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#1 TradeMark

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 13:46

Over the last years it's becoming clear time and time again that there is a leak from the FIA. This year this happened again several times, most obious in Canada. The FIA releases a TD on Thursday to allow an extra floor stay, and Mercedes on Friday as only team already has this extra floor stay, the only option being that they already knew this TD was about to get announced.

 

Now this past week they have clearly had inside information on the budget cap situation. 

 

One of these situations gives them a sporting advantage, one of them is a massive violation of the financial secrecy that FIA should keep on confidential information from the teams. If there is a leak, there is no judging on what else is being leaked in terms of car specifics or financial specifics.

 

Interestingly enough this big topic has not been getting a lot of attention in the British based media, perhaps because the information is being leaked to a team with two British drivers. But FIA clearly should get to the bottom of this and if they find the mole and can find information being leaked, the teams that have been getting private information of other teams should be punished hard. In 2007/2008 McLaren got 100M fine and DSQed from the WCC for that, should Mercedes face similar penalties if confirmed?

 

How can teams trust the FIA if they find their info being leaked to competitors? Clearly this can give Mercedes a massive advantage getting inside info.



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#2 Astandahl

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 13:46

The FIA must be pushed out of F1.



#3 pRy

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 13:50

Over the last years it's becoming clear time and time again that there is a leak from the FIA. This year this happened again several times, most obious in Canada. The FIA releases a TD on Thursday to allow an extra floor stay, and Mercedes on Friday as only team already has this extra floor stay, the only option being that they already knew this TD was about to get announced.

 
With respect I think you're not considering that the teams are constantly talking to the FIA behind the scenes about a variety of different issues. And a lot of these conversations aren't made public. So for example, the stay clarification may have been communicated to the teams before it was communicated to the public. Quite often when a car part is questioned publicly we discover that the FIA have been checking said car part for a number of races already. That's just how the FIA and the teams opperate. It doesn't nessecarily have to be a leak or any form of conspiracy.

#4 TradeMark

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 13:50

The FIA must be pushed out of F1.

Well, they certainly need to have internal investigations and cleanups. 



#5 TradeMark

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 13:51

 
With respect I think you're not considering that the teams are constantly talking to the FIA behind the scenes about a variety of different issues. And a lot of these conversations aren't made public. So for example, the stay clarification may have been communicated to the teams before it was communicated to the public. Quite often when a car part is questioned publicly we discover that the FIA have been checking said car part for a number of races already. That's just how the FIA and the teams opperate. It doesn't nessecarily have to be a leak or any form of conspiracy.

Mercedes was the only one that had this second floor stay and all other teams expressed their surprise on how on earth Mercedes could have known this. 



#6 pRy

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 13:54

Mercedes was the only one that had this second floor stay and all other teams expressed their surprise on how on earth Mercedes could have known this.

 
Do you have a link to the other teams expressing surprise? I don't recall that but I may have missed some drama at the time.

#7 RA2

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 13:56

 
Do you have a link to the other teams expressing surprise? I don't recall that but I may have missed some drama at the time.

 

Why don't you search it yourself



#8 pRy

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 13:57

Why don't you search it yourself

 

I'm not the one claiming theres a leak at the FIA.



#9 JeePee

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 13:58

 
Do you have a link to the other teams expressing surprise? I don't recall that but I may have missed some drama at the time.

https://the-race.com...much-in-canada/



#10 TradeMark

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:01

 
Do you have a link to the other teams expressing surprise? I don't recall that but I may have missed some drama at the time.

Here's another one:

 

https://motorsport.n...tay,172257.html

 

Also Williams in this one.

 

And Ferrari expressing concerns about FIA impartiality:

 

https://www.autospor...][value]=272622



#11 SenorSjon

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:03

I find it odd the teams know about the financials of other teams this weekend. That should be confidential between teams and FIA.



#12 Bloggsworth

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:07

Over the last years it's becoming clear time and time again that there is a leak from the FIA. This year this happened again several times, most obious in Canada. The FIA releases a TD on Thursday to allow an extra floor stay, and Mercedes on Friday as only team already has this extra floor stay, the only option being that they already knew this TD was about to get announced.

 

Now this past week they have clearly had inside information on the budget cap situation. 

 

One of these situations gives them a sporting advantage, one of them is a massive violation of the financial secrecy that FIA should keep on confidential information from the teams. If there is a leak, there is no judging on what else is being leaked in terms of car specifics or financial specifics.

 

Interestingly enough this big topic has not been getting a lot of attention in the British based media, perhaps because the information is being leaked to a team with two British drivers. But FIA clearly should get to the bottom of this and if they find the mole and can find information being leaked, the teams that have been getting private information of other teams should be punished hard. In 2007/2008 McLaren got 100M fine and DSQed from the WCC for that, should Mercedes face similar penalties if confirmed?

 

How can teams trust the FIA if they find their info being leaked to competitors? Clearly this can give Mercedes a massive advantage getting inside info.

Twaddle, there's been plenty about it in the British media - Tuck your bias back in your pocket...



#13 RA2

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:08

I'm not the one claiming theres a leak at the FIA.

 

revisionism?



#14 TradeMark

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:10

Twaddle, there's been plenty about it in the British media - Tuck your bias back in your pocket...

Of course being from North London you are not at all biased in this ;)



#15 Burtros

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:16

So in a nutshell this thread is trying to say there is a leak from the FIA to Mercedes that’s well known about in the British media, who then say nothing about if for the benefit of Hamilton and GR63?

#16 New Britain

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:19

Over the last years it's becoming clear time and time again that there is a leak from the FIA. This year this happened again several times, most obious in Canada. The FIA releases a TD on Thursday to allow an extra floor stay, and Mercedes on Friday as only team already has this extra floor stay, the only option being that they already knew this TD was about to get announced.

 

Now this past week they have clearly had inside information on the budget cap situation. 

 

One of these situations gives them a sporting advantage, one of them is a massive violation of the financial secrecy that FIA should keep on confidential information from the teams. If there is a leak, there is no judging on what else is being leaked in terms of car specifics or financial specifics.

 

Interestingly enough this big topic has not been getting a lot of attention in the British based media, perhaps because the information is being leaked to a team with two British drivers. But FIA clearly should get to the bottom of this and if they find the mole and can find information being leaked, the teams that have been getting private information of other teams should be punished hard. In 2007/2008 McLaren got 100M fine and DSQed from the WCC for that, should Mercedes face similar penalties if confirmed?

 

How can teams trust the FIA if they find their info being leaked to competitors? Clearly this can give Mercedes a massive advantage getting inside info.

You are jumping to conclusions there. There is no suggestion that Mercedes (or any other team) has been getting confidential, inside information from an FIA insider. That is of course possible, but it is much more likely that the information that evolved into a so-called 'open secret' that Team A or Team B was over-spending either came from a former employee of the over-spending team or was the result of competitor teams looking at the number of new parts or new hires by Team A of Team B and concluding that 'there is no way they can afford to do that unless they are going over the cap.'

For multiple reasons, what Mosley did to McLaren in 2007/8 is not analogous.



#17 Myrvold

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:24

This was very Mercedes-directed, even though Ferrari and seemingly McLaren also is on to the budget cap and certain teams spending a lot of money.

When it comes to the floor-thing. There is a chance that this is something Mercedes had been working on, and also working on the FIA to get it allowed, so when it was, they had it ready.

 

We don't know half of the communication between the teams and FIA. Nor between the teams and Liberty, or even within and between the teams themselves.



#18 Pingu Pi

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:24

This is some strange deflection bias.


Edited by Pingu Pi, 03 October 2022 - 14:26.


#19 Clatter

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:26

It's quite amazing that they have managed to keep the details of the Ferrari PU enquiry and deal under wraps.

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#20 Myrvold

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:28

It's quite amazing that they have managed to keep the details of the Ferrari PU enquiry and deal under wraps.

 

Oooh. Maybe it is Ferrari that gets the leaks, and they share with others as they please. And the Mercedes-floor thing was an attempt to help them take points from Red Bull, which would help Ferrari!

You have solved it! :D



#21 bibliophagos

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:29

This is some strange deflection bias.

Nah, it's not deflection bias. It's a bit reactionary against the RB hate train that's racing through the forum.

 

I don't think there's any meat to this, tbh. The timing of the floor stays is a bit suspect, but I can't see a scandal coming out of any of this, let alone a BIG scandal as spygate in 2007.



#22 SenorSjon

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:32

The floor stays didn't affect the championship. The budget cap could be. 



#23 Myrvold

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:32

It's a bit reactionary against the RB hate train that's racing through the forum.

 

The same hate train that is against Mercedes, Hamilton, Wolff and also contains a wagon of anti-US, anti-UK, anti-Russian, anti-Whatever I like that gets a negative post. Not to mention the anti-Verstappen, anti-Horner and anti-Marko wagons.

 

All aboard the hate-forum-train! Choo Choo!

 

Or maybe, the antis and haters are spread quite nicely on a lot of topics, it's just way easier to react to whatever negativity about who or what one support.

 

I almost forgot the anti-Aston and anti-Stroll wagon! Luckily I remembered it, so those wagons aren't left behind!



#24 RedRabbit

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:32

Ralf Schumacher thinks the same...

https://www.gpblog.c...-bad-loser.html

And so did Bernie ...

https://www.planetf1...-fia-dangerous/

#25 RedRabbit

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:35

The floor stays didn't affect the championship. The budget cap could be.


You could take it further and the floor stays were the tip of ice berg. The information or influence might go both ways, and help Toto push through favourable regulations.

This isn't tin-foil hat stuff, it happens in F1 all the time.

#26 Mechanic44

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:36

“How can teams trust the FIA” 😂😂

That trust went out the window along time ago

#27 P123

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:36

The story about Red Bull first appeared in German media.  I'm not sure how the OP manages to link with British media and British drivers.  A giant leap into the abyss of their own biases and clear bristling xenophobia there...!  Red Bull are as much as British team as Mercedes are.

 

FIA leaks?  No idea.  The FIA rubbished the rumours and many in this forum seem certain it's all false.  So closer to gossip than fact based insider knowledge if so, and not based on a leak.  But there will always be a journo somewhere with the right contacts to get a scoop.

 

The FIA deal with Ferrari has though remained under wraps.



#28 Mechanic44

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:41

So basically this thread is saying let’s keep things between behind closed doors and get a secret handshake like Ferrari in 2019.

No one cares how information gets leaked, if teams are cheating or taking advantage then I’m all for it being spread and them called out on it.

Says a lot when people are more bothered about how information gets out instead of teams actually screwing everyone over for their gain outside the rules and regulations.

Edited by Mechanic44, 03 October 2022 - 14:41.


#29 Clatter

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:42

The story about Red Bull first appeared in German media. I'm not sure how the OP manages to link with British media and British drivers. A giant leap into the abyss of their own biases and clear bristling xenophobia there...! Red Bull are as much as British team as Mercedes are.

FIA leaks? No idea. The FIA rubbished the rumours and many in this forum seem certain it's all false. So closer to gossip than fact based insider knowledge if so, and not based on a leak. But there will always be a journo somewhere with the right contacts to get a scoop.

The FIA deal with Ferrari has though remained under wraps.


A journo getting a scoop often means someone has leaked info to them.

#30 Nathan

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:43

Maybe it's just the FIAs way of communicating?

 

What amazes me is after decades of wanting equality we get financial rules which one team is apparently disrespecting in year one, and the cry from a small crowd is to attack the leak and Mercedes rather than the cheat.  People are effed.


Edited by Nathan, 03 October 2022 - 14:45.


#31 bibliophagos

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:44

The same hate train that is against Mercedes, Hamilton, Wolff and also contains a wagon of anti-US, anti-UK, anti-Russian, anti-Whatever I like that gets a negative post. Not to mention the anti-Verstappen, anti-Horner and anti-Marko wagons.

 

All aboard the hate-forum-train! Choo Choo!

 

Or maybe, the antis and haters are spread quite nicely on a lot of topics, it's just way easier to react to whatever negativity about who or what one support.

 

I almost forgot the anti-Aston and anti-Stroll wagon! Luckily I remembered it, so those wagons aren't left behind!

You're obviously right, and I didn't mean RB was the only target. I do feel though, that especially since AD21, there's a significantly more anger addressed at RB (and all involved) than at other teams. I could be wrong though.



#32 Myrvold

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:47

I do feel though, that especially since AD21, there's a significantly more anger addressed at RB (and all involved) than at other teams. I could be wrong though.

 

There's more anger, that's for sure, and some are quite misplaced. Though, I do feel like it's quite evenly matched between the "fake champion" crowd and "tried to kill Verstappen" crowd.

Liberty is probably happy anyway, more buzz, more talk, more money. Screw integrity. 



#33 SenorSjon

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 14:51

So basically this thread is saying let’s keep things between behind closed doors and get a secret handshake like Ferrari in 2019.

No one cares how information gets leaked, if teams are cheating or taking advantage then I’m all for it being spread and them called out on it.

Says a lot when people are more bothered about how information gets out instead of teams actually screwing everyone over for their gain outside the rules and regulations.

 

I do care if an organization tasked with policing the team starts leaking information to other teams. The teams ask technical stuff all the time, also to check if something is within the rules. If FIA then leaks such an idea to another team, it is worse than SpyGate.



#34 ANF

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:03

With respect I think you're not considering that the teams are constantly talking to the FIA behind the scenes about a variety of different issues. And a lot of these conversations aren't made public. So for example, the stay clarification may have been communicated to the teams before it was communicated to the public. Quite often when a car part is questioned publicly we discover that the FIA have been checking said car part for a number of races already. That's just how the FIA and the teams opperate. It doesn't nessecarily have to be a leak or any form of conspiracy.

Exactly. And the budget cap news seems to have been broken by German and Italian media outlets. I suppose the FIA had already been in contact with the teams over the matter by then.



#35 Blundle

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:04

Oh, it's the British bias again. This nonsense is bordering on the xenophobic.

 

Columbo here has single-handedly deduced that there's a leak at the FIA who's working to benefit Mercedes so they and and their British drivers kicked out of F1. 



#36 William Hunt

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:15

It's indeed very obvious that there are leaks within the FIA, the budget cap scandal with Red Bull proves this: it was a leak from within the FIA. But think about this: if there wasn't a leak about this they might try to cover it up and no-one would know about it so good thing this was leaked. They probably still will get away with cheating I fear, big top teams always get away with it unlike teams like Tyrrell ('84)



#37 Squeed

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:19

Over the last years it's becoming clear time and time again that there is a leak from the FIA. This year this happened again several times, most obious in Canada. The FIA releases a TD on Thursday to allow an extra floor stay, and Mercedes on Friday as only team already has this extra floor stay, the only option being that they already knew this TD was about to get announced.

 

Now this past week they have clearly had inside information on the budget cap situation. 

 

One of these situations gives them a sporting advantage, one of them is a massive violation of the financial secrecy that FIA should keep on confidential information from the teams. If there is a leak, there is no judging on what else is being leaked in terms of car specifics or financial specifics.

 

Interestingly enough this big topic has not been getting a lot of attention in the British based media, perhaps because the information is being leaked to a team with two British drivers. But FIA clearly should get to the bottom of this and if they find the mole and can find information being leaked, the teams that have been getting private information of other teams should be punished hard. In 2007/2008 McLaren got 100M fine and DSQed from the WCC for that, should Mercedes face similar penalties if confirmed?

 

How can teams trust the FIA if they find their info being leaked to competitors? Clearly this can give Mercedes a massive advantage getting inside info.

 

There were pictures of Merc mechanics in Canada working over night to jerryrig the 2nd stay, but it didn’t stop F1 twitter from making a dark conspiracy out of it. 



#38 thefinalapex

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:20

Funny that the same people that are screaming murder at Red Bull without any proof find in this thread that Op is wrong, and that they are brushing aside a potential serious case in terms of someone maybe leaking confedential info from the FIA. 



#39 Myrvold

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:27

Not saying I said so... but, I said so.

 

The same hate train that is against Mercedes, Hamilton, Wolff and also contains a wagon of anti-US, anti-UK, anti-Russian, anti-Whatever I like that gets a negative post. Not to mention the anti-Verstappen, anti-Horner and anti-Marko wagons.

 

All aboard the hate-forum-train! Choo Choo!

 

Or maybe, the antis and haters are spread quite nicely on a lot of topics, it's just way easier to react to whatever negativity about who or what one support.

 

I almost forgot the anti-Aston and anti-Stroll wagon! Luckily I remembered it, so those wagons aren't left behind!

 

 

Oh, it's the British bias again. This nonsense is bordering on the xenophobic.

 

Columbo here has single-handedly deduced that there's a leak at the FIA who's working to benefit Mercedes so they and and their British drivers kicked out of F1. 



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#40 jonpollak

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:34

It’s becoming like 4chan in here.
Cut it out please.
Jp



#41 Gareth

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:35

Do we know there's been a leak from the FIA? Could just be team members chatting to each other? I imagine it's a small, incestuous, world and that there's tonnes of gossip doing the rounds.

 

Also not sure the "they leaked financial info" accusation is quite correct. Maybe someone's said they're over and which category of breach. That's a long way from handing over confidential financial info imo.



#42 Squeed

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:40

Funny that the same people that are screaming murder at Red Bull without any proof find in this thread that Op is wrong, and that they are brushing aside a potential serious case in terms of someone maybe leaking confedential info from the FIA. 

 

I don’t believe there’s a leak, I just don’t believe there are any secrets.  I believe that information flows freely to the team principles if they simply ask Liberty or FIA leadership.  The small group of people who comprise the team principles, Liberty management and FIA leadership are hanging around a race circuit and talking to each other 4 days/week.  It wouldn’t take much for a reporter to overhear conversation they were not meant to overhear once in awhile. 


Edited by Squeed, 03 October 2022 - 15:41.


#43 HeadFirst

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:42

The same hate train that is against Mercedes, Hamilton, Wolff and also contains a wagon of anti-US, anti-UK, anti-Russian, anti-Whatever I like that gets a negative post. Not to mention the anti-Verstappen, anti-Horner and anti-Marko wagons.

 

All aboard the hate-forum-train! Choo Choo!

 

Or maybe, the antis and haters are spread quite nicely on a lot of topics, it's just way easier to react to whatever negativity about who or what one support.

 

I almost forgot the anti-Aston and anti-Stroll wagon! Luckily I remembered it, so those wagons aren't left behind!

 

You forgot the anti-Latifi, anti-Lavaza, anti-self made millionaires wagons. Actually the anti-Stroll and anti-Latifi brigades have now joined forces and become an anti-Canadian JUMBO JET. :lol:



#44 Muppetmad

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:43

Right now, the claim that there has been an FIA leak is just as speculative as the claim that any team has breached the budget cap. If there is any evidence to support either claim, they should be investigated with the utmost seriousness. Until then, they're simply speculation.



#45 BleuMurmure

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:57

Right now, the claim that there has been an FIA leak is just as speculative as the claim that any team has breached the budget cap. If there is any evidence to support either claim, they should be investigated with the utmost seriousness. Until then, they're simply speculation.

If all the rumored teams say that they submitted below cap budgets to the FIA then it wouldn't come from the teams. Or unlikely. Especially for 2 teams.

Someone saw a draft report, or gossiped in the canteen about having to argue the meaning of any/all engineers with the bulls.

 

Maybe the leak came from a Geneva copy-shop ;)


Edited by BleuMurmure, 03 October 2022 - 15:59.


#46 mclarensmps

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:57

Funny that the same people that are screaming murder at Red Bull without any proof find in this thread that Op is wrong, and that they are brushing aside a potential serious case in terms of someone maybe leaking confedential info from the FIA. 

The same people who start threads like this are the ones that preach getting over Abu Dhabi 2021, so this is not really abnormal for this forum  :stoned:



#47 New Britain

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 15:59

Of all the people in this world to be criticising the FIA for the appearance of favouritism and dishonesty, I would not say that the Ferrari team boss and Bernie-effing-Ecclestone are exactly in a position to cast the first stone! :rolleyes:



#48 Mark1865

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 16:14

The conspiracy about Mercedes and the floor stay in Canada is my favourite one. How on earth could a team with so many skilled mechanics and millions of pounds of budget come up with a small metal rod so quickly? It’s a mystery.

#49 Ivanhoe

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 16:16

This is quickly moving into a my conspiracy is better than yours discussion. Not very interesting. 



#50 FLB

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Posted 03 October 2022 - 16:17

This is quickly moving into a my conspiracy is better than yours discussion. Not very interesting. 

Fully agreed.