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Exploding F1 Ticket Prices (at least in the U.S.)


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#1 AustinF1

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 18:23

Last year there was a lot of talk here locally about COTA's 2022 F1 ticket prices having gone up significantly compared to 2021. There has also been a lot of talk about Miami and Vegas's high prices.

 

Now COTA has drastically increased ticket and parking prices again, for the 2023 USGP.

 

Facebook COTA Ticket Exchange members are posting today about the new PSL ticket and parking bills they just got. People are saying their bills have gone up as much as 70% for 2023, and many of them are saying they're done with it all. One guy I know paid $1300 last year for T15 and just got his bill for more than $1800 for 2023. He emailed COTA about it and they said the prices were correct, and that he should probably be happy because these are the 'discounted' PSL prices and that public-sale tickets will be priced about 40% higher than that. One lady posted this ...

 

319035706_10167617434610392_263723118886

 

... so I dug a little and found some 2023 price ranges on COTA's website.
 
3-day GA: $475+ (compared to 2022's $330)
3-day T1: $900 - $1125+
T2: $990 - $1050+
T4: same
T6: $1050 - $1125+
T9: $500 - $600+
T12: $540 - $780+
T15: $875 - $1170+
T19: $575 - $650+
3-day Parking in general lots - $275+ (up from $195)
3-day Parking in Lot A & other 'preferred' lots - $515 (up from ~$150)
 
$475 for 3-day GA is insane, and for $25 more, you can have the T9 GS, which is one of the best out there imho. T9 being the cheapest GS is just bizarre.
 
FWIW, COTA's main rationale for these price increases seems to be based on "added value of the sprint weekend", which is just laughable, imho. But hey, COTA gonna COTA. It's not like they're going to lower the prices next year if there's no sprint race.
 
So, I'm sure some of you attend GPs close to you. Have you seen any crazy price increases like these?

Edited by AustinF1, 10 December 2022 - 17:33.


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#2 Risil

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 19:06

Burroughsian thread title

 

https://en.wikipedia...t_That_Exploded



#3 AustinF1

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 19:34

The prices for 2023 in Montreal, for example, are strikingly lower than COTA's.

 

In Montreal, you can get this seat for about half of what a COTA 3-Day GA ticket will cost with taxes and fees. Montreal's most expensive seat is $732. That's less than 1/3 the cost of COTA's most expensive seat, and in fact doesn't cost much more than a GA ticket at COTA. Crazy.

 

34-1550x800-1-775x400-c.jpg

 

You can seat a family of 4 in the Family GS in 2023 for slightly less than what 1 COTA GA ticket costs. I'd much rather take that huge difference in ticket prices and put it toward another awesome Montreal experience than spend $2200+ on 4 GA tickets to Southeast Travis County and the inevitable logistical shitshow that comes with it. 


Edited by AustinF1, 08 December 2022 - 21:58.


#4 Risil

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 19:38

Silverstone 3-day GA is something like £320. Bit lower than Austin but you have to put up with Sunday tickets being sold out more or less instantly, so I've no doubt they could put the prices up higher if they wanted to.



#5 ANF

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 19:49

PSL? Is that short for personal seat licence, i.e. a ticket for a certain seat?



#6 AustinF1

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 19:58

PSL? Is that short for personal seat licence, i.e. a ticket for a certain seat?

Yep. It's basically a ticket to buy a ticket. But the prices I'm talking about are not for the PSLs. They're for the actual 2023 tickets.



#7 TomNokoe

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 20:06

This will be the first time since 2014 I'm not going to Silverstone because I refuse to pay their high prices.

 

I'm glad I attended races last year because the rush for 2023 tickets is crazy. So many circuits are already sold out. The promoters are well aware of F1's still-growing popularity and so are ever-braver with their pricing.


Edited by TomNokoe, 08 December 2022 - 20:08.


#8 pdac

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 21:18

If and when some circuits put their prices right up and achieve good uptake, the pressure will be on the rest to follow. Either the promoters, themselves, will see the opportunity to make more money or else FOM will demand higher sanctioning fees, suggesting that the promoters increase their prices to cover the additional cost. It makes total sense to those who are running the business.



#9 jonpollak

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 21:46

Burroughsian thread title

https://en.wikipedia...t_That_Exploded

Look Ma, They exploded the stands on the Back Straight …
D2303-C9-D-30-B9-4257-A730-D06-AF9-B2191
Jp

#10 krapmeister

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 22:06

Australian GP tickets have also gone up quite a bit, and the event is already pretty much sold out for the weekend. Sunday grandstand seats were approaching $500 iirc...

#11 RacingFan10

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 22:08

I guess you gotta enjoy capitalism, for the good and the bad



#12 AustinF1

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 22:36

Just saw these FB posts ...

 

 

 It's cheaper for me to fly round-trip from Seattle to Paris to attend the 24 Hours of LeMans in the ACO grandstands than it is to travel to and from Austin to get GA tickets and parking for the USGP.

 

PSL Main Grandstand for 2 $2,100 for 2022, 2023 cost for same 2 is $3,000. Parking went from $150ish to $515, ridiculous.

 

I got the e-mail from COTA a few hours ago. I hate to say it but I think my favorite sport is now firmly out of reach for me.

 

The fact that we in Austin can fly to Montreal for the Canadian GP, get a hotel, and get reserved seats for an amount that's even in the same ballpark as staying here to go sit in GA at the USGP is remarkable. And then when you look at it through the lens of someone who has to fly here for the USGP and is comparing the overall cost to other events they can attend, that's a really compelling perspective imho.


Edited by AustinF1, 09 December 2022 - 03:21.


#13 JimmyClark

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Posted 08 December 2022 - 22:51

I've paid £125 for a 3 day grandstand seat at Bahrain, which isn't bad at all. Though I have noticed European races' prices are rising pretty quickly. I'm awaiting Imola's ticket release with trepidation...

Edited by JimmyClark, 08 December 2022 - 22:51.


#14 Dan333SP

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 02:33

The prices for 2023 in Montreal, for example, are strikingly lower than COTA's.

 

In Montreal, you can get this seat for about half of what a COTA 3-Day GA ticket will cost with taxes and fees. Montreal's most expensive seat is $732. That's less than 1/3 the cost of COTA's most expensive seat, and in fact doesn't cost much more than a GA ticket at COTA. Crazy.

 

34-1550x800-1-775x400-c.jpg

 

You can seat a family of 4 in the Family GS in 2023 for slightly less than what 1 COTA GA ticket costs. I'd much rather take that huge difference in ticket prices and put it toward another awesome Montreal experience than spend $2200+ on 4 GA tickets to Southeast Travis County and the inevitable logistical shitshow that comes with it. 

 

I sit in Grandstand 24 (on the right of the above photo) in Montreal and have for 20+ years, the ticket prices have gone up gradually but nothing like what COTA is seeing. I attended the inaugural COTA race and while it was fun and the track is a much better place to walk around to watch racing cars than Montreal, the entire weekend experience doesn't measure up even at the same price so no way would I ever consider returning with those current prices. 

 

My big fear is the Canadian GP organizers realizing they would still easily sell out the weekend even with doubled ticket prices thanks to increasing popularity and price pressures from the US races. There is a point where I'd have to say no more and just stick to endurance races. 



#15 Afterburner

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 02:41

I wonder how much of this is due to the influx of new, younger fans who have no concept of what prices for these events should be and are simply just willing to pay whatever it costs. Anecdotal evidence indicates to me that Gen Z seems to be much more loose with its money when it comes to events, festivals, social gatherings etc. than millennials or generations prior. I thought about this when reading about the Iowa IndyCar race increasing its ticket prices too.

 

Out of curiosity, do the USGP tickets come with concert access? If so, who's playing the race?



#16 AustinF1

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 03:03

I sit in Grandstand 24 (on the right of the above photo) in Montreal and have for 20+ years, the ticket prices have gone up gradually but nothing like what COTA is seeing. I attended the inaugural COTA race and while it was fun and the track is a much better place to walk around to watch racing cars than Montreal, the entire weekend experience doesn't measure up even at the same price so no way would I ever consider returning with those current prices. 

 

My big fear is the Canadian GP organizers realizing they would still easily sell out the weekend even with doubled ticket prices thanks to increasing popularity and price pressures from the US races. There is a point where I'd have to say no more and just stick to endurance races. 

Agree 100%with all of this...and I sat in that GS for my first ever F1 session. FP3 2010. Nice spot. On Sunday I was at T3 (GS 12?), looking back toward the garages. Great weekend.


Edited by AustinF1, 09 December 2022 - 18:11.


#17 AustinF1

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 03:07

I wonder how much of this is due to the influx of new, younger fans who have no concept of what prices for these events should be and are simply just willing to pay whatever it costs. Anecdotal evidence indicates to me that Gen Z seems to be much more loose with its money when it comes to events, festivals, social gatherings etc. than millennials or generations prior. I thought about this when reading about the Iowa IndyCar race increasing its ticket prices too.

 

Out of curiosity, do the USGP tickets come with concert access? If so, who's playing the race?

Yeah the FOMO and YOLO is very strong in that Gen. They seem to think paying any amount is fine as long as they get to be at the show.

 

USGP tickets do come with concert access, and there are no concert-ony tickets sold. You must have a race ticket to attend whatever concert there is that night. Pretty clever of them, eh? Haven't heard yet who will play in 2023, but you can bet the farm that there'll be two or more big acts to help with the race attendance numbers.



#18 prty

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 07:08

I guess you gotta enjoy capitalism, for the good and the bad


Well, in capitalism there's the offer and demand aspect. If they set those prices, and people still buy tickets, then it means they have that value.

#19 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 07:27

This will be the first time since 2014 I'm not going to Silverstone because I refuse to pay their high prices.

 

I'm glad I attended races last year because the rush for 2023 tickets is crazy. So many circuits are already sold out. The promoters are well aware of F1's still-growing popularity and so are ever-braver with their pricing.

Same, I used to attend Silverstone nearly every year but I haven’t been for about 3 or 4 years now. I’m not paying £300+ for GA, especially with the awful views at Silverstone. It’s £129 for GA just for Friday! I’m sure in the early 2000s I used to pay £100ish for 3 days GA and every other year I would pay £250-300ish for a grandstand ticket. It’s sad, but I don’t think I’ll visit there for a GP for a long time. 
 

The cheapest 3 day grandstand ticket left available on the official website is £999 at the moment! I am absolutely bonkers for F1 but I’m not spending a grand (which ends up being 2 grand inevitably as I’m not going on my own) on a GP weekend. Add in hotels, travel and food and you’re looking at £3k easily. The spectacle, IMO, is nowhere near what it used to be before we went hybrid.



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#20 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 07:41

Yeah the FOMO and YOLO is very strong in that Gen. They seem to think paying any amount is fine as long as they get to be at the show..


You gotta be there so you can film it and get those ‘likes’ on the socials man!

Around 10 years ago I went to Spa… we got 3 day GA for £99

Haven’t even looked as to what it would be now, but I don’t
Imagine £99 would even get me parked these days. Especially now the Verstappen Army are in town

#21 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 07:43

The mental thing is - it’s not even a great way to watch the race. You’re there for ‘the atmosphere’ which has widely reported to be dire this year. Sod paying a couple of thousand to stand in a queue for ‘food tokens’, have your view obscured by orange flares, and then have your wife/daughter/girlfriend leered at by boozed up yobs.

No fanks

#22 AustinF1

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 07:49

The mental thing is - it’s not even a great way to watch the race. You’re there for ‘the atmosphere’ which has widely reported to be dire this year. Sod paying a couple of thousand to stand in a queue for ‘food tokens’, have your view obscured by orange flares, and then have your wife/daughter/girlfriend leered at by boozed up yobs.

No fanks

Yeah I'm pretty much done with attending in person, at least until I decide to go somewhere where (a) it's not as expensive, and (b) the customers are valued and treated with respect. Like Montreal or a few others where they do it right. There's a very good chance I'll do Montreal and Indy again, plus 2 or 3 overseas races before I even set foot on COTA soil again.

 

And yeah, the atmosphere and spectacle isn't what it used to be in previous eras, especially at places like COTA. Now, having said that, a racing lineup the likes of which Melbourne puts on every year might go far to make up for F1's lack of personality these days.


Edited by AustinF1, 09 December 2022 - 07:52.


#23 MikeTekRacing

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 08:54

I’ve attended Miami and it was awesome. Super expensive, but fully packed, great facilities and logistics.

#24 pdac

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 09:07

I wonder how much of this is due to the influx of new, younger fans who have no concept of what prices for these events should be and are simply just willing to pay whatever it costs. Anecdotal evidence indicates to me that Gen Z seems to be much more loose with its money when it comes to events, festivals, social gatherings etc. than millennials or generations prior. I thought about this when reading about the Iowa IndyCar race increasing its ticket prices too.

 

Out of curiosity, do the USGP tickets come with concert access? If so, who's playing the race?

 

You could look at it the other way around and say that it may be an influx of new, younger fans are showing what the prices should have been and now everyone is catching up.



#25 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 09:29

Re: the British GP, I've been saying for a long time now that the UK deserves two Grands Prix. Maybe that would ease the situation at Silverstone a bit. Look at what has happened over the last 30 years when there has been a dominant champion...they've always ended up having two races. Schumacher - Nurburgring and Hockenheim. Same with Vettel. Alonso - Valencia and Barcelona...(ignoring the daft 'European GP' title). Hamilton is statistically the greatest driver of all time and has had unprecedented domination, however we've not had the increase in GPs to supply for the demand. Add in to that the fact that the vast majority of teams are based here.

 

Shame that we didn't end up with Donnington and Silverstone. 



#26 IrvTheSwerve

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 09:37

It's an unfortunate fact that professional sports are now extremely expensive to attend. Not 'a bit pricey', but actually out of peoples reach. My wife and I are thankfully fairly comfortable financially...spending £300-400 between us for a GP I would see as expensive, more than enough, but doable. Spending £1-2k though, no thanks. We've seen the same with Welsh rugby - you're lucky to get a ticket below £70 each these days and more likely to pay £100+ for the games that people actually want to see (Six Nations, NZ, SA, Australia, etc.). Just checked the WRU website for Six Nations tickets...Wales v Ireland prices start at £75 (guaranteed to be at the very back of the top tier) (edit: on closer inspection, there is one ticket left at that price, the vast majority are now £200 upwards), Wales v England tickets START at £250 per person!!! (edit: that was one remaining seat on their own. The vast majority are £400-£700). £500-1500 for my wife and I to have an hour and a half of entertainment? No thanks.

 

I can guarantee that the vast majority that do end up going to Silverstone aren't rich, but probably spend a huge proportion of their savings every year on it...which is fair enough, if that's what they want to do...but it's not for me.

 

It's all getting a bit silly now, but people are paying for it...that's the problem. The fact that Silverstone pretty much sells out within the first week (likely only a couple of days in reality) says it all.


Edited by IrvTheSwerve, 09 December 2022 - 09:42.


#27 RacingFan10

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 09:54

Well, in capitalism there's the offer and demand aspect. If they set those prices, and people still buy tickets, then it means they have that value.

 

In this case, unless there's a ticket resale going on, of course.

 

I'm against this completely capitalist view of everything anyway. I think all fans should be able to afford a ticket price and not only the wealthiest ones... offer pelouse stands with low prices or something.


Edited by RacingFan10, 09 December 2022 - 09:54.


#28 JimmyClark

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 09:59

Around 10 years ago I went to Spa… we got 3 day GA for £99
 

 

I paid £70 in 2015 for 3-day GA, I'm pretty sure (from the early bird prices).  

 

I remember that year my train to Belgiim + accommodation in Malmedy + race tickets came to the same price as my (now) wife's Silverstone race day general admission ticket that year. 


Edited by JimmyClark, 09 December 2022 - 10:00.


#29 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 10:00

Indeed. It might be straightforward business to raise your prices as much as you can while still selling out, but it does nothing to democratise the sport. I think it’s short sighted to chase the quick profit. Lower prices, increase the engagement with as many fans as possible, and the money will still flow.

#30 Risil

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 10:49

I wonder how much of this is due to the influx of new, younger fans who have no concept of what prices for these events should be and are simply just willing to pay whatever it costs. Anecdotal evidence indicates to me that Gen Z seems to be much more loose with its money when it comes to events, festivals, social gatherings etc. than millennials or generations prior. I thought about this when reading about the Iowa IndyCar race increasing its ticket prices too.

 

Out of curiosity, do the USGP tickets come with concert access? If so, who's playing the race?

At least in the UK Silverstone has been expensive and sold out for a long time.

 

F1 is of course a very scarce product, and some events attract a lot of people who attend in order to be seen there. As a promoter this is gold. Different crowd though.



#31 Risil

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 10:50

Indeed. It might be straightforward business to raise your prices as much as you can while still selling out, but it does nothing to democratise the sport. I think it’s short sighted to chase the quick profit. Lower prices, increase the engagement with as many fans as possible, and the money will still flow.

The alternative is a Suzuka (or Bayreuth!!) style lottery for tickets, I guess.



#32 BRG

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 11:18

The last F1 Gp that I actually paid for a ticket cost me £5 for GA. Just sayin'...

 

But there is some detachment from reality going on here.  If you can sell out at £X per ticket, why lower your prices?  You can't accommodate any more people, you just make less income.  The idea of all fans being able to afford a ticket is simply nonsense.  Yes, they could afford it but only the same number of people will actually be able to GET a ticket.



#33 Risil

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 11:24

Both nice problems for a promoter to have I think. If it were me I'd split the difference -- make a lottery for GA and the standard grandstand seating, play up the scarcity and stoke the enthusiasm of a multiple of the number of people who will actually get a ticket. Raise the prices on the premium seats and sell the exclusivity.

 

You want to make money but you're also selling the atmosphere (or hot air, at any rate...), so you don't want to price out the people who make it a special event in the first place.



#34 PayasYouRace

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 11:55

The alternative is a Suzuka (or Bayreuth!!) style lottery for tickets, I guess.

That’s certainly an option for when demand is much greater than capacity. But I don’t know if that necessarily applies to the US right now. It’s not necessarily in the OP but the Indycar ticket prices discussion is also playing in my mind.

Still, when demand firmly outnumbers supply, I’m fundamentally against the determining factor being the highest bidder. Like your solution of keeping the elite level prices high, but democratising the basic level.

#35 SenorSjon

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 12:03

I was due to attend Monza 2020 with my wife and a friend, but paying in December for a race in September (over 1k for 3 first chicane tickets), see it cancelled for public acces due to Covid and having to finally pull a creditcard refund to get my money back in December a year later quenched any thirst I had for attending a race.


Edited by SenorSjon, 09 December 2022 - 12:04.


#36 pdac

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 12:46

Indeed. It might be straightforward business to raise your prices as much as you can while still selling out, but it does nothing to democratise the sport. I think it’s short sighted to chase the quick profit. Lower prices, increase the engagement with as many fans as possible, and the money will still flow.

 

I think over the years, in many aspects of life, people have realised that the short-sighted viewpoint is the one that benefits THEM best (maybe it does not benefit the ones that follow, but for the ones in charge, they reap the benefits of short-term thinking). It's ingrained in society now, so it's not about to change without government intervention (the 'nanny state' as some like to call it).


Edited by pdac, 09 December 2022 - 12:47.


#37 Secretariat

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 13:19

Boston to Montreal is a pleasant drive and I cannot imagine spending $1800 on tickets/PSL's. I do wonder how many people leverage themselves to afford to go these events (concerts, races, stick and ball sports and so on)? I wonder if there is any correlation to paying these sorts of prices to poor behavior? As has been mentioned by Afterburner and AustinF1, I wonder if it is a generational thing? Nevertheless, to each their own...i won't spend their money.

 

I suppose I could use the money that a current ticket costs and really go all out in improving the home viewing experience: F1TV subscription, bigger TV, perhaps multiple TVs, super surround sound, a discord, Formula Eats recipes.



#38 dweller23

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 13:33

Meantime, a pretty good grandstand spot for 100th Le Mans 24h race cost me about 150-160 euro (GA + seat on the grandstand at the main straight) + 80 euros for camping spot. I'll go to F1 once the DTS hype dies down.



#39 Sterzo

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 13:44

Ecclestone's altruistic dream of converting F1 into a TV sport has come to pass, and closing the circuit gates to those who can't pay a fortune won't lose the sport its main following. The first GP I attended cost £1.50 for general admission in 1966 (free parking), which equates to £27 now. The last GP I attended (in 2004) was free to me (corporate entertaining)*. I enjoyed being helicoptered in, but the hospitality units blocked out "real" spectators and I was given binocculars so the cars were just about visible.

 

* (No, I didn't award my hosts a contract, and had made that clear to them before accepting the invitation. They said, oh well, come anyway.)



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#40 d246

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 15:58

Meantime, a pretty good grandstand spot for 100th Le Mans 24h race cost me about 150-160 euro (GA + seat on the grandstand at the main straight) + 80 euros for camping spot. I'll go to F1 once the DTS hype dies down.

 

I have been going to races in EU since 1997 (and the odd fly-away) but have decided I bow can't justify the cost (and can't source tickets in seats I want) and generally don't like the sound of the experience over the last couple of years. I too am waiting for the DTS hype to die down and will look at WEC or MotoGP instead meantime.



#41 AustinF1

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 18:27

It's an unfortunate fact that professional sports are now extremely expensive to attend. Not 'a bit pricey', but actually out of peoples reach. My wife and I are thankfully fairly comfortable financially...spending £300-400 between us for a GP I would see as expensive, more than enough, but doable. Spending £1-2k though, no thanks. We've seen the same with Welsh rugby - you're lucky to get a ticket below £70 each these days and more likely to pay £100+ for the games that people actually want to see (Six Nations, NZ, SA, Australia, etc.). Just checked the WRU website for Six Nations tickets...Wales v Ireland prices start at £75 (guaranteed to be at the very back of the top tier) (edit: on closer inspection, there is one ticket left at that price, the vast majority are now £200 upwards), Wales v England tickets START at £250 per person!!! (edit: that was one remaining seat on their own. The vast majority are £400-£700). £500-1500 for my wife and I to have an hour and a half of entertainment? No thanks.

 

I can guarantee that the vast majority that do end up going to Silverstone aren't rich, but probably spend a huge proportion of their savings every year on it...which is fair enough, if that's what they want to do...but it's not for me.

 

It's all getting a bit silly now, but people are paying for it...that's the problem. The fact that Silverstone pretty much sells out within the first week (likely only a couple of days in reality) says it all.

Yep. It's to the point now where I could pay for the tickets, but I could never justify paying such a large amount of money for the tickets.



#42 AustinF1

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 18:39

Indeed. It might be straightforward business to raise your prices as much as you can while still selling out, but it does nothing to democratise the sport. I think it’s short sighted to chase the quick profit. Lower prices, increase the engagement with as many fans as possible, and the money will still flow.

 

At least in the UK Silverstone has been expensive and sold out for a long time.

 

F1 is of course a very scarce product, and some events attract a lot of people who attend in order to be seen there. As a promoter this is gold. Different crowd though.

 

Yes, they could afford it but only the same number of people will actually be able to GET a ticket.

 

There's also another side to this. It's not just increased demand. In the last 5 to 10 years, ticket prices for every US sport, concerts, festivals, and other live events have steadily skyrocketed even when prices of goods and services were relatively stable. I've suspected for a few years that with ticket sales and the ticket aftermarket moving to the internet, it has given brokers, scalpers, etc opportunities to control both the purchase and resale of tickets to a much greater extent than they ever could do before. I started hearing rumors about everyday fans resorting to buying special software just so they'd have a chance vs the brokers and scalpers using their bots. Apparently the bots are able to buy hundreds or even thousands of tickets before the typical user can even get through to a ticket selection or payment screen.
 
This morning I did a quick google search and immediately saw this article, which confirms my worst fears, and reveals how deep it all goes.
 
7 Ways Ticket Brokers Get Tickets – And Why You Have No Chance https://invitemanage...have-no-chance/
 
Here are a couple more recent articles: 

 

Why Ticket Brokers Can Get Taylor Swift Tickets and You Can't https://www.vice.com...nation-monopoly

Resale ticket market leaves fans feeling manipulated and angry https://revealnews.o...-is-this-legal/

 

That’s certainly an option for when demand is much greater than capacity. But I don’t know if that necessarily applies to the US right now. It’s not necessarily in the OP but the Indycar ticket prices discussion is also playing in my mind.

Still, when demand firmly outnumbers supply, I’m fundamentally against the determining factor being the highest bidder. Like your solution of keeping the elite level prices high, but democratising the basic level.

Haven't looked at that yet. Are IndyCar prices rising too?

 

My experience is that all sports and concert ticket prices are through the roof in the U.S. I believe some of the reason for that is increased post-covid demand, and for F1 some of it is a DTS effect which I believe is grossly overestimated. There's something else going on, and I believe the biggest driver is the fundamental change in the way in which tickets are sold initially and on the aftermarket, as is outlined in the article above.


Edited by AustinF1, 09 December 2022 - 19:07.


#43 JimmyClark

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 18:46

The thing is, its not just the tickets - the hotels and flights get inflated very quickly after dates are announced. Not to mention insane prices of food/drink at said circuit, and the ever stricter rules of what you're allowed to bring in (meaning the days of cheap picnics at venues are mostly over). Attending a race weekend outside of your own town is probably £1000+ per person*, at the cheapest end of the scale. That's not an insignifucant amount of money. 

 

*Based on: 

- £150 GA ticket

- £400 x4 nights hotel/camping

- £300 transport

- £150 x3 days food/drink costs


Edited by JimmyClark, 09 December 2022 - 18:46.


#44 Silverstone96

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 20:29

I’ve been attending the British GP since 1996 and also attended various European races between 2002-2015.

The prices for the last 2 years at Silverstone have been very hard to stomach, 2021 was a fantastic day being the first big event post lockdown here in the UK, so much so that I paid the silly prices again for this year but the further price increase for 2023 has meant I’ve finally had to throw the towel in.

The best example I can give is my seat in the village A stand in 2019 was £190 for race day, that very same stand is now £440 next year. You can only keep up with that for so long.

I’d echo previous comments here that perhaps the DTS crowd who are new are not put off by the prices, when I was younger I don’t think I had the same grasp of the value of money I do now but I guess things like mortgages, children, cost of living etc changes your outlook as time goes on. Maybe the majority of the DTS audience are not at that stage yet but I’m merely speculating now.

I’m not bitter though, I’ve witnessed some great races in person and have been very lucky to see what I have, especially V10’s and even V8’s and I’d rather they be my abiding memory of attending f1 than v6’s!

It’s only going one way though, even if the DTS phase eventually passes, many will still stick around so don’t expect these prices to ever go down again, it’s not how the world or f1 works!

Edited by Silverstone96, 09 December 2022 - 20:30.


#45 jjcale

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 21:10

That’s certainly an option for when demand is much greater than capacity. But I don’t know if that necessarily applies to the US right now. It’s not necessarily in the OP but the Indycar ticket prices discussion is also playing in my mind.

Still, when demand firmly outnumbers supply, I’m fundamentally against the determining factor being the highest bidder. Like your solution of keeping the elite level prices high, but democratising the basic level.

 

Demand exceeds supply only if you dont take price into account .... the point of price is to match demand to supply .... so you dont need lotteries and other non-market mechanisms. 

 

Inevitably some will lose out because of prices going up .... but others were losing out before so its no even a fairness issue - I am sure there was some very poor person who would have loved to go to the race who couldnt .... now its solidly middle class people who have to think twice.   

 

I'm not sure what can be done about it .... without abandoning our current systems .... at least partially .

 

.... you never struck me before as the kind of guy who would be supportive of that. 

 

Going to races is not an essential good/service .... its not the sort of thing that any society ever felt the need to ration (though I never knew about the Japan example before- and it just goes to show how different Japan is fundamentally from the "West" ... assuming its not tickets being given to workers employed by say Toyota or Honda - and it that case lotteries would make sense to me) .... if F1 races end up becoming some sort of luxury proposition .... I am not sure what can be done about it - within the current framework. .... I think we are just going to have to brace ourselves for this prospect.


Edited by jjcale, 09 December 2022 - 21:26.


#46 pdac

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 23:22

Surely, extremely high ticket prices for F1 would enable cheaper series to flourish as fans priced out of F1 would gravitate towards events that they can afford. Would that not be a good thing for motorsport in general?



#47 Clatter

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Posted 09 December 2022 - 23:30

Surely, extremely high ticket prices for F1 would enable cheaper series to flourish as fans priced out of F1 would gravitate towards events that they can afford. Would that not be a good thing for motorsport in general?

 


I doubt that would happen. I think for the majority it will be F1 or nothing.

Edited by Clatter, 09 December 2022 - 23:31.


#48 Silverstone96

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Posted 10 December 2022 - 08:08

Yes I go to other motorsport events regardless of whether I go to f1 or not but most people I know have no interest in motorsport beyond f1.

#49 BRG

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Posted 10 December 2022 - 09:38

 .... if F1 races end up becoming some sort of luxury proposition .... I am not sure what can be done about it

I think that ship has already sailed, especially taking AustinF1's points about ticket touts into consideration.  People are prepared to pay, not just the high official price, but an even higher unofficial price.  That shows that the circuits are not in fact charging as much as they could.  If they raise the prices even further, they could at least put the touts, agencies and scalpers out of business!



#50 pdac

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Posted 10 December 2022 - 11:05

I doubt that would happen. I think for the majority it will be F1 or nothing.

 

Yeah, I was just playing devils advocate (or, perhaps, putting the FOM spin on it).