1287 replies to this topic

[juicy sushi]

We’ll never know.

[Ben1445]

His comments on IndyCar are also interesting. He was given a test with Andretti last year and thinks there’s an opportunity there if he wanted it, but simply has no plans to chase it.

[Ben1445]

Little bit light on detail but there’s some info here on how London ExCeL is planning for a long term future hosting the London ePrix.

https://the-race.com...rmula-e-future/

“There are opportunities as well for us to extend the track. Those conversations are part of future conversations with Gen4, which would help evolve the race and futureproof for a faster car.”

In addition to the possibility of an extension to the circuit there will be more scope to use the Royal Victoria waterfront area of the facility.

“One of the interesting things is that because of the configuration of the track, the way ‘Phase 3’ is going to be built, you’re going to have instant access to the water as well,” said Norman.

[Ben1445]

The thing is, I do still see potential in the venue if they’re serious about building a world class racing track into their facility.

Entirely possible that they can only really do that with a long term contract and strong year-on-year ticket sales to make a strong case case for the necessary investments, and from the sounds of it they’re well on their way to achieving both of those.

But the fact for me remains that there’s still quite a chasm between today’s circuit which has been squeezed into a site that was never designed to host a motor race and a hypothetical fully developed race track building on the indoor/outdoor exhibition centre concept. I think there needs to be significant structural and landscaping work to get there.

[Disgrace]

I've always thought the layout gets too much criticism. They've resolved the biggest problem already, which was the unnecessary hairpins. When the drivers get out of their cars worn out, that for me is a good sign.

[thegamer23]

TheRace rankings of the Season 9 drivers, from Worst to Best.

 

https://the-race.com...-worst-to-best/

 

Do you agree, if not what would be your list?

Edited by thegamer23, 08 August 2023 - 17:05.

[Disgrace]

Merhi should be ahead of Lotterer. Even where I was trackside in London, Andre was lifting way earlier than anybody else. He gave up.

[shawnybantzy]

Yeah it just seemed like he was waiting for the season to be over '99-Hill style.

Full focus on prototypes will put him back to his mojo - Merhi will probably go back to Super GT, though who knows when the A1GP revival will come

[thegamer23]

Absolutely fascinating

 

[RSRally]

The GenBeta looks genuinely really quick, i think it could be a game changer for fan interest in the series.

Of course in a racing season situation the extra power and 4wd would probably only be for qualy and attack mode, and the tyres would have to be made to last a race and not just a short record attempt but even so i think it will be a big step for FE.

And i guess they’ll need to tie down the exact specs for the second half of the Gen3 cycle pretty soon as teams will want to start development ahead of testing from (spring?) 2024 onwards..

[Disgrace]

Every weekend should be a double header, IMO. So how about a new take on the sprint/feature race format? A Saturday sprint in which the cars are unleashed, interrupted with fast charging pit stops, then a Sunday feature en style traditionnel requiring regen to get to the end. Qualifying for each so no reverse grids required.

[juicy sushi]

Every weekend should be a double header, IMO. So how about a new take on the sprint/feature race format? A Saturday sprint in which the cars are unleashed, interrupted with fast charging pit stops, then a Sunday feature en style traditionnel requiring regen to get to the end. Qualifying for each so no reverse grids required.

I don’t mind the idea, especially as it means more on-track action, which the series desperately needs since they have no support series.

[Ben1445]

I reckon I could get behind that, probably a little more so than the current double header format of simply repeating the previous day with minor differences in laps or attack mode allocation

[Disgrace]

I reckon I could get behind that, probably a little more so than the current double header format of simply repeating the previous day with minor differences in laps or attack mode allocation

 

Yep, exactly. Although this hypothetical "sprint" would be about the same length as the feature, as it would be silly to have a full day of qualifying and build-up for about 20 minutes of action. This car already has the potential to showcase it all.

[thegamer23]

Flexible race format like those are already expected for the Gen 4 era, but who knows, might even be introduced earlier!
 

https://the-race.com...s-for-gen4-era/

[Nigel Beresford]

My Grades For Each Team - Season 9


DS Penske - B
Despite the powertrain change, the traits of the shambolic Dragon Penske of old still remain. While the package in itself was decent, they never really had the peaks that Jaguar, Porsche and Andretti mustered, and the whole DQ saga in Portland was a wild 'un in itself. Vergne did a fine job, while Stoffel was quite anonymous in comparison to him : hopefully he can bounce back for S10. Not much to write for this team, in all honesty.

 

I realise I'm probably a day late and a dollar short on responding but, y'know, I've been pretty busy.

 

I think the B grade for us is fair enough, though I struggle to see how McLaren rate the same. They, the reigning champions, achieved one pole position, no wins and only beat Nio, Mahindra and ABT Cupra in the championship. Similar to us and Porsche, their season pretty much flatlined after Jakarta whereas some other teams seasons really took off.  Jakarta was a real point of inflexion for reasons I am not going to go into here. I simply don't think they were as good as all that, and that is not because I have anything at all against McLaren. If you knew anything at all about me and my family you would know nothing could be farther from the truth.

 

With all due respect I disagree strongly with the use of the term "shambolic" for us, notwithstanding the fact that I am in the fishbowl and cannot see out. To me it's a lazy, inaccurate assessment not substantiated with any facts. DS PENSKE is fundamentally very different from the old Dragon team. In the final analysis we won a race with one of the drives of the season (and don't make the mistake of thinking it was all down to JEV - he drove brilliantly plus the team created the tools he was using and coached him all the way), got a pole and finished best of the rest in the team championship behind the teams that, frankly, deserved to beat us. Our cars were always out on time and ready for every session. We had no race retirements due to a car failure. Stoffel was maliciously put into the wall in Berlin 1 by the idiot Ticktum and  we voluntarily retired JEV to save the car and tyres in London 1 when it seemed hopeless to continue, which in retrospect was probably an error. In Rome 1 the mechanics repaired significant suspension damage and got both cars back out in time for the restart. Nothing shambolic about any of that. 

 

This Gen 3 car is so difficult to optimise, in terms of getting the best out of the tyres and the braking systems, that there is no shame in getting it wrong sometimes - everyone did at some point in the year. We certainly were not able to get it right for Stoffel, who is pure class and displays all the true qualities you would expect of a champion. . Nobody was consistently competitive week in week out, and as far as I recall no team had both cars at the front all the time. In the end the right drivers and teams won the respective championships. Do we need to be more competitive next season? Of course we do. Did we get the best out of what we had? Not always, by a long chalk, but JEV beat four of the guys who had the advantage of a Porsche or Jag powertrain, plus all of the other guys with the same Stellantis powertrain. In some ways at some times we were not as good as our sister team - they outperformed us in the second half of the year.   

 

As for Portland, we made a mistake. I am not going to discuss it here or for a couple of years, and we were most certainly in the wrong, but it was mishandled, misrepresented, misundertood and amplified in many many ways. All parties on all sides involved learned a lot from the episode. It was embarrassing, devastating and profoundly upsetting but it's in the past.

 

Thanks

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 15 August 2023 - 11:26.

[B Squared]

Nigel, I just want to thank you for taking the time to be a part of the Autosport forums. It is always good to read your insights and opinions on so many subjects within our sport that you know so well. Thank you sir.

[Nigel Beresford]

Thanks Brian. I like the FE discussions on this forum because there seems to be intelligent comment and none of the childish tribalism or dullardry which is blighting so much debate on racing these days.

Edited by Nigel Beresford, 15 August 2023 - 14:12.

[shawnybantzy]

I realise I'm probably a day late and a dollar short on responding but, y'know, I've been pretty busy.

I think the B grade for us is fair enough, though I struggle to see how McLaren rate the same. They, the reigning champions, achieved one pole position, no wins and only beat Nio, Mahindra and ABT Cupra in the championship. Similar to us and Porsche, their season pretty much flatlined after Jakarta whereas some other teams seasons really took off. Jakarta was a real point of inflexion for reasons I am not going to go into here. I simply don't think they were as good as all that, and that is not because I have anything at all against McLaren. If you knew anything at all about me and my family you would know nothing could be farther from the truth.

With all due respect I disagree strongly with the use of the term "shambolic" for us, notwithstanding the fact that I am in the fishbowl and cannot see out. To me it's a lazy, inaccurate assessment not substantiated with any facts. DS PENSKE is fundamentally very different from the old Dragon team. In the final analysis we won a race with one of the drives of the season (and don't make the mistake of thinking it was all down to JEV - he drove brilliantly plus the team created the tools he was using and coached him all the way), got a pole and finished best of the rest in the team championship behind the teams that, frankly, deserved to beat us. Our cars were always out on time and ready for every session. We had no race retirements due to a car failure. Stoffel was maliciously put into the wall in Berlin 1 by the idiot Ticktum and we voluntarily retired JEV to save the car and tyres in London 1 when it seemed hopeless to continue, which in retrospect was probably an error. In Rome 1 the mechanics repaired significant suspension damage and got both cars back out in time for the restart. Nothing shambolic about any of that.

This Gen 3 car is so difficult to optimise, in terms of getting the best out of the tyres and the braking systems, that there is no shame in getting it wrong sometimes - everyone did at some point in the year. We certainly were not able to get it right for Stoffel, who is pure class and displays all the true qualities you would expect of a champion. . Nobody was consistently competitive week in week out, and as far as I recall no team had both cars at the front all the time. In the end the right drivers and teams won the respective championships. Do we need to be more competitive next season? Of course we do. Did we get the best out of what we had? Not always, by a long chalk, but JEV beat four of the guys who had the advantage of a Porsche or Jag powertrain, plus all of the other guys with the same Stellantis powertrain. In some ways at some times we were not as good as our sister team - they outperformed us in the second half of the year.

As for Portland, we made a mistake. I am not going to discuss it here or for a couple of years, and we were most certainly in the wrong, but it was mishandled, misrepresented, misundertood and amplified in many many ways. All parties on all sides involved learned a lot from the episode. It was embarrassing, devastating and profoundly upsetting but it's in the past.

Thanks

Ah well. Sorry Nigel, my apologies if I came across as far too rash on that front. (takes hat off)

As I pointed out, the foundation is there, the base DS package is decent nonetheless and Stoffel should be able to rebound and take the fight along with JEV next year.

[Nigel Beresford]

Not a problem at all. Thanks for your initial comment and your message. It’s important and interesting for the team to understand how it is viewed externally. As I say, I enjoy the discussions in this forum and as I explained I didn’t recognise the “shambolic” aspect (and I explained why) but I would genuinely welcome examples for which I can agree or explain. One thing that was not handled well was the team’s response to the Portland affair but I am not going to go into that.

Whether or not we can close the gap in spite of the homologation being locked-in remains to be seen, of course. Our partners at Stellantis understand the challenge we all face. It is not all about the powertrain though. Understanding the tyres is always key and a lot of that falls on the team. One thing about which i have no reservations is our drivers.

[SpeedRacer`]

Thanks for the insight Nigel. I'm interested in why there was that "swing" mid-season for McLaren, but appreciate you can't go into reasons here.

 

I thought DS Penske did maximise the car they had. Maybe the problem was with pre-season expectations, as I seem to remember hearing they were the favorites before a wheel was turned in Mexico (unlike Macca with their Nissan PT).

[Nigel Beresford]

Yes I’d agree with the last sentence. In the end we didn’t match the reasonable expectation of a “top team” (because 80% of the Techeetah team transitioned to Penske) with two champion drivers and (on the basis of the running at Valencia) a very strong package. As I say, there are areas we definitely did not get a handle on. Obviously that is where are focusing our efforts for next season

[Ben1445]

Interview podcast here on The Money Lap podcast by NASCAR drivers Parker Kligerman and Landon Cassill with FE's new CEO Jeff Dodds. 

 

[juicy sushi]

Now that's a heck of an interesting cross-over.  

[Ben1445]

Some interesting points for me: 

• Wants to do more with the GenBeta car, unlocking more performance (powertrain/slicks) and throwing it into other stunts/lap-records like the indoor speed record to show what could be achieved. I guess it would help the technical team understand how the limits of performance can be reached for future rulesets/formats at the same time as providing exposure and 'content' for the series to gain more attention (which is his primary goal as incoming CEO). 
• Is more interested in chasing tracks/venues which show what an EV car is best at doing and most exciting to watch doing than he is than chasing outright speed/pace, also doesn't want to raise the cost caps and increase financial stress on the teams without a good reason. I suppose as revenues rise you might have a choice between having teams paying more to open up development of the battery and letting teams pay more to drivers to attract the best driving talent they can ... you would have to choose which one is going to impress the fans the most... 
• Does expect to be adding more traditional/permanent tracks as the cars inevitably get faster for more of a hybrid approach to the calendar. Says Portland is ideal example of what they want given the urban proximity and public transport links. 

Edited by Ben1445, 18 August 2023 - 13:57.

[juicy sushi]

All of that makes sense, especially your first point, since you were noting the contrast between the 2022 Goodwood debuts of the Gen3 car and the McMurtry Speirling.  A GenBeta demo car is a good way to get the EVO and Gen4 stuff ready while also stealing some of that Speirling attention.

[thegamer23]

Season 9 Review

 

 

 

Not too long to wait till the Season 10's October Pre-Season testing of Valencia, and we still have a spicy Silly Season to live!

Edited by thegamer23, 19 August 2023 - 11:30.

[RSRally]

More on Gen3Evo:

https://the-race.com...la-es-gen3-car/

[thegamer23]

Fascinating.

 

“develop the spectacle that you get from the pure pace of the cars, not only from the fighting and the position changes and everything”.

 

Enabling the front-motor for quali, start of the race and attack modes sounds like a very cool idea too, and there's the Fast Charge aspect still to be explored.

By "increasing the car's surface area for sponsor" bit, i'm pretty sure we're going to see a Shark Fin, similar to the Gen 2 Evo concept.

Exciting times ahead!

Edited by thegamer23, 20 August 2023 - 19:15.

[RSRally]

I hope for a GenBeta style front wing too, that makes the whole thing look less weird.

They're gonna need the fast charge stops if the front power train will draw power too, at certain circuits at least.

[juicy sushi]

Fascinating.

 

“develop the spectacle that you get from the pure pace of the cars, not only from the fighting and the position changes and everything”.

 

Enabling the front-motor for quali, start of the race and attack modes sounds like a very cool idea too, and there's the Fast Charge aspect still to be explored.

By "increasing the car's surface area for sponsor" bit, i'm pretty sure we're going to see a Shark Fin, similar to the Gen 2 Evo concept.

Exciting times ahead!

Uh, another bloody stupid shark fin.  For all the demands of Andretti for more surface area, there was enough blank space on their car this year that frankly, they don't need more bodywork, they need to fill up what they already have.  I really don't want them to ruin the aesthetics with even more functionless bodywork that adds drag and visual mass.

[MattK9]

Uh, another bloody stupid shark fin. For all the demands of Andretti for more surface area, there was enough blank space on their car this year that frankly, they don't need more bodywork, they need to fill up what they already have. I really don't want them to ruin the aesthetics with even more functionless bodywork that adds drag and visual mass.

I have a hot take.

I like shark fins!

*runs*

[eab]

Well of course you have, the soup is supposed to be taken hot.

[thegamer23]

 

Edited by thegamer23, 29 August 2023 - 09:40.

[thegamer23]

BIG NEWS!

Fast Charging gets green light for next season!       

https://the-race.com...24-green-light/

 

 

This could really change the dynamic of the races, adding a big strategic element to the competition.

Also, it's something very road relevant, and the development of this technology could really change the future of E.V automotive.

 

Still not clear if it's gonna be used all races or in selected races: i'd vote for the second option, so we can have both "sprint" races and some more "strategic", maybe longer events.
 

 

Season 10 thread coming in a week or two!    

 

Edited by thegamer23, 29 August 2023 - 12:58.

[Ben1445]

That is big news.

I understand people’s concerns about potentially negatively affecting the racing, and to a slightly lesser extent the perception that it might be seen as a backwards step.

Sounds like they’re simulating a variety of formats with it to ensure it comes across well to the audience. In which case, what if we think through here what those impacts might be and what might work best?

[Muppetmad]

It's exactly what's needed: a driver stuck in the "peloton", who thinks they can go quicker while still keeping on top of their energy, can pit and make use of the clean air to try to undercut the pack. This will reward good strategy and good energy management.

Edited by Muppetmad, 29 August 2023 - 13:05.

[Ben1445]

My first question is probably if it would be markedly different from a Gen1 era race in terms of strategy. For much of that era there was a minimum 60 second pitstop time for safety purposes to allow for a driver swap. That sounds similar to 30 second charges, only instead of hopping out of one car and into another the team plugs in a fast charger to whack power it at rates which sounded like a fairy tale a decade ago.

Biggest memories of the Gen1 era which wasn’t really carried into Gen2 for me was that drivers could choose to some extent whether to push in the first stint or the second. I think that gave way to Gen2/Gen3 racing starting out slow and steady and the building in urgency towards the end of the race.

I think a major detail to confirm would be whether teams have any say in how long to charge/how much to charge up by. I think the possibility of short-charging to gain track position but then having to save more in a stint could lead to interesting outcomes.