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Triple Crown of Motorbike Racing?


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#1 brands77

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Posted 05 September 2022 - 08:36

In car racing they have the "Triple Crown of Motorsport" which is someone who wins the Monaco Grand Prix, the Indy 500 and the Le Mans 24 hours - there is another version which is the F1 world title, Indy 500 and Le Mans 24 hrs, but this is less accepted.

 

Only Graham Hill has ever achieved this and he has done it both ways. Alonso is trying for it and I think Juan Pablo Montoya and Jaques Villeneuve have 2 legs of one or other of the versions.

 

I have always wondered if there is an equivalent for bike racing and what races would comprise it.

 

If there isn't may I suggest one and here are my first thoughts.

 

Assen TT (500c/MotoGP) - it's the only constant, like Monaco (although I know Monaco missed a few years), so would be the equivalent.

Bol D'Or - the direct equivalent of Le Mans

 

Is Assen a fair choice for the GP? If not what other round the Italian - but that has been at Misano, Imola, Mugello and Monza - it doesn't have the consistency of Assen. The British - same again TT, SIlverstone and Donington and then none of the others have been really constant enough.

 

The third leg poses a problem.

 

The Daytona 200 would be a nice fit, but nowadays it is a 600c race and the top racers, even in the states don't race it. It started to lose international racers in 1990s and since 2005 hasn't even been using the top class in the US.

The TT would be nice, but now is too specialised for GP racers to even attempt it. I think he last GP racer to seriously do it was Danny Webb and Danny only raced 125s.

 

My option would be the Suzuka 8hrs. It's been around a while, different types of riders race it and it is a big  prestigious race. However, it only started in 1978 and I guess only became big news in the 80s.

 

Bathurst may be a slight possibility, but I think not enough international racers have done it.

 

I can't think of another third option that is international enough (i.e. outside of Europe), prestigious enough (i.e. gets GP racers doing it) and been around long enough. Someone may enlighten me though.

 

Whatever way no-one has won it.

 

Any suggestions?

 

If we took Assen/Bol/Suzuka - the following have 2 legs Rossi, Wayne Gardner, Doohan and Dominique Sarron

If we took Assen/Bol/Daytona - the following have 2 legs Rossi, Wayne Gardner, Doohan, Schwantz, Miguel Duhamel, Agostini and Kenny Roberts

 

Maybe we can launch a campaign to get one recognised!

 

If it were Assen/Bol/Suzuka then we might see Rossi at the Bol D'Or. That might rescue the WEC series which I think has lost it's way since it stopped giving points to the riders. I can't seem to get interested in finding out which team won a race, I want to know which riders have won. For me it has become an anonymous series.

If it were Assen/Bol/Daytona we might see some GP racers over there and even see Superbikes racing the 200, you never know.

 

We might see - Rossi at Daytona? Stoner at Daytona or the Bol? Lorenzo back?


Edited by brands77, 05 September 2022 - 08:36.


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#2 Robin127

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Posted 05 September 2022 - 17:54

...Superbikes racing the 200...
 

 

 

 

There's got to be a big improvement in tyre technology for that to happen again.  The manufacturers have even had problems with ones for 600's such are the unique characteristics of the banking at Daytona.



#3 GregThomas

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Posted 05 September 2022 - 21:47

There has been discussion on the car "triple crown" lately which appears to show it was originally the World Drivers title, Indianapolis and Le Mans. So a season long championship, a historic oddball race outside the roadracing mainstream and a 24 hour race.

 

The bike equivalents to these IMO would be :

 

Premier class roadrace title - 500cc or MotoGP

Major non title historic race - Senior TT IOM

24 hour race                        - Bol D'Or

 

Given it's importance you could substitute the Suzuka 8 hours for the Bol.  I'd also pick that if this version has been done it would have been in the 1950's or 60's



#4 brands77

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Posted 06 September 2022 - 18:29

I think the series has to be achievable. For the car series Alonso is going for it, albeit once he returned to F1 he stopped or put it on hold, but it is doable.

 

So as much as I am for the TT realistically no GP racer or ex-GP racer is going to race it and the same thing stands for the Daytona 200. Petrucci is doing Moto America this year and didn't race it.

 

Daytona would maybe work if the tyres caught up, as Robin127 says, but then they have always been a problem, I think Cecotto finished on canvas in 1976 when he won it. I guess you could force riders to change or they may just have to do pit stops after all they do it in Endurance races, perhaps Daytona needs to accept that pit stops are part of the race.

The top 500c/MotoGP riders have done Suzuka fairly regularly and with a bit of effort from the FIM the WEC, and with it the Bol, might become relevant again and so top riders may consider it, maybe after retiring from MotoGP.

 

Also I favour the one race rather than series option, so recken that it should be the Assen TT over the MotoGP/500 championship since the other options for the crown are single races.


Edited by brands77, 06 September 2022 - 18:36.


#5 Robin127

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Posted 06 September 2022 - 21:14

There are pit stops in the 200 to change tyres and refuel, most stop two or three times.



#6 GregThomas

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Posted 06 September 2022 - 21:14

The original aim of a Triple crown as i uinderstand it was to prove a driver's versatility.  I sincerely doubt if we'll ever see a roadracer winning at speedway and motocross so that aspect is probably moot. 

The nearest the sport has come afaik would be the old AMA National series where occasionally someone would win a roadrace, half mile, mile and TT in one season.

Dick Mann and Roberts I think did that.



#7 Doug Nye

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Posted 07 September 2022 - 06:47

The so-called triple crown within motor racing - as being for cars and drivers - wasn't at all in period something that "was aimed to prove a driver's versatility" in the sense that nobody - repeat, nobody - actually set it as a distinct target.  It was just an achievement which the press noticed as being a possibility following Graham Hill's Indy win in 1966.  "If he ever wins Le Mans what a notable 'triple crown' that would be".

 

Through happenstance Graham found himself finally in with a real chance of winning Le Mans with Matra in 1972, teamed with Henri Pescarolo.  To Pesca's amazement - and Graham's delight (at the earnings secured) - the former World Champion and Indy winner really went for it, and won again...that informal 'triple crown' secured.

 

Much twaddle has emerged in recent years about 'his' triple crown comprising wins at Monaco, Indy and Le Mans.  Beyond everyone having the total freedom to decide upon their own triple crown of notability - say the Silverstone Commander Yorke Trophy, North-West 200 and Tholt-y-Will hill-climb - such talk of those three achievements representing the 'triple crown' recognised in 1972 is total cobblers.

 

DCN


Edited by Doug Nye, 07 September 2022 - 06:47.


#8 Vitesse2

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Posted 07 September 2022 - 07:33

Although, ignoring the 'Monaco twaddle' - which I think we have successfully run to ground and debunked here previously - Mario Andretti, Jacques Villeneuve and Fernando Alonso are all reputed to have wanted to emulate Graham's achievement and to have taken active steps to do so. Jacques, at least, is on record as saying he wanted to do it, but - like Mario - has only a second place at Le Mans, while Fernando hasn't won the 500.



#9 brands77

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Posted 09 September 2022 - 12:17

Although the triple crown isn't an official title and by no means is definitive as to what it is, it is interesting for some, maybe many, fans to speculate about it and if Alonso, Andretti and Villeneuve have gone for it, it must mean something.

At the very least it adds another layer of interest to the sport.

What seems to be the pattern is that the top drivers go for it when they have retired from F1.

Why not have one for bikes? I would like to see Rossi, Dovisioso, maybe even Stoner and I might add Marquez if he has to retire soon - on a bike again. There is pretty much no chance they would get back into MotoGP if they wanted to come back, but I would bet all would be competitive at Suzuka, the Bol or Daytona on a Superbike. If there was triple crown for bikes, it might be just enough to tempt them back to go for it, at the moment there is not much chance of seeing any of them again. They may not be able to win a GP now, but I reckon they could certainly win any of the other races and it would benefit any of these races to have them in the field. Ok  none of these races lack for crowds, but when was the last time the Bol or Suzuka was in the press outside the specialist media, I can't remember.

I bet if Rossi did the Bol saying he wanted to do it to get a "triple crown", it would be big news. Also I figure if Rossi attempted it and didn't quite make it, Marquez might just go for it when he retired, just to get one over on him!


Edited by brands77, 09 September 2022 - 12:24.


#10 tonyed

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Posted 09 September 2022 - 14:44

Marquez do the Bol   :confused:  24 hours of racing, he can't stay upright for 24 minutes  :wave:



#11 brands77

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Posted 12 September 2022 - 13:10

Maybe, but it would be interesting to watch.

 

I also would like to see him up against Razgatlioglu and Rea on a superbike. I can see those 2 giving as good as they get when he starts his nonsense.



#12 Rodaknee

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 06:19

Been done by Sammy Miller.

 

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