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A Message From the RC Hosts Regarding the State of the Forum


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#1 Afterburner

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Posted 26 October 2022 - 20:45

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As an open note to all the membership here, generally, the mods have become concerned with the quality of discussion in Racing Comments.

The USGP race thread this past weekend presents an example of the issues to which we're referring: by most measures, we were served an excellent race, with lots of storylines up and down the grid throughout, and yet most of our membership posting in the thread seemed to be unhappy with one another. The thread was not a very pleasant read for such an exciting race–an exciting race being a rarity over much of the last decade.

To us, the problem appears to be that much of the membership has become deeply invested in backing their drivers or teams, in some cases to such an extreme that the only posts made are ones which serve to inflate the perceived status of a favourite or denigrate the status of others. Those of us who have been here for years know that this has always been part and parcel of posting here to some degree, but subjectively, the long-termers among us also feel that there is a higher number of these types of posts than ever before, and they are frequently vitriolic, intolerant, and almost paranoid to a level which goes beyond playfulness and enters a realm in which any goodwill for others is seemingly nonexistent.

This is not sustainable for our community.

The cause of this partisanship is irrelevant. What concerns us is that it changes. Above all, it's important that everyone here remember that membership to this forum is a privilege. This means that you should see your fellow members as precisely that first and foremost: fellows. On this board, you are all Atlas Autosport members first, regardless of your personal and professional backgrounds or allegiance to drivers and teams. It seems that too frequently, this is forgotten, as being right, or spreading the truth, or whichever favourite justification used for such behaviour more and more often supersedes any obligation to civility. In this sense, you might agree that Racing Comments is a reflection of the broader world in current times. In another sense, as moderators, we are not required to tolerate this, whatever the board rules say.

If you are incapable of behaving in a manner consistent with the respect for your fellow posters that being an Atlas Autosport member demands, then we ask you to reconsider your membership here. Receive this as an announcement of course-correction: in the coming months, we will more strictly be dealing with problematic attitudes on this board, posters that we identify as being at the center of most fights, or one-note posters who fixate on particular themes in the majority of posts they make. We presume you are all humans, so while we expect an emotional involvement in the topics we discuss here, we don’t expect to mistake your posts for those of disinformation bots. This forum is meant to be a home for healthy discussion and debate. You don’t have to be friends with everyone here, but you do have to respect everyone here, especially if you disagree with them–otherwise, honest discussion is impossible. If we don’t feel you are doing so, don’t be surprised if you are asked to leave.

We are open to any comments, questions, or suggestions for us you all may have about this, but it should be readily obvious that this is not a place to complain about other members. I hope many of us are in agreement that we’d like to see higher-quality discussion than we saw last weekend and would prefer a more respectful, if not lighthearted, atmosphere to most of the conversation here.

Thank you for reading and for your contributions to the board.

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#2 Alfisti

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 03:32

Outstanding.

#3 SenorSjon

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 07:33

Excellent post. A minor gripe I have is that you are unable to report posts in mobile view. You have to switch to desktop, find the post again and then continue. Just like you can't see the likes in mobile view (you can give them though). So you're running blind if posts are high valued.
Regarding the subject:
I expect it to rise before it will fall because of the budget cap. Don't forget team bosses are doing their utmost to polarize further.

I am moderator on a large Dutch forum (some are users here as well) and we notice the Twitterization of comments as well. People are sometimes more interested in broadcasting and defending their own opinion than having a dialogue.

#4 ensign14

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 07:39

Maybe it was better when there was a live chat...



#5 Brackets

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 08:25

Unpopular opinion: it got worse because of the "like" feature. Plenty of problematic posts are clearly just angling for a like.

 

(I've seen a very big and popular DIY-forum - of all things, it's not as if there were big Levis paint vs. Histor paint fights on there - drive itself into the ground in less than 12 months over the exact same thing: everybody started one-lining for likes)



#6 Nemo1965

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 08:30

More than twenty years ago, the Dutch magazine I worked for (which had a circulation of 250.000 prints back then), as the first major publication in the Netherlands, started a (small) op-ed section online. And (drumroll) it also created an open comments-section on which readers could react, directly under the op-eds. So: a Forum (like Atlas, like Comment Section now).
 
These op-eds (opinion pieces) were written by yours truly (a modest staff-writer back then), a female doctor who has become famous as an abortion-activist, and a journalist, who became rather famous in the Netherlands in the ensuing years: Joris Luyendijk. The op-eds were rather innocent opinion-articles, not very political, not very controversial in the light of Dutch society. Regular stuff. 
 
Within three weeks, this open Forum was a trainwreck. The reader must realize that the magazine I worked for was circulated under high-earning professionals with at least an academic degree. The website was freely accessible, but who but the regular readers of the magazine could have known the website and the online-forum were there in the first place? So it was rather shocking that the forum was flooded with aggressive, partisan, bickering bile.
 
After just a month, the publishing company (the biggest in the Netherlands, back then and still), decided to close down the Forum. But - here is the interesting part - the aforementioned Joris Luyendijk asked to write one last op-ed, WITH the chance of readers to react. And boy, did he do a fine job. 
 
He directly challenged the worst contributors. You, with the nickname Peter Great (or whatever anonymous nickname), why were you being such an asshole? You, Mercia, why are you turning every discussion into a personal feud? Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera, with examples.
 
And…most of these ‘disturbing’ posters reacted. And often most reasonably. They often apologized. They explained they never meant to ruin the discourse, they sometimes disagreed with Luyendijk’s analysis but they engaged NOW in an open and civil manner. 
 
These ‘disturbing’ posters were not ugly, lonely trolls living in the basement of their parent’s house (like in the famous South Park-episode about internet trolls). They WERE our readers: people with good jobs, good education, ordinary people who undoubtedly were good civilians and neighbors. But somehow they could not handle the direct freedom of having the chance of expressing their TRUE thoughts and that without repercussions. 
 
It is a pattern I keep seeing in the Netherlands (and beyond) when people who online slander, smear or threaten others are engaged in the open (meaning: in the real world, for example in the courtroom). Yes, in rare cases they are as crazy as a bat (I have an ex-colleague who has turned full conspiracy-nut, he’s on the Interpol-list, no kidding). But usually these men and women when forced are so ordinary, middle of the road, not even particularly bad off in their jobs or lives. 
 
The moral of this story? I really don’t know. As a journalist, I’ve always worked with a code, a set of rules that is not established in law but is agreed upon by most decent journalists (bar vultures working at Fox News or English tabloids, of course). What is clear, that people on social media don’t agree on the rules of engagement, even if they are so clearly explained in this beautiful post starting this thread. 
 
So what to do?  :well:

Edited by Nemo1965, 27 October 2022 - 08:40.


#7 pacificquay

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 09:08

Firstly, well done to the moderators for the thankless task they undertake, often un-noticed. 

 

I think in terms of the tone of debate on these forums some posters need to look at themselves - with casual misogyny and racism being peppered around all too often by some.

 

I also think taking away the ability to have polls would help - they encourage a mindset away from reasoned discussion.



#8 noikeee

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 09:30

 

It is a pattern I keep seeing in the Netherlands (and beyond) when people who online slander, smear or threaten others are engaged in the open (meaning: in the real world, for example in the courtroom). Yes, in rare cases they are as crazy as a bat (I have an ex-colleague who has turned full conspiracy-nut, he’s on the Interpol-list, no kidding). But usually these men and women when forced are so ordinary, middle of the road, not even particularly bad off in their jobs or lives. 
 
The moral of this story?

 

Simple, the internet was a mistake.



#9 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 10:09

Simple, the internet was a mistake.


Joke or not, I couldn’t disagree more. The internet has given me, a fairly introverted person, opportunities to make deep and meaningful connections with people I otherwise would never have been able to, including friends met through this very forum.

My life is vastly richer because of the way the internet connects us. Without it I’d probably be lonely with major anxiety problems.

#10 noikeee

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 10:30

It was a joke.  :D

 

We're not going to overcome toxic-internet-message-boarding (waterboarding?) without spreading out a little bit of humour and less taking other post(er)s so SERIOUSLY.   ;)  (though I can be just as guilty of that as anyone)



#11 Afterburner

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 13:07

More than twenty years ago, the Dutch magazine I worked for…

This sounds a bit like that episode of Gilligan’s Island where Gilligan finds the mind-reading seeds and the castaways think its’s so wonderfully efficient and helpful until they all learn what they are REALLY thinking about each other. This goes on for about 15 minutes and a commercial break until ironically Gilligan is the only one with enough wisdom to burn the tree producing the seeds.

So I guess noikeee is right and we should set fire to the internet? :lol:

#12 PayasYouRace

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 13:17

I’ve never seen Gilligan’s Island but clearly the tone and genre of the series is different to how I imagined.

#13 bibliophagos

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 13:32

Simple, the internet was a mistake.

I don't think the internet was a mistake, but 'social media' will destroy us all.



#14 Burtros

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 14:32

Thankyou and please please make sure you do follow this up with actions against those who lower the quality of this forum for all of us.

#15 TradeMark

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Posted 27 October 2022 - 21:19

Excellent! I'd suggest a fine and a reduction in forum time to offenders!

#16 HP

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 00:46

Simple, the internet was a mistake.

Even as a joke, there's some truth to it. At least the social media part of it. Particularly how social media software has been designed.

 

However some of the issues have also to do with freedom of speech. Most of us would not be pleased if that is taken away.

 

So what to do? As pointed out in a post above, engage with those people in a meaningful way. Sometimes people want to make sure they have been heard in whatever manner possible.

 

That's why I think a forum should allow for more than a like button. More "social" options, and at the same time the ability to see the results, but also for those who don't care, the ability to not have to see those stats. But that is a topic for elsewhere.

 

I'll end with this:

Social media is a little bit like fast food. Not very healthy food overall. Just giving short term energy boost. Designed to come back often. Few choices.

There's a challenge and an opportunity to turn most social media software into a five star restaurant.


Edited by HP, 28 October 2022 - 00:48.


#17 Jones Foyer

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 03:57

Good prep for the news tomorrow (or today depending on your longitudinal location) I think there will certainly be some discontent. Sports are frustrating sometimes, good to keep a positive attitude and be nice!

Edited by Jones Foyer, 28 October 2022 - 04:20.


#18 Marklar

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 07:01

I must disagree here tbh. This forum always had this issue between fanbases, baiting, negativity etc to me. I cannot remember a single "good" race that wasnt followed by a fury of negativity. If anything that bit got better because the way driver/team mate threads have been dealt with drained conflict away.

What has changed in my opinion is that uninformed takes from twitter previously were just laughed off by almost everyone, and those who didnt were sooner or later banned for trolling, nowadays it's taken serious by too many and no longer makes you feel like this place is much the safe place it used to be compared all other F1-related community out there (still better than most)

PS: I have big respect to the work mods do and I'm happy with most, but you should consider once in a while to review this with anonymous surveys for internal review etc. Sometimes you dont realize that your individual style actually doesnt make this a better place and you stay oblivious to this because no one would approach you individually.

Edited by Marklar, 28 October 2022 - 07:02.


#19 TradeMark

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 08:17

Good prep for the news tomorrow (or today depending on your longitudinal location) I think there will certainly be some discontent. Sports are frustrating sometimes, good to keep a positive attitude and be nice!

I do also think after today's news, after the initial outrage, it will get quieter again. Winter break coming up, titles decided, but who knows what curveball comes up next!



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#20 F1 Mike

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 08:51

Whilst I absolutely agree with the crackdown on bad posts and members, I do wonder if it's just natural that there is more of this negativity as the boards become more popular in general.

Is it really becoming worse as a percentage or is it just because there's more quantity?

Whatever the answer, it's definitely time to encourage more civilized and respectful discussion.

It's fine to disagree and argue, but it has to be respectful.

#21 Ferrim

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 09:16

Joke or not, I couldn’t disagree more. The internet has given me, a fairly introverted person, opportunities to make deep and meaningful connections with people I otherwise would never have been able to, including friends met through this very forum.

My life is vastly richer because of the way the internet connects us. Without it I’d probably be lonely with major anxiety problems.

 

Who are you, and why am I writing through your account?



#22 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 09:54

Who are you, and why am I writing through your account?


Maybe I’m one of your other personalities that you didn’t know about until now?

#23 Henri Greuter

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 12:51

One factor that is also very important is not mentioned.

 

it is one that has bitten me on several occasions.

 

The fact that it is so easy to dump all your bile etc. behind the safety of an Alias.

 

I signed up in a time when it was fairly normal to use your real name if you had no bad intentions.

Nowadays, I wished I had not done this and had an alias instead

So I could sling back mud much quicker every time when I get it thrown to me while nowadays I think twice because everyone can see who made nasty comments or insults to others.

 

 

I once was member of a forum that had several members of name and status, and one of them came up with a suggestion that was taken over.

The so called Le Sutton rule.

(if you wonder who was Len Setton: TRY GOOGLE )

I retired from that forum since it drifted off in directons that didn't appeal to me anymore. 

 

The rule called for either sign up under your own name or otherwise close a message with signing off with your own name.

The idea behind it was that without the safety of the alias you would be more careful in your posts because you were exposed.

And that worked.

 

I suppose that would such a rule be applied over here the use of false names etc would increase like mad and fail anyway.

But still....


Edited by Henri Greuter, 28 October 2022 - 12:52.


#24 Risil

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 13:30

But Henri if we made people use their real names then Lewis would have to stop posting here...

#25 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 13:45

This is my real name. I got mercilessly bullied in school but that’s what my birth certificate says.

It’s actually pronounced “Peter”.

#26 Timorous

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 13:49

This sounds a bit like that episode of Gilligan’s Island where Gilligan finds the mind-reading seeds and the castaways think its’s so wonderfully efficient and helpful until they all learn what they are REALLY thinking about each other. This goes on for about 15 minutes and a commercial break until ironically Gilligan is the only one with enough wisdom to burn the tree producing the seeds.

So I guess noikeee is right and we should set fire to the internet? :lol:

 

I think his point is the mods should just call us out directly if we are acting like children rather than being passive and saying 'thread tidy up, please stop being muppets.'



#27 red stick

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 14:00

As an open note to all the membership here, generally, the mods have become concerned with the quality of discussion in Racing Comments.

The USGP race thread this past weekend presents an example of the issues to which we're referring: by most measures, we were served an excellent race, with lots of storylines up and down the grid throughout, and yet most of our membership posting in the thread seemed to be unhappy with one another. The thread was not a very pleasant read for such an exciting race–an exciting race being a rarity over much of the last decade.

To us, the problem appears to be that much of the membership has become deeply invested in backing their drivers or teams, in some cases to such an extreme that the only posts made are ones which serve to inflate the perceived status of a favourite or denigrate the status of others. Those of us who have been here for years know that this has always been part and parcel of posting here to some degree, but subjectively, the long-termers among us also feel that there is a higher number of these types of posts than ever before, and they are frequently vitriolic, intolerant, and almost paranoid to a level which goes beyond playfulness and enters a realm in which any goodwill for others is seemingly nonexistent.

This is not sustainable for our community.


The cause of this partisanship is irrelevant. What concerns us is that it changes. Above all, it's important that everyone here remember that membership to this forum is a privilege. This means that you should see your fellow members as precisely that first and foremost: fellows. On this board, you are all Atlas Autosport members first, regardless of your personal and professional backgrounds or allegiance to drivers and teams. It seems that too frequently, this is forgotten, as being right, or spreading the truth, or whichever favourite justification used for such behaviour more and more often supersedes any obligation to civility. In this sense, you might agree that Racing Comments is a reflection of the broader world in current times. In another sense, as moderators, we are not required to tolerate this, whatever the board rules say.

If you are incapable of behaving in a manner consistent with the respect for your fellow posters that being an Atlas Autosport member demands, then we ask you to reconsider your membership here. Receive this as an announcement of course-correction: in the coming months, we will more strictly be dealing with problematic attitudes on this board, posters that we identify as being at the center of most fights, or one-note posters who fixate on particular themes in the majority of posts they make. We presume you are all humans, so while we expect an emotional involvement in the topics we discuss here, we don’t expect to mistake your posts for those of disinformation bots. This forum is meant to be a home for healthy discussion and debate. You don’t have to be friends with everyone here, but you do have to respect everyone here, especially if you disagree with them–otherwise, honest discussion is impossible. If we don’t feel you are doing so, don’t be surprised if you are asked to leave.

We are open to any comments, questions, or suggestions for us you all may have about this, but it should be readily obvious that this is not a place to complain about other members. I hope many of us are in agreement that we’d like to see higher-quality discussion than we saw last weekend and would prefer a more respectful, if not lighthearted, atmosphere to most of the conversation here.

Thank you for reading and for your contributions to the board.

 

I posted some of this earlier this year in a different context related to the IndyCar threads, but it strikes me that much is relevant.

 

I appreciate the international flavor of this site, with discussions regularly conducted with persons from around three dozen countries.  The wide range of approaches, based on personal experiences and sources of information you may not be aware of in your location, forces you to reconsider your assumptions.  You may not change your mind, but at least, in the best of thread discussions, you'll have to consider a variety of outlooks.  This is all to the good.  The bad is a certain amount of parochialism, which is probably inevitable.  The good so far outweighs the bad that it's not even close.

 

When the advocacy devolves into mindless parochialism, or nationalism, I recall Dr. Johnson's view that this is a last refuge.  I treat it accordingly.  If more would just ignore nonsense rather than going to the mat, this would be a more pleasant place.  Don't feed trolls.  If it looks like outrage is becoming the coin of the realm, change the currency.

 

Because not everything here requires an answer.  And if unrebutted, it doesn't mean it's true.  It's an international motorsports forum.  It's supposed to be fun.

Just one man's two cents,



#28 red stick

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 14:09

This is my real name. I got mercilessly bullied in school but that’s what my birth certificate says.

It’s actually pronounced “Peter”.

Seems apt.

You can't throw a stone in the U.S. this time of year without hitting a pumpkin . . .  

:cool:



#29 Afterburner

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 14:14

PS: I have big respect to the work mods do and I'm happy with most, but you should consider once in a while to review this with anonymous surveys for internal review etc. Sometimes you dont realize that your individual style actually doesnt make this a better place and you stay oblivious to this because no one would approach you individually.

If you or anyone else thinks there are members amongst the moderation team that are influencing the board in a negative way, we encourage you to reach out to those moderators directly via PM. We are all available by PM and are always thankful for any feedback you all have because it helps us do this job better. Certainly, nobody reading the board should be intimidated to share their thoughts with us.

Keep in mind, though, that the majority of the decisions we make—especially if they are far-ranging such as the ones described in the OP or even the decision to approach this issue in the manner we have here—are ones we make as a team; typically the only times we act unilaterally are when the board is moving too quickly for this approach to work (e.g. during races).
 

One factor that is also very important is not mentioned.
 
it is one that has bitten me on several occasions.
 
The fact that it is so easy to dump all your bile etc. behind the safety of an Alias.

I completely agree that anonymity tends to bring out the worst in people, but the safety of an alias is also what stops nutters from looking people up and causing them real harm. With the power of the internet, using only my real name as information, it's possible to get a satellite view of my home and neighborhood in under three minutes, because my government is legally able to post my address, voter registration, and other assorted personal information online—and I cannot prevent this unless I can prove my personal safety is being threatened. I'd rather not give people I've never met that power—not to mention potentially endanger those who share my residence—and I'd imagine others are thankful to be able to use an alias for the same reason.

#30 Henri Greuter

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 14:18

But Henri if we made people use their real names then Lewis would have to stop posting here...

 

But let me tell you this:  It really helps to remain careful in your comments and personal reactions to others if you have no alias to hide beind.

 

There is more to tell about the disadvantage of writing under your own name but I have told you about all that already in PM's.

And I still feel the scars and the effects of that affair by the way.



#31 Henri Greuter

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 14:22

 
I completely agree that anonymity tends to bring out the worst in people, but the safety of an alias is also what stops nutters from looking people up and causing them real harm. With the power of the internet, using only my real name as information, it's possible to get a satellite view of my home and neighborhood in under three minutes, because my government is legally able to post my address, voter registration, and other assorted personal information online—and I cannot prevent this unless I can prove my personal safety is being threatened. I'd rather not give people I've never met that power and I'd imagine others are thankful to be able to use an alias for the same reason.

 

 

Touché.

 

But with that in mind, perhaps way more reasons to enforce quiiting certain kinds of posts and/or hand out bans and punishments in the case of unacceptable comments and behaviour.

provide some self protection but be more vigourous in suppressing certain kinds of behaviour over here.



#32 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 15:03

We had a thread in Website Feedback which we laid out some very good reasons why our forum identities are best left to our own choice.

https://forums.autos...hought-through/

#33 PayasYouRace

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 16:24

But let me tell you this: It really helps to remain careful in your comments and personal reactions to others if you have no alias to hide beind.


Facebook comments sections prove otherwise.

#34 RekF1

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 17:14

As an open note to all the membership here, generally, the mods have become concerned with the quality of discussion in Racing Comments.
The USGP race thread this past weekend presents an example of the issues to which we're referring: by most measures, we were served an excellent race, with lots of storylines up and down the grid throughout, and yet most of our membership posting in the thread seemed to be unhappy with one another. The thread was not a very pleasant read for such an exciting race–an exciting race being a rarity over much of the last decade.
To us, the problem appears to be that much of the membership has become deeply invested in backing their drivers or teams, in some cases to such an extreme that the only posts made are ones which serve to inflate the perceived status of a favourite or denigrate the status of others. Those of us who have been here for years know that this has always been part and parcel of posting here to some degree, but subjectively, the long-termers among us also feel that there is a higher number of these types of posts than ever before, and they are frequently vitriolic, intolerant, and almost paranoid to a level which goes beyond playfulness and enters a realm in which any goodwill for others is seemingly nonexistent.
This is not sustainable for our community.
The cause of this partisanship is irrelevant. What concerns us is that it changes. Above all, it's important that everyone here remember that membership to this forum is a privilege. This means that you should see your fellow members as precisely that first and foremost: fellows. On this board, you are all Atlas Autosport members first, regardless of your personal and professional backgrounds or allegiance to drivers and teams. It seems that too frequently, this is forgotten, as being right, or spreading the truth, or whichever favourite justification used for such behaviour more and more often supersedes any obligation to civility. In this sense, you might agree that Racing Comments is a reflection of the broader world in current times. In another sense, as moderators, we are not required to tolerate this, whatever the board rules say.
If you are incapable of behaving in a manner consistent with the respect for your fellow posters that being an Atlas Autosport member demands, then we ask you to reconsider your membership here. Receive this as an announcement of course-correction: in the coming months, we will more strictly be dealing with problematic attitudes on this board, posters that we identify as being at the center of most fights, or one-note posters who fixate on particular themes in the majority of posts they make. We presume you are all humans, so while we expect an emotional involvement in the topics we discuss here, we don’t expect to mistake your posts for those of disinformation bots. This forum is meant to be a home for healthy discussion and debate. You don’t have to be friends with everyone here, but you do have to respect everyone here, especially if you disagree with them–otherwise, honest discussion is impossible. If we don’t feel you are doing so, don’t be surprised if you are asked to leave.
We are open to any comments, questions, or suggestions for us you all may have about this, but it should be readily obvious that this is not a place to complain about other members. I hope many of us are in agreement that we’d like to see higher-quality discussion than we saw last weekend and would prefer a more respectful, if not lighthearted, atmosphere to most of the conversation here.
Thank you for reading and for your contributions to the board.


I didn't see this when posted, but I'll take that in and act on it from now.

#35 Disgrace

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 18:15

Thanks again to the moderators for your efforts. No idea how you've coped since Abu Dhabi, really.



#36 RekF1

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 18:23

Thanks again to the moderators for your efforts. No idea how you've coped since Abu Dhabi, really.


Especially with the likes of you, always stirring **** up! /s

#37 Heyli

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 18:26

Especially with the likes of you, always stirring shit up! /s

It's a Disgrace!



#38 Disgrace

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 18:53

Especially with the likes of you, always stirring **** up! /s

 

My opinions are genuinely terrible, rather than an attempt to troll. The key to my survival.



#39 red stick

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 19:04

I’ve never seen Gilligan’s Island but clearly the tone and genre of the series is different to how I imagined.

Some were higher concept than others . . . but this is also the series that imagined Hamlet as a musical.

Polonius delivering his "Neither a borrower nor a lender be" speech to the tune of the Toreador Song sticks with you.

Edited by red stick, 28 October 2022 - 19:18.


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#40 Ali_G

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 19:33

An outstanding and timely post. The level of discourse has hit an all time low by some on here in the last few weeks. Most unbefitting of what is a forum with a lot of very intelligent and seasoned posters.

#41 pRy

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 19:54

Well said Afterburner.

I think this forum is taken for granted. Perhaps unknowingly for the most part. But there are no guarantees in regards to it's future support and it's one of the few, rare examples of a 90s internet era forum that's still going. One day this place might not be here. It's worth keeping that in mind when you engage with it. Treat it as a precious method of communicating with fellow internet users that hasn't been corrupted by the scurge of algorythms and everything else negative about social networks.
 
We're generally all here for the same reason. Be kind to each other and show appreciation to the incredible job the moderation teams do.


Edited by pRy, 28 October 2022 - 19:55.


#42 Nemo1965

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 20:13

Facebook comments sections prove otherwise.

Indeed. I used to think that anonymity was the reason that people could not behave online. But lately even politicians post crazy stuff under their own name. I’m not even talking about the Orange Baboon. There is a Dutch member of our House of Commons who said recently we are being secretly governed by Jews and… lizard people. Members of the same party doxed journalists (meaning putting the private addresses on social media… like Facebook and Twitter… so demonstrably under their own name!)

Are they legally liable to be persecuted? Yes. Does that reduce their credibility with their own voters? No. It only gives them more publicity. And attention. And that is the goal, being obnoxious, ostracized: for some people it does not matter, as long as they can find appreciation in their own bubble.

Edited by Nemo1965, 28 October 2022 - 20:19.


#43 Henri Greuter

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 20:16

Indeed. I used to think that anonymity was the reason that people could not behave online. But lately even politicians post crazy stuff under their own name. I’m not even talking about the Orange Baboon. There is a Dutch member of our House of Commons who said recently we are being secretly governed by Jews and… lizard people. Members of the same party doxed journalists (meaning putting the private addresses on social media… like Facebook and Twitter… so demonstrably under their own name!)

Are they legally liable to be persecuted? Yes. Does that reduce their credibility with their own voters? No. It only gives them more publicity. And attention. And that is the goal, being on noxious, ostracized: for some people it does not matter, as long as they can find appreciation in their own bubble.

I had instant flash-backs of that magnificent SF series "V" (the final battle) that was quite a sensation on Dutch TV in the fall of 1984 after reading that "certain politician's" belief.

That TV serie was way ahead of its time after all!


Edited by Henri Greuter, 28 October 2022 - 20:16.


#44 Nemo1965

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 20:48

Well said Afterburner.

I think this forum is taken for granted. Perhaps unknowingly for the most part. But there are no guarantees in regards to it's future support and it's one of the few, rare examples of a 90s internet era forum that's still going. One day this place might not be here. It's worth keeping that in mind when you engage with it. Treat it as a precious method of communicating with fellow internet users that hasn't been corrupted by the scurge of algorythms and everything else negative about social networks.

We're generally all here for the same reason. Be kind to each other and show appreciation to the incredible job the moderation teams do.

that hasn't been corrupted by the scurge of algorythms… that might be true, but posting over the top posts will always draw more attention than low-key ones. So saying Perez is not as good as Verstappen draws little attention, ‘third rate driver’ or something like that will draw a lot of attention. So the posts that the OP adressed are a kind of man-made algorithms.

Edited by Nemo1965, 28 October 2022 - 22:30.


#45 Fastcake

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Posted 28 October 2022 - 22:29

As I believe I now qualify as a long-term user*, I do very much feel over the past year or so the standard of discussion here has taken an unfortunate nosedive. More and more topics are being ruined by overly partisan posters. And it's not simply topics directly concerning the racing or primary protagonists, threads as diverse as broadcasting or driver helmets get infested by the types who seem to take the flimsiest possible excuse to turn the discussion into a driver vs driver thread.

 

Perhaps the worst trend are the growing numbers who seem to make broad based assumptions based on your (assumed) nationality or favoured competitor. It quickly creates a toxic atmosphere when no discussion is deemed possible by people who appear to believe you are not capable of discussing anything without a secret agenda, while they themselves are apparently a paragon of objectivity.

 

I would very much welcome our hard working moderators (boy am I glad I turned the chance down after the past year :lol:) cleaning up the forums by tightening the noose a bit! 

 

 

*12 years!? As your dad would say on his wedding anniversary, you get longer for murder.



#46 F1 Mike

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Posted 29 October 2022 - 21:15

*12 years!? As your dad would say on his wedding anniversary, you get longer for murder.

Just reading this and thinking... yikes I have to swap those numbers around :lol: time does indeed pass extremely quickly.

I do remember some quite hateful comments about James Allen back in the day (On ITV alongside Brundle) We are never ever fully happy with the commentators!

#47 Widefoot2

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Posted 30 October 2022 - 01:50

Indeed. I used to think that anonymity was the reason that people could not behave online. But lately even politicians post crazy stuff under their own name. I’m not even talking about the Orange Baboon. There is a Dutch member of our House of Commons who said recently we are being secretly governed by Jews and… lizard people. Members of the same party doxed journalists (meaning putting the private addresses on social media… like Facebook and Twitter… so demonstrably under their own name!)

Are they legally liable to be persecuted? Yes. Does that reduce their credibility with their own voters? No. It only gives them more publicity. And attention. And that is the goal, being obnoxious, ostracized: for some people it does not matter, as long as they can find appreciation in their own bubble.

Humans seem to be expert at making bad decisions, and those tend to multiply with density.  Not just cranial, but population.  With the Internet, we have the largest number of people "gathered together" ever, and see what's come of it.  Trace it back to TV, radio, and before that the printing press, and look how we've used those assembly methods to spread vile or manipulative messages. Father Coughlin, the Rwanda DJs who helped provoke Tutsi attacks, etc.  Now we've got the worst outcome possible with Musk taking over Twitter, and likely giving voice back to some truly deplorable people.

 

So we shouldn't be shocked that in this microcosm we have similar dynamics.  All we really can do is hold onto our own humanity, remind ourselves that others are similarly imbued, and isolate those whose only goal seems to be to foment disruption.

 

And could we do that with the leaders we allow into power? I'm tempted to start a thread in Paddock about that...



#48 Alfisti

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Posted 30 October 2022 - 02:54

The current Mexican lead up thread post Qual needs a napalm.

#49 AustinF1

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Posted 30 October 2022 - 03:15

Simple, the internet was a mistake.

Yeah. Thanks a lot, Al Gore!

 

 ;)



#50 RPM40

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Posted 30 October 2022 - 03:24

I've noticed a lot of the discussion post DTS has not improved motorsport in general. The addition of some very controversial governance decisions has pushed that over the top. I think F1 as a whole is one of the more nuanced sports and it is often very difficult to tell who is performing best due to that complexity.

 

These forums have remained one of, if not the nicest places to discuss motorsports on the internet. Twitter or FB have basically turned into toxic waste in recent years.

 

I'm not claiming I'm a saint either, but on here in general due to the excellent moderation its far better than most other corners of the internet.


Edited by RPM40, 30 October 2022 - 03:25.