My aged Thrustmaster T2 steering wheel and pedals are dying. The brake pedal is beyond redemption. What do I replace it with? I primarily play GPL, if that matters. Foot pedals are a must. I am also not interested in converting to a joystick, even though I know they are faster. I want to feel like I'm driving. Would appreciate advice from any and all.
New Steering Wheel Wanted
Started by
Fast One
, Nov 29 1999 05:23
17 replies to this topic
#3
Linus27
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Posted 06 December 1999 - 08:12
Don't touch the ActLabs get the new Guillemot Ferrari Force Feedback wheel. It is the best.
#4
Brackets
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Posted 06 December 1999 - 19:56
Linus,
are you serious? I've been browsing the web for quite some time now to find some sort of review on this wheel, but all I can find is reviews of their old model, which apparantly rated 2/5. the ACT was 5/5, but I can't get that wheel in Belgium (at a reasonable price).
The new Guillemot is about 15$ cheaper the Microsoft wheel, and about 80$ cheaper than the wingman, but I don't know if you get any games with it.
Has anybody seen/heard/read a review on the new Guillemot? Or better yet, has anybody played it?
Jimbo.
are you serious? I've been browsing the web for quite some time now to find some sort of review on this wheel, but all I can find is reviews of their old model, which apparantly rated 2/5. the ACT was 5/5, but I can't get that wheel in Belgium (at a reasonable price).
The new Guillemot is about 15$ cheaper the Microsoft wheel, and about 80$ cheaper than the wingman, but I don't know if you get any games with it.
Has anybody seen/heard/read a review on the new Guillemot? Or better yet, has anybody played it?
Jimbo.
#5
SKL
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Posted 07 December 1999 - 00:21
I've been very happy with the Thomas Enterprises Wheel- made in USA. Very durable-no junk plastic and now you can get a real Momo wheel, paddles, clutch pedal, etc. Any racing sim page should have their web page or a link to it. thrustmasters are junk- don't waste time with them!
#6
Rich
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Posted 07 December 1999 - 05:38
Or you could take out a second mortgage before visiting : http://ourworld.comp...epages/extreme/
What's wrong with the brake pedal, Fast One? If it's just got a broken spring, that's easy to replace. I got a whole bunch custom-made for my T2, and I just replace as necessary. The custom jobs are also stiffer than the originals, which gives the pedal better feel IMO.
If you want to upgrade, I'd go with either the Wingman Formula Force of the Microsoft Sidewinder. I play-tested both, and they're both excellent. The Wingman has the better wheel, the Microsoft has better pedals. The advantage of buying either the Microsoft or Logitech product is that more games are sure to support them. I've had grief with little-known (and little-supported) controllers of all persuasions.
Even if you play the non-force feedback version of GPL, it helps to have a FF controller. They have such a great positive and precise action, they're way better than the old Thrustmaster and CH wheels.
What's wrong with the brake pedal, Fast One? If it's just got a broken spring, that's easy to replace. I got a whole bunch custom-made for my T2, and I just replace as necessary. The custom jobs are also stiffer than the originals, which gives the pedal better feel IMO.
If you want to upgrade, I'd go with either the Wingman Formula Force of the Microsoft Sidewinder. I play-tested both, and they're both excellent. The Wingman has the better wheel, the Microsoft has better pedals. The advantage of buying either the Microsoft or Logitech product is that more games are sure to support them. I've had grief with little-known (and little-supported) controllers of all persuasions.
Even if you play the non-force feedback version of GPL, it helps to have a FF controller. They have such a great positive and precise action, they're way better than the old Thrustmaster and CH wheels.
#7
Linus27
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Posted 07 December 1999 - 08:13
Jimbo
the old Guillemot wheels are crap but so is the ActLabs. My paddles broke after two days and the pedals are awful. The New Guillemot Ferrari wheel is amazing, trust me, I have tried loads and this is the best. There is so much precision its scary. The best advice you can get is to go and try them all before buying and read what people say. Just because I hate the ActLabs does not mean you will and vica versa.
the old Guillemot wheels are crap but so is the ActLabs. My paddles broke after two days and the pedals are awful. The New Guillemot Ferrari wheel is amazing, trust me, I have tried loads and this is the best. There is so much precision its scary. The best advice you can get is to go and try them all before buying and read what people say. Just because I hate the ActLabs does not mean you will and vica versa.
#8
Fast One
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Posted 07 December 1999 - 09:34
To all--
This thread was kind of quiet, so not being convinced which one of the wheels I wanted, I just went out and bought the non force feed Logitech. I have 30 days to return it though, so I'm listening to all of you. I went to the Thomas Enterprise site before, nad tried to go again a couple of days ago and was told they could not be found. Did they go out of business.
Rich--
I'm a low tech kind of guy, so I didn't bother checking to see if the spring could be replaced on my Thrustmaster. I was kind of looking for an excuse to replace it. Does GPL support force feedback? Someone I asked told me no, hence the recent purchase. If it does, and if it makes a difference in lap times and/ or realism, I'll spend the money.
Reviews I read said the ACT Labs wasn't precise enough in its steering, the pedals on the Logitech are a joke, and I didn't like the feel of the Microsoft wheel in the store. Too bad Microsoft's pedals can't be connected to Logitech's beautiful wheel.
Thanks for all the input everyone.
This thread was kind of quiet, so not being convinced which one of the wheels I wanted, I just went out and bought the non force feed Logitech. I have 30 days to return it though, so I'm listening to all of you. I went to the Thomas Enterprise site before, nad tried to go again a couple of days ago and was told they could not be found. Did they go out of business.
Rich--
I'm a low tech kind of guy, so I didn't bother checking to see if the spring could be replaced on my Thrustmaster. I was kind of looking for an excuse to replace it. Does GPL support force feedback? Someone I asked told me no, hence the recent purchase. If it does, and if it makes a difference in lap times and/ or realism, I'll spend the money.
Reviews I read said the ACT Labs wasn't precise enough in its steering, the pedals on the Logitech are a joke, and I didn't like the feel of the Microsoft wheel in the store. Too bad Microsoft's pedals can't be connected to Logitech's beautiful wheel.
Thanks for all the input everyone.
#9
Rich
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Posted 08 December 1999 - 02:16
Fast One, GPL does indeed support Force Feedback, although you have to download the most recent patch in order to enable it. It's available from most GPL-related websites. For some odd reason, I never got mine to work properly, and haven't grieved over it. I've yet to play a racing game that's appreciably better with FF than without.
However, I still play GPL with the Force Feedback button on the wheel turned 'on'. Even though I get no tactile feedback from hitting or driving over things, it nevertheless gives a great feeling of resistance from the wheel, and allows for more precise, accurate turning IMHO. I played GPL with the old Thrustmaster the other day, and couldn't believe how loose and imprecise the steering was.
I agree with you 100% - I hated the 'Air Nike' feel of the Logitech pedals, and the Microsoft wheel isn't great either (particularly those crappy buttons instead of paddles). Unfortunately, there's no way that I know of to marry the Microsoft pedals to the Logitech wheel. For starters, there'd be nowhere to plug the darn power cable in - the sockets are on the Microsoft wheel and on the Logitech pedal base
However, I still play GPL with the Force Feedback button on the wheel turned 'on'. Even though I get no tactile feedback from hitting or driving over things, it nevertheless gives a great feeling of resistance from the wheel, and allows for more precise, accurate turning IMHO. I played GPL with the old Thrustmaster the other day, and couldn't believe how loose and imprecise the steering was.
I agree with you 100% - I hated the 'Air Nike' feel of the Logitech pedals, and the Microsoft wheel isn't great either (particularly those crappy buttons instead of paddles). Unfortunately, there's no way that I know of to marry the Microsoft pedals to the Logitech wheel. For starters, there'd be nowhere to plug the darn power cable in - the sockets are on the Microsoft wheel and on the Logitech pedal base
#10
Fast One
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Posted 08 December 1999 - 05:45
Rich--
Thanks for the follow up. I have downloaded version 1.2 of GPL; i assume that's the force feedback version. I will return my Logitech non-force wheel and pick up the force feedback version. I had thought to buy time, figuring maybe Logitech would improve those silly pedals (What were they thinking?)soon and I wouldn't be stuck with the bad ones. But one problem I have had with both the Thrustmaster and the Logitech is overcorrection. Usually when I lose the car, it is in correcting a slide or a small error. Sounds like the force feedback wheel will help in this regard.
Thanks for the follow up. I have downloaded version 1.2 of GPL; i assume that's the force feedback version. I will return my Logitech non-force wheel and pick up the force feedback version. I had thought to buy time, figuring maybe Logitech would improve those silly pedals (What were they thinking?)soon and I wouldn't be stuck with the bad ones. But one problem I have had with both the Thrustmaster and the Logitech is overcorrection. Usually when I lose the car, it is in correcting a slide or a small error. Sounds like the force feedback wheel will help in this regard.
#11
JayWay
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Posted 27 March 2000 - 12:25
Thought I would bring this topic back.
Im considering buying a wheel since I just won F1-2000. Have the peddals on the logitec been improved? Are there any new models out there that you would recomend?
Im considering buying a wheel since I just won F1-2000. Have the peddals on the logitec been improved? Are there any new models out there that you would recomend?
#12
The Swerve
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Posted 27 March 2000 - 08:21
This thread is a bit out of date! Linus has now changed his mind about the Act Labs!
He loves it, got it back again, and I bought one on his recommendation and I love it too. The only slight downside is that the pedals aren't brilliant but AL are bringing out a much better set (with a clutch too) very soon and you can upgrade the wheel driver software to use individual axis for the pedals which improves things a lot.
The wheel is really solid and feels good and the Force Feedback is very powerful and precise.
This is just my opinion but I am very happy.
He loves it, got it back again, and I bought one on his recommendation and I love it too. The only slight downside is that the pedals aren't brilliant but AL are bringing out a much better set (with a clutch too) very soon and you can upgrade the wheel driver software to use individual axis for the pedals which improves things a lot.
The wheel is really solid and feels good and the Force Feedback is very powerful and precise.
This is just my opinion but I am very happy.
#13
Linus27
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Posted 28 March 2000 - 06:46
Yes that is very true. I ate my hat and it tasted horrible. Sorry. My Ferrari wheel broke, twice and I got the ActLabs again and it is fantastic.
#14
JayWay
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Posted 28 March 2000 - 08:34
where is a site with good reviews on these kinds of hardware?
#15
Fast One
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Posted 28 March 2000 - 09:11
Thanks to Rich, I got my GPL to work again. It quit functioning in December when I got the Logitech FF wheel. I quit playing GPL for three months as a result. Now that that is solved, I got the FF to work as of today. What a difference. It has slowed me a bit, but I have already found I crash less due to the better "feel", and on the couple of tracks I've spent time on, I'm within 1/2 to 1 second of my old best.
Unfortunately, I read a review of a early version of the Act Labs wheel, which specifically recommended avoiding it for GPL due to its then lack of precision when turning in. Obviously, that problem has been straightened out. I love the wheel on my Logitech. It has a good feel, and everything is easy to reach, but the pedals are Mickey Mouse. I think if I adapt pedals with more pedal travel it will make a big difference. In arcade games, like Sports car GT, they weren't a problem, but GPL demands so much precision...
Has anyone used both the Logitech and Act Labs wheels? I'd love to read a head-to-head comparison using GPL as the test.
Unfortunately, I read a review of a early version of the Act Labs wheel, which specifically recommended avoiding it for GPL due to its then lack of precision when turning in. Obviously, that problem has been straightened out. I love the wheel on my Logitech. It has a good feel, and everything is easy to reach, but the pedals are Mickey Mouse. I think if I adapt pedals with more pedal travel it will make a big difference. In arcade games, like Sports car GT, they weren't a problem, but GPL demands so much precision...
Has anyone used both the Logitech and Act Labs wheels? I'd love to read a head-to-head comparison using GPL as the test.
#16
Rich
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Posted 29 March 2000 - 00:31
Hi Fast One, glad to hear you got the problems sorted eventually. I play-tested the Logitech a while back, and my gaming site owner phoned me today to say 'I've got an ACT Labs wheel for you to review'. Apparently it's the full Monty with the add-on gear-shifter and all the bells and whistles. I'm picking it up for review tomorrow. I'll let you know how I rate the two wheels head-to-head.
#17
Bennett
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Posted 29 March 2000 - 07:24
Fast One:
I went through all the hassle and pain of physically trying out the following wheels:
CH Racing System
Thrustmaster T2
Thrustmaster Nascar Pro
Logitech Wingman Force
Thrustmaster Nascar Force GT
ACT LABS Force RS (w/o shifter)
Guillemot Ferrari Force Feedback
Saitek R4 Force Feedback (waiting for the mail)
Yes, I actually bought and tried out each and every wheel (of course I returned some as well).
I'll skip the non-force wheel feedback info.
Forget the Thrustmaster Nascar/Formula Force GT. It has poor force feedback and imprecise control.
I have had the best experience with the Logitech unit. The wheel is smooth and precise, but the pedals are pitifull with respect to their throw and resistance. I have upgraded the springs (much stiffer) in my Logitech unit and have had great results, the only downfall is the short throw. The "upgraded" springs advertised on the newer Logitech units are still way too loose in my opinion.
ACT LABS makes an excellent wheel also, but it is definitely not as precise because of its powerful motor; you can actually feel the physical windings and brushes in contact as well as the notchiness of the gears. For some people this might not be a problem, but for me the Logitech was much more precise. While the ACT LABS pedals were better than the Logitech, they too seemed rather imprecise as well. My pedal units also had the sticking problem that many earlier units had. I understand that has been corrected. The "spoon" shifters on the ACT LABS are terrible, but the RS shifter should take care of that. I don't know if they have upgraded the "spoon" shifters on the Force RS.
The Ferrari wheel was a big disappointment. The build quality was awfull. The wheel action was surprisingly smooth, second only to the Logitech, but for me the pedals are worse than the Logitech unit. The pedal spring force is very weak and the "ergonomic" double-action hinged pedals made it difficult to "squeeze" the pedals in fine increments. The in-line shifter is fine. The paddle shifters, however, have excessive throw. The actual paddles "click" with a short throw, but the mechanical stop is actually much further away. I was not able to try the analogue hand levers as the drivers at the time did not support them. I think Guillemot used the force feedback motor and electronics from the Nascar Force GT as the feedback was similarly weak and inconsistent.
I am currently waiting for my Saitek R4 wheel (should be delivered tomorrow!). From what I understand I am receiving the last unit allocated for North America.
Sorry the post is so long. If there are any specific questions on a wheel, I would be more than happy to elaborate.
I went through all the hassle and pain of physically trying out the following wheels:
CH Racing System
Thrustmaster T2
Thrustmaster Nascar Pro
Logitech Wingman Force
Thrustmaster Nascar Force GT
ACT LABS Force RS (w/o shifter)
Guillemot Ferrari Force Feedback
Saitek R4 Force Feedback (waiting for the mail)
Yes, I actually bought and tried out each and every wheel (of course I returned some as well).
I'll skip the non-force wheel feedback info.
Forget the Thrustmaster Nascar/Formula Force GT. It has poor force feedback and imprecise control.
I have had the best experience with the Logitech unit. The wheel is smooth and precise, but the pedals are pitifull with respect to their throw and resistance. I have upgraded the springs (much stiffer) in my Logitech unit and have had great results, the only downfall is the short throw. The "upgraded" springs advertised on the newer Logitech units are still way too loose in my opinion.
ACT LABS makes an excellent wheel also, but it is definitely not as precise because of its powerful motor; you can actually feel the physical windings and brushes in contact as well as the notchiness of the gears. For some people this might not be a problem, but for me the Logitech was much more precise. While the ACT LABS pedals were better than the Logitech, they too seemed rather imprecise as well. My pedal units also had the sticking problem that many earlier units had. I understand that has been corrected. The "spoon" shifters on the ACT LABS are terrible, but the RS shifter should take care of that. I don't know if they have upgraded the "spoon" shifters on the Force RS.
The Ferrari wheel was a big disappointment. The build quality was awfull. The wheel action was surprisingly smooth, second only to the Logitech, but for me the pedals are worse than the Logitech unit. The pedal spring force is very weak and the "ergonomic" double-action hinged pedals made it difficult to "squeeze" the pedals in fine increments. The in-line shifter is fine. The paddle shifters, however, have excessive throw. The actual paddles "click" with a short throw, but the mechanical stop is actually much further away. I was not able to try the analogue hand levers as the drivers at the time did not support them. I think Guillemot used the force feedback motor and electronics from the Nascar Force GT as the feedback was similarly weak and inconsistent.
I am currently waiting for my Saitek R4 wheel (should be delivered tomorrow!). From what I understand I am receiving the last unit allocated for North America.
Sorry the post is so long. If there are any specific questions on a wheel, I would be more than happy to elaborate.
#18
The Swerve
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Posted 29 March 2000 - 07:42
I know what you mean about the notchy-ness of the Act Labs but after you have used it for a while it softens right up and it's not a problem. The paddles are the weakest part of it and the pedals are as good as any other out there at the moment,
