Jump to content


Photo
* * - - - 12 votes

The Tsunoda eventual retirement in the Dutch GP 2022


  • Please log in to reply
760 replies to this topic

Poll: Tsunoda stopping on track (337 member(s) have cast votes)

Do you think this is a conspiracy to help Red Bull?

  1. Yes (75 votes [22.26%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 22.26%

  2. No (228 votes [67.66%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 67.66%

  3. I don’t know (33 votes [9.79%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 9.79%

  4. Other (1 votes [0.30%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 0.30%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#1 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 21,724 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:21

What was up with all that then.

 

 

 

So as I understand it:
 
- his diff is broken
- he thinks it's a wheel not fitted
- stops and loosens belt
- team tell him to get going again
- he can't race with loose belts
- pits to tighten belts
- comes out but diff is broken
- has to stop again and does so at a reasonable point
 
Question, if any, how they didn't see broken diff on data.

 

 
 


Advertisement

#2 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 21,724 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:22

Personally, I’m going with cock up rather than conspiracy.



#3 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 8,370 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:23

We already had a useless thread about it.

#4 FLB

FLB
  • Member

  • 24,658 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:25

I don't believe in a conspiracy, but the optics are weird. It doesn't help it involves sister teams.

 

And looking on social media, the FIA needs to adress this for its own credibility.



#5 CSF

CSF
  • Member

  • 2,442 posts
  • Joined: January 11

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:25

The new Abu Dhabi thread!



#6 Jones Foyer

Jones Foyer
  • Member

  • 861 posts
  • Joined: November 06

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:36

If it were a conspiracy, they would have had to tell Tsunoda to say “wheel not fitted” and pull over to create a safety car. That direction would have to have been given to him over the radio. Everyone would have heard it. No conspiracy. Move on. Tsunoda pulled off on his own.

#7 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 58,314 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:38

There is no other logical conclusion why a team would send out a car, twice, in an unfit state to race, and then tell him to park it on track rather than pootle back to the pits where it could be safely retired.

 

And it happens for the very first time this season at Verstappen's home race when he's going to lose it.



#8 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 8,370 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:40



And it happens for the very first time this season at Verstappen's home race when he's going to lose it.


BS as usual. Without any SC/VSC/retirement there was zero chance for Max to lose the race

#9 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 58,314 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:41

BS as usual. Without any SC/VSC/retirement there was zero chance for Max to lose the race

It's possible he would have won without it; it's certain that he would win with it.

 

Facts, dear boy, facts.



#10 Diablobb81

Diablobb81
  • Member

  • 8,370 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:44

It's possible he would have won without it; it's certain that he would win with it.

Facts, dear boy, facts.


VSC actually gave Merc a chance to attack Max with mediums.

#11 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 58,314 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:45

VSC ensured Verstappen would not lose the lead in stopping.  Merc had a 1 stop strategy that might have been faster than a 2 stop - but only if there were no show cars at the right time for a 2nd stop.  Hey presto, Tsunoda didn't park it properly the first time, so they got him to do it better the second time.



#12 Nova

Nova
  • Member

  • 15,105 posts
  • Joined: September 02

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:49

It's not like Max or Redbull needed Tsunodas help.



#13 Wingcommander

Wingcommander
  • Member

  • 1,464 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:50

They're italian! General confusion should have been one of the options  :lol:



#14 Laster

Laster
  • Member

  • 3,029 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:51

Seemed Tsunoda parked it perfectly fine the first time if they wanted to cause a safety car or VSC, but they urged him back to the pits regardless believing nothing was wrong despite him saying otherwise. Stupid by Alpha Tauri but it’s not a conspiracy, there was no need to call him back to the pits if they wanted to cause that VSC.

I get people see that there are two teams that are run under one umbrella, but there’s only 20 cars 4 of them are owned by Red Bull. When one of those cars hit a problem it will inevitably affect the race - sometimes negatively for Red Bull some times positively. It happens.

And I really can’t state this enough Red Bull and Max do not need any help winning they are miles out in front. Why on earth would they feel so desperate to win that they would create this conspiracy?

It’s nonsense, absolute nonsense.

Edited by Laster, 04 September 2022 - 14:52.


#15 1player

1player
  • Member

  • 236 posts
  • Joined: March 21

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:52

It was really fishy. Voted "Yes" just to have a laugh, but first he complained about the wheel not fitted correctly, which instead was fine, then he pitted and they fiddled with his seatbelt?! And then he complained about "something is wrong" and just stopped.

 

What the hell was that?


Edited by 1player, 04 September 2022 - 14:52.


#16 andyscoot

andyscoot
  • Member

  • 1,156 posts
  • Joined: May 18

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:52

Of course it wasn't. Any other team and you wouldn't think about it.

Sister teams create problems though

#17 IrvTheSwerve

IrvTheSwerve
  • Member

  • 2,881 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:54

I don't know.

 

But what I will say is that I've always said that having 'junior teams' gives leading teams more ability to strategise. You could argue that it was 'ever thus' down the years, however strategy is so important now.

 

I hate the whole 'junior team' thing.


Edited by IrvTheSwerve, 04 September 2022 - 21:49.


#18 Niceone

Niceone
  • Member

  • 1,338 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:56

It was really fishy. Voted "Yes" just to have a laugh, but first he complained about the wheel not fitted correctly, which instead was fine, then he pitted and they fiddled with his seatbelt?! And then he complained about "something is wrong" and just stopped.

 

What the hell was that?

He most likely unfastened his seat belt when the car stopped first time. He drove back very slowly..maybe the issue wasn't obvious when driving that slowly? 



#19 F1 Mike

F1 Mike
  • Member

  • 1,697 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:56

I don't doubt there was a race ending problem with the car, but the AT was trundling round the track safely.

What I find really suspicious is the call for him to stop by the side of the track.

That feels like an opportunistic and quick thinking decision to me to the benefit of the parent company

Advertisement

#20 Casey

Casey
  • Member

  • 2,476 posts
  • Joined: June 16

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:57

Yeh , RB really needs all the help they can to secure the title this year !



#21 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 27,872 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:57

There was likely an issue the whole time, Tsunoda just misdiagnosed it as an ill-fitting tyre.



#22 1player

1player
  • Member

  • 236 posts
  • Joined: March 21

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:57

I don't know.

 

But what I will say is that I've always said that having 'junior teams' gives leading teams more ability to strategise. You could argue that it was 'every thus' down the years, however strategy is so important now.

 

I hate the whole 'junior team' thing.

Having a junior team just massively penalises whoever doesn't have one. I've always been of the opinion they shouldn't be allowed at all.



#23 OvDrone

OvDrone
  • Member

  • 14,968 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:58

It's both - the complete incompetency lead to an opportunity to exploit and get the race even more securely into the grasp of the main team. RBR don't wait and always pull that trigger. Case in point last weekends penalty for both AT cars.

At this point the team is just there as gimmick to use at will. 



#24 GunnarN7

GunnarN7
  • Member

  • 302 posts
  • Joined: December 15

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:59

The worst thing is that Max would've probably still won in the end without all this bs, but we would've gotten a much more entertaining finish and Hamilton in P2 which he deserved.

 

It was definitely not intentional though.



#25 Claudius

Claudius
  • Member

  • 4,728 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 04 September 2022 - 14:59

I often don’t believe in conspiracies but this one was beyond suspicious. I hope FIA will investigate it.

#26 Niceone

Niceone
  • Member

  • 1,338 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:02

I often don’t believe in conspiracies but this one was beyond suspicious. I hope FIA will investigate it.

What was suspicious about it? If they wanted to help Max then they wouldn't have ordered Tsunoda to continue after initial stop



#27 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 58,314 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:02

Yeh , RB really needs all the help they can to secure the title this year !

They needed help to have the Dutchman win the Dutch Grand Prix.



#28 OvDrone

OvDrone
  • Member

  • 14,968 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:02

What I find really suspicious is the call for him to stop by the side of the track.

That feels like an opportunistic and quick thinking decision to me to the benefit of the parent company

 

Exactly! 

I wouldn't call it a conspiracy - more like another example of vicious exploitation of every inch afforded. We see it happen so many times in many series in the sport.

It does suck that only RBR seem willing to do it and take the likability hit for the sake of crushing the opposition.

RBR know that the stewards and F1 higherups are lax af and use it to their advantage. Also remember where this race was and who this benefitted. 

This is plain to see. 


Edited by OvDrone, 04 September 2022 - 15:04.


#29 Topsu

Topsu
  • Member

  • 2,813 posts
  • Joined: March 12

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:03

If you genuinely think this was a conspiracy, you need to see a therapist.



#30 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 58,314 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:03

What was suspicious about it? If they wanted to help Max then they wouldn't have ordered Tsunoda to continue after initial stop

They had no choice.  He hadn't wobbled the wheel off and the stewards were not calling for the safety car.  So he had to do it again.



#31 Showty

Showty
  • Member

  • 2,086 posts
  • Joined: November 07

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:07

I find the call to stop the car, right after pitting for the softs, very weird.

They had all the time in the world to properly check the car, specially when they spent so much time working on Tsunoda's seatbelt.

And just like that, 15 seconds after he leaves the pits, remotely, they realize something is wrong.

#32 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 16,946 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:07

Why could he drive 1.5 laps fine but not 2?



#33 NoForumForOldPole

NoForumForOldPole
  • Member

  • 1,206 posts
  • Joined: July 18

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:08

Was Max's brother-in-law in the Tsunoda's pit today?

#34 Claudius

Claudius
  • Member

  • 4,728 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:08

If you genuinely think this was a conspiracy, you need to see a therapist.


Ah yes, the armchair psychologist trying to infer something…

#35 HP

HP
  • Member

  • 19,500 posts
  • Joined: October 99

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:12

I'd think sensors and electronics mucked up terribly, these things happen when people rely too much on technology only.

Like Tsunoda: My car is bricked.

Engineer: Data show everything is alright...

 

It's possible he would have won without it; it's certain that he would win with it.

 

Facts, dear boy, facts.

Have you seen the alternate race ending to call it a fact?



#36 masa90

masa90
  • Member

  • 1,873 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:13

Personally, I’m going with cock up rather than conspiracy.

 

Agree with this. No team is stupid enough to conspire on stuff like this.



#37 Ivanhoe

Ivanhoe
  • RC Forum Host

  • 16,394 posts
  • Joined: November 15

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:14

We should have started a thread every time an AT messed up Verstappens quali or race.



#38 Scaboo22

Scaboo22
  • Member

  • 2,366 posts
  • Joined: May 21

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:15

There’s no conspiracy, Max was already winning, he didn’t need a SC/VSC. It was just AT not understanding what was happening with the car exactly and trying to continue.

If there’s no Tsunoda incident Max pits for hards and exists some 2 seconds behind Hamilton on a much older tire. So really there should be no conspiracies but of course, this is a forum after all :-)

Edit: let’s not forget how many times AT screwed over RedBull. To claim this was intentional would be ridiculous.

Edited by Scaboo22, 04 September 2022 - 15:16.


#39 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 43,657 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:15

not a conspiracy, it didnt really helped them, but this is insane incompetence and needs a investigation



Advertisement

#40 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 21,724 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:15

If it turn out that Tsunoda undid his belts thinking his race was over because of a loose wheel, then drove back to the pits anyway, that would be really, really bad, by the way. This was my guess during the race day thread, but I hope it’s not correct.



#41 NewYorkF1

NewYorkF1
  • Member

  • 212 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:16

We should have started a thread every time an AT messed up Verstappens quali or race.

sshhh that doesn’t fit the narrative. 

I hope that the people who vote conspiracy are just having a laugh. I am worried that a couple actually believe it.



#42 ensign14

ensign14
  • Member

  • 58,314 posts
  • Joined: December 01

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:16

If you genuinely think this was a conspiracy, you need to see a therapist.

That's what people said about Singapore 2008.  Guess what?



#43 Clrnc

Clrnc
  • Member

  • 5,255 posts
  • Joined: March 15

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:18

If you genuinely think this was a conspiracy, you need to see a therapist.

Exactly. Especially when AT sent him out again to try and continue the race. And they were in a points position, something you could hardly say about AT this season so they were trying to their best to score.

 

It's just pure stupidity to claim a conspiracy but then I have seen that its from the same few people as usual. 



#44 FullOppositeLock

FullOppositeLock
  • Member

  • 10,637 posts
  • Joined: September 15

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:19

Looked odd to say the least. Don’t think Max’ win was under significant threat though, so probably incompetence rather than some evil plan at work

#45 Disgrace

Disgrace
  • Member

  • 27,872 posts
  • Joined: January 10

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:20

not a conspiracy, it didnt really helped them, but this is insane incompetence and needs a investigation

 

Other than the seatbelts, there's really nothing to investigate.



#46 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 16,946 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:21

Exactly. Especially when AT sent him out again to try and continue the race. And they were in a points position, something you could hardly say about AT this season so they were trying to their best to score.

 

It's just pure stupidity to claim a conspiracy but then I have seen that its from the same few people as usual. 

 

No one took the Renault Alonso crash gate conspiracy until it was proven.

 

It's hardly unprecedented.



#47 noriaki

noriaki
  • Member

  • 1,901 posts
  • Joined: April 14

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:21

That's what people said about Singapore 2008.  Guess what?

 

Congrats, one correct. How about the other 999 conspiracy theories you've spread on these forums? 



#48 OvDrone

OvDrone
  • Member

  • 14,968 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:21

If it turn out that Tsunoda undid his belts thinking his race was over because of a loose wheel, then drove back to the pits anyway, that would be really, really bad, by the way. This was my guess during the race day thread, but I hope it’s not correct.

Let's think with that being the case, our dude decided to come to the pits with a potential loose wheel and an untied belt for a whole lap just to come in, get out and immediately be oh I can't continue it's the diff, so I am going to park it better in the worst place possible.



#49 Tenmantaylor

Tenmantaylor
  • Member

  • 16,946 posts
  • Joined: July 01

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:22

Looked odd to say the least. Don’t think Max’ win was under significant threat though, so probably incompetence rather than some evil plan at work

 

Just like Piquet Jnrs poor driving incompetence?



#50 Marklar

Marklar
  • Member

  • 43,657 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 04 September 2022 - 15:22

That's what people said about Singapore 2008.  Guess what?

one out of a million, and that one was really helping the team.