Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Race coverage and commentary in comparative relief - 1981 v 2022


  • Please log in to reply
19 replies to this topic

#1 Zmeej

Zmeej
  • Member

  • 60,925 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 31 August 2022 - 01:30

The purpose of this thread is not to highlight the Goldenness of Yore (although there is certainly some in evidence), but rather David Croft’s monsoon flood of misplaced theatrical hysteria, vapid jocularity, and time-filling recitations of statistics as important things happen on track.

 

My fave GP has been Spa for quite some time, but during this year’s this past Sunday, finally got so fed up that I couldn’t watch more than 10 laps in fits and starts.
 
Compare the torrent of excrementality DaCr unleashes to this:
 
Thanks to “Big Zeddie” for having loaded it onto YouTube 10 days ago. :up:
 
As an added attraction, there is, as “Chris & Christine” sez in the comments section:
 

1:02:09 James Hunt giving his idea for a Watership Down sequel.
 
:lol:

 

As it happens, Hunt had been utterly silent for about half an hour prior to that, no doubt sleeping off a hangover under the desk. :cool:

 

Anyway, be it resolved that there should be a wave of outrage that washes the execrable Cravid Doft out of the booth he blights.
 
Discuss. :wave:


Advertisement

#2 William Hunt

William Hunt
  • Member

  • 10,244 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 31 August 2022 - 05:06

'You don't like too happy Alan' (to Alan Jones). Jones: "No but I'm gonna have a couple of Foster's" (Australian beer brand)



#3 Zmeej

Zmeej
  • Member

  • 60,925 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 31 August 2022 - 13:49

Very nice example of the Aussie’s geniality. :up: :)

 

He also took the fact that Villeneuve’s spin took him out quite well. :cool:


Edited by Zmeej, 31 August 2022 - 13:49.


#4 Zmeej

Zmeej
  • Member

  • 60,925 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 01 September 2022 - 07:53

Hmmm.

 

Guess there will be no “wave of outrage.” :p



#5 pacificquay

pacificquay
  • Member

  • 5,370 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 01 September 2022 - 12:46

Murray was an institution but many of his commentaries of that era were in the style of radio commentaries, rather than enhancing the pictures.

 

Interesting also the “trousers on fire” thing as default only really happened much later.

 

The “and look at that” moment with Mansell in Adelaide 86 was noticeable because of it being ramped up rather than the default style of the time.

 

Also I wonder if some of the criticism of today is a snobbish thing - Hunt was a classic public school boy and Murray was quite posh too, whereas Croft and Brundle are much more of the people.


Edited by pacificquay, 01 September 2022 - 16:09.


#6 Leibowitz

Leibowitz
  • Member

  • 650 posts
  • Joined: August 20

Posted 01 September 2022 - 12:49

Not a single ‘old switcheroo’ in sight.

#7 HerbieMcQueen

HerbieMcQueen
  • Member

  • 1,391 posts
  • Joined: November 17

Posted 01 September 2022 - 12:57

Murray was an institution but many of his commentaries of that era were in the style of radio commentaries, rather than enhancing the pictures.

 

Interesting also the “trousers on fire” thing as default only really happened much later.

 

The “and look at that” moment with Mansell in Adelaide 86 was noticeable because of it being ramped up rather than the default style of the time.

 

Also I wonder if some of the criticism of today is a snobbish thing - Hunt was a classic public school boy and Murray was quite posh too, whereas Croft and Brundle ar E much more of the people.

I consider Marty B a fine commentator, and a great addition to Formula One on television. It's not a class thing, at least not for me. It's a "standards in broadcasting and public life" thing, which across the board has generally suffered a sharp downturn. There's a common occurrence of infantilisation that precedes it, sadly, which explains the existence of David Croft in television broadcasting. Listening to Murray Walker (despite his many mistakes) and James Hunt still carries an air of gravitas that ensures in my mind that I'm listening to a grown adult.



#8 garoidb

garoidb
  • Member

  • 8,012 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 01 September 2022 - 13:07

Murray was an institution but many of his commentaries of that era were in the style of radio commentaries, rather than enhancing the pictures.

 

Interesting also the “trousers on fire” thing as default only really happened much later.

 

The “and look at that” moment with Mansell in Adelaide 86 was noticeable because of it being ramped up rather than the default style of the time.

 

Also I wonder if some of the criticism of today is a snobbish thing - Hunt was a classic public school boy and Murray was quite posh too, whereas Croft and Brundle ar E much more of the people.

 

Yes, and it was possibly the most sensational competitive happening of the decade so the excitement was warranted.



#9 PlatenGlass

PlatenGlass
  • Member

  • 3,816 posts
  • Joined: June 14

Posted 01 September 2022 - 13:21

As it happens, Hunt had been utterly silent for about half an hour prior to that, no doubt sleeping off a hangover under the desk. :cool:

I don't think this was massively abnormal for Hunt. James Hunt was good for the odd quote and for finding YouTube clips but I'm not sure he was a great commentator race in, race out.

#10 MKSixer

MKSixer
  • Member

  • 2,846 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 01 September 2022 - 13:22

I consider Marty B a fine commentator, and a great addition to Formula One on television. It's not a class thing, at least not for me. It's a "standards in broadcasting and public life" thing, which across the board has generally suffered a sharp downturn. There's a common occurrence of infantilisation that precedes it, sadly, which explains the existence of David Croft in television broadcasting. Listening to Murray Walker (despite his many mistakes) and James Hunt still carries an air of gravitas that ensures in my mind that I'm listening to a grown adult.

This.

 

It is exactly the case of the dumbing down of the sport to appeal to the greater fan-base.  For us in the States, Steve Matchett, Bob Varsha, and David Hobbs did a great job and the addition of Leigh Diffey only improved the commentary.  Having a color guy, a professional driver and a professional mechanic were fantastic to the over-wrought drama craziness that we have now.



#11 Primo

Primo
  • Member

  • 1,026 posts
  • Joined: March 22

Posted 01 September 2022 - 14:33

It must be remembered that Murray was a commentator during an era when on-screen info was very sparse so there was a lot more information that he was responsible for bringing to our attention. Still, I think he talked too much. I think they all talk too much. Actually, I think the TV production team should look into bringing more of the relevant sounds from the cars, the tires, from the speed, into our remote viewing areas. If they did, the commentators would not feel they have to fill every second with words. Would it be so hard to have a hypercardioid mounted together with the camera? Yes, and the cameras... there's a lot they could do to bring sense of speed to our sofa's. If they did, the commentators would look like nitwits talking during a Stravinsky ballet if they'd keep the current stream of words per minute.    



#12 Spillage

Spillage
  • Member

  • 9,459 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 01 September 2022 - 16:07



The “and look at that” moment with Mansell in Adelaide 86 was noticeable because of it being ramped up rather than the default style of the time.

That evening my dad fell asleep in front of the telly after a Saturday night in the pub and was woken up by Murray shouting 'AND LOOK AT THAT' when Nigel's tyre exploded. Murray could get anyone into F1!

#13 Zmeej

Zmeej
  • Member

  • 60,925 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 01 September 2022 - 22:04

Hmmm.

 

Of course, youse are commenting on the better of the commentators, out of affection and/or mixed feelings about the Late Great Murray,

but …



#14 BoDarvelle

BoDarvelle
  • Member

  • 863 posts
  • Joined: March 22

Posted 01 September 2022 - 22:47

This.

 

It is exactly the case of the dumbing down of the sport to appeal to the greater fan-base.  For us in the States, Steve Matchett, Bob Varsha, and David Hobbs did a great job and the addition of Leigh Diffey only improved the commentary.  Having a color guy, a professional driver and a professional mechanic were fantastic to the over-wrought drama craziness that we have now.

 

This.

 

I'm hoping ESPN has it's own broadcast team going forward with the new contract and that they can find guys of a similar level. I can't stand Crofty and the Brit bias of the Sky team.



#15 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 3,789 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 02 September 2022 - 02:02

Back then... James Hunt was awesome and Murray Walker.

There's no one like Murray today.

Edited by George Costanza, 02 September 2022 - 02:04.


#16 William Hunt

William Hunt
  • Member

  • 10,244 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 02 September 2022 - 02:14

Martin Brundle is the best F1 commentator of all time imho. Murray Walker was great fun to listen to but... he made a lot of mistakes, like mixing up driver names or missing important information. Hunt was fun too but he was very biased, in particular to Riccardo Patrese. 

 

But my favourite commentator was maybe Jackie Stewart when he was commenting the Indy 500 races in the '70s & '80s.


Edited by William Hunt, 02 September 2022 - 02:15.


#17 potmotr

potmotr
  • Member

  • 12,001 posts
  • Joined: January 08

Posted 02 September 2022 - 13:07

Martin Brundle is the best F1 commentator of all time imho. Murray Walker was great fun to listen to but... he made a lot of mistakes, like mixing up driver names or missing important information. Hunt was fun too but he was very biased, in particular to Riccardo Patrese. 

 

 

I think what we have to consider is that for the majority of his career Murray Walker had *very* little information to work off, other than the often terrible-quality television images from local TV (Hunt and Walker didn't attend a lot of the races they commented on) and perhaps a lap scorer if they were lucky. No digital feeds saying who had stopped etc. So I think he actually did an amazing job making a race sound so exciting given the limitations.

 

I loved how straight-talking James Hunt was! He'd 100 percent not get away with some of his comments today, given the snowflakey world we live in, his commentary would instantly be clipped up and posted on social media and he'd be cancelled.

 

Some of his commentary was hilariously savage. Like this clip from the 1989 Canadian Grand Prix where Rene Arnoux and Andrea de Cesaris were racing each other, or as Hunt said "the blocker versus the blinker" (de Cesaris had a nervous tick which made him blink)

 

https://youtu.be/eI-rZPyX8b0?t=1360


Edited by potmotr, 02 September 2022 - 13:28.


#18 George Costanza

George Costanza
  • Member

  • 3,789 posts
  • Joined: July 08

Posted 02 September 2022 - 20:28

I think what we have to consider is that for the majority of his career Murray Walker had *very* little information to work off, other than the often terrible-quality television images from local TV (Hunt and Walker didn't attend a lot of the races they commented on) and perhaps a lap scorer if they were lucky. No digital feeds saying who had stopped etc. So I think he actually did an amazing job making a race sound so exciting given the limitations.

I loved how straight-talking James Hunt was! He'd 100 percent not get away with some of his comments today, given the snowflakey world we live in, his commentary would instantly be clipped up and posted on social media and he'd be cancelled.

Some of his commentary was hilariously savage. Like this clip from the 1989 Canadian Grand Prix where Rene Arnoux and Andrea de Cesaris were racing each other, or as Hunt said "the blocker versus the blinker" (de Cesaris had a nervous tick which made him blink)

https://youtu.be/eI-rZPyX8b0?t=1360


James Hunt wouldn't care. He would say it still. Even today he wouldn't care about being canceled.

Edited by George Costanza, 02 September 2022 - 20:28.


#19 Zmeej

Zmeej
  • Member

  • 60,925 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 06 September 2022 - 19:47

This is an excellent extensive highlights video* of the 1996 Japanese GP

which underscores my personal estimation that the best team covering F1 races consisted of:

 

Murray Walker - coverage

Jonathan Palmer - colour

Tony Jardine - pits

 

This is an "upon reflection" assessment, given that for the longest time I preferred James Hunt for the many reasons potmotr outlines.

 

 

* Re the "Video unavailable" screed:

 

1/ A hearty "Go fuc8k yourselves, Formula One Management" :evil:

2/ Do click on the "Watch on YouTube" link, :up:

which makes the "blocking" comprehensively moronic. :rolleyes:


Edited by Zmeej, 06 September 2022 - 19:53.


Advertisement

#20 F1 Mike

F1 Mike
  • Member

  • 1,697 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 06 September 2022 - 23:36

I never liked Jonathan Palmer, found him incredibly dull to listen to. Funnily enough I enjoy listening to his lad Jolyon on 5 live and F1TV, really excellent commentator!

If Croft could just tone down the clowning around and cringey phrases like "switcheroo" I think he'd be fine. He works very well with Brundle.

But the quality of commentary we have today across the various channels and platforms is still very good overall.

Ben Edwards is like the modern Murray Walker

Edited by F1 Mike, 06 September 2022 - 23:37.