113 replies to this topic

[Disgrace]

Hmm... yeah, that barrier needs a redesign.

[ANF]

https://www.dailymot...m/video/x8p5y50 (Amateur video)
 
You can see the car almost clearing the barrier at Denger as well.

I couldn't find any footage of the survival cell in the other videos. So the large piece of debris that can be seen flying over the fence (after hitting it) in this video, is that... is that the survival cell, and Sasahara, landing behind the barrier between Dunlop Corner and Degner?!

Edited by ANF, 28 October 2023 - 17:22.

[ANF]

It would be interesting to see how Sasahara's car got from the barrier to the fence. The Japanese seem to be in favour of these big polystyrene blocks, but they sometimes have a tendency to throw cars up in the air, don't they?

[ANF]

I couldn't find any footage of the survival cell in the other videos. So the large piece of debris that can be seen flying over the fence (after hitting it) in this video, is that... is that the survival cell, and Sasahara, landing behind the barrier between Dunlop Corner and Degner?!

Yes, it is. I found this (braindead) video with a picture of Sasahara's survival cell behind the barrier. That's the straight between Dunlop Corner and Degner we're seeing. (Let me know if there's a better video so I can replace this one.)

Edit: Video replaced by the picture:

https://www.as-web.j...ab653cd289e0e15

More pictures:
https://www.as-web.j...4a653cd28bec2f0
https://www.as-web.j...83653cd28e24f3a
https://www.as-web.j...77653cd290a97f5
https://www.as-web.j...ad653cd287b0ca1
https://www.as-web.j..._e653cd285ae351

Edited by ANF, 28 October 2023 - 18:56.

[huggybear]

I couldn't find any footage of the survival cell in the other videos. So the large piece of debris that can be seen flying over the fence (after hitting it) in this video, is that... is that the survival cell, and Sasahara, landing behind the barrier between Dunlop Corner and Degner?!

Yes. There are photos of the accident from back down the straight, and you can see that the tub cleared the catch fence. It landed just before the barrier at Degner, and then hit the barrier itself.

[uzsjgb]

It would be interesting to see how Sasahara's car got from the barrier to the fence. The Japanese seem to be in favour of these big polystyrene blocks, but they sometimes have a tendency to throw cars up in the air, don't they?

 

You can see the car already getting some lift from the first curb. My guess would be that either a) the air underneath it caused it to lift even higher or b) it came down into the gravel trap and started rotating. In either case the result would have been a rotating car hitting the barriers higher up. It is typical for these sorts of crashes for the rotation to rip the car apart and to fling parts into and over the crash fence. 

 

I'm so tired of saying that it is not a good idea to put an obstacle into the path of an out of control car. Why build a catch fence if you build a ramp in front of it? 

 

Thanks for posting the braindead video, the survival cell looks very intact. In these types of accidents the rotation is often more dangerous than hitting anything.

[ANF]

I found this picture which shows the blue, striped barrier blocks. They're apparently not solid blocks of foam like I thought.

 

Edit: It seems to be from a series of ten pictures, all posted here: https://twitter.com/...200716429553669

In the first picture https://twitter.com/...9553669/photo/1 Sasahara's car has already hit the (soft?) blue barrier. A wheel or tyre has been knocked off the car. Bits of blue barrier is flying in the air. But the front of the car still remains in front of the barrier. The next impact must have happened very high up on the barrier, and the rear of the car had already cleared the barrier by some margin.

Edited by ANF, 28 October 2023 - 19:46.

[uzsjgb]

To me it looks like the car hit the barriers sideways, but only with the front half, while the back half cleared the barriers (picture 1). The result of that would be the car breaking in half and a big rotation, flinging the front half high into the catch fence and thus over it (picture 3).

 

The barriers (tire and armco), as well as the catch fence all seem to be relatively intact. They did their job and survived two cars crashing into them at high speeds. What the barriers were not designed to do is stop a car hitting them after being launched by a ramp. I would say remove the ramps in fast corners, but at the moment everyone is calling for more ramps to be built because of track limits, so the catch fences would have to be either made taller or angeled differently (like at US ovals). Either solution would be costly.

[midgrid]

It just goes to show that a Driven-style crash can actually happen in real life!

[ANF]

To me it looks like the car hit the barriers sideways, but only with the front half, while the back half cleared the barriers (picture 1). The result of that would be the car breaking in half and a big rotation, flinging the front half high into the catch fence and thus over it (picture 3).
 
The barriers (tire and armco), as well as the catch fence all seem to be relatively intact. They did their job and survived two cars crashing into them at high speeds. What the barriers were not designed to do is stop a car hitting them after being launched by a ramp. I would say remove the ramps in fast corners, but at the moment everyone is calling for more ramps to be built because of track limits, so the catch fences would have to be either made taller or angeled differently (like at US ovals). Either solution would be costly.

I think it's much better to let a car hit a tyre/TecPro/SAFER barrier than a fence. Fences often get torn down when a car hits them and must be replaced (Franchitti at Houston). Fences must be held up by posts, and you don't want to hit a fence post at high speed (Wickens at Pocono). And fences won't necessarily stop a car (Sasahara at Suzuka, Flörsch at Macau, that Porsche cup car at Portimão).

A tyre/TecPro/SAFER barrier will absorb energy and lessen the impact on the driver's body and brain. And the barrier is supposed to stop the car, the car isn't supposed to hit the debris fence. If the barrier acts as a ramp there may be something wrong with the barrier (or the run-off area). For example, at Portimão, maybe the tyre barrier should have been a little higher so it would have stopped the inverted car instead of letting it slide on top of it.

[ANF]

The final race of the season was held earlier today. Highlights:

[Risil]

It just goes to show that a Driven-style crash can actually happen in real life!

I always wondered what would've happened if Alonso had got that pass on Schumacher wrong in 2005. Well, wonder no more!

 

And congratulations to Ritomo Miyata and Toyota!

[AlexPrime]

Good job, Miyata 

[expert]

Congrats to Miyata, a very consistent season.

 

Lawson did well too.  Got unlucky in the first quali and race this weekend with events outside his control - but it was really the brain fart in Motegi that cost him the title.