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Paying for accidents in classic car races


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#1 TerryS

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 06:49

With the increasing value of classic race cars so the cost of repairing them has also increases.

The suggestion has been raised that the offender in an on-track accident should bear some if not all of the cost of repairing the other party's race car This could be 100%, 75% 50% or 0%.

If something is not done, then more owners will leave their precious cars in sheds and not bring them out so we can see how they used to run. This not what we want.

After all, on the open road the offender in an accident is responsible for the repairs to both parties' vehicles.

Here is an Editorial from Vintage Racecar magazine on this topic.

Presented for consideration and your comments.

If you’ve been around historic racing for any amount of time, then you will be familiar with one of the most self-limiting factors of the sport… the chilling effect of accidents. Funny enough, it isn’t the prospect of bodily harm that keeps owners from bringing their prized possessions out on the track, it is the risk of having their valuable investments damaged by some idiot consumed with the “red mist.”

This has always been an underlining problem, but as significant cars have steadily migrated up into the millions—if not the tens of millions of dollars—range it has become increasingly rare to see any number of Ferraris, Porsches and even Jaguars out competing at anything but the most exclusive and prestigious events…. and now, even those events might be in question.

I received an email recently from Duncan Wiltshire, leader of Motor Racing Legends, which among other events, organizes stunning fields at events like Le Mans and Silverstone Classic. In his email, Wiltshire struck an uncharacteristically grave tone, “It will have escaped no one’s attention that the tremendous success of last weekend’s Classic was marred by a small number of serious lapses in driving standards in some of our grids. Whilst racing accidents will, and do, happen, it is clear from the responses received since the weekend that I am not alone in finding the level of needless damage that occurred unacceptable. Across two of our grids, eleven cars suffered serious damage. That’s eleven cars whose owners are now looking at substantial rebuild expenses resulting from avoidable accidents.”

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“Please have your accountant contact my fabricator."

As a result, Wiltshire is considering adopting what amounts to historic racing’s equivalent of the nuclear option…shared financial liability. Wiltshire stated, “What is clear is that something must be done. It is well known that one Continental organizer requires any driver held responsible for accident damage to another car is expected to cover 50% of the cost of that car’s repair bill. Extreme, perhaps, but driving standards are reported to be excellent as a result.”

Nothing dissipates the red mist like a firm draining of the checking account. Can you imagine the instantaneous calculus that might now occur as a driver contemplates, first his/her line, then the closing speed and finally the most recent auction sales on the Maserati Birdcage he/she is considering dive-bombing? Pre-race checklists might now have to include current 401K balances, as well as tire pressures.

Is this an extreme measure? Yes. Will this stifle hammer-and-tongs racing? Most likely. But really, that is the underlining philosophical dilemma. We love to see the old cars really racing. But there comes a point in time, in the extended life cycle of something treasured, where that really is no longer practical or sensible. So we’re left with the existential question, do we want to see fewer and fewer of these cars “racing” on track, or can we be happy with seeing a larger selection of these significant vehicles being exercised with vigor and a reserved degree of caution. My hunch is that Duncan may be on the leading edge of a broader movement that will eventually sweep across all the big, international events. If not, those events will eventually shrivel away themselves.

Of course, this does raise the unintended consequence that, if implemented, now only the richest drivers will drive like assholes!

All the best,
Casey Annis, Editor



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#2 Doug Nye

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 07:16

That pay-off paragraph is wonderful.  But not necessarily true, since almost all of the richest owners employ professional drivers.  

 

While some enthusiast drivers often care more for their own results than for car preservation, professional drivers seldom think of anything else.

 

Worthwhile, mass-entry, genuine Historic racing at its uppermost levels could well be priced out of existence - not so much by measures such as mooted above, but simply by market forces.

 

If every old banger was buyable for a four-figure sum we might be able to turn back the clock.

 

If only. Which realism is a source of regret.  Everything has its day.  As with so much else I suspect we have long since seen the best of it.

 

DCN



#3 Derwent Motorsport

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 07:25

You would need some sort of tribunal to apportion blame though. That could end up in costly legal disputes. You also get races where the cars have hugely different values and their owners different financial resources.  It would put those of us who are not wealthy off from competing in case we got a massive bill for more than we are worth.



#4 ensign14

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 07:34

Legally, this already exists.  In sporting events, you are taken to be consenting to some sort of contact that would be criminal on the streets; so you can't sue for a 'normal' foul in football.  But that runs within certain parameters.  You do not consent to be taken by a two-footed tackle at the neck,  So for a genuinely godawful foul on you, you can sue.  And of course this is covered by insurers.

 

Therefore, if your classic is taken out by a piece of loutish driving, you could sue the loutish driver.  The difficulty is in proving that the loutish driver was indeed going way beyond the standard which anyone would expect on the racetrack.  I'm not sure it's ever happened in motor racing; it has in road race cycling.  The classic case in fact is Hall v BARC which was spectators hit by an out-of-control Talbot at Brooklands and the plaintiffs lost in that one.  Which shows how high the threshold is.

 

The quick and dirty way around it is to make arbitration a part of any entry terms, and have one person make a decision on liability inside ten weeks.  Get the Go Pros and statements to them ASAP.  But I'm not sure how satisfactory that is.  But the advantage of arbitration is that they are next to impossible to appeal.



#5 Stephen W

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 07:37

You would need some sort of tribunal to apportion blame though. That could end up in costly legal disputes. You also get races where the cars have hugely different values and their owners different financial resources.  It would put those of us who are not wealthy off from competing in case we got a massive bill for more than we are worth.

 

You would also need "some sort of tribunal" to determine the TRUE value of the damaged car rather than go off how much some wealthy idiot has (a) paid for the car, and (b) spent on the car. This additional tribunal would also have to provide an estimate of the cost of repairs. Cue the legal eagles to treble the costs.



#6 ensign14

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 08:30

"You owe me £50m for totalling my original ex-Fangio 250F."

 

"Erm, the chassis plate suggests it's ex-Volonterio, so I'll offer £37."



#7 AllanL

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 08:32

Perhaps timely for passing round the paddock at the Goodwood Revival.

 

Some years the quality of driving at the Revival has been abysmal. Things seem to improve for a while when the Duke reads the riot act to the drivers before the start of the weekend, then gradually tail off again.

 

I recall there was a year when some were told not to darken Goodwood's door again, but that may have been due to "tweeks to cars" that went beyond the permissible rather than driving standards. There was even a peddle car race winner that was disqualified for excessive lightening of the chassis! I digress as always.

 

Apportioning blame could also need to take into consideration third parties. At the last Goodwood Revival there was a coming together between a GT40 and a T70 at Madgwick that was the result of a third party car leaking oil all round the track. The offending car had been spotted leaking the oil in the paddock before practise got underway, but no official made any effort to bar it from going out on track.

 

Goodwood won a court case brought against them after a driver was seriously injured after colliding with a possibly ill-placed trackside camera, so legal action can be expensive and throw up results that an aggrieved party may not care for.

 

You only have to look at some of the recent bizarre libel cases, and their results that have racked up huge costs for all concerned, to see how tricky courts can be.

 

Would mandatory insurance be prohibitive to those at the back of the grid or even the front?



#8 BRG

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 08:46

All quite ridiculous.  You enter any motor race at your own risk.  Anything can happen, whether deliberate (thankfully very rare) or accidental.  If you don't like that, then keep your precious asset in tis car-coon.



#9 Sterzo

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 09:04

Surely the first rule of problem solving is to identify the problem and address that, not the side-effects. We're allowing "serious lapses in driving standards"? What on Earth is anyone doing talking about repair costs?



#10 10kDA

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 13:05

Totally ridiculous. When I started racing, the point was made that every time we went out on the track, for practice, qualifying, or racing, our equipment and our health was at risk. Every rider had to be prepared to deal with rolling up their bike into a ball, and/or leaving the track by ambulance. At the end of my first track riding school, one instructor asked "Can you afford to swallow the cost of a totally destroyed race bike? Can you afford to miss work for a week? Can you afford to miss work on Monday? If not, maybe you should think about doing something else for fun." How is it different for the so-called "well heeled" enthusiast/racer?

 

One person asking "the other guy" to pay for a financial risk they have undertaken by their own choice is not rational. No guarantees in racing. However, if we are talking about an exhibition of some sort, I can see where it could be appropriate for the organizers to require all participants to carry insurance coverage for liability. But who determines liability? Stewards? The Court Of After-The-Fact YouToob Observers? 

 

Then of course there are the fans whining about processions of vintage race cars, wanting "real" close racing and criticizing owners, drivers, and driver/owners for not pushing their equipment close to the limit. If that's the only thing that satisfies these fans, maybe watching period TV recordings on YouToob featuring the cars and drivers in action at their respective peaks would be more enjoyable.

 

My race "team's" motto was: "In the all-consuming quest for speed, there is no substitute for cubic dollars." If that truism is negatively impacting one's participation, one should consider pursuing sponsors. Hint: I doubt your fellow competitors will sign up to underwrite your expenses, even if the organizers mandate from On High to do so by assigning blame for on-track incidents. They will find other things to do for fun and rightly leave this no-longer-sporting activity.


Edited by 10kDA, 13 September 2022 - 13:07.


#11 D-Type

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 13:24

Are we going about this the wrong way?  Historic racing is essentially amateur, admittedly usually well-heeled amateurs, and any proposed solution should reflect this.
How about a scheme where every entrant pays a hefty deposit.  Any repairs to damage from racing incidents is paid from this fund and the balance returned to the competitors.  Compensation should be limited to audited repair costs and with no element of loss of value due to loss of originality.  It could be a "no blame" system or there could be "some sort of tribunal" who could allocate blame and costs in extreme cases.

By involving the whole field, it is likely that miscreants will be subjected to peer pressure ranging from a "telling off" up to ostracism



#12 ensign14

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 13:24

Surely the first rule of problem solving is to identify the problem and address that, not the side-effects. We're allowing "serious lapses in driving standards"? What on Earth is anyone doing talking about repair costs?

That's all well and good, but you could have someone meek as a mouse on track suddenly lose their temper/control/bearings and there's no foreseeing that.



#13 Doug Nye

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 15:14

Clearly in this case, lots and lots of "don't even go there" flags are flying.    :rolleyes:

 

DCN 



#14 Jack-the-Lad

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 16:14

Establishing responsibility, culpability, liability, etc., would open the proverbial litigation can of worms.  I don’t know the system in the U.K., but in the U.S. such rules would likely give rise to a cottage industry of endless and rancorous litigation.  Legal  options are available now without enshrining financial penalties in the rules of historic racing.  I don’t know if any on-course incidents have ever resulted in court battles, but it’s always possible that arguments have been settled out of court and not in the public record.  I’d think that simple banishment would be the best way to discourage dangerous or irresponsible driving, 



#15 Tom Glowacki

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Posted 13 September 2022 - 16:15

Are we going about this the wrong way?  Historic racing is essentially amateur, admittedly usually well-heeled amateurs, and any proposed solution should reflect this.
How about a scheme where every entrant pays a hefty deposit.  Any repairs to damage from racing incidents is paid from this fund and the balance returned to the competitors.  Compensation should be limited to audited repair costs and with no element of loss of value due to loss of originality.  It could be a "no blame" system or there could be "some sort of tribunal" who could allocate blame and costs in extreme cases.

By involving the whole field, it is likely that miscreants will be subjected to peer pressure ranging from a "telling off" up to ostracism

As a retired attorney, the "no blame", or "no fault" approach would be preferable and would avoid the arguments over whether the accident was caused by the oil on the track from an identified car or whether the "he cut me off vs. you braked late" possibilities would apply.  As an historic "racing" spectator, I really do not care whether the fund manager in the Maserati or the venture capitalist in the Ferrari won, although those narcissistic types do care.  I cooled on the racing action part some years ago at Road America when a field of pukka Can-Am cars put on a good show, but the race was won by a "bitza" composed of the chassis of one type, the body of another, and the engine of third, although all of the same manufacturer won.  The driver of that car really, really, wanted to win the big race.  Back in the day, that car, at best, might have qualified way at the back of the pack.  I would be happier to see a well spaced out field with the cars going only as fast as the drivers' competence and skill allowed, demonstration.


Edited by Tom Glowacki, 13 September 2022 - 16:16.


#16 Lee Nicolle

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Posted 14 September 2022 - 00:25

Motorracing is dangerous, you enter at your own risk. 

Proven bad/ stupid driving should be in the hands of the stewards.

Historic racing is no different to any other racing. THOUGH ofcourse commonsense should prevail.

And if there is a real problem organisers can refuse entry. Which has always been the case.

Illegal cars?? From what I see on the telecast a lot are. Though I do not know the rules they race under, in this case in the UK.



#17 MattPete

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Posted 14 September 2022 - 01:16

Why not proportion blame based on the ratio of their net worth?



#18 DouglasM

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Posted 14 September 2022 - 01:45

To me it's very simple, if you can't afford to 'total' your car, don't race it. If you stuff you car in the bank or marshal's post then it's not the bank, the post's fault or even the track's fault; it's your fault. The other drivers are just as daft as you and will do daft things. That's motor racing.



#19 barrykm

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Posted 14 September 2022 - 06:16

That 910 in the first post looked to be in fine condition. 

 

Out of interest, where does get a 910 repaired?



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#20 Myhinpaa

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Posted 14 September 2022 - 07:37

908-011: https://www.goodingc...sche-908-coupe/  ($ 3.000 000 - 3.300 000 No sale)

 

Dieter Eissner-Eissenstein in Salzburg has been known to restore several Porsche 906 - 910 (Not 908-011 though)



#21 john aston

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Posted 14 September 2022 - 08:18

I think a point may have been missed . The value of 'iconic' racing  cars may have rocketed to absurd levels  in recent years but that doesn't mean they have to cost  any more to repair than a car of similar vintage , but 'inferior ' provenance . 50 million quid Ferrari GTOs may have a more  expensive engine to fix than an Austin Healey  but as for the rest - we're just looking at fixing an old car. The difference is that even if you pushed a GTO off a high cliff its restored value would far exceed the costs of repair  .  



#22 Charlieman

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Posted 14 September 2022 - 10:03

While some enthusiast drivers often care more for their own results than for car preservation, professional drivers seldom think of anything else.

I'm not sure that's always the case. I recall an interview with Emanuele Pirro when he says that looking after the car is his imperative. He doesn't drive as fast as he can but to the best of his ability.



#23 BRG

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Posted 14 September 2022 - 10:08

That 910 in the first post looked to be in fine condition. 

 

Out of interest, where does get a 910 repaired?

Any Porsche dealer.  It will still be under warranty.    ;)



#24 barrykm

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Posted 14 September 2022 - 13:15

Yeah, right... :lol:



#25 barrykm

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 05:51

Any Porsche dealer.  It will still be under warranty.    ;)

 

But seriously though, out of interest, I can understand that it must be relatively easier to repair an historic Lotus, or March and suchlike (no disrespect), but a Porche 910? Would this be some preserve of specialist German operations, or are these repairs also handled by UK specialists?



#26 68targa

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 08:05

If UK specialsts can restore pre-war Auto Unions and Mercedes, endless Lola T70's and build new BRM V16's they could tackle a 910 before breakfast  :lol: 



#27 Ray Bell

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 08:54

I'm sure you could get it repaired quite satisfactorily in Australia, even New Zealand, too...

 

Especially in Adelaide.



#28 arttidesco

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 09:45

But seriously though, out of interest, I can understand that it must be relatively easier to repair an historic Lotus, or March and suchlike (no disrespect), but a Porche 910? Would this be some preserve of specialist German operations, or are these repairs also handled by UK specialists?

A 910 or even a 917 could be sorted out, repaired and or restored by pretty much any competent race shop or restoration business, some kudos may or may not be attached to a reputable name or brand operation doing the work but at the end its just a pile of metal and glass fibre bits and pieces beatifully machined, crafted and assembled just like many other racing vehicles. In terms of getting the work done properly there is nothing particularly special about it being a 910, 250 GTO, or even 300SLR  :wave:



#29 Charlieman

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 09:49

If UK specialsts can restore pre-war Auto Unions and Mercedes, endless Lola T70's and build new BRM V16's they could tackle a 910 before breakfast  :lol:

A couple of thoughts...

 

The BRM V16 replicas are being built with access to original drawings. The Auto Union replicas are essentially reverse engineered based on photographs and the mixed boxes of original parts and partially complete original cars. Lola T70 replicas obviously vary in authenticity but original drawings and genuine (but well used) cars exist for reference.

 

In all cases, some materials are no longer available in Imperial dimensions. Fuel bags, flexible fluid lines, wiring, shell and roller bearings -- these things are all made to modern standards. For the Auto Unions, considerable research was conducted to establish how the cars were built. Eg the dimensions and material used for the longitudinal chassis members were unknown for some models-- hence my description as reverse engineered. Original tools to make the BRM suspension struts or supercharger were scrapped decades ago, so the replica components are very much 21st century products. 3D printing allows remanufacture of components which formerly would be uneconomical.

 

British, Australian and NZ specialists would be able to repair a Porsche 910 chassis and bodywork. German specialists can provide brakes, instruments and electrics. However I do not think that drive train repair is a trivial exercise if it is to be built to original specification. All standard bits, apart from the bits which aren't standard and for which only a few have the recipe.



#30 arttidesco

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 10:10

Going back to the original question I believe all competitors must have it clear in their minds that while motor racing is absolutely not a contact sport by entering any vehicle into a competition puts said vehicle at risk of total destruction for any number of reasons for which no one but the owner can be held to financial account, if one can't afford to lose or insure ones vehicle against total loss one should not risk it.

 

On the question of driving standards I remember way back in the day someone confessing in the press to taking another competitor out to ensure a championship in one of the lower formula and being dissappointed the protagonist was not thrown out of the sport for bringing it into disrepute, he got away with it. A couple of years later another driver behaved in a similar manner to secure his minor championship on more than one occasion, again I was very dissapointed he were also not thrown out of the sport that I have always understood to be a non contact sport. SInce then we have had a TV celebrity live on on air delighting on giving fellow competitors 'love taps' and allsorts of madness in Eff Wun between alleged champions and their team mates. Much of this unseemlines could have been avoided if the governing bodies responsible for setting standards had taken a properly robust view of their responsibilities for ensuring the motor sport remains a non contact sport. In light of the abdication of these responsibilities by the governing bodies in the higher echelons of the sport can we be surprised at the actions of trophy hunters and other miscreants in the lower echelons ?


Edited by arttidesco, 16 September 2022 - 10:16.


#31 aportinga

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 18:07

Knew a guy who had a 1962 Cobra - wrapped it around a tree at Road America.

 

Paid for all the repairs himself.



#32 Emery0323

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 18:23

A 910 or even a 917 could be sorted out, repaired and or restored by pretty much any competent race shop or restoration business, some kudos may or may not be attached to a reputable name or brand operation doing the work but at the end its just a pile of metal and glass fibre bits and pieces beatifully machined, crafted and assembled just like many other racing vehicles. In terms of getting the work done properly there is nothing particularly special about it being a 910, 250 GTO, or even 300SLR  :wave:

As an example, the Gunnar racing shop has restored repaired a number of Porsche prototype racers from the 1960's-1970's, including a couple of historically significant 917s.  Typically those cars were constructed of aluminum tube frames with fiberglass panels.   Here's an introduction:

https://www.roadandt...orsche-insider/



#33 Emery0323

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Posted 16 September 2022 - 18:31

Establishing responsibility, culpability, liability, etc., would open the proverbial litigation can of worms.  I don’t know the system in the U.K., but in the U.S. such rules would likely give rise to a cottage industry of endless and rancorous litigation.  Legal  options are available now without enshrining financial penalties in the rules of historic racing.  I don’t know if any on-course incidents have ever resulted in court battles, but it’s always possible that arguments have been settled out of court and not in the public record.  I’d think that simple banishment would be the best way to discourage dangerous or irresponsible driving, 

Related - I am a bit surprised that nobody has mentioned the David Piper vs Mark Hales case from over 10 years ago, where a UK court found Hales liable for the engine rebuild on a Porsche 917 owned by Piper:

https://www.sportsca...5k-missed-shift



#34 john aston

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 06:14

But that was very different - it was a private , solo test where the risks hadn't been properly evaluated or insured. As Hales found out to his cost 



#35 TerryS

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 07:17

This is this week's follow up editorial from Vintage Racecar:

I’ve long felt that one of my highest editorial duties is to use this space to serve as an “automotive provocateur”, which is just a fancy way to say I pull the pin on the grenade, roll it into the room and then sit back and see what happens. I never really know what will “light up” that room, but last week’s editorial on financial responsibility as a way of curtailing the red mist, certainly seemed to hit a nerve.

I received a ton of emails, from all around the world, surprisingly in support of the notion, though the lion’s share (and most emphatic) came from Australia. In fact, two separate historic race organizations from opposite ends of the country, asked if they could reprint the piece in their club magazines. One member agreed wholeheartedly that driver conduct was limiting the caliber of cars, citing his own experience where his Lotus Elite suffered $20,000 in damage as a result of a banzai move by an MG overcome with visions of fame and glory. After having to bear that financial burden alone, the hapless Lotus owner is now gun-shy about bringing his car back out onto the track. Like a seemingly growing chorus of others, he feels it’s high time for a deeper discussion of more serious deterrents for these episodes of brain fade.

e815a35a-3931-42af-aac8-002614f9183e.jpg

"Go sit in the corner...you get a 13-month time out!"

Alternatively, a reader and noted historic racer here in California suggested that the best solution might be the one originally wielded by pioneering promoter Steve Earle. That was the dreaded 13/13 rule, whereby if you were found guilty of causing an accident that did any kind of damage, you were subject to an immediate 13-month or 13-race ban. This always put the fear of God into racers at the Monterey Historic Automobile Races, for fear of not being able to return the following year, but where it fell down was in the lack of a reporting system across ALL historic events. Some clubs did not support/honor the same rule and as such, there was no central clearing house for reporting the infractions, so oftentimes a driver banned in one club, would just move along and race with another for the next 13 months.

Whether you subscribe to financial penalties, 13/13 bans or the mandatory display of scarlet “A”s on a driver’s car to indicate an “Accident Magnet”, the historic racing world seems primed and receptive for a better system to control bad driving behavior.

With that said, I’ll just leave this grenade here…while I step out for a moment.

All the best,
Casey Annis, Editor



#36 ensign14

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 07:51

The problem above was obvious, Race Control had told car no. 6 to take the inside line there.



#37 10kDA

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 11:37

Never forget an "automotive provocateur's" editorial duties has circulation/clicks at the top of the list.

 

 

Some of the drivers involved blamed the starter. I hope he's able to cover the costs, and his employer's pockets are very deep. Just rolling this grenade in there.


Edited by 10kDA, 17 September 2022 - 11:41.


#38 arttidesco

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Posted 17 September 2022 - 15:29

Never forget an "automotive provocateur's" editorial duties has circulation/clicks at the top of the list.

 

Some of the drivers involved blamed the starter. I hope he's able to cover the costs, and his employer's pockets are very deep. Just rolling this grenade in there.

 

Simialr thing happened at the start of a historic / classic race at Laguna Seca somewhere between 2011 and 2015 cars started losing it before they even crossed the start line, one overtook nearly a dozen cars between the last corner of the pace lap and the start line, absolute madness, the cost of repairs to all those vehicles would make ones eyes water.



#39 TerryS

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Posted 09 October 2022 - 23:46

DOES THE PUNISHMENT FIT THE CRIME?

 

A variation on the thread title.

 

On Saturday in the final practice for the Bathurst 1000. van Gisbergen, whilst attempting to pass, forced Macauley Jones into the fence which destroyed all the Jones car behind the back window.

 

This forced the Jones team to work well into Saturday night to rebuild the car. But they are never as good after such a crash.

 

For his efforts van Gisbergen was demoted three grid spots for Sunday's race, Really, three grid spots for a 1000 km race. Hardly a penalty.

 

van Gisbergen stared in seventh spot, and went on to WIN the race

 

Does the punishment fit the crime?

 

I'm sure there are many other similar examples over the years.   



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#40 Doug Nye

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Posted 10 October 2022 - 06:00

For most of the owner/racers I know, I think the overall reaction to a question as posed by this thread would be a shrug, and a comment along the lines that "If you can't stand the heat - stay out of the kitchen"... until their own car gets damaged due to the perceived idiocy of a competitor...    :rolleyes:

 

When my late friend Robert Brooks's early over-enthusiasm triggered a multiple pile-up at Donington Park he went off to chase around the paddock afterwards offering to pay at least part of the other owner-drivers' damage. Before he got very far he was almost literally wrestled to the ground by the vastly experienced John Harper, grating "Don't you dare do that!". 

 

"It'll queer the pitch for the rest of us!".

 

DCN


Edited by Doug Nye, 10 October 2022 - 06:00.


#41 john aston

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Posted 10 October 2022 - 07:33

Let us not confuse mistakes , red mist moments and over robust driving with criminality . Vic Lee was a criminal for off track offences , but the likes of AJ Foyt , Clay Reggazoni and Jack Brabham were guilty of nothing more than of being hard bastards behind the wheel .