26 replies to this topic

[MarkusNeisius]

Good morning,

 

i´m searching for information about the Talbot Darracq race cars and especially the "conversions" from the 50ths by Gigi Platé.

He used the "old" Talbots to create and update the technicals to get a new competitive race car. but the idea failed. 

 

but- i have the remains of the late Gigi Plate (it was cannabolized to build a replica of one of the "original" Talbot Darracq) special here and want to bring it to its former glory...

 

 

my best

Markus

[Tim Murray]

Here are a couple of earlier threads which may be of interest:

Enrico Platè

1949 Biondetti’s Platè special

[MarkusNeisius]

Thank you Tim,

 

i knew these threads, but they have no specific information. if you can tell me how to upload a simple photo, i can post some...

 

...

my best

markus

[Tim Murray]

Markus, did you receive the PM I sent you yesterday?

[DazCooper]

Markus, did you receive the PM I sent you yesterday?

I suspect that, once you explained the steps necessary to post photographs on TNF, Markus, not surprisingly, lost the will to live…..

[Tim Murray]

I did offer to do it for him, Adam, but so far he hasn’t sent me anything to post.

[Tim Murray]

Posted on behalf of Markus:

[bradbury west]

Many thanks for posting, Tim, well worth the wait, and to Markus for making these photographs available. It is a remarkable “find” , especially in 2022. I look forward to progress reports. Fantastic condition and provenance.  A classic example of Jenks’  argument; tell them to show to you what they started with, then you can tell them what it is when it is  restored.

Roger Lund

[Catalina Park]

Oh wow!

[Doug Nye]

What a wonderful survivor.  A provenance chronology would make for fascinating reading - who, what, when?

 

DCN

[Jahn1234567890]

Given that TNF is not a 'private' forum I'm always somewhat hesitant to share images of my archive as most of them are copyrighted and I have to upload them to postimage.org first in order for them to be shown here.

But I don't want to open that can of worms... Since I'm sure the following images are of interest I'll post them anyways. As they are copyrighted I have uploaded them in low resolution.

 

Here are some images of Biondetti in the Platé Talbot at Bremgarten in 1949. Images courtesy of Burgerbibliothek Bern. Original photographer Eugen Thierstein.

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Kevin

Edited by Jahn1234567890, 22 September 2022 - 13:13.

[bradbury west]

Kevin, many thanks for posting these photographs.

Roger Lund

[Tim Murray]

Seconded.

[GaryJohnson]

What a wonderful survivor.  A provenance chronology would make for fascinating reading - who, what, when?

 

DCN

The very comprehensive series of articles by Simon Moore, which appeared in ‘The Automobile’ in March April and May 2012, give a very thorough overview of the history of these cars, including, in the May 2012 article, plenty of detail on the history of the Plate car, for anyone who is unaware of its history.

[MarkusNeisius]

yes, for sure. As far as the history is very clear and continously, there´re only a few details known.

just wondering, if there´re no technical datas availible from talbot factory? even the plate special competed in some races and nothing survived?

we´re coming next to an end with the reconstruction of the bodywork. it is more a meticulous archaeological effort then a restoration. but very happy to preserve as much as possible. - far away from glossy and shiny surfaces. 

 

so, any lead to the plate family is very welcome!

[jbbugatti]

Given that TNF is not a 'private' forum I'm always somewhat hesitant to share images of my archive as most of them are copyrighted and I have to upload them to postimage.org first in order for them to be shown here.

But I don't want to open that can of worms... Since I'm sure the following images are of interest I'll post them anyways. As they are copyrighted I have uploaded them in low resolution.

 

Here are some images of Biondetti in the Platé Talbot at Bremgarten in 1949. Images courtesy of Burgerbibliothek Bern. Original photographer Eugen Thierstein.

 

 

 

 

 

Best regards,

 

Kevin

A truly wonderful set of photos, Kevin

Many thanks for sharing them.

[jbbugatti]

I have found one further photo of this car post war.

 

Biondetti at Monza in June 1949

image hoster

Edited by jbbugatti, 08 November 2022 - 19:19.

[Jahn1234567890]

This is Biondetti at the Gran Premio dell' Autodromo di Monza. An F2 race held at the 26th of June 1949. Since it was an F2 race the car must have run without its supercharger.

[fivestar]

This is Biondetti at the Gran Premio dell' Autodromo di Monza. An F2 race held at the 26th of June 1949. Since it was an F2 race the car must have run without its supercharger.

Interesting, if you follow this link it states Biondetti drove a Maserati A6GCS and retired on Lap 11.

 

https://www.the-fast...la2/F249_16.htm

[jbbugatti]

Interesting, if you follow this link it states Biondetti drove a Maserati A6GCS and retired on Lap 11.

 

https://www.the-fast...la2/F249_16.htm

The F1 Register Black Book (Vol 4) has Biondetti, correctly, in a Plate Special.

 

FWIW I have not found the F2 Register site reliable.

[Jahn1234567890]

Interesting, if you follow this link it states Biondetti drove a Maserati A6GCS and retired on Lap 11.

 

https://www.the-fast...la2/F249_16.htm

 

I don't tend to use these websites so I have no idea how reliable they are, but the attached image below of the start of the race clearly shows Biondetti in the Platé Talbot rather than a Maserati A6GCS.

 

[MarkusNeisius]

Thank you all for your information.
Project is going forward. But still in need of photos and details from the period with 4c / double supercharged gigi plate special engine!
we now have completed bodywork. a huge work as any single hole needed work to bring it from a shakled slot to a circled hole. :-)
the tank was also a challenge, because material brittle over the years and partly unsalvageable.
we need to work on the drivetrain and axles now. ...

What a wonderful survivor. A provenance chronology would make for fascinating reading - who, what, when?

DCN

The very comprehensive series of articles by Simon Moore, which appeared in ‘The Automobile’ in March April and May 2012, give a very thorough overview of the history of these cars, including, in the May 2012 article, plenty of detail on the history of the Plate car, for anyone who is unaware of its history.

Hi.
yes. Simons article are more then helpful. But the deeper you digg into the gigi-plate personally/scuderia/cars, the more question popping up.

there is an unknown situation of numbers of cars, engines, ...
by preserving the chassis many old leads were found. we can recreate a part of chassis/body history. but... ...

so far. to be continued
markus

[MarkusNeisius]

and here comes an enigma. 

 

around 1950 they changed the suspension from leaf springs to torque shafts. you see the front area left hand side. 

what you see in driving direction both side the gliding slots. i can´t imagine how they realized that a solid axle, mounted on the linkage arm of the torque shafts can operate. if one side moves up, it will go on block unless there is clearance. but if there is clearance it will shakle around. has anyone seen such a kind of suspension?

 

[PJGD]

 It certainly looks like an unnecessarily complex suspension system with too many opportunities for wear and slackness.  I assume that you do not have the front axle to see how it was mounted and guided.  It is possible that there was intentional side-to-side clearance, enough to allow the axle to articulate, in which case there would likely be either a Watt linkage or a Panhard rod attached to the axle and the chassis somewhere to maintain its alignment.

 

Incidentally, the torsion bars (are they solid or tubular?) look a bit beat up [dented].  Usually, torsion bars need to be polished or finished to a high standard so that there are no scratches, nicks, or stress risers.

[MarkusNeisius]

 

that is the used "original" axle, now again on another car. 

 

 

that is the axles geometry. 

[MarkusNeisius]

It certainly looks like an unnecessarily complex suspension system with too many opportunities for wear and slackness. I assume that you do not have the front axle to see how it was mounted and guided. It is possible that there was intentional side-to-side clearance, enough to allow the axle to articulate, in which case there would likely be either a Watt linkage or a Panhard rod attached to the axle and the chassis somewhere to maintain its alignment.

Incidentally, the torsion bars (are they solid or tubular?) look a bit beat up [dented]. Usually, torsion bars need to be polished or finished to a high standard so that there are no scratches, nicks, or stress risers.

i think you´re right. it seems to be a very complex system. the clearance need to be up to 3mm each side by moving +/- 40mm. think for a race car it´s ok.
i add a photo later of the "original" axle with it´s mounting plate. as fas as we know, it was used without significant changings on my project.
watt could be an option for the linear movings, but there is only one "stronger" mounting point on the chassis. panhard- i think not.

[bradbury west]

 Check out the new Automobilia Ladenburg on line auction site.  Lot 960 looks like a single page article in Italian on your car with a couple of images.
Roger Lund

Edited by bradbury west, 31 January 2023 - 01:19.