25 replies to this topic

[tonyed]

The Bemsee 'Silverstone Hutchinson 100 Saturday' meeting on 6th October 1951 featured:

 

'Event 8. 50 mile (17laps) Handicap for Solos Motorcycles 400cc to 1000cc, Sidecars 490-1000cc and 3 Wheelers up to 1200cc'

 

I have never seen such a race format before. I note that it did not feature the following year. 

[PJ52]

Somehow this reminds me of when we used to go testing at Snetterton on a Monday, circa 1971.  It was on the long circuit (2.71 miles) and we had to share the circuit with race cars.  It was not funny to be overtaken on the old Norwich Straight by a Formula 1 car when on a not very fast Formula Bantam   

[Robin127]

Somehow this reminds me of when we used to go testing at Snetterton on a Monday, circa 1971.  It was on the long circuit (2.71 miles) and we had to share the circuit with race cars.  It was not funny to be overtaken on the old Norwich Straight by a Formula 1 car when on a not very fast Formula Bantam   

Something similar was still happening a few years later.  I was practicing there before the start of the 1976 season and as I peeled into the left hander at the end of the Revett Straight a sidecar appeared on the inside of me.

[billlawrence]

Yes I remember a F1 car overtaking me one a bantam I think Lotus factory was nearby its a wonder they let us out the same time but I dont remember any problems   

[GregThomas]

Ruapuna circuit near Christchurch NZ used to run open mixed practise sessions. I saw and reported the incident which stopped them.

Testing a bike, a couple of bikes out on circuit and a couple of cars - well spaced. The guy on my bike came up behind a saloon car going slowly.

Lined him up to pass on the side with the most room on the front straight. At that moment the car starts weaving from lock to lock - nearly knocked the bike off track.

Rider backed right off and came in as soon as he could get off track - very upset.He'd actually been hit by the car.

We went and laid a complaint with the track manager. Car driver spoken to and hauled up before the Car Club committee. Negligent in not looking around before weaving - and tossed off the track for a 3 year period. Don't think he came back.

Sessions are now 1/2 hour alternating bikes and cars. Any sidecars get a separate 1/2 hour.

 

Nearest we ever get to cars and bikes competing together is the annual Brooklands Trophy. 3 vehicle teams run as a relay - separately - but closest team to a specified time wins.

Cars are Historic club, bikes local Classic race club.  Honours just about even I think over nearly 20 years. Usually run at a combined meeting at Levels track, Timaru.

[tonyed]

Somehow this reminds me of when we used to go testing at Snetterton on a Monday, circa 1971.  It was on the long circuit (2.71 miles) and we had to share the circuit with race cars.  It was not funny to be overtaken on the old Norwich Straight by a Formula 1 car when on a not very fast Formula Bantam   

Yes remember it well I was up there one day with my new 350 Aermacchi-Mettisse and F1 Lotus were there. This prat Henri Pascarolo ran over my fairing in the paddock, nearly knocking my bike off its' stand. Ignorant arsehole didn't want to pay for the damage. 

[Revetts]

It seems us Bantam riders had more than our fair share of "incidents" at Snetterton mixed practice days. I was enjoying a session there when I was caught (surprise, surprise! ) by a two stroke Yamaha sidecar outfit between Coram and Russells when the track disappeared between those dirt banks. I heard it coming alright but was concerned what the driver would do. Thankfully he braked in behind me then accelerated away on the exit. I had the most amazing view down onto that outfit from a very rare vantage point. Not sure but i think it could have been a BP sponsored outfit driven by George O'Dell. Perhaps someone can tell me?

[Jim77]

I have this memory of a test day pre 71, assumed cars would go out on their own. Went out at allocated time arrived at Coram curve only to hear what I thought was a single cylinder bike coming around me, I looked and saw a Lotus F1; you can understand the surprise. Don’t know why I thought it was a single cylinder bike?

[tonyed]

I have this memory of a test day pre 71, assumed cars would go out on their own. Went out at allocated time arrived at Coram curve only to hear what I thought was a single cylinder bike coming around me, I looked and saw a Lotus F1; you can understand the surprise. Don’t know why I thought it was a single cylinder bike?

Probably because the driver had one braincell - I had a dislike of car racers most (probably not at club level) were arrogant bastards. The only time I, unfortunately, came across them was at Snetterton practice days and that was Lotus F1.  

They still think their sad old industry is the bees knees. 

Handbags at dawn 

[LittleChris]

When did your fairing get run over Tony ( I wasn't aware that Henri Pescarolo ever drove an F1 Lotus and wondered if it was a secretish test) ?

[tonyed]

When did your fairing get run over Tony ( I wasn't aware that Henri Pescarolo ever drove an F1 Lotus and wondered if it was a secretish test) ?

This was early 1972, probably March - I too had looked up Lotus F1 drivers of that era and could not find him. However I am certain that was who the team said was driving that day, so it may have been a hush, hush test.  

 

One brain cell idiots like Sir Jockstrap Stewfart who insisted that all race circuits were lined with Armco barrier. Now what do they do, race round concrete lined circuits.

Even lined with straw bales it wasn't a pleasant experience hitting them protected by 1mm of cowhide. I hit the steel barriers at the Snetterton bomb hole as it was then with the barrier up hard against the edge of the track. This was in 1977 and still gives me constant pain today.    

Edited by tonyed, 15 December 2022 - 10:47.

[LittleChris]

This was early 1972, probably March - I too had looked up Lotus F1 drivers of that era and could not find him. However I am certain that was who the team said was driving that day, so it may have been a hush, hush test.  

 

 

Pescarolo has/had a full beard & a very distinctive all green helmet if that helps. 

[tonyed]

This was 1972 - I can barely remember what I had for breakfast.

The name just stuck in my mind that's all.

With my knowledge of car racers of the time, or any time for that matter, it could have been Micky Mouse - sorry can't help there.

[philippe7]

This was early 1972, probably March - I too had looked up Lotus F1 drivers of that era and could not find him. However I am certain that was who the team said was driving that day, so it may have been a hush, hush test.  

 

 

I can assess with a reasonable level of confidence that Henri Pescarolo never, ever drove an F1 Lotus.

 

However in 1972 he was driving an F1 March  for a independant british team (of a certain Frank Williams who later went on to greater things ) so it is not impossible that he would have found himself testing at Snetterton. 

 

Or they may have said "Fit - ti - pal - di" (that would make sense in 1972 at Lotus) and you remember "Pes - ca - ro - lo" . Might sound similar for a non-latin speaker ?

[john winfield]

Probably Dave Walker having a joke.

[tonyed]

Whichever one it was he drove over my expensive fairing, nearly knocked my bike off its' stand and could not have cared less. 

Still, all water under the bridge and getting way off the topic which is 'unusual races'

Come on must be more weird race formats in the past.

[billlawrence]

I remember a relay race at Brand about five teams of six riders some good ones too different cc bikes dont remember them repeating it 

[tonyed]

There were several team races at Brands in the 70s I remember. Mainly two riders from the same entrant.

Yes they also they had 4 rider relays with one rider from each class, 125, 250, 350, 500.

I've got programs with these races in them somewhere in my 'big box of programs'. 

[70JesperOH]

A test of the fastest two and four wheel racers was among the features of a Danish motor magazine (Bilen Motor & Sport) during 1981. Chris Fisker, riding X?, represented the two wheelers and Jørgen Poulsen in his 935-look-a-like group 5 Porsche Carrera RSR the four wheelers. The dramatic main picture saw Fisker taking a corner almost horizontal in front of the very upright, very big Porsche snapping at his heels. Very illustrative of why bikes and cars generally don't mix on race tracks!

 

That was OT, but one more; Bikes must have been part of hillclimbing in combined bike and car events, but just never heard of it. I'm generally not very well educated in the world of bike racing and hillclimbing in general, but reading through the topic trigered my question.

 

Jesper

[Alan Lewis]

Combined bike/car hillclimb meetings were certainly a thing. I saw Jenks take his bike up Shelsley at more than one July Vintage Meeting.

[GregThomas]

Up till the late 60's they were here in NZ too. Then we got enough numbers and money to run our own meetings.

There are still a small number of combined roadrace meetings here - but they're not very popular with the bike side. Too much oil laid down for comfort.

 

The oil is principally what I remember from 60's racing here. Then in the 70's like everywhere else we got Armco.

[Robin127]

...Then in the 70's like everywhere else we got Armco.

I was in NZ in 1994 and went to watch the Classic Club Race of the Year, Pukekohe was certainly Armco City.

[Rodaknee]

Brands Hatch had a mixed event in the 60's.  It was a national bike event with all the usual suspects.  In the middle of the day they ran an open wheel car race.  Brands claimed it was to give fans of both sports the opportunity to see another motorsport and possibly increase attendances in some way.

There was uproar when we looked in the programme to discover the *invading* 4 wheelers were being paid over twice the prize money of the bike racers.  That was when a race win was probably worth £10.  I'm not sure if it wasn't the day when dozens of beer cans were thrown on the track by disgusted bike spectators.

They never repeated the event.

[Robin127]

Brands Hatch had a mixed event in the 60's.  It was a national bike event with all the usual suspects.  In the middle of the day they ran an open wheel car race.  Brands claimed it was to give fans of both sports the opportunity to see another motorsport and possibly increase attendances in some way.

There was uproar when we looked in the programme to discover the *invading* 4 wheelers were being paid over twice the prize money of the bike racers.  That was when a race win was probably worth £10.  I'm not sure if it wasn't the day when dozens of beer cans were thrown on the track by disgusted bike spectators.

They never repeated the event.

 

I raced in a couple of combined car/bike club events at Brands.  One in 1988 which I think the bike part was run by the Brands Racing Committee, it was OK but really not something that should have ever become a regular thing.

 

The second was a classic car and bike weekend over the long circuit in 1995.  This was actually a really good event, there were four bike races each day, one for bikes up to 500cc and one for 501 and above with prizes for each class, (250, 350 etc).  The whole event was run very much on a car racing format (although the bike part was supervised by the Racing50 Club, not surprised that Jim Parker had his sticky fingers in it) and we got loads of track time.  There were two 20 minute practice sessions on the Saturday and one on the Sunday.  The first one on the Saturday caught some people out, as not being used to such long sessions they ran out of fuel.  The races if I remember correctly were 8 laps which was unheard of for a club race on the long circuit.

 

That weekend really opened my eyes to the money involved in car racing, there were races for AC Cobras, saloon cars and the main race of the day was an F1 event.  The set ups these people had was mind blowing, even the less well funded people were spending way more than my budget for at least two years of racing both in the UK and a couple of European events.

[tonyed]

Some GPs in the 50s and 60s were accompanied by the national federation car races. The 'clubbie' cars racers tended to get the paved areas whereas the world championship bike riders to confined to a muddy field.

Is it any wonder we in the bike world tend to loath the 4 wheelers! 

One Silverstone GP in the 70s, when it ran the F750 world series also had bicycle races, boring or what! Never seen the excitement in bicycle racing, seems so much effort for so little spectacle.  

But, each to their own, just don't mix them.

Edited by tonyed, 18 December 2022 - 18:10.

[Bordino]

The first Bol d'Or; in the 1920's, were mixing side-cars and cyclecars, with incidents of cohabitation.

 

Rally-raids still do mix all sort of vehicles, in some ways. The Abdjan-Nice et the first Paris-Dakar had an overall result mixing bikes and cars.

Notably, the '79 Paris-Dakar was won by a bike, the first car being 4th, IIRC.

Which rapidly led to separated results, at the great pleasure of car-makers.