463 replies to this topic

[Viryfan]

Porsche has bought 50% of Red Bull Racing, it's official.

They had to declare it to Morocco authorities.

https://www.motorspo...prozent-von-red

[KWSN - DSM]

Porsche has bought 50% of Red Bull Racing, it's official.

They had to declare it to Morocco authorities.

https://www.motorspo...prozent-von-red

 

Good for Red Bull and Porsche.... a 50/50 will at one time or another become a little contentious, one of them should have had just one more share enabling them to break any possible ties. Will we count this as an official Porsche is back in F1 as a manufacturer, or does the partnership make it an interest in an existing team?

[mclarensmps]

I feel like it will be similar to McLaren-Mercedes, and I think that is enough to say Porsche is back in F1 as a manufacturer (Once RB starts using Porsche PUs)

[statman]

Porsche will not only enter Formula 1 as a supplier of the powertrain, but also as a 50 percent partner of Red Bull. This has the advantage that large parts of the power unit can be developed and built under one roof at Red Bull Powertrains in Milton Keynes.

[Ben1445]

Just my two cents but I think they'll do it 

[ARTGP]

Porsche will not only enter Formula 1 as a supplier of the powertrain, but also as a 50 percent partner of Red Bull. This has the advantage that large parts of the power unit can be developed and built under one roof at Red Bull Powertrains in Milton Keynes.

Is Porsche buying 50% of something?

[ARTGP]

Porsche has bought 50% of Red Bull Racing, it's official.
They had to declare it to Morocco authorities.
https://www.motorspo...prozent-von-red

Wow. Unexpected (the ownership stake)

Edited by ARTGP, 27 July 2022 - 14:15.

[owenmahamilton]

I thought Audi were buying 75% of Sauber/Alfa Romeo.

[ARTGP]

I thought Audi were buying 75% of Sauber/Alfa Romeo.

That is also mentioned in the article, but still in negotiations.

[Ben1445]

The thread has kind of drifted from 'Audi' to 'VW via Audi and Porsche' 

[jpm2019]

Strange. So Porsche is the current owner of a team that has 3 more years left regarding to engine deal with a possible competitor of Porsche. Not sure if I would like this as Honda. 

Now that I think about it... Building their own RB Power Trains Engine was the only way this would work for the next 3 years. 

 

[Risil]

The thread has kind of drifted from 'Audi' to 'VW via Audi and Porsche' 

 

Indeed. Good time to split it out.

[juicy sushi]

Porsche has bought 50% of Red Bull Racing, it's official.

They had to declare it to Morocco authorities.

https://www.motorspo...prozent-von-red

Very, very interesting.  This makes it much harder for them to claim extra development credits for 2026, but also is a good way for VAG to get a guaranteed competitive slot in F1.  It also provides Red Bull a convenient way to step back from the racing side into a more business-friendly sponsorship role while still being the title sponsor, which makes sense long term for Red Bull I guess.

[KWSN - DSM]

Honda have a right to be miffed, however love and war... There are always casualties - When will this be effective? Now or 2026? I think Honda still own the IP to the engines, Red Bull Porsche GmbH have to be very, very careful in how they behave around the current engines until 2026.

[vlado]

Strange. So Porsche is the current owner of a team that has 3 more years left regarding to engine deal with a possible competitor of Porsche. Not sure if I would like this as Honda.

Now that I think about it... Building their own RB Power Trains Engine was the only way this would work for the next 3 years.

I really don’t understand how Honda are okay with all of this at all ..

[KWSN - DSM]

I really don’t understand how Honda are okay with all of this at all ..

 

I would think they are very much not okay with it, however I feel confident Red Bull have checked boxes, dotted i's and crossed t's on this one - To an extent Honda have tried to be half pregnant with the setup they have with Red Bull - Red Bull have many faults (and strengths), but they are smart and very cynical.

[juicy sushi]

This might explain why the sale of the IP did not happen, but yes, it seems like a very, very awkward situation for the next 3 years.

[William Hunt]

It's bad news when manufacturers like Porsche buy (in to) existing teams instead of starting their own team, doesn't create more cars on the grid

[pdac]

I really don’t understand how Honda are okay with all of this at all ..

 

Maybe they are not, but they left the door open to it.

[pdac]

It's bad news when manufacturers like Porsche buy (in to) existing teams instead of starting their own team, doesn't create more cars on the grid

 

In my mind this was always going to happen. Nobody wants to start a new team, except Andretti - and we all know what the existing teams think about that.

[Augurk]

Couldn't find it at first, but here it is.

[renzmann]

I think this is also a way for Mateschitz to secure the financial well-being of his baby once he isn't there anymore.

[owenmahamilton]

I wonder if Porsche have any plans to bring in their own Team Principal at some point.

[pdac]

I wonder if Porsche have any plans to bring in their own Team Principal at some point.

 

Yes please.

[Scaboo22]

Finally it's official. Not that it really changes much.

[Scaboo22]

I wonder if Porsche have any plans to bring in their own Team Principal at some point.

 

Lol. Horner isn't leaving anytime soon.

[Viryfan]

Finally it's official. Not that it really changes much.

 

it does weaken the negotiation position from Red Bull as of 2026 regulations as we know that Porsche is already in the f1 house.

[juicy sushi]

I think this is also a way for Mateschitz to secure the financial well-being of his baby once he isn't there anymore.

This does scream exit plan.

[cpbell]

I really don’t understand how Honda are okay with all of this at all ..

Well, it isn't as though Red Bull doesn't have a history of pissing-off engine suppliers...

[efuloni]

I wonder what will be of AlphaTauri in this new configuration. Are they bought aswell or will they continue being just 'redbull'? Will they be bought by someone else? 

[statman]

I wonder what will be of AlphaTauri in this new configuration. Are they bought aswell or will they continue being just 'redbull'? Will they be bought by someone else? 

 

The sister team AlphaTauri will in all probability also start with Porsche power - anything else would be illogical due to the desired synergies between Red Bull Racing and AlphaTauri - but will remain 100 percent in the hands of Red Bull GmbH.

[BRG]

Is this really legit news?  The statement that they had to declare it to the Moroccan anti-trust authorities sounds distinctly odd.  A German company buying into an Austrian owned company based in the UK.  WTF has it got to do with Morocco? 

[Scaboo22]

not sure why Honda is being mentioned, Honda are out and while they still provided support for this year, after the PU freeze it's all RB Powertrains.

[Viryfan]

Is this really legit news?  The statement that they had to declare it to the Moroccan anti-trust authorities sounds distinctly odd.  A German company buying into an Austrian owned company based in the UK.  WTF has it got to do with Morocco? 

 

well here is the link

 

https://conseil-conc...he-Red-Bull.pdf

[Ben1445]

I, too, would also still like to know why we're hearing about this from a Moroccan source to be fair. 

[BRG]

OK, thanks for that.  At least that is an official document rather than an internet rumour, which is something, but I remain mystified about why anyone would want to involve the Moroccan authorities in this.  Must be a tax move, I guess.

[statman]

Is this really legit news?  The statement that they had to declare it to the Moroccan anti-trust authorities sounds distinctly odd.  A German company buying into an Austrian owned company based in the UK.  WTF has it got to do with Morocco? 

 

Porsche and Red Bull had to report their joint project to the antitrust authorities, including in around 20 countries outside the European Union. Legislation in Morocco, for example, stipulates that such applications must be published once they have been approved.

[#99]

Red Bull presents Porsche F1 powered by Honda 😉

[milestone 11]

With a little luck, Honda will walk!

[BRG]

Porsche and Red Bull had to report their joint project to the antitrust authorities, including in around 20 countries outside the European Union. Legislation in Morocco, for example, stipulates that such applications must be published once they have been approved.

So if I want to buy 50% of Rich Energy, I have to get permission from the government of Morocco?  This makes no sense at all.  Who are these other 20 countries that need to approve it?  Tuvalu? Lesotho?  Guyana?  

[Sam1]

So instead of buying out a team 100% there are basically staking in two teams for the price of one.. Smart move

[absinthedude]

I don't think Porsche has bought anything yet.....but clearly there is intent. 

 

But as "William Hunt" says.....crushingly disappointing that all this news just confirms that VAG have no intention of starting any new teams.

 

So....if the naysayers excuse for Andretti not being allowed to enter is that Audi and Porsche are coming with new teams.....what's the excuse now?

[ExFlagMan]

Is this really legit news?  The statement that they had to declare it to the Moroccan anti-trust authorities sounds distinctly odd.  A German company buying into an Austrian owned company based in the UK.  WTF has it got to do with Morocco? 

 

 

I, too, would also still like to know why we're hearing about this from a Moroccan source to be fair. 

 

Autosport web site has the explanation - First details of Porsche’s F1 buy-in of Red Bull revealed (autosport.com)

Edited by ExFlagMan, 27 July 2022 - 16:35.

[MattPete]

Alex Palou is buying the remaining 50%.

[KWSN - DSM]

So if I want to buy 50% of Rich Energy, I have to get permission from the government of Morocco?  This makes no sense at all.  Who are these other 20 countries that need to approve it?  Tuvalu? Lesotho?  Guyana?  

 

If you sell it in Marocco you will have to file according to same rules as Red Bull and Porsche. You are not asking permission, you are following the laws of the country you do business in.

[ARTGP]

This might explain why the sale of the IP did not happen, but yes, it seems like a very, very awkward situation for the next 3 years.

Why does it matter? Mclaren runs Mercedes engines. Aston Martin runs Mercedes engines. Alfa Romeo runs Ferrari engines.

Edited by ARTGP, 27 July 2022 - 16:59.

[Pingguest]

Honda have a right to be miffed, 

 

Why? Honda themselves decided to leave Formula One. 

[KWSN - DSM]

So this part from the Autosport article is interesting

 

"...This week’s notification mentioned only a 50% buy in of Red Bull Technology, but it is understood that the partnership will also extend to the separate F1 team business as well...."

 

I read this to mean that Red Bull in no way is giving up control of Red Bull the F1 racing team, they will welcome hundreds of millions of Porsche Euro's - Control will remain. It is also a 10 year agreement, which legal minds have to clarify does not mean buying in, but likely buying with options to extend the partnership after 10 years?

[KWSN - DSM]

Why? Honda themselves decided to leave Formula One. 

 

Yes and set up with Red Bull for them to become an engine manufacturer in their own right, now they will see Porsche engineers walk in and see everything under the hood - They can be miffed, regardless of them pulling the plug themselves - Red Bull care about Red Bull and no one else, we have seen that repeatedly over the years.

[ARTGP]

Yes and set up with Red Bull for them to become an engine manufacturer in their own right, now they will see Porsche engineers walk in and see everything under the hood - They can be miffed, regardless of them pulling the plug themselves - Red Bull care about Red Bull and no one else, we have seen that repeatedly over the years.

The engines are still designed and manufactured in Japan.

Porsche don’t have access to anything that Mclaren or Aston wouldn’t also have access to buying Merc engines.

If Porsche wanted to enter F1 as a customer team without an engine supply, the current engine manufacturers would have to supply an engine for them.

Edited by ARTGP, 27 July 2022 - 17:03.