more seconds to his leading time cushion.  Pogacar remounted and charged into the pursuit, shorts torn, grazed and bleeding. 

 

And Vingegaard looked back, and instead of blazing on he sat up, slowed and waited for Pogacar to re-catch him.  

 

The latter offered his hand in gratitude, they shook hands, and battle resumed.  Pogacar would finally break on the last climb, Vingegaard drawing out another minute to build his existing - and now possibly decisive - lead in the Tour.

 

It struck me at the time that such a gesture, a great competitor seeing his main rival stumble and lose time when both are locked in potentially decisive battle for a great - and extremely lucrative - prize, is something which made me instinctively think "That wouldn't happen in motor racing". 

 

Indeed, if Vingegaard had been Stirling Moss and Stirl had just seen his main threat lose time like that he would have stretched simply EVERY sinew to take all possible advantage and maximise that opportunity to hammer his opponent into the ground!  Especially if there had been a few bob at stake...

 

Can anyone think of similar instances - top drivers, fighting for top honours, hammer and tongs - one slips and the other - rather than pressing home the advantage of that gift - waits for his rival to catch up so they can resume equal battle?

 

Of course, this might have been a sublime piece of sporting psychology, Vingegaard totally doing a number on Pogacar's mind, but the first word that sprang to all the commentators' and pundit's mind was 'sportsmanship'.  Extraordinary to see.

 

DCN


Edited by Doug Nye, 21 July 2022 - 20:06.


Advertisement

#2 Bloggsworth

Bloggsworth
  • Member

  • 9,112 posts
  • Joined: April 07

Posted 21 July 2022 - 20:55

Not wheeled sport, but at the finish of last year's Masters golf championship won by Hideki Matsuyama, his caddie replace the flag on the 18th hole, turned, and bowed to the course, saying afterwards "Such a great course deserves respect." I've never seen a driver bowing to Spa...



#3 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 24,590 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 21 July 2022 - 20:55

For all its bad rep over doping, pro-cycling often displays levels of sporting behaviour missing from most other sports.  There are unspoken rules about not attacking if a rider has a puncture or other mechanical woes.  I think the fact that they spend hours literally elbow to elbow  in the peloton tends to build up a camaraderie and degree of fellow feeling absent in other sports.  Also there is a strong element of quid pro quo, or do as you would be done by.

 

But an amazing stage today on Le Tour and a very worthy winner, if he can keep it upright for the last few days.   The Grand Depart was in Denmark and a Dane wins?  Boy's Own paper stuff really.



#4 PCC

PCC
  • Member

  • 934 posts
  • Joined: August 06

Posted 21 July 2022 - 21:10

There are unspoken rules about not attacking if a rider has a puncture or other mechanical woes.  I think the fact that they spend hours literally elbow to elbow  in the peloton tends to build up a camaraderie and degree of fellow feeling absent in other sports.

Also, the final stage into the Champs-Élysées is run largely as a coronation for the yellow jersey. The stage win is hotly contested, but the big prize is conceded. Admittedly the leader's advantage is often unassailable by this time, but it clearly lacks the desperate ruthlessness that we generally see in F1.



#5 Lee Nicolle

Lee Nicolle
  • Member

  • 10,660 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 22 July 2022 - 04:18

Sorry Doug but bicycle racing makes no real sense. And blocks up a LOT of roads wherever they are. Hindering everyday business. 

And the attitude of the wannabes during Adelaides dumb event  should have more flat wannabes. As they disobey every road rules and go places where they are not welcome,, private property etc.

Veledrome racing while not me is at least racing. 



#6 Garsted

Garsted
  • Member

  • 171 posts
  • Joined: October 10

Posted 22 July 2022 - 06:57

I agree with all you say about the Tour de France, but think you do Moss a bit of a disservice; I don't recall the exact circumstances but didn't he speak up for Mike Hawthorn when some penalty was being considered, ultimately to Stirling's cost?
Steve

#7 Collombin

Collombin
  • Member

  • 6,906 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 22 July 2022 - 07:14

I guess Doug mentioned Moss in order to make it clear that he is only interested in hearing about examples of the specific type of sportsmanship displayed by Vingegaard.

#8 Doug Nye

Doug Nye
  • Member

  • 11,126 posts
  • Joined: February 02

Posted 22 July 2022 - 07:55

Garsted - yes, absolutely correct. Moss went into bat on Hawthorn's behalf immediately after the 1958 Portuguese GP, when Mike was under investigation for proceeding on track in the reverse direction of racing during recovery from a spin. Stirling told the stewards he had seen Mike doing so, but he was clearly on the pedestrian pavement at the time, so not on the track.  The stewards accordingly found Hawthorn not guilty.  Hawthorn of course had conspicuously delayed the start of a Libre race in Scotland, some years earlier, by dawdling around nattering on the grid while one of the BRM V16s was undergoing cardiac massage.  He told the crew "Don't worry, they can't start it without us" or something similar.  

 

And yes, Collombin's comment re my intent above is also correct - in-event compensation - I can't think of a significant example, but I feel sure there must have been some? Perhaps in rallying rather than racing?

 

To be brutally honest, they generally seemed to be nicer people...   :smoking:

 

And Lee - post 5 - on non-race days I largely sympathise, but - I promise you - study the Tour's most testing stages, or the race on cobbles in the Paris-Roubaix and whatever passes for racing on velodromes utterly pales into the same kind of pale imitation that 'Grand Prix' racing does at Bahrain or Aberdovey...or, most decidedly, at Nivelles of long-buried memory.

 

DCN


Edited by Doug Nye, 22 July 2022 - 08:00.


#9 Parkesi

Parkesi
  • Member

  • 173 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 22 July 2022 - 08:55

Rally: Cesare Fiorio/San Remo.
Sportsmanship or last chance for his buddy Munari to win the rally?
“In 1976 Lancia team boss Cesare Fiorio held up Bjorn Waldegard so that he would start into the final stage with same total time as Sandro Munari.
Enraged Swede flew through the stage to win by four seconds."

#10 Colbul1

Colbul1
  • Member

  • 288 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 22 July 2022 - 09:07

There was a fabulous scene at the end of stage 17 atop Peyragudes where the team mates of Fabio Jakobsen screamed encouragement to him as he desperately pedalled to the finish line and made it under the cut off by 15 seconds to stay in the race.  For the TdF finishing in Paris is a major success.  Equally, team tactics and orders do show the cracks, I remember Chris Froome in 2012 being reminded of his position in the team and not to attack Bradley Wiggins, and this year Wout van Aert had to be reminded of his position in the team and told to slow down for Jonas Vingegaard.



#11 BRG

BRG
  • Member

  • 24,590 posts
  • Joined: September 99

Posted 22 July 2022 - 09:18

And yes, Collombin's comment re my intent above is also correct - in-event compensation - I can't think of a significant example, but I feel sure there must have been some? Perhaps in rallying rather than racing?

Rallying is perhaps a less adversarial type of motorsport, as there is (usually) no direct on track confrontation.  It is generally very friendly competition, even at the higher levels. 

 

At clubbie level, it was always very friendly.  I have often seen a car crawl into service after an 'off' or with a  mechanical issue, only to see other teams pitch in to help fix it.  I recall one occasion, a couple in VW Golf - newcomers to rallying that no-one seemed to know - came in  to service with a severely dinged front wing.  Whilst they were explaining what happened, they were amazed to find a bunch of total strangers attacking the car's bodywork and setting it right without being asked.



#12 sabrejet

sabrejet
  • Member

  • 750 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 22 July 2022 - 09:28

I don't think van Aert needed a reminder of his position: I suspect that he was given orders to go for the win if he could, but when it became obvious that he wouldn't be able to make a decisive move he dropped back to support his team leader. But for sure, anyone who dismisses van Aert as not being a GC rider should watch him competing in (and often winning) cyclocross events in the depths of winter when many a tour rider would be taking a few months off.

 

Expect to see Wout near/at the front in the time trial and on the Champs Elysees too. His team already seems guaranteed the yellow, green and polka-dot jerseys which is a pretty good haul without considering stage wins (four so far and three realistically up for grabs). All of which reminds me that it would be good to see the Jumbo colours back in WEC!



#13 GTMRacer

GTMRacer
  • Member

  • 102 posts
  • Joined: October 16

Posted 22 July 2022 - 10:43

Sorry Doug but bicycle racing makes no real sense. And blocks up a LOT of roads wherever they are. Hindering everyday business. 

And the attitude of the wannabes during Adelaides dumb event  should have more flat wannabes. As they disobey every road rules and go places where they are not welcome,, private property etc.

Veledrome racing while not me is at least racing. 

 

You clearly have no interest in or knowledge of bicycle road racing and its joys, Mr Nye has seen it for what it is, despite that nasty period of extreme doping it is full of sportsmen and very accessible to all.

I have ridden up many of those mountain passes over the years and the Tour is brilliant for allowing us mere mortals to ride the same roads as our heroes, on the same day as well.

Mr Nye, if you want a good read on what it means to ride these great races (and they are races, full of tactics and excitement if you know what to look for) this book is marvellous.

Jean Bobet was a self confessed Anglophile and writer, as well as a loyal Domestique to his brother, Louison.

 

https://www.watersto...y/9781874739517



#14 sabrejet

sabrejet
  • Member

  • 750 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 22 July 2022 - 10:46

I'd suggest Paul Kimmage's book "It's not about the Bike". An enlightening look at the life of a domestique. Also Tyler Hamilton's book is a very interesting read.



#15 Frank Verplanken

Frank Verplanken
  • Member

  • 374 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 22 July 2022 - 12:11


Thirdly, many of the classical Tour de France Stages include sections, cols and mountains which were once inhabited by very serious cars, driven by very serious drivers, not only in the Tour de France Automobile but also by many of the great European rallies - so there is real motor sporting history in them thar hills, sadly only used today by sweating blokes - and gels - in Lycra and on bikes.

 

And not just rallies too, but also sometimes old natural road courses. I really don't care for cycling, but I did watch a stage some years back because I knew they would go through the old Comminges circuit in Saint-Gaudens. It was nice to see that an old grandstands carved in a small hill beside the road was still there.

 

I agree sportsmanship seems to be more common in rallying than circuit racing. Someone like Andrew Cowan always seemed like such a gent, I remember him several times refusing to give team orders to his Mitsubishi drivers and letting the sport do its stuff.

 

One example that comes to mind in circuit racing is I think the 1988 BTCC finale, when Ford Motorsport Europe boss (can't remember his name) explained prior to the race that there would not be team orders despite the fact that Brancatelli (who was having a one-off drive in the series) and his Eggenberger Sierra could potentially prevent Andy Rouse from beating Frank Sytner's BMW for the title. Something along the lines "the paying spectator came to see a race, not a Ford circus act" - always nice to hear.

 

There used to be a lot of instances of a driver or team lending a part, and sometimes a complete car, to another competitor who had suffered problems in practice, so that he could start in the race. Not sure that happens at all nowadays ?



#16 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 76,190 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 22 July 2022 - 12:55

Lending a part? Yes indeed...

 

At the Australian Grand Prix in 1962, Jack Brabham scored a cylinder liner very early on practice day. Bruce McLaren loaned him his spare engine.

 

Sure, Bruce was running a 2.7 and the engine he loaned Jack was a 2.5, but it was Jack who set the lap record in the race.

 

There was another example in New Zealand, brain fog prevents me bringing it to the fore at the moment. Moss and Brabham?



#17 Frank Verplanken

Frank Verplanken
  • Member

  • 374 posts
  • Joined: July 04

Posted 22 July 2022 - 13:25

Exactly ! These things seemed to have been more frequent in overseas races for obvious reasons : European teams were far away from their base and their store of parts, and the visiting internationals often had an increased sense of community I guess. Tasman, Temporada, Springbok, late season North American Grands Prix come to mind. Although no specific examples does though lol.



#18 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 57,871 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 22 July 2022 - 15:07

And yes, Collombin's comment re my intent above is also correct - in-event compensation - I can't think of a significant example, but I feel sure there must have been some? Perhaps in rallying rather than racing?

 

I'm not sure if it's quite the same thing, as it smacks of a typical Ecclestone deal, but Rolf Stommelen was left without a ride at the 1976 German Grand Prix when Loris Kessel had John Macdonald and his farm arrested and sequestrated.  So Bernie slapped some spare decals to turn the T-car into number 77 and give Rolf a drive in it.  And Rolf duly scored his final World Championship point.



#19 GTMRacer

GTMRacer
  • Member

  • 102 posts
  • Joined: October 16

Posted 22 July 2022 - 15:31

I once went to a HSCC Finals meeting in my Hillman Imp, as soon as I had parked in the paddock, I was descended upon by 3 chaps asking if I would lend them my Laminated screen, they had done an entire season with a toughened

screen and it was only spotted by an eagle eyed scrut at the final race! I duly obliged and went off the watch my screen bomb round the track!

Upon returning, there was my screen back in place with a new rubber and a thank you note. great thing was, it leaked in heavy rain before that day, never leaked afterwards!  :lol:

Does that count?



Advertisement

#20 Glengavel

Glengavel
  • Member

  • 1,188 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 22 July 2022 - 15:45

I remember reading that BMW helped Jaguar sort out oil surge prevention baffles on the XJ Coupés.

#21 D28

D28
  • Member

  • 1,867 posts
  • Joined: April 14

Posted 23 July 2022 - 12:40

Lending a part? Yes indeed...

 

At the Australian Grand Prix in 1962, Jack Brabham scored a cylinder liner very early on practice day. Bruce McLaren loaned him his spare engine.

 

Sure, Bruce was running a 2.7 and the engine he loaned Jack was a 2.5, but it was Jack who set the lap record in the race.

 

There was another example in New Zealand, brain fog prevents me bringing it to the fore at the moment. Moss and Brabham?

That would be the 1959 New Zealand Grand Prix, Ardmore. Moss broke a drive shaft while leading his heat and had to push to the finish.

Jack wrote there was only one spare for a Cooper in all of New Zealand and it was in his spares kit. His dilemma, lend to Moss and give up an almost  certain win?  Jack did the sportsmanship thing, and Moss lapped everyone up to him in second.

Stirling mentioned this story at Jack's memorial service.



#22 Michael Oliver

Michael Oliver
  • Member

  • 1,054 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 24 July 2022 - 08:07

I think it was also very sporting when Innes Ireland offered his works Lotus 21 to Stirling Moss for the 1961 Italian Grand Prix after Moss's V8-engined 18/21 proved not to be race ready. Stirling still had an outside chance of the title, whereas Innes did not. In making such a gesture I am sure that, in doing so, Innes (driving for an Esso-contracted Team Lotus) did little to help his future prospects, since Stirling drove for BP-contracted Rob Walker...although I feel sure that such a swap could only have occurred with the approval and knowledge of Colin Chapman.

#23 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 7,357 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 24 July 2022 - 08:26

 

 

Indeed, if Vingegaard had been Stirling Moss and Stirl had just seen his main threat lose time like that he would have stretched simply EVERY sinew to take all possible advantage and maximise that opportunity to hammer his opponent into the ground!  Especially if there had been a few bob at stake...

 

 

 

DCN

DSJ wrote in Reflections on the British Grand Prix, 1964:

 

Earlier this season, Graham Hill was leading Clark in a race and, when he lapped some slower cars, the moment he was past he “went like the devil” through the next few corners, leaving Clark to find his way through the slower cars and then catch up. There was no question of Hill waiting for Clark to get by the moving chicane, and this is fair game, for lapping slower cars is all part of Grand Prix driving; if you should see the leading driver holding back and waiting for the second man, as I have often seen, then you know it is not a serious motor race and they are all being “nice young men.” Talking to Hill about this well-known tactic of “pressing off hard” and leaving your rival in a tricky situation, he likened it to rowing-races where, as soon as you see the other team fumble a stroke, your team puts in a strong burst at maximum effort for ten strokes, and it is known as “taking ten.”



#24 robert dick

robert dick
  • Member

  • 1,262 posts
  • Joined: October 02

Posted 26 July 2022 - 15:55

Concerning automobile sportsmanship in general, January 1900:

moag25jan00p517.jpg
 



#25 Dick Dastardly

Dick Dastardly
  • Member

  • 816 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 27 July 2022 - 14:29

I took part in the 1981 London Marathon, the 1st as we know it today [though there were others, with far fewer runners, prior to that]. Anyway, the 1st 2 were battling it out, and were over a minute ahead of the guy who finished 3rd.....so, they decided that as there was no Olympic Medal or similar and it would be a pity for one of them to lose, they finished hand-in-hand, the only time there has been a dead-heat in the race. They were the American Dick Beardsley and the Norwegian Inge Simonsen.

I was too far back to witness it [I finished in around 4 hours] but have seen it many times on TV, notably in the build-up to each year's event. :drunk:

 

I'm not normally into cycle racing but watched the past 2 Tour of Britain races, mainly because the routes came along roads I know well in my home area, so got quite taken with it. And I was hooked on this year's TdF, having watched the ITV highlights each day.....I spent Easter in Copenhagen, so could identify parts of the route on the 1st day :drunk: ..


Edited by Dick Dastardly, 27 July 2022 - 14:33.


#26 philippe7

philippe7
  • Member

  • 2,834 posts
  • Joined: August 03

Posted 27 July 2022 - 16:54

There was a very notable act of sportsmanship during the final round of the 1968 French Formula 3 Championship, at the Albi circuit. François Cevert, who was closely tied in points with Jean-Pierre Jabouille, had an engine breakdown during the warm-up. He was lent some spare parts to do the repairs by another pilot (a certain François Chevalier, who would later go on to be the long serving general manager of Circuit Paul Ricard).  But time was running short and the race was due to be started, so the organisers went to Jabouille and asked him wether he would object to the start being delayed until Cevert was ready. Jabouille kindly obliged, and is quoted as saying : "If François doesn't start, there is no point on me starting either". Cevert won and was crowned champion, Jabouille came second and was beaten to the championship.

 

Sadly, if only to show how exceptional that gesture was from Jabouille, there was an unfortunate sequel to this story : the following year, at the same last race of the championship at the same Albi circuit, the exact similar situation occured .Only this time it was Jabouille whose Matra failed before the start, and François Mazet who was driving the Shell sponsored Tecno instead of Cevert. The organisers went to Pierre Bonin, the Shell competition manager for France, and asked him wether he would accept the start to be delayed - reminding him of what had happened the previous year. The answer was a flat and firm "no". And Mazet was crowned champion.

 

It is said that Cevert (who by then was still a Tecno-Shell driver, but in F2)  later complained to Bonin about his lack of fair play on the occasion, to which Bonin replied : "Mazet is one of our drivers, Jabouille is not"....  end of conversation.


Edited by philippe7, 27 July 2022 - 16:55.


#27 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 57,871 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 27 July 2022 - 17:13

Although of course Jabouille would go on to become a Grand Prix winner, while Mazet would be a terrific answer on Pointless.



#28 sabrejet

sabrejet
  • Member

  • 750 posts
  • Joined: January 09

Posted 27 July 2022 - 17:54

The British Hill Climb championship is probably the last bastion of true sportsmanship in motor sport: we often see competitors helping each other in the event of an 'off', and I've also seen evidence of loaned bodywork among fellow competitors.



#29 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 57,871 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 27 July 2022 - 19:57

I've also seen evidence of loaned bodywork among fellow competitors.

Happens in F1 today.  Q.v. Kelly Piquet.



#30 Dick Dastardly

Dick Dastardly
  • Member

  • 816 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 27 July 2022 - 21:51

The British Hill Climb championship is probably the last bastion of true sportsmanship in motor sport: we often see competitors helping each other in the event of an 'off', and I've also seen evidence of loaned bodywork among fellow competitors.

Not just bodywork.....often happens that a driver will lend a rival his car to share if the latter has an issue with his own...

 

Another instance occurred a few years ago at the Silverstone Classic.....Jake Hill was leading the saloon race with Craig Davies lying 2nd. The latter attempted to take the lead but caused JH to spin and incur some damage to his car. CD slowed and allowed JH to retake the lead, then by defensive driving, prevented anyone else from getting past thus ensuring JH won with a sick motor 


Edited by Dick Dastardly, 28 July 2022 - 17:43.


#31 john aston

john aston
  • Member

  • 2,355 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 28 July 2022 - 05:45

I was there - a lovely gesture. But I don't know about the hillclimb championship being some last lonely beacon of decency. You can see evidence of very supportive ,friendly behaviour in many disciplines I attend - drag racing , Autograss, lots of historic  racing - VSCC , HSCC and CSCC and  I'm sure in many others too .   



#32 Stephen W

Stephen W
  • Member

  • 15,001 posts
  • Joined: December 04

Posted 28 July 2022 - 08:19

Secondly, the sight of wheeled competition on 'natural' roads of real challenge and majesty is utterly denied to us now apart from Irish and Manx TT motor-cycling, and while I have immense respect for all road racing motor-cyclists I am not particularly attracted to the machinery.  

 

DCN

 

Back in 1947 when the British Hillclimb Championship was in its inaugural year the venues used were Bo'ness, Shelsley Walsh, Bouley Bay, Craigantlet and Prescott. All of which are still in use as hillclimb venues. Bouley & Craigantlet are on public roads. From 1950 to 1969 Rest & Be Thankful, another public road venue, was also used. In 1973 another road course, Le Val des Terres, was added to the championship roster. Two road courses on the Isle of Man were also used but for limited times, Tholt-Y-Will in 1968 & 1969 and Lhergy Frissell in 1994 to 1997 - the Manx Classic still uses Lhergy Frissell. 



#33 70JesperOH

70JesperOH
  • Member

  • 73 posts
  • Joined: January 21

Posted 28 July 2022 - 13:14

A bit off, but I think it warrents it's inclusion in this thread anyway.

 

I the early 1970s one of the leading NASCAR team owners Junior Johnson was approached by cigarette company RJ Reynolds to promote their Winston brand. Somehow Junior saw it a better idea that rather than sponsoring his team, Reynolds should sponsor the entire series. Thus the Grand National series of stock cars became the Winston Cup series for the 1972 season.

 

I am aware that this move was not just out of unselfishness but as a way of bringing a lot of new money into the series as a whole, but also the individual races. As one of the leading teams of the period Junior Johnson Racing was bound to win a lot of that prize money anyway.

 

Jesper



#34 Michael Ferner

Michael Ferner
  • Member

  • 6,549 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 28 July 2022 - 14:54

Oh, for the times when sponsors were on the lookout for racing teams... :(



#35 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 76,190 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 28 July 2022 - 15:10

Yes, we certainly gasp for them now, don't we?



#36 70JesperOH

70JesperOH
  • Member

  • 73 posts
  • Joined: January 21

Posted 28 July 2022 - 17:15

Just to clarify things a bit; around the time when RJ Reynolds approached Junior Johnson restriction on cigarette adds on american TV was imposed or near so. But no restriction on mentioning a race series sponsored by Winston.

 

Jesper



#37 Dick Dastardly

Dick Dastardly
  • Member

  • 816 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 28 July 2022 - 17:54

Very recently, at a clubbie meeting at Oulton Park, a driver had his van stolen in front of him....he was injured whilst attempting to stop the robber getting away. Other competitors in the paddock rallied round to help him.....one even lending the victim a van to get home [his driving licence had gone in the van, so wouldn't have been able to hire a replacement].

There have also been other similar instances in the past.

 

2012 Spanish GP....after Maldonado had won, there was a fire in the Williams pit garage....personnel from rival teams rushed in to help save equipment and extinguish the fire



#38 LittleChris

LittleChris
  • Member

  • 3,103 posts
  • Joined: April 01

Posted 28 July 2022 - 18:05

Ronnie Peterson in Austria 1973 letting Emerson through unbidden. I believe that was one of the reasons Emerson always held him in high regard

#39 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 76,190 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 28 July 2022 - 22:20

Jesper, that was the key...

 

Once TV advertising was banned, the cigarette companies had to find opportunities to spend their huge budgets elsewhere.

 

And while doing that, some of it was syphoned off to buy 'legitimate' businesses. Which is why the late Dean Wills would later claim his family fortune came from Coca Cola, W D & H O Wills the tobacco giant bought the Australia Coca Cola Bottlers business and eventually sold off the fags.



Advertisement

#40 Perruqueporte

Perruqueporte
  • Member

  • 118 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 30 July 2022 - 17:05

There was a very notable act of sportsmanship during the final round of the 1968 French Formula 3 Championship, at the Albi circuit. François Cevert, who was closely tied in points with Jean-Pierre Jabouille, had an engine breakdown during the warm-up. He was lent some spare parts to do the repairs by another pilot (a certain François Chevalier, who would later go on to be the long serving general manager of Circuit Paul Ricard).  But time was running short and the race was due to be started, so the organisers went to Jabouille and asked him wether he would object to the start being delayed until Cevert was ready. Jabouille kindly obliged, and is quoted as saying : "If François doesn't start, there is no point on me starting either". Cevert won and was crowned champion, Jabouille came second and was beaten to the championship.
 
Sadly, if only to show how exceptional that gesture was from Jabouille, there was an unfortunate sequel to this story : the following year, at the same last race of the championship at the same Albi circuit, the exact similar situation occured .Only this time it was Jabouille whose Matra failed before the start, and François Mazet who was driving the Shell sponsored Tecno instead of Cevert. The organisers went to Pierre Bonin, the Shell competition manager for France, and asked him wether he would accept the start to be delayed - reminding him of what had happened the previous year. The answer was a flat and firm "no". And Mazet was crowned champion.
 
It is said that Cevert (who by then was still a Tecno-Shell driver, but in F2)  later complained to Bonin about his lack of fair François Chevalier, play on the occasion, to which Bonin replied : "Mazet is one of our drivers, Jabouille is not"....  end of conversation.


François Chevalier is also a wonderfully gifted artist and sculptor, in my opinion. The first piece of art that my wife and I bought is one of his paintings, that we found in the little gallery in Le Castellet where he used to exhibit his work. If you ever come across his book “Le Petit Bugattiste”, do have a look at it - it is full of evocative caricatures featuring Bugattis. I am not at all surprised to learn that someone who can create such beauty was also a good sport.

Christopher W.

#41 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 76,190 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 31 July 2022 - 11:54

Yesterday the Women's Marathon was on at the Commonwealth Games in Birmingham...

 

A Marathon is not a teams event, all runners are out for themselves. But the winner, Jess Stenson, gave credit to one of her fellow runners.

 

At the 20-kilometre point she missed a caffienated drink, but Eloise Wellings handed Jess her bottle. She reckoned she couldn't have won without that.



#42 Zoe

Zoe
  • Member

  • 6,868 posts
  • Joined: July 99

Posted 01 August 2022 - 04:41

Not motor sports, but in snooker the players indicate their own faults if the referee didn't spot them.

 

And then there were - even in modern times - F1 drivers helping out their comrades with lending them a helmet or (I might be mistaken here)  an overall.



#43 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,075 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 01 August 2022 - 05:01

Colin Chapman lent Jack Brabham a complete car at the 1963 Monaco GP.

#44 D-Type

D-Type
  • Member

  • 9,569 posts
  • Joined: February 03

Posted 01 August 2022 - 18:59

Colin Chapman lent Jack Brabham a complete car at the 1963 Monaco GP.

Lent or hired?



#45 Glengavel

Glengavel
  • Member

  • 1,188 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 01 August 2022 - 19:20

Colin Chapman lent Jack Brabham a complete car at the 1963 Monaco GP.

 

Brabham might have considered that a bit of a cleft stick.



#46 Tim Murray

Tim Murray
  • Moderator

  • 24,075 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 01 August 2022 - 19:29

I’ve never seen any suggestion that money changed hands. In The Jack Brabham Story DCN quotes Jack as saying:

There we were, Monaco GP next day - two cars, and only one fit engine. Dan had qualified well, he deserved the engine, so it was fitted into his car that night. Next morning Colin Chapman heard of our predicament and offered me his spare Lotus 25 - the latest monocoque-chassised car with which Jimmy Clark was already on the crest of a wave, winning everywhere.

That was a great gesture by Colin and I was delighted not to miss the race, but I can’t say I liked his car. If I thought my tube-chassised Lotus 24 had been cramped, this Lotus 25 simply redefined the term.



#47 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 7,357 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 02 August 2022 - 09:17

Was Geoff Murdoch involved?



#48 Catalina Park

Catalina Park
  • Member

  • 6,645 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 02 August 2022 - 09:28

Jack lent Dan a car in 1968. 
Bruce lent Dan a car in 1968.
Dan lent Bruce a car in 1967.



#49 Roger Clark

Roger Clark
  • Member

  • 7,357 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 02 August 2022 - 09:55

Jack lent Dan a car in 1968. 
Bruce lent Dan a car in 1968.
Dan lent Bruce a car in 1967.

Was Leo Mehl involved?



#50 Ray Bell

Ray Bell
  • Member

  • 76,190 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 02 August 2022 - 10:01

Dan was also loaned a McLaren in 1970...