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Hamilton/Verstappen incident, Brazil 2022


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Poll: Hamilton vs Verstappen Brazil 2022 (394 member(s) have cast votes)

Who's fault?

  1. Hamilton (134 votes [34.01%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.01%

  2. Equal responsibility (108 votes [27.41%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.41%

  3. Verstappen (152 votes [38.58%])

    Percentage of vote: 38.58%

Fair penalty?

  1. Yes (100 votes [25.38%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.38%

  2. No - should have been harsher for Verstappen (46 votes [11.68%])

    Percentage of vote: 11.68%

  3. No - racing incident, penalty not required (146 votes [37.06%])

    Percentage of vote: 37.06%

  4. No - Hamilton should have been penalised instead (102 votes [25.89%])

    Percentage of vote: 25.89%

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#1 Risil

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:20

They collided. Everyone in the pub thinks it was Lewis's fault. But was it?

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#2 Disgrace

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:21

They collided. Everyone in the pub thinks it was Lewis's fault. But was it?

 

The pub consensus is correct - you can't just turn in if someone is well up your inside. Twice Hamilton has made this mistake now.



#3 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:21

Yes it was

#4 Diablobb81

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:22

If you have to blame someone (when they are fighting side by side) it has to be Lewis.



#5 Kev00

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:23

I thought slightly Lewis but you’re looking at tiny margins and it more clumsy and a racing incident for me

#6 ForzaGTR

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:24

Verstappen at fault and penalised. About time

#7 Ali_G

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:25

Surely needs a poll?

#8 JoeShmoe

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:26

About time he got penalised, never knows when to back out

#9 wingwalker

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:26

Actually I thought it was a bit rich from Max to try to fit his car there, but then again he was ahead just before... I'd like to see the onboards.



#10 Augurk

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:27

That’s the stewards saying you can’t overtake on the inside into T2 then? If you’re 75% alongside and get penalized if someone closes the door and crashes into you.

#11 PoliFanAthic

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:27

Wow, that penalty makes zero sense to me. Racing incident or Ham to fault as far as I read it. Thankfully it doesn't matter.

#12 Ruusperi

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:27

Textbook racing incident.



#13 Ncedi

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:27

So you don't have to give a car alongside you racing room? Lovely from the stewards there...

So inconsistent it's ridiculous

#14 GentlemanDriver091

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:28

About time he got penalised, never knows when to back out

How could he back out? I really don’t see it.

#15 Ivanhoe

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:28

Guidelines on overtaking. Ridiculous penalty.

 

 

In order for a car being overtaken to be required to give sufficient room to an overtaking car, the overtaking car needs to have a significant portion of the car alongside the car being overtaken and the overtaking manoeuvre must be done in a safe and controlled manner, while enabling the car to clearly remain within the limits of the track.

When considering what is a ‘significant portion’ for an overtaking on the inside of a corner, among the various factors that will be looked at by the stewards when exercising their discretion, the stewards will consider if the overtaking car’s front tyres are alongside the other car by no later than the apex of the corner.



#16 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:29

Stewards have completely lost the plot with that decision. Since when can a defending driver just crowd out an attacking driver who is almost fully alongside?

#17 CSF

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:29

Are the FIA scared to give Hamilton and Mercedes a penalty because of the nonsense that would follow it from the online mob?



#18 Disgrace

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:29

So you don't have to give a car alongside you racing room? Lovely from the stewards there...

So inconsistent it's ridiculous

 

Yeah, if that was Stroll rather than Hamilton on the outside, I wonder how they would have decided. A hopeless decision.



#19 Peat

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:29

Remarkable stewarding. 

Racing incident, but if you had, HAD to penalise someone then I would have said Lewis.  :rotfl: 

 



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#20 Montie

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:30

I don’t understand why Verstappen got the penalty, to me Hamilton left no room.

#21 Spillage

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:30

One of the worst stewarding decisions we've seen in a while, and up against some stuff competition too.

#22 Button4life

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:30

Not a chance that was Max’ fault. More Lewis’ fault than Max.

#23 Huffer

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:31

Totally on Max. Stewards agree. He was the car behind - the only way that move was going to work was if the Merc wasn't there. A typical Max "move or else" move. 



#24 Ali_G

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:32

Can’t for the life of me understand that decision. Verstappen was at worst 3/4 up on Hamilton and it wasn’t a dive bomb.

I hope this doesn’t start a trend as it will completely kill racing.

#25 Ali623

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:32

Certainly wasn't Verstappen's fault, can't argue that. Most likely Hamilton's fault (if not, a racing incident)



#26 Ali_G

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:32

Totally on Max. Stewards agree. He was the car behind - the only way that move was going to work was if the Merc wasn't there. A typical Max "move or else" move.


He was 3/4 alongside. How can anyone pass on the inside of the corner if that isn’t allowable? Mind boggling.

#27 Ivanhoe

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:33

Totally on Max. Stewards agree. He was the car behind - the only way that move was going to work was if the Merc wasn't there. A typical Max "move or else" move. 

Maybe read the FIA guidelines on overtaking.



#28 Ljransom

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:33

Verstappen at fault and penalised. About time


Any unbaised or knowledgeable viewer would know that was clearly a racing incident, swaying towards Lewis's fault. You just have to look at the wording in the regulations. If it was the other way round round could you honestly say you would have the same view? I highly doubt it lol.

#29 Huffer

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:34

He was 3/4 alongside. How can anyone pass on the inside of the corner if that isn’t allowable? Mind boggling.

 

At the point of contact. But not before. 



#30 Huffer

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:34

Maybe read the FIA guidelines on overtaking.

 

Perhaps you should do the same.



#31 Roadhouse

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:34

Max earned a car's width there, weird decision by the stewards.



#32 Ivanhoe

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:34

Perhaps you should do the same.

I did.

 

Guidelines on overtaking. Ridiculous penalty.

In order for a car being overtaken to be required to give sufficient room to an overtaking car, the overtaking car needs to have a significant portion of the car alongside the car being overtaken and the overtaking manoeuvre must be done in a safe and controlled manner, while enabling the car to clearly remain within the limits of the track.

When considering what is a ‘significant portion’ for an overtaking on the inside of a corner, among the various factors that will be looked at by the stewards when exercising their discretion, the stewards will consider if the overtaking car’s front tyres are alongside the other car by no later than the apex of the corner.



#33 Ellios

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:36

HAM fault, VER fault, FIA fault, Ruining F1, Never watching F1 again (I added that one).

 

HOUSE ! Bingo card filled ! 



#34 ebc

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:37

Racing incident but if I had to pin blame on one of them it would be Hamilton, bizarre decision by the stewards.

#35 Huffer

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:37

I did.

 

Right. You must have missed the "among the various factors" part of text , or purposefully ignored it. It's not the only factor, and it doesn't state that it's the primary factor. But by all means, keep on being high handed and telling those who dare to disagree with you to "read the regulations".


Edited by Huffer, 13 November 2022 - 18:38.


#36 Ali_G

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:37

At the point of contact. But not before.


He was fully alongside him earlier in the corner.

#37 Huffer

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:39

He was fully alongside him earlier in the corner.

 

But not when it mattered. 



#38 Ivanhoe

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:39

Right. You must have missed the "among the various factors" part of text , or purposefully ignored it. It's not the only factor, and it doesn't state that it's the primary factor. But by all means, keep on being high handed and telling those who dare to disagree with you to "read the regulations".

So what are those “various factors” in this case?



#39 Huffer

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:40

So what are those “various factors” in this case?

 

You tell me. You've read the regulations, apparently. 



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#40 KLF1F

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:40

Stewards took 1 whole year to apply Max's penalty at Brazil it seems  :lol: 



#41 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:40

So what are those “various factors” in this case?

Don’t feed the troll.::

#42 Ali_G

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:40

But not when it mattered.


You’re just making stuff up.

#43 CSF

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:42

From that onboard, Hamilton runs him wide in T1 then just... drives into him in T2.



#44 ClubmanGT

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:43

HAM fault, VER fault, FIA fault, Ruining F1, Never watching F1 again (I added that one).

 

HOUSE ! Bingo card filled ! 

 

What do we do for the next 100 pages then? 

 

Bit cool for this time of year, innit? 



#45 jacdaniel

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:43

Red Bull need to appeal this. A criminal decision

#46 Huffer

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:45

You’re just making stuff up.

 

No. He was briefly ahead in the first corner, which left him off-line for the second and having to take a less than optimal line for it, meaning that he'd have to slow down to even make it without understeering and going off. So Max ended up farther behind as they entered the next corner and the only way he was going to make the corner at that point was for the Merc to disappear. He wasn't really in a position to make that corner. It was just a "move or we crash" move. Well. He got one of those wishes and screwed himself in the process. 



#47 JeePee

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:45

Lewis just did what he did to Alonso in Spa.

#48 F1FanAJ

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:46

I realy mis the RB pit wall to FIA radio conversation...  :drunk:



#49 FullOppositeLock

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:47

Red Bull need to appeal this. A criminal decision


I imagine they will definitely seek clarification. That penalty makes absolutely no sense at all based on the guidelines FIA issued in the off season. It’s beyond the pale really

#50 ClubmanGT

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Posted 13 November 2022 - 18:47

I hope this doesn’t start a trend as it will completely kill racing.

 

It sets a hell of a precedent. 

 

Having to complete an overtake before the car you're overtaking has to actually give you any space or is not allowed to just drive into you is going to set a really high bar.