86 replies to this topic

[OvDrone]

The whole World Rallycross series as it is at this moment.

It had something amazing going for it up to 2018 and then they decided to utterly gut themselves. 

[messy]

He's already a legend, but I don't think he'd ever have won a MotoGP title going against peak Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Marquez and a still awesome Rossi, then Quartararo. I think he'd be in the same zone as Crutchlow, but more successful in terms of wins and getting in the way ot title contenders.

I agree. I think Simoncelli was a very talented ‘second tier’ rider and I don’t see him getting into a position to win a title. Maybe he’d have found his way onto a factory Ducati rather than Cal in 2014, or a good candidate for Suzuki but there was never any potential opening at Honda. I think he’d have been sniping for wins though. He was already almost at that point in 2011. I think he was probably better than Cal. That era, with Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Rossi, Marquez and (pre 2013) Stoner was a very hard one to be any more than an occasional thorn in the side of the “aliens”

[Risil]

The whole World Rallycross series as it is at this moment.

It had something amazing going for it up to 2018 and then they decided to utterly gut themselves.

What happened? I never really followed World RX.

[Touchdown]

I agree. I think Simoncelli was a very talented ‘second tier’ rider and I don’t see him getting into a position to win a title. Maybe he’d have found his way onto a factory Ducati rather than Cal in 2014, or a good candidate for Suzuki but there was never any potential opening at Honda. I think he’d have been sniping for wins though. He was already almost at that point in 2011. I think he was probably better than Cal. That era, with Lorenzo, Pedrosa, Rossi, Marquez and (pre 2013) Stoner was a very hard one to be any more than an occasional thorn in the side of the “aliens”

You'd wonder how he would have done on the Ducati between 2017 and 2019 - could he have done enough in 2017?

 

Really comes down to was he any better than Dovi or not, as an Italian there's a very good chance he could have been on that bike, particularly with no room at the Repsol Honda inn.

[Atreiu]

Also, wasn't Super Sic (awesome nickname) very tall and heavier than average? Petruccit suffered a lot because his height and size put him on the very limits of the operational room of the spec tyres. I think he might have been on the same boat.

 

Anyhow, real legend. Well worth the mention. RIP.

[OvDrone]

What happened? I never really followed World RX.

Since the new era with fia status Championship began, the events had an amazing coverage on Youtube hitting some phenomenal views and pro-level content that at the time put F1 to shame beyond belief. This happened up until 2018 when we had superstars like Loeb. Ekstrom, Solberg, Kristofferson, Hansen, Bakkerud and Ken Block battling it out in diverse cars in a robust calendar to sold out stands.

Then in 2019 they pulled the plug on Youtube, started doing p**s-level short 2 minute 'highlights' of the action on the weekend, factories pulled their sponsorships, drivers left, calendar sunk, Kristofferson left for WTCR and the series got moved to phantom European tv channels that no one on this Earth could possibly find.

Since then their downward spiral continues unabated even if they moved the series into an all-electric direction but to abysmal engagement.

You can barely find any news on the series, the highlights are a joke and the calendar is ridiculous. It's just the Kristofferson show ( kudos to him though, he's a legend ) and it's amateur hour at best.

Just look at the lauch of the NEW ERA:



Pfeh - Imagine, this is a 'World Championship'... I saw a better crowd at an impromptu street-side kids puppet-show on a Monday afternoon.



Also the highlights and the absolute state of their Youtube channel.

2022:





vs 2018:





It used to be magnificent...

[StraightEdge]

Wade Cunningham and Alex Lloyd. You thought both of those drivers who were driving to victory lane multiple times in Indy Lights would catch them a full time ride for years. Wade only got total of five (six if you want to count ill-fated Vegas race). Lloyd got short end of a stick with Chip Ganassi. Was to have a full time ride then Dario Franchitti returned to Indycar. He got paid to sit home for almost the entire season with his only run with Ganassi at Indy. He would get his only full time ride next season with Dale Coyne.

[Chmielinski]

Since the new era with fia status Championship began, the events had an amazing coverage on Youtube hitting some phenomenal views and pro-level content that at the time put F1 to shame beyond belief. This happened up until 2018 when we had superstars like Loeb. Ekstrom, Solberg, Kristofferson, Hansen, Bakkerud and Ken Block battling it out in diverse cars in a robust calendar to sold out stands.

Then in 2019 they pulled the plug on Youtube, started doing p**s-level short 2 minute 'highlights' of the action on the weekend, factories pulled their sponsorships, drivers left, calendar sunk, Kristofferson left for WTCR and the series got moved to phantom European tv channels that no one on this Earth could possibly find.

Since then their downward spiral continues unabated even if they moved the series into an all-electric direction but to abysmal engagement.

You can barely find any news on the series, the highlights are a joke and the calendar is ridiculous. It's just the Kristofferson show ( kudos to him though, he's a legend ) and it's amateur hour at best.

Just look at the lauch of the NEW ERA:

Pfeh - Imagine, this is a 'World Championship'... I saw a better crowd at an impromptu street-side kids puppet-show on a Monday afternoon.

Also the highlights and the absolute state of their Youtube channel.

2022:

vs 2018:

It used to be magnificent...

 

The big thing was that after 2018 all 4 factories pulled the plug. The funding was gone. In 2019 it was still ok, I guess those factories sold some of their stuff for cheap, but each year after that it became worse and worse. The big name drivers left and the switch to electric was half-assed.

Edited by Chmielinski, 13 October 2022 - 07:53.

[Ragingjamaican]

The World Rallycross series was super entertaining!

[WonderWoman61]

What about Darren Manning?

[John B]

I think so. We never saw him with the kind of equipment his talent deserved, and he'd surely have earned a Formula One test if things went well with Penske in 2000-2001. It's bad enough that he never raced at the Indy 500.

My memory is not 100% secure but I think Greg could've won something like 3 of his first 6 CART races if he hadn't been let down by mechanical failures.

Especially with Penske shifting to the IRL, as ovals were Moore's strength during his brief time in CART. Given Castroneves success in his place he certainly could have been a multiple Indy winner.

[WonderWoman61]

Keith Odor in touring cars. If it hadn't been for that crash at AVUS in 1995, it may well have been him fighting for the 1998/1999 BTCC titles with Nissan.

Edited by WonderWoman61, 15 October 2022 - 09:39.

[juicy sushi]

In keeping with Anthony Gobert’s mention, I think John Hopkins was similar. A huge talent who sadly never reached his potential due to personal issues.

[RedRabbit]

Ben Spies - crushed it in WSBK, moved to MotoGP at a time when "rookies" were not allowed straight into a factory team, and never really amounted to much. Can't even remember if he actually won a race at all in MotoGP.

[messy]

He won once, at Assen I think. With Spies injury obviously played a big part, but there were questions about his commitment too. I remember reading that he (and his mum) would travel around separately, race and go back to the hotel as early as possible, and he wasn’t really interested in going above and beyond on technical stuff, debriefing, testing, people viewed his approach and the influence of his mum as a bit odd. It worked in AMA but came up short in MotoGP.

I remember watching him avidly in the 2009 WSB though and the guy was amazing. He could just disappear into the distance while all the rest of them battled behind. He could look on a different level to everyone else. He made some rookie mistakes which kept the championship battle with Haga reasonably close but man he could ride that bike in ways the others couldn’t. His natural talent was enormous.

Edited by messy, 15 October 2022 - 07:25.

[HeadFirst]

He won once, at Assen I think. With Spies injury obviously played a big part, but there were questions about his commitment too. I remember reading that he (and his mum) would travel around separately, race and go back to the hotel as early as possible, and he wasn’t really interested in going above and beyond on technical stuff, debriefing, testing, people viewed his approach and the influence of his mum as a bit odd. It worked in AMA but came up short in MotoGP.

I remember watching him avidly in the 2009 WSB though and the guy was amazing. He could just disappear into the distance while all the rest of them battled behind. He could look on a different level to everyone else. He made some rookie mistakes which kept the championship battle with Haga reasonably close but man he could ride that bike in ways the others couldn’t. His natural talent was enormous.

 

Nitro Nori ...... I loved watching that guy race. Ben ..... with all that talent, remains a mystery to me.

[Atreiu]

Ben Spies - crushed it in WSBK, moved to MotoGP at a time when "rookies" were not allowed straight into a factory team, and never really amounted to much. Can't even remember if he actually won a race at all in MotoGP.

He won Assen 2011.

MotoGP was in the dumps then. Lots of talent but horrible bikes/formula which gave it its worse racing. The 800 CCs were a mistake. Then he got injured and that was it.

[red stick]

Marco Andretti.

The talent was occasionally clear--finishing second at Indy early on, getting an Indy 500 pole late in his career, and having teammates winning races showed equipment need not be an issue.  The mental side evidently let him down--putting poor performances behind you and moving on is part of the makeup of successful racers.

[ensign14]

I dunno about Marco, he got phenomenally lucky with his final pitstop as Giaffone crashed while he was in pit lane, so saved a lap.  And then put in the outright worst racing lap anyone in history has ever put in to throw the race away, his final lap was at something like 210mph.  I got the impression Marco only raced because it was expected, not because he wanted to or because he enjoyed it.

[juicy sushi]

Nitro Nori ...... I loved watching that guy race. Ben ..... with all that talent, remains a mystery to me.

He was very private.  Totally focused on winning at whatever the cost, after half a decade of being Mat Mladin's teammate in AMA Superbike where he was basically psychologically abused by Mladin until Spies was able to turn the tables.  After the crash, his shoulder was never the same and he couldn't physically move the bike the way he needed, so he quit because he was no longer able to compete at the level he felt approriate.

 

Haga was another one I almost included here.  He never won a title, but came close a few times.  If he partied less and focused more, I think he'd probably have gotten at least one.  But a Noriyuki Haga who partied less would not have been the same rider.

[red stick]

Except Marco's still racing, has enjoyed the SRX exhibition series, shown well on dirt tracks, and won the last championship.  If he didn't enjoy it, at some level, he could be doing anything else.

 

Edited by red stick, 16 October 2022 - 17:23.

[juicy sushi]

I dunno about Marco, he got phenomenally lucky with his final pitstop as Giaffone crashed while he was in pit lane, so saved a lap.  And then put in the outright worst racing lap anyone in history has ever put in to throw the race away, his final lap was at something like 210mph.  I got the impression Marco only raced because it was expected, not because he wanted to or because he enjoyed it.

There are hints that being in his father's team, and having that dynamic on top of being a racing driver did not help him.  The weight of family legacy definitely came down very hard on him.

[ensign14]

Except Marco's still racing, has enjoyed the SRX exhibition series,

I consider myself pretty well informed on motorsport and had never heard of that particular series.  Had to google it and it does not come up.  First hit is about a museum of sex objects in Time Out.  Either my search history is far more salacious than I had anticipated, or that series is extreeeeeeeeeeeeemely low key.

[red stick]

It's why Paul Tracy is no longer on NBC.  

 

https://www.srxracing.com/

 

https://www.facebook...racingofficial/

[Disgrace]

Rob Wickens...

 

Including his career before his devastating crash. I think he had the pedigree to reach F1, but never had the budget nor connections.

[Jim Thurman]

I consider myself pretty well informed on motorsport and had never heard of that particular series.  Had to google it and it does not come up.  First hit is about a museum of sex objects in Time Out.  Either my search history is far more salacious than I had anticipated, or that series is extreeeeeeeeeeeeemely low key.

SRX has been mentioned multiple times on this forum   At least in the Indycar threads. 

[Atreiu]

Here's one, Hermann Tilke himself.

 

He was granted so many opportunities to help build exceptional circuits with massive budgets, yet it all amounts to ****. And it cannot be blamed on safety regulations. Silverstone was basically rebuilt from scratch and it's miles ahead of anything he has done.

[milestone 11]

Anyway, someone else that came to mind when daydreaming whilst picking up another 20kg of olives today.
Mike Thackwell

[WonderWoman61]

What about Tom Chilton in touring car racing? He was seen as one of the next big things when he made his BTCC debut in 2002 at the age of 17. Granted he's become an Independents' Champion on the British and World stages, but other than that, well more money than talent seems to spring to mind.

[Nathan]

In that respect, the same could also be said for Gonzalo Rodriguez if he'd made it through the Corkscrew at Laguna Seca.

 

I don't remember Gonzalo being considered a future star.  Being the whole topic has a subjective part such speculation seems par for the course?

[Flasheart]

Rossi going to Ducati could also be seen as a waste of potential, the bike was garbage during his two seasons and he was still a front runner at that time, maybe he wouldn't have beaten Stoner in 2011 if he were still on the Yamaha but he would have won races both years and could have taken the 2012 title.

He only has himself to blame for that. Went to Ducati because he thought he could get more out of it than Stoner. First time he rode it, he couldn’t believe what Stoner did…. Pure ego move.

[Flasheart]

Marco Simoncelli is missed. He'd be retiring about now after several championships, as a legend of the sport.

Sorry, but in my opinion he was dangerous. It’s incredibly sad what happened, but the way he behaved on track, something like that was a definite possibility. Either to himself, or someone else. One thing I don’t doubt was his speed, especially given his size disadvantage.

[William Hunt]

Anyway, someone else that came to mind when daydreaming whilst picking up another 20kg of olives today.
Mike Thackwell

 

Well he indeed could be in the waste of potential in other motorsports too but primarily belongs in the waste of potential in F1 list I guess

[WonderWoman61]

I don't remember Gonzalo being considered a future star.  Being the whole topic has a subjective part such speculation seems par for the course?

Well, future star or not, he wasn't that bad a racing driver. Scoring a point on your CART debut in one of the the worst cars Roger Penske's team ever produced if not their worst ever is hardly something to sneeze at.

[messy]

Rodriguez was pretty highly rated in F3000 and the opportunity was there for a good CART career, but whether it would have played out that way is kinda anybody's guess. Greg Moore and Tony Renna were incredibly sad partly because they'd both just signed their 'ticket to the big time' contracts when they died - Moore to Penske (for what turned out to be their next glory era) and Renna to Ganassi. I can't recall whether Gonzalo had a contract for 2000. But he was making those first steps.

[WonderWoman61]

Rodriguez was pretty highly rated in F3000 and the opportunity was there for a good CART career, but whether it would have played out that way is kinda anybody's guess. Greg Moore and Tony Renna were incredibly sad partly because they'd both just signed their 'ticket to the big time' contracts when they died - Moore to Penske (for what turned out to be their next glory era) and Renna to Ganassi. I can't recall whether Gonzalo had a contract for 2000. But he was making those first steps.

It's said that a number of F1 and CART teams were interested in Gonzalo. - https://www.historic...m?driverID=2365

[WonderWoman61]

Rodriguez was pretty highly rated in F3000 and the opportunity was there for a good CART career, but whether it would have played out that way is kinda anybody's guess. Greg Moore and Tony Renna were incredibly sad partly because they'd both just signed their 'ticket to the big time' contracts when they died - Moore to Penske (for what turned out to be their next glory era) and Renna to Ganassi. I can't recall whether Gonzalo had a contract for 2000. But he was making those first steps.

Infact, Gonzalo could have been at Minardi in 1999. - https://www.unracedf...inardi-drivers/

Edited by WonderWoman61, 20 October 2022 - 22:14.