69 replies to this topic

[RacingFan10]

2015 - Vettel replaced Alonso at Ferrari

2023 - Alonso replaces Vettel at Aston Martin

 

Is there any other case in history that this weird thing happened? Not counting driver swaps like the Red Bull teams did

[Disgrace]

Frentzen at Williams replaced Ralf Schumacher at Jordan who replaced Frentzen at Williams who replaced Ralf Schumacher at Jordan who replaced Frentzen at Williams who replaced Ralf Schumacher at Jordan who replaced Frentzen at Williams who replaced Ralf Schumacher at Jordan who replaced Frentzen at Williams who replaced Ralf Schumacher at Jordan in an infinite replacement loop in 1999.

[JRodrigues]

Alesi replaced Frentzen at Jordan... while Frentzen replaced Alesi at Prost at the same time.

[NewMrMe]

When NIgel Mansell left WIlliams to join for 1989 he was replaced by Thierry Boutsen.

When Mansell returned to Williams for 1991 it was Boutsen who was moved aside to accommodate his return.

[SenorSjon]

Schumacher and Alesi swapped seats between Benetton and Ferrari in 1995

[SB]

Schumacher and Alesi swapped seats between Benetton and Ferrari in 1995

 

Or some would say Schumacher and Berger swapped seats between Benetton and Ferrari in 1995 

[Anderis]

I have a good one:

2012: Hulkenberg replaced Sutil at Force India

2013: Sutil replaced Hulkebnerg at Force India

2014: Sutil repaced Hulkenberg at Sauber

          Hulkenberg replaced Sutil at Force India

Edited by Anderis, 13 December 2022 - 00:08.

[ANF]

Or some would say Schumacher and Berger swapped seats between Benetton and Ferrari in 1995 

Nah
 

18.07.95 - F1

Damon Hill's boss Frank Williams has denied calling his star driver a "prat" in the wake of Sunday's British Grand Prix clash with Michael Schumacher. Williams was reported to have visited the Benetton garage after the race to apologise for Hill's actions. But he said later: "Press reports alleging I labelled Damon Hill a 'prat' and apologised to the Benetton team are totally erroneous. I congratulated Johnny Herbert on his win on behalf of our team and told Schumacher I thought it was a shame a good race had ended in such a way."

Benetton boss Flavio Briatore has not ruled out the possibility of swapping world champion Michael Schumacher with Ferrari's Jean Alesi next year. "If Schumacher decides to leave, we will keep on winning races with another driver. Alesi is a driver I like very much," Briatore said in interviews with Italian media this week. The manager of Formula One's most successful team was reacting to reports that Ferrari have made a $15m bid to sign Schumacher for the 1996 season. Schumacher's manager Willi Weber said: "At the moment, everything is open."

The Italian government has given the go-ahead for safety work at Monza that should allow the Italian Formula One GP to be held as scheduled on September 10. The government backed a plan already approved by regional authorities under which $6.2m will be spent on bringing the track into line with FIA standards, and includes the felling of 185 trees.

They didn't really keep on winning, did they...

[Myrvold]

Nah

They didn't really keep on winning, did they...

In the end, they swapped Schumacher for Berger, and he won! ;P

[RacingFan10]

Frentzen at Williams replaced Ralf Schumacher at Jordan who replaced Frentzen at Williams who replaced Ralf Schumacher at Jordan who replaced Frentzen at Williams who replaced Ralf Schumacher at Jordan who replaced Frentzen at Williams who replaced Ralf Schumacher at Jordan who replaced Frentzen at Williams who replaced Ralf Schumacher at Jordan in an infinite replacement loop in 1999.

 

I dont get it

 

When NIgel Mansell left WIlliams to join for 1989 he was replaced by Thierry Boutsen.

When Mansell returned to Williams for 1991 it was Boutsen who was moved aside to accommodate his return.

 

 

I have a good one:

2012: Hulkenberg replaced Sutil at Force India

2013: Sutil replaced Hulkebnerg at Force India

2014: Sutil repaced Hulkenberg at Sauber

          Hulkenberg replaced Sutil at Force India

 

That's it, good ones

[Peat]

Re:Alesi/Berger moving 'together' to Benetton. 

I was always under the impression, at the time, that this was all amicable and they liked working with one another. But i recently heard a BBV10's episode where it was stated that Alesi was pissed off to learn that Berger would be joining him again as they tended to work against one another in development direction at Ferrari. 

[LegendInTheMaking]

There will probably be a bunch more as any straight swap counts, but here are some more examples after some minor digging on journeyman drivers and their associated teams:

 

Derek Daly took over Eddie Cheever's seat at Hesketh in 1978, while being replaced by him at Tyrrell in 1981.

Brundle and Palmer swapped their 1986 seats at Tyrrell and Zakspeed for the 1987 season.

Larini and Grouillard swapped their 1989 seats at Osella and Ligier for the 1990 season (although you could argue Larini actually replaced Arnoux).

Schumacher and Moreno replacing eachother at Jordan and Benetton in 1991. 

Pierluigi Martini was replaced by Christian Fittipaldi for the 1992 season at Minardi, only to retake his seat in 1994.

Zanardi being replaced for Lamy at Lotus in 1993, with the roles reversed in 1994.

Herbert en Bernard had a seat swap for the Lotus and Ligier seats in 1994.

Fisichella and Trulli exchanged their 2001 seats at Benetton/Renault and Jordan for 2002.

Heidfeld and Fisichella swapped their 2003 seats with Sauber and Jordan for 2004.

Fisichella, yet again, swapped his 2004 seat with Villeneuve for Sauber and Renault for the 2005 season.

 

Actually, I expected there to be a lot more, but obviously this was only a limited effort.

 

The examples of drivers replacing eachother at different teams and this not being a straight swap are apparently significantly more limited, as only the Daly-Cheever example fits those criteria.

Edited by LegendInTheMaking, 13 December 2022 - 14:56.

[messy]

Felipe Massa replaced himself in 2017 I suppose!

I really thought there would be more of these - but racking my brains I can't really think of any that haven't been mentioned already.

[Baddoer]

Verstappen replaced Kvyat in Red Bull

Kvyat replaced Verstappen in Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri

[Beri]

Verstappen replaced Kvyat in Red Bull
Kvyat replaced Verstappen in Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri

2015 - Vettel replaced Alonso at Ferrari
2023 - Alonso replaces Vettel at Aston Martin
 
Is there any other case in history that this weird thing happened? Not counting driver swaps like the Red Bull teams did

[garoidb]

There will probably be a bunch more as any straight swap counts, but here are some more examples after some minor digging on journeyman drivers and their associated teams:

 

Derek Daly took over Eddie Cheever's seat at Hesketh in 1978, while being replaced by him at Tyrrell in 1981.

 

.

.

.

 

 

The examples of drivers replacing eachother at different teams and this not being a straight swap are apparently significantly more limited, as only the Daly-Cheever example fits those criteria.

 

Yes, that is the most interesting one. I thought I would be able to think of several but am coming up blank. One dubious one I will throw out there is that Fernando replaced Jenson at Renault in 2003 and Jenson replaced Fernando at the 2017 Monaco Grand Prix   ... but only for one race!

[garoidb]

Another one - Felipe Massa replaced Kimi at Sauber in 2002 while Kimi replaced Felipe at Ferrari in 2014.

[FirstnameLastname]

Perez replaced Hamilton at McLaren

Hamilton to replace Perez at Redbull…

[NewMrMe]

Got another.

 

For 1985 Gerhard Berger joined Arrows replacing Marc Surer.

For 1986 Berger moved on to Benetton. Surer rejoined Arrows as is replacement.

[keeppari]

Trulli replaced Fisichella at Benetton in 2002 and was replaced by Fisichella at Renault in 2005.

This is technically the same team though and Villeneuve stood in as replacement for the last two races in 2004.

EDIT: Also Webber was replaced by DC when Jaguar became Red Bull in 2005 and DC was replaced by Webber at Red Bull for 2007.

Edited by keeppari, 14 December 2022 - 21:40.

[WonderWoman61]

Trulli replaced Fisichella at Benetton in 2002 and was replaced by Fisichella at Renault in 2005.
This is technically the same team though and Villeneuve stood in as replacement for the last two races in 2004.
EDIT: Also Webber was replaced by DC when Jaguar became Red Bull in 2005 and DC was replaced by Webber at Red Bull for 2007.

Villeneuve replaced Trulli for the last three races.

Webber was DC's team-mate in 2007 and 2008.

[WonderWoman61]

Gabriele Tarquini and Olivier Grouillard swapped seats in 1991:

Tarquini moved from AGS to Fondmetal.
Grouillard moved from Fondmetal to AGS.

Both teams went bust within a year of each other.

[keeppari]

Villeneuve replaced Trulli for the last three races.

Webber was DC's team-mate in 2007 and 2008.

Ah, you're right and my memory fails me. I was certain that DC did just a couple of seasons at RB but indeed the guy stuck there for a few more than that.

[Earthling]

Re:Alesi/Berger moving 'together' to Benetton. 

I was always under the impression, at the time, that this was all amicable and they liked working with one another. But i recently heard a BBV10's episode where it was stated that Alesi was pissed off to learn that Berger would be joining him again as they tended to work against one another in development direction at Ferrari. 

Dunno about any issues with that, but they are very good friends till now and when both are at the same event, they are always together.

I saw them both (and got an autograph on my Renault shirt (which i lost later on) in Abu Dhabi back in early 2007 when they made a demo run in the city streets and surprise announcement that Abu Dhabi will host the F1 race from 2009 on-wards.

 

Regarding this thread, we can also say Alesi and Schumacher replaced each other at Ferrari-Benetton.

[WonderWoman61]

Ah, you're right and my memory fails me. I was certain that DC did just a couple of seasons at RB but indeed the guy stuck there for a few more than that.

We all make mistakes.

[Dolph]

Barrichello-Irvine swap in 2000.

[BerniesDad]

In 2005 at Red Bull, Christian Klien and Vito Liuzzi shared the 2nd seat, so they replaced each other several times during the same season 

[WonderWoman61]

This is probably pushing it but you could say Gregor Foitek replaced Oscar Larrauri at Eurobrun for 1989, only to leave the team 11 races in, Larrauri taking his place.

[IrvTheSwerve]

My wife replaced me as a driver on a trip up North (UK), I then replaced her on the way home the day after.

 

(OP didn't specify F1  )

[WonderWoman61]

My wife replaced me as a driver on a trip up North (UK), I then replaced her on the way home the day after.
 
(OP didn't specify F1  )

Meant to ask if this thread applied to other Motorsports besides F1.

[WonderWoman61]

Vitaly Petrov replaced Romain Grosjean at Team Enstone for 2010.

Romain Grosjean replaced Vitaly Petrov at Team Enstone for 2012.

[Jerem]

Kovalainen replaced Alonso at Renault in 2007.
Then Alonso replaced Kovalainen at Renault in 2008.

[Dolph]

Kovalainen replaced Alonso at Renault in 2007.
Then Alonso replaced Kovalainen at Renault in 2008.

 

Alonso and Kovalainen swapped seats in 2008.

[garoidb]

2015 - Vettel replaced Alonso at Ferrari

2023 - Alonso replaces Vettel at Aston Martin

 

Is there any other case in history that this weird thing happened? Not counting driver swaps like the Red Bull teams did

 

I don't know if we have yet come up with one like this, where the two drivers' careers intersected twice, many years apart. A driver swap can almost be considered as one event, or one triggered by another. So, they are linked. A driver leaving and returning to the same team, replacing the driver who earlier replaced him, is also not quite two separate things, in that the original team-driver relationship is a common factor between the first event and the second. In 2015, Ferrari would say they were seeking a gain by bringing in Seb, but really just needed it not to be a loss. In 2023, Seb is retiring and is therefore unavailable. I would say Aston Martin are similarly looking to maintain the level of their lead driver, and all the better if there is a gain. In many of the other examples, besides even the direct swaps and common team ones, they are not quite like this. In some cases, a driver leaves a team on the way up and comes back there on the way down (or back up!). Or, perhaps, a team has different priorities at different times and takes a driver for reasons other than performance. 

 

In conclusion, I am still trying to think of an example that is genuinely close to the first one where strong performance was a priority at both times, and there was not a common factor such as a direct swap or it being the same team both times.

[LittleChris]

In 2005 at Red Bull, Christian Klien and Vito Liuzzi shared the 2nd seat, so they replaced each other several times during the same season 

 

From what I remember they also shared a flat in Apsley Marina so would've shared the seats at home too    .   

[NewMrMe]

Some more.

 

1980 Alain Prost replaced Patrick Tambay at McLaren

1984 Patrick Tambay replaced Alain Prost at Renault

 

1993 Alex Zanardi injured in a practice accident at Spa. Replaced by Pedro Lamy.

1994 Pedro Lamy injured in a testing accident at Silverstone. Replaced by Alex Zanardi.

[WonderWoman61]

In 2010, Christian Klien replaced Sakon Yamamoto for one race, then Yamamoto replaced Klien for 2 races, then Klien replaced Yamamoto again for the last two races, such was the chopping and changing at HRT.

In 2011, Narain Karthikeyan replaced Vitantonio Liuzzi at HRT for the Indian GP after being replaced by Daniel Ricciardo, then Liuzzi replaced Karthikeyan for the remaining races.

[Dolph]

Max Verstappen replaces Kvyat at Red Bull.

Max Verstappen replaces Kvyat at Kelly Piquet.

[Myrvold]

Max Verstappen replaces Kvyat at Red Bull.

Max Verstappen replaces Kvyat at Kelly Piquet.

 

One wonder if Verstappen gets to the finish faster there as well.

[427MkIV]

Unless this is F1 only...in 1984 Richard Childress signed Dale Earnhardt to replace Ricky Rudd, who replaced Earnhardt at Bud Moore's team. Earnhardt had previously driven for Childress but left to go to Moore's team.

[Dolph]

One wonder if Verstappen gets to the finish faster there as well.

Rather he scores more often

[WonderWoman61]

Nico Rosberg replaced Rubens Barrichello at Brawn/Mercedes for 2010.
Rubens Barrichello replaced Nico Rosberg at Williams for 2010.

[Radoye]

Not sure if this counts, but the Fabi brothers Teo and Corrado replaced each other a couple times at Brabham in 1984. Teo run the first 5 races, then Corrado took over in Monaco and Montreal, Teo returned for Detroit, Corrado again for Dallas, and finally Teo ran the remainder of the season bar the last race where the car was driven by Winkelhock.

 

This also makes them a pair of brothers teammates but they never actually started in a world championship F1 race together. Teo ran in F1 1982 - 1987 but skipped 1983 running in CART IndyCar instead; Corrado ran only 1983 for Osella and the aforementioned handful of races for Brabham subbing for his brother - who on those weekend was again racing in CART.

[Zmeej]

My wife replaced me as a driver on a trip up North (UK), I then replaced her on the way home the day after.

 

(OP didn't specify F1  )

 

[MKSixer]

Verstappen replaced Kvyat in Red Bull

Kvyat replaced Verstappen in Toro Rosso/Alpha Tauri

Verstappen Replacing Kyat at Piquet.  Oh wait...that's only one way.    

[MKSixer]

Max Verstappen replaces Kvyat at Red Bull.

Max Verstappen replaces Kvyat at Kelly Piquet.

Missed this.

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

Nico Hulkenberg replacing everyone and everyone replacing Nico Hulkenberg ...

[WonderWoman61]

My wife replaced me as a driver on a trip up North (UK), I then replaced her on the way home the day after.
 
(OP didn't specify F1  )

Alright then:

2008 British Touring Car Championship:

Matt Neal replaced Tom Chilton at Triple 8

Tom Chilton replaced Matt Neal at Team Dynamics.

[WonderWoman61]

Martin Brundle and Aguri Suzuki sharing the Ligier seat in 1995.

[Myrvold]

Martin Brundle and Aguri Suzuki sharing the Ligier seat in 1995.

 

 

Is there any other case in history that this weird thing happened? Not counting driver swaps like the Red Bull teams did