Jump to content


Photo
* * * * * 1 votes

Gazzetta: Frederic Vasseur will be Ferrari TP from Jan 23 [New update: Vasseur confirmed]


  • Please log in to reply
394 replies to this topic

#351 IrvTheSwerve

IrvTheSwerve
  • Member

  • 4,982 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 13 December 2022 - 08:57

Joking aside, wish him well. And will be not at all surprised if nothing much changes.

To be honest, I feel that F1 teams are such massive organisations these days that the effect of the Team Principle role is a bit overstated by the fans and media. Of course, they have an organisational (and political) role…but I expect Ferrari to be pretty much in the same position next season. Maybe long term he can have an effect if he brings in the right people. Not sure if it’s a DTS effect, but they seem to be more of a media character than anything else these days. Wolff and Horner, for example…I bet the average DTS viewer hasn’t got a clue what their roles are. Steiner didn’t get anywhere near the attention when he was at Jaguar, before the whole DTS ‘focksmash’ stuff. The fact that many were calling for Steiner to get the Ferrari gig says it all.

 

As a Ferrari fan I’d be much more excited if they’d hired (for example) some new engineers from Mercedes or Redbull, or overhauled their strategy team.


Edited by IrvTheSwerve, 13 December 2022 - 09:00.


Advertisement

#352 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 9,683 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 13 December 2022 - 09:11

Very uninspiring.

As much charisma as a brick. Oh well.

#353 Okyo

Okyo
  • Member

  • 2,842 posts
  • Joined: March 14

Posted 13 December 2022 - 09:13

Best of luck to him, which he will certainly need. 

The team had their fair share of polarizing personalities. Do welcome something more calm and cheerful. 


Edited by Okyo, 13 December 2022 - 09:14.


#354 Beri

Beri
  • Member

  • 11,448 posts
  • Joined: January 14

Posted 13 December 2022 - 09:17

Very uninspiring.
As much charisma as a brick. Oh well.


And Todt had charisma? I think Vasseur beats Todt to that any day of the week.

#355 mkad

mkad
  • Member

  • 112 posts
  • Joined: March 21

Posted 13 December 2022 - 09:18

This rumour seems to have been spot on.



#356 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 9,683 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 13 December 2022 - 09:19

On the plus side, this is very good for Leclerc who will be prioritised, probably from the off.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 13 December 2022 - 09:19.


#357 Hellenic tifosi

Hellenic tifosi
  • Member

  • 6,564 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 13 December 2022 - 09:29

The team seemed to be heading in the right direction anyway - so I think that with just a few strategic changes Ferrari should be ok.



#358 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 35,982 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 13 December 2022 - 09:30

I think Vasseur is a good Team Manager/Principal, when he and Abiteboul were fighting at Reneault he was the one I thought should have stayed, I think he has done good at Alpha Romeo and would expect him to be good at Ferrari.

 

Anyone getting the position he has now will have to deal with the politics of being top guy at Ferrari. I think he is up for the job, it is a strong team, good drivers, good engines, there is a lot to succeed on he will have 2023 to 'prove' himself, then 2024 and 2025 they should be in the thick of championship battles, and be completely prepared for 2025. Manage that and a long tennure is at hand, failt and be gone sometime 2024.



#359 OvDrone

OvDrone
  • Member

  • 16,115 posts
  • Joined: January 13

Posted 13 December 2022 - 10:08

Very uninspiring.

As much charisma as a brick. Oh well.


I completely disagree.

I remember seeing him, for example, in DTS being a cool ‘you can’t hang with us’ vibe and totally destroying Guenther, Abiteboul, Horner with snarky witty af comments.

Fully believe in him.

Advertisement

#360 KWSN - DSM

KWSN - DSM
  • Member

  • 35,982 posts
  • Joined: January 03

Posted 13 December 2022 - 10:10

I completely disagree.

I remember seeing him, for example, in DTS being a cool ‘you can’t hang with us’ vibe and totally destroying Guenther, Abiteboul, Horner with snarky witty af comments.

Fully believe in him.

 

Except for your dig at Steiner I agree (this said as a Steiner fan-boy).



#361 SophieB

SophieB
  • RC Forum Host

  • 24,465 posts
  • Joined: July 12

Posted 13 December 2022 - 10:12

He was pretty interesting to hear talking about Wolff in that New Yorker profile too. I think at the very least we’re in for some good sound bites in future interviews.



#362 InSearchOfThe

InSearchOfThe
  • Member

  • 2,622 posts
  • Joined: June 10

Posted 13 December 2022 - 10:18

Probably discussed here already, but is LeClerc that much of a handful that Vasseur is the only person that can control him?
Seems odd. Ferrari are a soap opera. Some things never change...

#363 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 9,683 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 13 December 2022 - 10:28

Probably discussed here already, but is LeClerc that much of a handful that Vasseur is the only person that can control him?
Seems odd. Ferrari are a soap opera. Some things never change...


Lol. No. Leclerc is not even a slight problem at Ferrari.

The pit wall and their lack of vision, prowess, engagement and intelligence are the huge issue.

#364 Baddoer

Baddoer
  • Member

  • 3,512 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 13 December 2022 - 10:34

Vasseur is a tough cookie. Unlike his predecessor, he is colder. If he has his hand on an adversary's throat, he will squeeze.



#365 ConsiderAndGo

ConsiderAndGo
  • Member

  • 9,683 posts
  • Joined: May 09

Posted 13 December 2022 - 10:50

Vasseur is a tough cookie. Unlike his predecessor, he is colder. If he has his hand on an adversary's throat, he will squeeze.


Any examples of him doing that career to date? I genuinely don’t know.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 13 December 2022 - 10:50.


#366 dia6olo

dia6olo
  • Member

  • 2,948 posts
  • Joined: February 20

Posted 13 December 2022 - 10:55

To be honest, I feel that F1 teams are such massive organisations these days that the effect of the Team Principle role is a bit overstated by the fans and media. Of course, they have an organisational (and political) role…but I expect Ferrari to be pretty much in the same position next season. Maybe long term he can have an effect if he brings in the right people. Not sure if it’s a DTS effect, but they seem to be more of a media character than anything else these days. Wolff and Horner, for example…I bet the average DTS viewer hasn’t got a clue what their roles are. Steiner didn’t get anywhere near the attention when he was at Jaguar, before the whole DTS ‘focksmash’ stuff. The fact that many were calling for Steiner to get the Ferrari gig says it all.

 

As a Ferrari fan I’d be much more excited if they’d hired (for example) some new engineers from Mercedes or Redbull, or overhauled their strategy team.

Exactly this, there's a huge team behind all TP's and they are the key players not the TP.

The TP's of course have an important role but ultimately just like a football team manager, it's the hierarchy that mostly dictate the players a TP/manager has at his disposal and the "players" that mostly dictate the results.



#367 SCUDmissile

SCUDmissile
  • Member

  • 8,727 posts
  • Joined: May 11

Posted 13 December 2022 - 11:14

As long as he has somebody above him to protect him from the corporate higher ups, and he makes changes to the strategy team then I am happy.

We know what happened last time Ferrari had a french TP.

Edited by SCUDmissile, 13 December 2022 - 11:15.


#368 MKSixer

MKSixer
  • Member

  • 3,479 posts
  • Joined: November 14

Posted 13 December 2022 - 11:15

Is Vasseur that bad?

No matter how good Fred might be, their Strat team is horrible and can sink the whole enterprise.  See 2022.



#369 Enzoluis

Enzoluis
  • Member

  • 2,135 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 13 December 2022 - 11:58

No matter how good Fred might be, their Strat team is horrible and can sink the whole enterprise.  See 2022.

 

The only problem that Vasseur cannot fix is if the engine that Binotto leaves can be fixed recovering power and reliability. Everything else can be fixed with a bit of intelligence and power if the engine do not work Ferrari will lose until 2026.



#370 Ali623

Ali623
  • Member

  • 3,521 posts
  • Joined: March 18

Posted 13 December 2022 - 12:16

I actually think Fred will be far better in the Team Principal role than Binotto was to be honest, his CV is actually pretty good.

 

He seems to manage drivers pretty well, particularly Leclerc only has positive comments about him. He also doesn't seem to bow down to his employer - left Renault at the end of 2016 because he said they wouldn't be able to win without similar investment to the top teams, and wouldn't you know, he was right...

 

Also, considering where Sauber were when he took over mid 2017, he has genuinely taken them into a much better place.



#371 Raest

Raest
  • Member

  • 983 posts
  • Joined: August 14

Posted 13 December 2022 - 12:33

The only problem that Vasseur cannot fix is if the engine that Binotto leaves can be fixed recovering power and reliability. Everything else can be fixed with a bit of intelligence and power if the engine do not work Ferrari will lose until 2026.

It's extremely disingenuous to blame Binotto for the engine when a) he was upfront that the development path chose was the riskier one with higher potential but teething problems and b) everyone applauded him for taking the riskier path at the time. It's a lot better to have an unreliable but fast engine than a weak reliable one. Reliability issues can be addressed, design issues can't



#372 RedRabbit

RedRabbit
  • Member

  • 3,179 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 13 December 2022 - 12:46

Exactly this, there's a huge team behind all TP's and they are the key players not the TP.
The TP's of course have an important role but ultimately just like a football team manager, it's the hierarchy that mostly dictate the players a TP/manager has at his disposal and the "players" that mostly dictate the results.


You're underestimating the influence of the TP here. It's their job to directly manage the race weekend. It's not a coincidence that some are more successful than others.

#373 Enzoluis

Enzoluis
  • Member

  • 2,135 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 13 December 2022 - 13:00

It's extremely disingenuous to blame Binotto for the engine when a) he was upfront that the development path chose was the riskier one with higher potential but teething problems and b) everyone applauded him for taking the riskier path at the time. It's a lot better to have an unreliable but fast engine than a weak reliable one. Reliability issues can be addressed, design issues can't

 

I'm just stating a reality. The future of Ferrari, and then the future of Vasseur, depends on the solutions to the engine problems. I agree with the choice of search power and then reliability if reliability is possible. Binotto had two years to develop that engine, and as of late 2022, we were still running underpowered. I hope the engine can be fixed soon.



#374 Hellenic tifosi

Hellenic tifosi
  • Member

  • 6,564 posts
  • Joined: January 99

Posted 13 December 2022 - 13:12

Regarding the engine, noone can really blame Binotto for searching performance. I think the general consensus here was that losing a championship through reliability hurts muss less than losing it due to lack of speed.

 

Concerning strategy, the main problem last year wasn't strategy in itself (although it obviously wasn't without problems!), and for which the TP has minimal responsibilty, but mostly the objectives and priorities given to the strat team. Obviously, the TP is directly responsible for the latter!



#375 ANF

ANF
  • Member

  • 29,055 posts
  • Joined: April 12

Posted 13 December 2022 - 13:16

You're underestimating the influence of the TP here. It's their job to directly manage the race weekend. It's not a coincidence that some are more successful than others.

And it's got to be hard to be a successful team principal when you're staying at the factory to oversee the development of next year's car.

#376 Raest

Raest
  • Member

  • 983 posts
  • Joined: August 14

Posted 13 December 2022 - 13:33

I'm just stating a reality. The future of Ferrari, and then the future of Vasseur, depends on the solutions to the engine problems. I agree with the choice of search power and then reliability if reliability is possible. Binotto had two years to develop that engine, and as of late 2022, we were still running underpowered. I hope the engine can be fixed soon.

Two years, having to start virtually from scratch as the previous concept, developed over 4-5 years, was not adhering to the spirit of the regulations (with 2022 ending thought I should go for the understatement of the year). I am extremely pleased that they were able to have such a good engine ready at the beginning of the season, despite the massive disadvantage. They almost matched Honda and surpassed Mercedes with a detuned engine.



#377 Ijsman

Ijsman
  • Member

  • 1,066 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 13 December 2022 - 13:41

No matter how good Fred might be, their Strat team is horrible and can sink the whole enterprise.  See 2022.

Let's hope that's where Vasseur's first changes will take place.



#378 pacificquay

pacificquay
  • Member

  • 6,227 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 13 December 2022 - 13:44

Well this shows Leclerc is running Ferrari now.



#379 gillesfan76

gillesfan76
  • Member

  • 9,280 posts
  • Joined: July 16

Posted 13 December 2022 - 14:00

Well this shows Leclerc is running Ferrari now.

 

Binotto couldn’t run the team and Vasseur seems to be a good fit. He co-founded ART which won several GP2 championships. He’s not a wind bag, he’s calm and he can lead. I think also helps that he’s not Italian and he won’t be afraid bringing the team into line. I think he will do well. While he certainly knows Leclerc well, I think also obvious that Leclerc has to deliver too. If Sainz manages to be consistently quicker than Leclerc, no doubt it will be Sainz that will be the team’s focus. Binotto got his nose too much out of joint when Leclerc would rant over the radio and say things that criticised Ferrari. Binotto was too much about protecting the Ferrari brand. I don’t think Vasseur gives two ***** about that as much as ultimate results that will speak far more positively for the Ferrari brand than the verbalising from a red mist affected driver who has suffered because the team has ****** up numerous times.



Advertisement

#380 Enzoluis

Enzoluis
  • Member

  • 2,135 posts
  • Joined: August 00

Posted 13 December 2022 - 14:01

Regarding the engine, noone can really blame Binotto for searching performance. I think the general consensus here was that losing a championship through reliability hurts muss less than losing it due to lack of speed.

 

 

But Ferrari ended the year being slow with a detuned engine.



#381 Claudius

Claudius
  • Member

  • 5,210 posts
  • Joined: December 02

Posted 13 December 2022 - 14:05

On the plus side, this is very good for Leclerc who will be prioritised, probably from the off.

 

Too early to know if that is the case.



#382 pacificquay

pacificquay
  • Member

  • 6,227 posts
  • Joined: March 07

Posted 13 December 2022 - 14:19

Also worth saluting Gazetta for having this story absolutely on the button many weeks ago, great piece of journalism.



#383 IrvTheSwerve

IrvTheSwerve
  • Member

  • 4,982 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 13 December 2022 - 14:27

You're underestimating the influence of the TP here. It's their job to directly manage the race weekend. It's not a coincidence that some are more successful than others.

 

Genuine question then, what exactly do they influence?

 

All strategy and technical issues are dealt with by the senior team members at the track. I doubt Wolff or Horner make any decisions that ultimately affect the day-to-day running of the race weekend. From what I can see, their role at the race weekend is almost purely media-driven with political meetings with the FIA/F1, etc., on a much larger scale than the micro-management of the team. You could argue that they can sway decisions a bit, via the media, however this came to a head during 2021 and was rightly largely stamped out.



#384 RedRabbit

RedRabbit
  • Member

  • 3,179 posts
  • Joined: August 12

Posted 13 December 2022 - 15:16

Genuine question then, what exactly do they influence?

All strategy and technical issues are dealt with by the senior team members at the track. I doubt Wolff or Horner make any decisions that ultimately affect the day-to-day running of the race weekend. From what I can see, their role at the race weekend is almost purely media-driven with political meetings with the FIA/F1, etc., on a much larger scale than the micro-management of the team. You could argue that they can sway decisions a bit, via the media, however this came to a head during 2021 and was rightly largely stamped out.


You're swayed by how much more visible some TPs are. They need to co-ordinate everything. There's a reason why some teams are more successful than others, despite having similar levels of resources and personnel.

#385 Ramon69

Ramon69
  • Member

  • 1,373 posts
  • Joined: June 17

Posted 13 December 2022 - 15:19

Time will tell if he's good, but right now it seems like an upgrade from Binotto, although in all honesty, a lot of people on the grid would seem like an upgrade after him! Not surprised about the rumour turning out to be true.



#386 IrvTheSwerve

IrvTheSwerve
  • Member

  • 4,982 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 13 December 2022 - 15:46

You're swayed by how much more visible some TPs are. They need to co-ordinate everything. There's a reason why some teams are more successful than others, despite having similar levels of resources and personnel.

 

What do they co-ordinate at the circuit?



#387 Vesuvius

Vesuvius
  • Member

  • 14,150 posts
  • Joined: August 09

Posted 13 December 2022 - 16:28

Also worth saluting Gazetta for having this story absolutely on the button many weeks ago, great piece of journalism.


I think Leo Turrini was the first to write it a day or two earlier than Gazzetta.

#388 FLB

FLB
  • Member

  • 29,440 posts
  • Joined: February 01

Posted 13 December 2022 - 17:30

Also worth saluting Gazetta for having this story absolutely on the button many weeks ago, great piece of journalism.

Jean Alesi called the paper a palla when it published the story (i.e. that it was only worth being scrunched into a ball, to be thrown away)...



#389 steferrari

steferrari
  • Member

  • 1,559 posts
  • Joined: October 09

Posted 13 December 2022 - 17:38

We'll see what happens.

 

For now, welcome to Ferrari Fred, and good luck.  :)



#390 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 3,818 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 13 December 2022 - 20:47

On the plus side, this is very good for Leclerc who will be prioritised, probably from the off.


Which by proxy would be good for the whole team.

#391 vlado

vlado
  • Member

  • 3,818 posts
  • Joined: September 06

Posted 13 December 2022 - 20:48

Well this shows Leclerc is running Ferrari now.


It shows that someone important at Ferrari recognizes talent.

#392 Sterzo

Sterzo
  • Member

  • 4,957 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 13 December 2022 - 22:05

What do they co-ordinate at the circuit?

I think you're probably right to suggest it's not a lot. The team principal role is huge, and crucial to success, but if they do their jobs correctly they should have little need to intervene during the race weekend. Their job is to organise everything such that it will run smoothly without them being hands-on once the team reaches the circuit. No doubt there will be crises from time to time, or a desire to invoke the authority of the boss to swap the drivers (for example), but generally they should have little more than a watching brief.



#393 Alfisti

Alfisti
  • Member

  • 39,658 posts
  • Joined: December 99

Posted 14 December 2022 - 02:38

I'd argue f1 team principles are far more hands on than any other similar ceo type role in the corporate world.

#394 Kilted Wanderer

Kilted Wanderer
  • Member

  • 1,160 posts
  • Joined: September 04

Posted 14 December 2022 - 09:22

I'd argue f1 team principles are far more hands on than any other similar ceo type role in the corporate world.

Ah, but if F1 teams had better principles, we wouldn't see so many changes of Team Principals, and I'm not sure corporate CEOs have much better principles than F1 Team Principals either...

 

 ;)



#395 IrvTheSwerve

IrvTheSwerve
  • Member

  • 4,982 posts
  • Joined: July 15

Posted 14 December 2022 - 10:07

I think you're probably right to suggest it's not a lot. The team principal role is huge, and crucial to success, but if they do their jobs correctly they should have little need to intervene during the race weekend. Their job is to organise everything such that it will run smoothly without them being hands-on once the team reaches the circuit. No doubt there will be crises from time to time, or a desire to invoke the authority of the boss to swap the drivers (for example), but generally they should have little more than a watching brief.

 

Exactly. The thought that they 'co-ordinate everything' at the weekend is far-fetched. They are carted around with a PR rep to speak with various media and sometimes FIA/F1 officials and that is it, on a normal weekend. Of course, if there is something such as a driver swap or the US05 Michelin-gate scandal then they get involved. Management below them will sort things such as timetables and meetings. I've seen Toto sitting in on strategy meetings but he obviously doesn't have any real input on that. The bulk of their 'real' job is at the factory doing the relatively mundane stuff, such as hiring senior managers and drivers. Even then, they've more than likely got management teams that look after the majority of that.