Jump to content


Photo
* * * * - 1 votes

Ferrari's strategic incompetence - can Binotto survive?


  • Please log in to reply
324 replies to this topic

Poll: Will Binotto survive? (204 member(s) have cast votes)

Will Binotto survive?

  1. Yes (94 votes [46.08%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 46.08%

  2. No (110 votes [53.92%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 53.92%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#301 William Hunt

William Hunt
  • Member

  • 10,928 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 03 August 2022 - 19:19

Inaki Rueda
inaki-rueda-ferrari-1200x675.jpg



Advertisement

#302 Enzoluis

Enzoluis
  • Member

  • 2,135 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 03 August 2022 - 22:34

Silverstone to me looked like absolutely biggest blunder and one where Binotto was actually happy after, saying they made good decision and that pitting Leclerc would have meant Sainz would have dropped places (but then Leclerc dropped 4...). He said they thought Sainz would defend Leclerc but in the end its solid result...for other 2 I can say incompetence, but Silverstone...they were clearly thinking about Sainz result when denying Leclerc pit entry when he had AMPLE of time to change tires and still get back as first.


Silverstone Binotto were y because was the only time that the team succeded. Look again the box decision in Monaco, they were trying to make a 1-2 with Sainz ahead , tings went wrong and Sainz ended second.
And about yesterday the only explanation for not allowing pass CL in the first stint is because they were thinking in Sainz, they called CL before the tires were done to cover Verstappen in order to defend Sainz if they were thinking in winning with Leclerc Sainz were already between Verstappen and CL. And if they were thinking in keep moreoints for CL they wouldn’t stop a third time he could ended fourth or at least fifth ahead of Sainz.
From a sportive point is crazy, but the other explanation is Binotto is stupid, incompetent and liar and F1-75 shows that he is not incompetent or stupid.

#303 ingegnere

ingegnere
  • Member

  • 719 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 03 August 2022 - 22:37

Just read this today and thought it applies perfectly to this situation:

“Once is happenstance,” Ian Fleming’s Auric Goldfinger tells the spy James Bond in the eponymous novel. “Twice is coincidence. The third time it’s enemy action.”

#304 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 3,818 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 04 August 2022 - 04:07

FZO0-PJBXw-AEFq-JQ.jpg



#305 Afterburner

Afterburner
  • RC Forum Host

  • 9,125 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 04 August 2022 - 04:55

Do not be deceived. Binotto and Rueda are not making "mistakes". They are favoring Sainz. Re think the decisions made by Ferrari in Monaco, Silverstone and Budapest at the light that you want to maximize the Sainz´s result. Every decision become logical and you do not need to think that both are stupids and Binotto´s bosses lazy.

Nope. If they were favoring Sainz, they would have given him a longer first stint on mediums in Hungary (his was like 15 laps to Leclerc’s 25) so that he didn’t have to run ~40 laps on then and then ~20 on softs. Sainz could have run the M-M-S strategy on the same laps as Hamilton and probably won the race for it, so no, I think the strategists just suck.

#306 Konsta

Konsta
  • Member

  • 2,869 posts
  • Joined: November 98

Posted 04 August 2022 - 09:46

Inaki Rueda
inaki-rueda-ferrari-1200x675.jpg

Inept Rueda´s analysis after Hungaroring. It is what it is - I don´t know.



#307 1player

1player
  • Member

  • 1,166 posts
  • Joined: March 21

Posted 04 August 2022 - 09:48

FZO0-PJBXw-AEFq-JQ.jpg


What is that? Leclerc's points if nobody ever made a single mistake and Verstappen wasn't a factor? I would not expect better from The Race.

Edited by 1player, 04 August 2022 - 09:48.


#308 cpbell

cpbell
  • Member

  • 6,964 posts
  • Joined: December 07

Posted 04 August 2022 - 09:55

What is that? Leclerc's points if nobody ever made a single mistake and Verstappen wasn't a factor? I would not expect better from The Race.

Yes, I was going to ask what assumptions were used to base that calculation on.



#309 catent

catent
  • Member

  • 563 posts
  • Joined: July 22

Posted 04 August 2022 - 09:57

What is that? Leclerc's points if nobody ever made a single mistake and Verstappen wasn't a factor? I would not expect better from The Race.

Obviously that’s not what the graph represents since the graph offers a point range. It’s not a perfect/dream scenario like you opine; it’s Leclerc’s realistic point total had some of the travesties that cost him this season not occurred.

I’m not sure if the graph is allowing the mechanicals to stand and compensating for strategy, vice versa, or some combination of both. I imagine points lost due to driver error will remain lost, as they should.

Edited by catent, 04 August 2022 - 09:57.


#310 GentlemanDriver091

GentlemanDriver091
  • Member

  • 1,639 posts
  • Joined: June 21

Posted 04 August 2022 - 10:04

Obviously that’s not what the graph represents since the graph offers a point range. It’s not a perfect/dream scenario like you opine; it’s Leclerc’s realistic point total had some of the travesties that cost him this season not occurred.

I’m not sure if the graph is allowing the mechanicals to stand and compensating for strategy, vice versa, or some combination of both. I imagine points lost due to driver error will remain lost, as they should.

It offers a point range for Leclerc, but not for Verstappen?

#311 Ragingjamaican

Ragingjamaican
  • Member

  • 986 posts
  • Joined: September 10

Posted 04 August 2022 - 10:15

Nope. If they were favoring Sainz, they would have given him a longer first stint on mediums in Hungary (his was like 15 laps to Leclerc’s 25) so that he didn’t have to run ~40 laps on then and then ~20 on softs. Sainz could have run the M-M-S strategy on the same laps as Hamilton and probably won the race for it, so no, I think the strategists just suck.

 

Yep. Also, if they were they wouldn't have told him to be the buffer to help Leclerc in Silverstone.

 

The better strategy call in Monaco came from Sainz himself not Ferrari, so again, I'm not sure how we can come to the conclusion on Ferrari favouring Sainz.



#312 Enzoluis

Enzoluis
  • Member

  • 2,135 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 04 August 2022 - 10:59

Nope. If they were favoring Sainz, they would have given him a longer first stint on mediums in Hungary (his was like 15 laps to Leclerc’s 25) so that he didn’t have to run ~40 laps on then and then ~20 on softs. Sainz could have run the M-M-S strategy on the same laps as Hamilton and probably won the race for it, so no, I think the strategists just suck.

 

No, they pitted Sainz because he have burned the tires trying to keep CL behind and after Russell pitted there was no good option. If they pit CL would undercut Sainz if they do not pit any Ferrari, Russel will go away because of the lack of pace of Sainz. So they pitted Sainz hopping he could manage better the second set of tires. 



#313 Enzoluis

Enzoluis
  • Member

  • 2,135 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 04 August 2022 - 11:05

Yep. Also, if they were they wouldn't have told him to be the buffer to help Leclerc in Silverstone.

 

The better strategy call in Monaco came from Sainz himself not Ferrari, so again, I'm not sure how we can come to the conclusion on Ferrari favouring Sainz.

 

They offer at Monaco the best strategy to Sainz come in first exit before Perez and undercut Leclerc (Remember Perez won, if Sianz would have taken that option would have won), he refused and changed to the second option stay out, change directly to softs we will put you ahead of CL making him do two pit stops and Ferrari will got the 1-2 they wanted Sainz- CL. But they got two black swans painted in blue.



#314 AlexS

AlexS
  • Member

  • 6,277 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 05 August 2022 - 09:03

Ferrari have been favouring Sainz but they are so incompetent they end up f.... him too.



#315 jcbc3

jcbc3
  • RC Forum Host

  • 12,845 posts
  • Joined: November 04

Posted 05 August 2022 - 09:20


They offer at Monaco the best strategy to Sainz come in first exit before Perez and undercut Leclerc (Remember Perez won, if Sianz would have taken that option would have won), he refused and changed to the second option stay out, change directly to softs we will put you ahead of CL making him do two pit stops and Ferrari will got the 1-2 they wanted Sainz- CL. But they got two black swans painted in blue.
Never heard this metaphor before, but it is just beautiful!


#316 Enzoluis

Enzoluis
  • Member

  • 2,135 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 05 August 2022 - 11:24

Ferrari have been favouring Sainz but they are so incompetent they end up f.... him too.

 

If you do not have a car 1 second faster than everybody else is difficult to make the slower driver win. 



#317 Victor

Victor
  • Member

  • 1,000 posts
  • Joined: March 04

Posted 05 August 2022 - 19:28

After a couple of days of thinking about what happened, I've had the following on my mind: 

 

The thing with Ferrari is that, let's be honest, they've always been a team characterised by regular chaos, with the occasional flashes of brilliance. 

 

People still talk about the "golden years" of Schumacher, Todt and co. But it's easy to forget that before Schumacher won the title in 2000, they'd been waiting 21 (!!!) years for another championship. There was even doubt as to whether Schumacher would win there as the years went by and he'd missed out on several chances - he could easily have become yet another driver to have gone there and failed. 

 

But I think looking back, we can safely say that time was the exception with Ferrari, rather than the norm. Yes, they might be the most successful team in the sport's history, but that 21 year drought was for many of the same reasons we see today - mismanagement of the team, mismanagement of drivers, terrible cars, and sure, bad luck too. 

 

They're now in a 14 year title drought, and it's incredible really to think the amount of talent they've burned through with little to show for it: Kimi (yes, he won the title, but being paid off early in favour of another driver can't be considered a successful stint there), Alonso, Vettel, and now Leclerc. 

 

I don't know what the problem is, or even what the solution could be, but I just thought it's interesting to look back - a lot of people do so with rose-tinted spectacles and believe that Ferrari were this incredibly well-oiled machine in the early 2000s. Sure, they were, but that is now a long time ago and it is clear now that that was a very special period in the team's history, and I highly doubt they'll be able to get back to that any time soon. The game's moved on, and I think Ferrari is just stuck in the past tbh.

Teams come and go. Ferrari is always there. As a Ferrari fan I do not mind waiting for a title, even if sometimes I must wait for what seems to be an eternity. I know it will end up happening. When was the last McLaren title? When was the last Williams tittle? Do they look closer to it than Ferrari?



#318 HeadFirst

HeadFirst
  • Member

  • 6,121 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 06 August 2022 - 02:55

Teams come and go. Ferrari is always there. As a Ferrari fan I do not mind waiting for a title, even if sometimes I must wait for what seems to be an eternity. I know it will end up happening. When was the last McLaren title? When was the last Williams tittle? Do they look closer to it than Ferrari?

 

Until Ferrari stop having their strategy decisions made by a Girl Scout troop in Hoboken NJ, they may well be.  :well:



#319 AlexS

AlexS
  • Member

  • 6,277 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 06 August 2022 - 05:58

For me the fact that Binotto appears to have no clue he insults the intelligence of everyone with his "excuses" makes me doubt his street smart capabilities, hence his capability to understand a race.



Advertisement

#320 DeKnyff

DeKnyff
  • Member

  • 5,254 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 06 August 2022 - 07:59

For me the fact that Binotto appears to have no clue he insults the intelligence of everyone with his "excuses" makes me doubt his street smart capabilities, hence his capability to understand a race.

 

Yet, under his tenure, Ferrari has reached its highest levels of competitiveness since the Todt / Brawn years.



#321 AlexS

AlexS
  • Member

  • 6,277 posts
  • Joined: September 03

Posted 06 August 2022 - 09:56

Yet, under his tenure, Ferrari has reached its highest levels of competitiveness since the Todt / Brawn years.

Alonso and Vettel period also had a year with not very different competitiveness, if he can achieve 2 years at the top it will be different. Right now Ferrari is more at risk of being surpassed by Mercedes than fighting RedBull.

Doing your homework well and in a structured way is not the same has understanding a constantly moving by the minute reality. If he does not understand that Leclerc could have been in contention to win Hungary then he must give the sport department to another person. be more of an Adrien Newey



#322 ToniF1

ToniF1
  • Member

  • 1,528 posts
  • Joined: April 14

Posted 17 August 2022 - 07:24

PSX-20220817-092029.jpg

#323 Werbank

Werbank
  • Member

  • 91 posts
  • Joined: August 22

Posted 21 August 2022 - 17:49

Watching Ferrari this year feels exactly the same as watching Williams in 1994-1995, when you knew that the Benetton's strategists will always do the right thing and the Williams's strategists will always do the wrong thing.



#324 Astandahl

Astandahl
  • Member

  • 5,568 posts
  • Joined: June 18

Posted 21 August 2022 - 18:18

Watching Ferrari this year feels exactly the same as watching Williams in 1994-1995, when you knew that the Benetton's strategists will always do the right thing and the Williams's strategists will always do the wrong thing.

Williams had mediocre drivers.

 

 

Ferrari is the worst managed team in all Motorsport right now.


Edited by Astandahl, 21 August 2022 - 18:19.


#325 JL14

JL14
  • Member

  • 588 posts
  • Joined: October 22

Posted 23 February 2024 - 14:31

Binotto won't be returning to F1 anymore it seems. At least not anytime soon as he has joined TEXA - an Italian company specializing in diagnostics and electric powertrain development - as managing director of its E-Powertrain division. He will spearhead the development and production of electric components for high-performance sports cars and other vehicles.

 

Binotto shifts gears with Texa E-powertrain project (f1i.com)