30 replies to this topic

[Roadhouse]

Here we go again! 

 

Timetable:

https://www.goodwood...-day/timetable/

 

Enjoy!

[krapmeister]

Fantastic! I was wondering what I was going ro be watching this weekend - so that's sorted it

[milestone 11]

https://twitter.com/...419675099369472

[Roadhouse]

https://twitter.com/...419675099369472

 

Longer version

Edited by Roadhouse, 16 September 2022 - 09:24.

[milestone 11]

Practice and Parades all day but the race schedule as follows, all race classes and details will be found here

and full event schedule timing here 

 

 

Friday

 

!8:25 Race 1. Freddie March Memorial Trophy  (For sportscars from the late-1940s and early-1950s)

 

Saturday

 

10:10 Race 2 . Madgwick Cup  (For sportscars under 2.0-litres from 1948-‘55)

 

11:20 Race 3. Barry Sheene Memorial Trophy  (For 1950s motorcycles)

 

13;10 Race 4. Glover Trophy  (For 1.5-litre Grand Prix cars from 1961-1965)

 

15:05 Race 5. St. Mary's Trophy  (For production-based saloons from 1960-1966)

 

15:55 Race 6. Goodwood Trophy  (For Grand Prix and Voiturette cars from either side of WWII)

 

16:40 Race 7. Whitsun Trophy  (For sports prototypes from 1960-1966)

 

17:30 Race 8. Stirling Moss Memorial Trophy  (For pre-1963 GT cars)

 

Sunday

 

09:40 Race 9. Chichester Cup  (For rear-engined drum-braked Formula Junior cars)

 

10:30 Race 10. Richmond & Gordon Trophies  (For 2.5-litre front- and rear-engined Grand Prix cars from 1952 to 1960)

 

12:15 Race 11. Barry Sheene Memorial Trophy  (For 1950s motorcycles)

 

14:30 Race 12. Royal Automobile Club TT Celebration  (For closed-cockpit GT and prototypes from 1960-1964)

 

15:55 Race 14. Lavant Cup (13 never used) (One-make MGB race)

 

16:45 Race 15 Sussex Trophy  (For world championship sportscars from 1955 to 1960)

 

17:35 Race 16 St. Mary's Trophy  (For production-based saloons from 1960-1966)

 

Edited by milestone 11, 16 September 2022 - 11:21.

[ExFlagMan]

Motor racing without the B**l***T!

 

Just had marshals giving a textbook illustration of the proper way to treat an oil slick.

[BoDarvelle]

I've seen mid/late 70's Camaros running but they don't fit the classes listed above. The 1970 Mustangs don't fit either. What/when do they run?

 

eta-Have to say it's kind of funny watching them sliding around on the tiny tires they have to run.

Edited by BoDarvelle, 16 September 2022 - 15:13.

[milestone 11]

I could have done without Huewen doing the commentary on the bikes.

Edited by milestone 11, 17 September 2022 - 10:26.

[Roadhouse]

I'd love a modern equivalent of these old GP cars.

[milestone 11]

I'd love a modern equivalent of these old GP cars.

They still look rapid in context.

[HerbieMcQueen]

Seeing veteran drivers I know like Dixie and JB sawing away at the wheel of a classic car just makes me smile. Great event.

[krapmeister]

Jenson Button currently pulling away at over 3 secs a lap from the 2nd place car in the TT race

Edit: Ah that explains the pace - Jenson was driving a Newey-mobile (e-type Jag owned by Adrian Newey)

Edited by krapmeister, 18 September 2022 - 14:03.

[milestone 11]

Great to see Ed Foster, probably the most well known Goodwood face, winning the Lavant cup. I thought he was going to have a seizure, so thrilled was he.

[milestone 11]

Galaxies and Huewen should never be allowed near Goodwood again.

[juicy sushi]

Jenson Button currently pulling away at over 3 secs a lap from the 2nd place car in the TT race

Edit: Ah that explains the pace - Jenson was driving a Newey-mobile (e-type Jag owned by Adrian Newey)

The fact they ever let that thing on the grid boggles my mind.  It's like the most clearly inappropriately not-vintage but very old race car possible.

[krapmeister]

The fact they ever let that thing on the grid boggles my mind. It's like the most clearly inappropriately not-vintage but very old race car possible.

Maybe they knew it would be fast, but as a Newey-mobile liable to be fragile?

[Dan333SP]

The fact they ever let that thing on the grid boggles my mind.  It's like the most clearly inappropriately not-vintage but very old race car possible.

 

Haven't kept up with Goodwood... is this all a joke or does Newey really have some special era-inappropriate modifications on that Jag that the competitors wouldn't have access to, other than Button at the wheel? 

[juicy sushi]

I've seen mid/late 70's Camaros running but they don't fit the classes listed above. The 1970 Mustangs don't fit either. What/when do they run?

 

eta-Have to say it's kind of funny watching them sliding around on the tiny tires they have to run.

Those run during the Member's Meeting event, which I think is in the Spring.

[juicy sushi]

Haven't kept up with Goodwood... is this all a joke or does Newey really have some special era-inappropriate modifications on that Jag that the competitors wouldn't have access to, other than Button at the wheel? 

I am not completely sure, but the RAC TT has definitely evolved over the years from "the one with the GTOs and E-Types" into "hot-rodded E-Types and Cobras stomp everything else entered."  I am not sure what level of modification is permitted.  But every time Newey brings his E-type, it's demonstrably quicker than every other car by a margin, and doesn't even look like the rest while in motion.  It's much lower and does not pitch or roll like the other cars in the class do.  I am quite certain he's tweaked it in ways that no one else figured out.

[juicy sushi]

Maybe they knew it would be fast, but as a Newey-mobile liable to be fragile?

It's gone the distance before.  And wasn't any closer to the pack that I can recall.

[artyparty]

The fact they ever let that thing on the grid boggles my mind.  It's like the most clearly inappropriately not-vintage but very old race car possible.

Couldn't agree more! You've only got to look at the thing to see how the bodywork has been massaged to provide aero advantages. Having access to wind tunnel has its advantages! It's sad how the TT has developed, as have many of the races. You only have to look back at the lap times from ten years ago to see the marked difference. The St Mary's Trophy is a case in point. You don't all have to be doing 120mph down the Lavant Straight to provide a spectacle, or close racing for that matter. You don't seem to get any of the more interesting leftfield cars that ran back in the day at all and it's just the same old names and cars in so many of the races. Too many professional drivers as well. 

[juicy sushi]

I have no problem with the pro drivers, as they seem to generally ensure some of the more insane passing attempts are no longer being done, but very much agree that the continued investment in making the cars more competitive has meant the variety is gone as only the “best” base cars are able to be tuned to suit.

[paulb]

Haven't kept up with Goodwood... is this all a joke or does Newey really have some special era-inappropriate modifications on that Jag that the competitors wouldn't have access to, other than Button at the wheel? 

Racers will be racers. Years ago I stumbled across a garage where they had a McLaren Can Am car they ran in vintage races. They said it had some tweaks. I was surprised, assuming the cars would be run as they were back in the day. Nope! It sure sounded glorious.

[juicy sushi]

Yeah, I remember Tommy Kendall mentioning on a podcast recently that all of those classic late-60s/early-70s V8s may have been 450-500hp in era, but were mid-to-high 600s now when racing, and people have definitely kept tweaking set-ups and stuff.  Plus, many aren't even the real car, just crashable perfect replicas with the real machine safe in the garage...

[BerniesDad]

My favourite edition of the Revival TT race was in a downpour (less fun to spectate from a grass bank), where the Mini Coopers , who had qualified at the back in the dry the day before, came through the field to win, past 5-litre Galaxies et al, and did so whilst mostly sideways.

This was some years ago now. They could almost hold a revival.

[BoDarvelle]

Yeah, I remember Tommy Kendall mentioning on a podcast recently that all of those classic late-60s/early-70s V8s may have been 450-500hp in era, but were mid-to-high 600s now when racing, and people have definitely kept tweaking set-ups and stuff.  Plus, many aren't even the real car, just crashable perfect replicas with the real machine safe in the garage...

 

The front running vintage Trans Am cars are notorious for this. They revved to around 7500 back in the day and now they are spinning over 9000 so it's very noticeable just due to the sound.

[Dan333SP]

Unrelated but my earliest awareness of Goodwood (being in the States) was some Speedvision coverage of one of the events in I think the late 90s where they ran pre-wing 3.0L GP cars from '66-68. I remember seeing footage of a Lotus 49 actually being pushed pretty hard, and being shocked that such "old" cars were objectively still really fast and sounded amazing. This is long before youtube access to footage of just about every car lapping every track in existence, and it stuck with me. 

 

Speaking of YT, of course that memory is now captured on the site- 

 

Edited by Dan333SP, 23 September 2022 - 16:12.

[ExFlagMan]

Isn't in the DNA of racing machinery to continually evolve over its lifetime, especially when that lifetime has been extended many times longer than the original designers/builders ever imagined?

 

My carpenter father always claimed he had the same hammer all his working life - it was just that it had 30-40 new heads and a similar no of handles over that span of time!

[Dan333SP]

Isn't in the DNA of racing machinery to continually evolve over its lifetime, especially when that lifetime has been extended many times longer than the original designers/builders ever imagined?

 

My carpenter father always claimed he had the same hammer all his working life - it was just that it had 30-40 new heads and a similar no of handles over that span of time!

 

This is true and I don't really see an issue with it. In a sense, it's harder to keep a vintage racing car in an as-raced performance state than it is to make it faster simply because of technology with engines, tires, suspension, etc. Rebuilding a vintage racing engine probably always nets more power with the finer tolerances of modern replacement components, better engine controls, etc. and obviously modern tires, even those intended for vintage racing, will have more grip, so the chassis needs to be modified to handle the increased stresses of more grip and power and suddenly you're running a car that doesn't sound, look, or perform quite like it did 60 years ago. 

[milestone 11]

This is true and I don't really see an issue with it. In a sense, it's harder to keep a vintage racing car in an as-raced performance state than it is to make it faster simply because of technology with engines, tires, suspension, etc. Rebuilding a vintage racing engine probably always nets more power with the finer tolerances of modern replacement components, better engine controls, etc. and obviously modern tires, even those intended for vintage racing, will have more grip, so the chassis needs to be modified to handle the increased stresses of more grip and power and suddenly you're running a car that doesn't sound, look, or perform quite like it did 60 years ago.

There's no way that Galaxies should be competing against Minis. The increase in power since they raced in period is probably equal to the total output of the Mini. A nonsense.

[juicy sushi]

The issue I see with it is more philosophical.  Are you celebrating your past memories, or engaging in just normal racing with older cars?  If the former, it's a problem as it removes a lot of the variety and things cherished from the past.  If the latter, it's fine as you're just trying to go faster.  

 

I come down on the side of celebrating past memories.  If these guys want to go racing that much, they should just save money, buy something in GT3 or GT4, and go faster for less cash, in infinitely greater safety.