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MBS: FIA had $20m financial deficit, court case with halo inventor [edited]


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#1 mariner

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 14:19

According  to this interview the FIA didn't know it had a $20M "black hole" in it's accounts.

 

https://www.autospor...aches/10408366/

 

The usual words accountants quote in situations like this are "governance " and "due diligence"  - If the FIA is so bad with it's own accounts what makes it qualified to judge the F1 teams financial reporting  , be it Red Bull or anybody else?



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#2 jcbc3

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 14:51

They knew. It's the usual tactic anybody coming into a company says. "Oh, we didn't know it was this bad [so when we underperform we will blame it on the previous regime]"



#3 Beri

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 15:35

Imagine a team having such a black hole in its budget cap reports..



#4 mclarensmps

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 15:54

Misused the 100m they stole from McLaren ages ago, to this day. 

Of course I'm still salty. 



#5 ANF

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 16:25

Looks like that patent case has been ongoing since March 2020.
https://www.courtlis...de-lautomobile/
https://www.worldipr...halo-suit-21068
 
And unless I'm mistaken, this is the patent in question: https://patents.goog.../US7494178B2/en



#6 Risil

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 16:29

Never mind, just send out a load of FIA gala invites to people you know can't come and rake in the fines.



#7 FLB

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 17:30

Misused the 100m they stole from McLaren ages ago, to this day. 

Of course I'm still salty. 

Guess why the current regime was elected, instead of those who represented continuity with the old regime? Nobody knew how much money was going where, but everybody could see it being spent.

 

(And seemingly primarily towards activities related to circuit racing, while the mobility clubs and the rallying people were not seeing a lot coming towards them)


Edited by FLB, 06 December 2022 - 17:34.


#8 MKSixer

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 17:33

Another strike against one of the most unaccountable organizations on the planet.


Edited by MKSixer, 06 December 2022 - 17:33.


#9 CSF

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Posted 06 December 2022 - 18:07

A month ago it was cleared eh.  :kiss:



#10 Afterburner

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 02:29

$20M and they still look like pros...

#11 John B

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 04:36

"No forgiveness......"

#12 loki

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 08:02

PSA:

The initials MBS in most parts of the English speaking world refer to one Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud, the Crown Prince and recently appointed Prime Minister of Saudi Arabia.  Or mortgage backed securities if one is a financial type.  Either way not FIA dude.



#13 PayasYouRace

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 08:17

PSA:
The initials MBS in most parts of the English speaking world refer to one Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud, the Crown Prince and recently appointed Prime Minister of Saudi Arabia. Or mortgage backed securities if one is a financial type. Either way not FIA dude.

This is a motor racing forum, we all know who it’s referring to.

#14 loki

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 08:18

Missing the point.  Entirely.



#15 PayasYouRace

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 08:22

Missing the point. Entirely.


What is your point then?

#16 absinthedude

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 11:32

I am prepared to cut MBS a little slack in that it's highly plausible that he didn't know about these issues until he sat in the president's office for his first day at the job. I'm sure that they've caused him headaches and furthered the need to generate more revenue from the likes of Formula 1.

 

Still sceptical that he's doing a good job, but prepared to cut him that slack. 



#17 BRG

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 12:17

I am prepared to cut MBS a little slack in that it's highly plausible that he didn't know about these issues until he sat in the president's office for his first day at the job. 

 

Even if he did know about them beforehand, it was still none of his doing, so he is surely blameless here?  Especially if he has cleared u the mess left by his predecessor.



#18 Risil

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 12:19

PSA:

The initials MBS in most parts of the English speaking world refer to one Mohammed bin Salman Al Saud, the Crown Prince and recently appointed Prime Minister of Saudi Arabia.  Or mortgage backed securities if one is a financial type.  Either way not FIA dude.

 

I know, I just find it funny

 

Well, not the mortgage backed securities, I've heard enough for a lifetime about financial black holes caused by those.



#19 BRG

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Posted 07 December 2022 - 12:37

Maybe we should dub him MoBeSu instead



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#20 10kDA

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 17:08

"... And in response, FIA representatives said 'Who's counting? BWAAHAHAHAHA...'"

 

Simpsons-Burns-Smithers-Cash.gif


Edited by 10kDA, 09 December 2022 - 17:11.


#21 kumo7

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Posted 11 December 2022 - 12:06

I read this court report, in a half way, but it reads serious.

 

1) why should FIA tell the patent holder to give up his right to the patent for no costs?

2) how should this patent holder just accept this claim?

3) on which earth you have those power that walk over the legal right?

 

Names were names, such as Mercedes... I had respected the silver arrows as a fine player. But as is, they are the worst.



#22 BRG

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Posted 11 December 2022 - 16:26

I read this court report, in a half way, but it reads serious.

 

1) why should FIA tell the patent holder to give up his right to the patent for no costs?

2) how should this patent holder just accept this claim?

3) on which earth you have those power that walk over the legal right?

 

Names were names, such as Mercedes... I had respected the silver arrows as a fine player. But as is, they are the worst.

You are pre-supposing that the plaintiff is in the right.  He may well have been, but suing the FIA, FOM, all the F1 teams (in two forms in the case of Red Bull) and Charles Leclerc (as an individual for some reason) seems like they maybe weren't so sure of themselves after all and decided to attack everyone they had ever hear of in motor sport.

 

But nobody to do with Formula E for some reason although FE also adopted the halo.  As did F2, F3 and others. Not to mention Indycar under the guise of the 'aeroscreen'.  



#23 Sterzo

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Posted 11 December 2022 - 21:50

You are pre-supposing that the plaintiff is in the right.  He may well have been, but suing the FIA, FOM, all the F1 teams (in two forms in the case of Red Bull) and Charles Leclerc (as an individual for some reason) seems like they maybe weren't so sure of themselves after all and decided to attack everyone they had ever hear of in motor sport.

Exactly. What is more, the Texas court quickly ruled the case against most of those worthies non-existent. Meanwhile, Mercedes have filed a petition to cancel Nygaard’s Halo patent. At a guess, they think he's patented something you can't patent, perhaps a concept too general in nature. Rather as though someone patented the idea of a crash helmet, and expected to earn a mint. After all, the halo is no more than a roll-over bar such as has existed for decades.

 

But let's all blame "the FIA" anyway, before the court ruling.



#24 Bloggsworth

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Posted 11 December 2022 - 23:17

That patent must have been posted in the USA, they'll patent anything. Given that vehicles up to, and including the 40s had central  strengthening pillars in their widscreens, it's not exactly new and could be considered "Prior knowledge."


Edited by Bloggsworth, 11 December 2022 - 23:20.


#25 Widefoot2

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Posted 12 December 2022 - 03:10

Exactly. What is more, the Texas court quickly ruled the case against most of those worthies non-existent. Meanwhile, Mercedes have filed a petition to cancel Nygaard’s Halo patent. At a guess, they think he's patented something you can't patent, perhaps a concept too general in nature. Rather as though someone patented the idea of a crash helmet, and expected to earn a mint. After all, the halo is no more than a roll-over bar such as has existed for decades.

 

But let's all blame "the FIA" anyway, before the court ruling.

I've been wondering about that too. There's a huge range of roll bar configurations, some which include a central bar, and would be known to those skilled in the trade.

 



#26 kumo7

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Posted 12 December 2022 - 09:05

Yes all of those that have been spoken could be true.

But for an individual to bring all the parties to the court
for no reason is just nothing more than a waist of time. Could be misunderstanding or short coming from the side of Mr.N, but if so the energy and the resources that he put in just absolutely makes no sense.

As he kicked in since 2004, makes it very serious.

Also the record on F1 defendants reaction makes me discombobulated, to say the least. Why should this documents by US court produced where in it says that Mr.N has the patent, that Mr.N and the defendants took time to meet, and also be recorded that Mr.N has been told by the F1 defendants that he should just vanish by giving up his right on the patent?

At this point …. Very strange.

If the court record were written that the F1 defendants told him that Mr.N has no patent or his patent is to vague and so forth, then I can see the situation differently…

Yes I am a bit disappointed.

Edited by kumo7, 12 December 2022 - 09:07.


#27 BRG

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Posted 12 December 2022 - 09:42

This may have been taken up by a law firm on a 'No win, no fee' basis, in the hope that (as it seems to have turned out) there would be some settlement.  The court document is of course prepared by the plaintiff's side, hence all the stuff in there is HIS version of events. not proven fact.  That is what the court would have had to decide.



#28 Nemo1965

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Posted 12 December 2022 - 10:28

Interesting. I immediately thought of this

https://www.arnoldcl...rtant-invention

Regarding the HALO being just a pimped rollbar... I don't know. I think it is possible for the plaintiff to prove that the shape, the angle and the placement are an unique design (Sceptic? Think of a lighter. They have been there since the invention of the sigaret. Never the less the Zippo is a copyrighter product, regarding the design. Even the sound it makes is a trademark )

Edited by Nemo1965, 12 December 2022 - 15:05.


#29 kumo7

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Posted 12 December 2022 - 10:43

Interesting. I immediately thought of this

Why Volvo gave away the patent for their most important invention

Regarding the HALO being just a pimped rollbar... I don't know. I think it is possible for the plaintiff to prove that the shape, the angle and the placement are a unique design (Sceptic? Think of a lighter. They have been there since the invention of the sigaret. Never the less the Zippo is a copyrighter product, regarding the design. Even the sound it makes is a trademark )


Thanx m, but could not look into the file…

#30 Nemo1965

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Posted 12 December 2022 - 15:06

Thanx m, but could not look into the file…


The link works now.

#31 Sterzo

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Posted 12 December 2022 - 21:18

Regarding the HALO being just a pimped rollbar... I don't know. I think it is possible for the plaintiff to prove that the shape, the angle and the placement are an unique design (Sceptic? Think of a lighter. They have been there since the invention of the sigaret. Never the less the Zippo is a copyrighter product, regarding the design. Even the sound it makes is a trademark )

Agreed that we don't knoiw whether it's a valid patent or not - that's to be decided by the court. But it looks as though Mercedes at least believe they have grounds to challenge it.
 



#32 Reinmuster

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Posted 13 December 2022 - 05:52

According  to this interview the FIA didn't know it had a $20M "black hole" in it's accounts.

 

https://www.autospor...aches/10408366/

 

The usual words accountants quote in situations like this are "governance " and "due diligence"  - If the FIA is so bad with it's own accounts what makes it qualified to judge the F1 teams financial reporting  , be it Red Bull or anybody else?

 

FIA slowly become FIFA. :smoking:



#33 BRG

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Posted 13 December 2022 - 10:28

FIA slowly become FIFA. :smoking:

So you think the FIA is getting better then?