2388 replies to this topic

[Skelly1927]

highdownforce, on 08 Nov 2023 - 21:43, said:

Non-WEC LMGT3 brands BANNED at Lemans and ELMS
https://sportscar365...nds-at-le-mans/

It wouldn't be Le Mans without some weird confusion regulations.

[Stephane]

Makes sense with the first intent of having modifified GT3

[Ben1445]

The proposed WEC/LM24 hydrogen class (recently expanded to allow both fuel cell and combustion) has been delayed... again... this time to 2027. 

 

https://www.dailyspo...ed-to-2027.html

[ARTGP]

Ben1445, on 09 Nov 2023 - 14:29, said:

The proposed WEC/LM24 hydrogen class (recently expanded to allow both fuel cell and combustion) has been delayed... again... this time to 2027. 

 

https://www.dailyspo...ed-to-2027.html

 

They'll be ready to race electric by then 

[Ben1445]

I think there's just such a lot of uncertainty around hydrogen fuel in automotive (or at very least the motorsport adjacent sectors within it) that I tend to doubt that a manufacturer interest-led class can work as means to introduce it. 

 

I think they could have more success doing that with something along the lines of converting LMP2 to being a spec hydrogen (I'd say fuel cell) class... but that's still not exactly easy. 

Edited by Ben1445, 09 November 2023 - 15:16.

[Skelly1927]

Ben1445, on 09 Nov 2023 - 15:12, said:

I think there's just such a lot of uncertainty around hydrogen fuel in automotive (or at very least the motorsport adjacent sectors within it) that I tend to doubt that a manufacturer interest-led class can work as means to introduce it. 

 

I think they could have more success doing that with something along the lines of converting LMP2 to being a spec hydrogen (I'd say fuel cell) class... but that's still not exactly easy. 

I think Motorsport organisers will do anything and everything to avoid silent race cars.

[highdownforce]

Skelly1927, on 09 Nov 2023 - 18:35, said:

I think Motorsport organisers will do anything and everything to avoid silent race cars.

Have you heard those diesel Audis?

[Stephane]

Even the R8 wasn't really loud.

[TennisUK]

Ben1445, on 09 Nov 2023 - 15:12, said:

I think there's just such a lot of uncertainty around hydrogen fuel in automotive (or at very least the motorsport adjacent sectors within it) that I tend to doubt that a manufacturer interest-led class can work as means to introduce it.

I think they could have more success doing that with something along the lines of converting LMP2 to being a spec hydrogen (I'd say fuel cell) class... but that's still not exactly easy.

I think there would be considerably more value ensuring tha the WEC circus - all aircraft, boats etc that do all the logistics, use synthetic fuel (or maybe hydrogen when appropriate) than shoe horning in tanks to use in racing cars for a use case that has practically zero value for manufactures of road cars.

[Skelly1927]

highdownforce, on 10 Nov 2023 - 00:21, said:

Have you heard those diesel Audis?

Just wait until the Aston turns up the reaction online and irl. It'll tell you everything you need to know.

[Dan333SP]

I’m not afraid to admit I’ll actively choose to plan a big trip to see a WEC race specifically to hear the Aston when it makes its debut.

[Silverstone96]

I managed to get Le Mans tickets finally so glad I’ll be there next year.

Can anyone advise whether there is much to see on the Friday night?

[juicy sushi]

Stephane, on 10 Nov 2023 - 06:46, said:

Even the R8 wasn't really loud.

It did make noise though.  Although at ALMS rounds it did come across as silent because the Panoz LMP-1 had ruptured everyone's ear drums when it went past.  Now that car had a NOISE.

[flatlandsman]

All IO can recall from the later Audis was them hitting rumble strips, they did travel at a surreal speed though!

[FLB]

flatlandsman, on 10 Nov 2023 - 14:14, said:

All IO can recall from the later Audis was them hitting rumble strips, they did travel at a surreal speed though!

Standing inside T1 at Mosport, near the pit exit (2006)... You could hear the tires when the R10 came by. Plus, I don't know if it was an aero issue, but the car 'whistled', for lack of a better word.

Edited by FLB, 10 November 2023 - 14:57.

[dweller23]

Silverstone96, on 10 Nov 2023 - 12:49, said:

I managed to get Le Mans tickets finally so glad I’ll be there next year.

Can anyone advise whether there is much to see on the Friday night?

Friday is a pretty cool day, you have two simultaneous events during the day: drivers parade in the city and open pitlane for anyone. This year open pitlane was even accessible to people with just a weekend ticket, but I have no idea how will it be next year. Aside from that the main events are usually a concert and a parade of Le Mans workers (aimed towards families of those people, who get to sit at the T34 grandstand). There were also some flyovers this year and 100-years mark car parade, but these were likely one-offs. There are some good fan events scattered around Le Mans at the time as well, so keep your eye out on various Le Mans social media/forums.

[onewingedangel]

I always thought the Diesel Audi's sounded great offboard because you could hear the tyres and aero disturbance because the engine was so quiet, onboard they were a bit agricultural.

[ARTGP]

Supposedly Vanwall is changing engine suppliers: Vanwall to change engine suppliers for WEC Hypercar in 2024 (autosport.com)

 

I didn't even know they were granted an entry for next year? 

 

I wonder if they are going to take the glickenhaus engines?  Those cars finished Le Mans regularly. 

Edited by ARTGP, 10 November 2023 - 16:15.

[Stephane]

The lack of sound made it feel like a spaceship, especially the latest r18 ultra whatever

[ezequiel]

ARTGP, on 10 Nov 2023 - 16:15, said:

Supposedly Vanwall is changing engine suppliers: Vanwall to change engine suppliers for WEC Hypercar in 2024 (autosport.com)

 

I didn't even know they were granted an entry for next year? 

 

I wonder if they are going to take the glickenhaus engines?  Those cars finished Le Mans regularly. 

I guess that instead of heavy modifications to the car for the Gibson engine to work properly they will try to fit an engine that would not bring them cooling problems. They are not granted an entry for next year but if they want to stand a chance they need to do these kinds of moves to prove they are serious and that they can improve and not be an embarrasment.

Edited by ezequiel, 10 November 2023 - 16:55.

[FLB]

ARTGP, on 10 Nov 2023 - 16:15, said:

Supposedly Vanwall is changing engine suppliers: Vanwall to change engine suppliers for WEC Hypercar in 2024 (autosport.com)

 

I didn't even know they were granted an entry for next year? 

 

I wonder if they are going to take the glickenhaus engines?  Those cars finished Le Mans regularly. 

From the article:

 

Quote

 

Kolles, whose German-based team formerly ran under the ByKolles banner, would not reveal the identity of the engine, though he did confirm it is a turbocharged unit and a known quantity.

“We can say that we are changing the engine for next season,” Kolles told Autosport.

“It will be a turbo and is a proven engine with enough power and good reliability — it is not in any way an experiment.”

 

If I had to guess, I'd say Pipo Moteurs just got a new contract after Jim Glickenhaus said he'd had enough.

[Dan333SP]

FLB, on 10 Nov 2023 - 14:57, said:

Standing inside T1 at Mosport, near the pit exit (2006)... You could hear the tires when the R10 came by. Plus, I don't know if it was an aero issue, but the car 'whistled', for lack of a better word.

 

I saw the R10/R15 and 908s in the flesh, I think the whistling was just the turbocharger in the same way you can clearly hear it on diesel locomotives or diesel trucks. They were very impressive machines. 

[ARTGP]

FLB, on 10 Nov 2023 - 17:15, said:

From the article:

 

 

If I had to guess, I'd say Pipo Moteurs just got a new contract after Jim Glickenhaus said he'd had enough.

 

I had a similar thought as they said "turbo".

 

However, my next question is that if Vanwall couldn't keep a naturally aspirated V8 engine cool inside their engine bay, then how are they going keep a twin turbo motor cooled    .  The turbos generate a large amount of heat and the intercoolers need airflow as well. 

Edited by ARTGP, 10 November 2023 - 17:29.

[Dan333SP]

I don't know who is going to run the 3rd Ferrari but I don't see a single potential Hypercar entry on the list that should be sidelined for a "refreshed" Vanwall. I was excited to see the car this year but it's pretty clear nothing has changed with the team compared to their backmarker P1 days, would be a travesty if they are back on the grid even with a Pipo motor. 

[Cornholio]

Not specifically related to the Vanwall, but I wonder whether if the top class becomes that oversubscribed over the next few years whether it would become an idea to (re-)introduce it in the regional LMS series. Obviously you'd probably want at the absolute bare minimum half a dozen cars to make it remotely viable/worth doing, but it seems a waste to have potential hypercar programs shut down/not get off the ground on account of having literally nowhere to race on account of the WEC's hard car limit and IMSA being even more manufacturer-oriented than the former. The Formula ORECA runners would still be racing to beat each other as before, although I guess with that category departing WEC they wouldn't want to see their numbers squeezed down in the regional series.

[Dan333SP]

I'm not sure the cost proposition is there to justify running an expensive LMDh/LMH car in anything other than a top line series (IMSA/WEC). We're talking about 1-2 cars on the bubble where only one of them is a unique manufacturer/not a 2nd car for a privateer, I don't know that the market will expand enough that 10+ cars would be getting bumped? 

[Stephane]

The overcrowd won't last for long, always a cycle.

[juicy sushi]

If everyone else is too scared to supply customer cars then the overcrowding won't become an issue, since it will be about how fast Porsche can supply the cars.  And they can definitely slow walk the growth to match WEC finding venues with big enough pitlanes to enable the bigger grids they talk about in 2025 and beyond.

[Stephane]

Porsches wil just replace outgoings, see '80s 

[Peugeot905evo1bis]

Dan333SP, on 08 Nov 2023 - 15:59, said:

If 'basic' motorsports knowledge is knowing various karting championship winners from the '60s and knowing how those series were sanctioned, I'd wager 99.99% of this forum, and people actively involved in the sport at a professional level, therefore lack basic knowledge. 

 

Anyway, back to WEC please! 

 

The official entry for 2024 is capped at 37 cars, so 19 Hypercars and 18 GT3s. 

 

Someone fact check me here, but this is what I think the HY entry looks like:

 

2 Toyotas

2 Alpines

2 Ferraris

2 Peugeots

2 Penske Porsche

2 BMWs

2(?) Jota Porsche

1 Proton Porsche

1 Cadillac

1 Isotta Fraschini

1 Lamborghini 

 

That's 18 cars, or possibly 17 if Jota don't get their 2nd car, but that seems likely. For the 19th car, the rumors of Ferrari running a 3rd car under the Richard Mille Racing banner continue, and Proton are also apparently due to receive another 963 intended for WEC at some point in the season. I know Isotta have also stated that they'd like to run a 2nd car, and Vanwall are almost certainly not going to have their entry renewed so we don't need to consider them here. 

 

Anyone else we may be missing here? 

That is a really impressive grid ! Any idea of what the Le Mans grid would look like ?

2 more Cadillac ? 1 or 2 more Porsche ? A second Lambo ? A third Peugeot ? 

[Dan333SP]

Peugeot905evo1bis, on 13 Nov 2023 - 12:09, said:

That is a really impressive grid ! Any idea of what the Le Mans grid would look like ?

2 more Cadillac ? 1 or 2 more Porsche ? A second Lambo ? A third Peugeot ? 

 

Probably too early to say for sure but I'd bet we'll see all 3 factory Cadillacs, definitely the 2nd IMSA Lambo, probably only the 2 Peugeots, maybe the Vanwall even if they don't get a full season entry, and we could see maybe 7 963s between the likely 3 cars from Penske, 2 from Jota, and 2 from Proton. Could be even more 963s if JDC try to get an entry as well. 

[flatlandsman]

I thought Caddy had only said one car for WEC 24

 

Theya re very busy with the GT3 vette so I think WEC takes a back seat Caddy wise for 24, they only have so much to go around, this coming from the boss on the Bahrain footage, and she admits herself there they may tried to do too much in 23.

[FLB]

flatlandsman, on 13 Nov 2023 - 18:50, said:

I thought Caddy had only said one car for WEC 24

 

 

They did (or rather Laura Wontrop Klauser did) :

 

 

https://www.motorspo...rrier/10531116/

[Dan333SP]

flatlandsman, on 13 Nov 2023 - 18:50, said:

I thought Caddy had only said one car for WEC 24

 

Theya re very busy with the GT3 vette so I think WEC takes a back seat Caddy wise for 24, they only have so much to go around, this coming from the boss on the Bahrain footage, and she admits herself there they may tried to do too much in 23.

 

One car for WEC, but unless I'm missing it they haven't ruled out seeking LM24 entries for the 2 IMSA cars like they did this year. In the article FLB linked it just says additional LM24 Cadillac entries will be announced by the ACO. 

[ARTGP]

I might get burned for this, but these cars in Las Vegas would be fun. 

[Stephane]

Just remove the chicanes at Le Mans and you have pretty much it

[jonpollak]

ARTGP, on 21 Nov 2023 - 02:53, said:

I might get burned for this, but these cars in Las Vegas would be fun. 

No you Won't...I Like it.

 

Also..

JOTA superstars in the second entry?

 

Jp

[JL14]

So Kubica finally gets his Ferrari seat!

 

Kubica set to drive Ferrari hypercar in WEC 2024 after joining AF Corse (motorsport.com)

[ezequiel]

Anja created a thread for the 2024 WEC season here https://forums.autos...ionship-season/