860 replies to this topic

[Fastcake]

A new Article 12.2.1.n states that drivers will be deemed to have committed a breach of the rules if they show "the general making and display of political, religious and personal statements or comments notably in violation of the general principle of neutrality promoted by the FIA under its Statutes, unless previously approved in writing by the FIA for International Competitions, or by the relevant ASN for National Competitions within their jurisdiction."

https://www.autospor...roval/10413112/

Well, are the FIA taking a line out of FIFA’s book, trying to shut down anything that makes their bank account contributors uncomfortable and in the process make themselves look even more ridiculous? Will drivers simply ignore this, and carry on making statements when they feel the needs too?

I’m sure this will be a fun discussion.

[FirstnameLastname]

We race as one. All thoughts must be run through the Glorious President and not thought or spoken of without his approval.

[FirstnameLastname]

Is this a complete u-turn of the #WeRaceAsOne campaign from 2020?

It’s a realignment. Still race as one - as long as that ‘one’ is agreeing to turn a blind eye when circumstances dictate it necessary (dodgy countries with wads of cash)

[Risil]

Yeah I deleted that comment as I realized pretty quickly that #WeRaceAsOne would probably have been fine as it was an FIA initiative (possibly in reality it was the FIA deciding it might as well give official sanction to something that would otherwise happen in a spontaneous and less controllable way).

[Risil]

I wonder what "personal statements [...] in violation of the general principle of neutrality" are? I guess it's a catch-all for things like Vettel's "same love" message that LGBT rights folks would hotly disagree are "political" ?

[Sterzo]

This sounds shocking, if the report is correct and complete.

 

'Article 12.2.1.n states that drivers will be deemed to have committed a breach of the rules if they show "the general making and display of political, religious and personal statements or comments notably in violation of the general principle of neutrality promoted by the FIA under its Statutes, unless previously approved in writing by the FIA for International Competitions, or by the relevant ASN for National Competitions within their jurisdiction."'

 

If that relates solely to (say) podium appearances and press conferences, then it's bad enough. If it means that drivers can't express their views in public... well, that's unenforceable and would be thrown out by any court. I wonder if the penalties have been published too? I suppose having your tongue cut out wouldn't prevent you from driving a racing car.

[FirstnameLastname]

Only certain drivers this will effect. What we need are drivers with no moral compass. Down with opinions.

[midgrid]

notably in violation of the general principle of neutrality

This sounds very vague, and indicates to me that the intention of this regulation is simply to have some "catch-all" wording that can be used to prevent anything deemed to be "embarrassing", rather than a draconian blanket ban that would e.g. prevent the use of tribute helmets.

[FirstnameLastname]

‘Hi Ben - wanted to wear a Ukrainian helmet this weekend to show my support for them’

‘Hi Igor - this isn’t appropriate and may cause offence. Soz, no.’

[Risil]

This sounds very vague, and indicates to me that the intention of this regulation is simply to have some "catch-all" wording that can be used to prevent anything deemed to be "embarrassing", rather than a draconian blanket ban that would e.g. prevent the use of tribute helmets.

 

Of course this would put the FIA is a position of having to impose penalties arbitrarily or according to who successfully exerts pressure on them. Which is probably easier in the short-term but is guaranteed to lead to trouble.

[kosmos]

Personally I don't like some of the things Hamilton and Vettel have done. I'm here to see them race not make political statements when they are on the circuit, they can express their opinions in social media or when they are not racing.

 

Said that, it's funny they are making this when F1 races in places that don't respect basic human rights.

[Fastcake]

This sounds very vague, and indicates to me that the intention of this regulation is simply to have some "catch-all" wording that can be used to prevent anything deemed to be "embarrassing", rather than a draconian blanket ban that would e.g. prevent the use of tribute helmets.

It is a very Max Mosleian “anything I don’t like is bringing the sport into disrepute” rule.

[MJB5990]

Of all the things to bring in a rule for - clearly this is the most important. Yep.

 

Ridiculous. I can't believe the FIA don't have better things to do. 

[Taxi]

Who did Qatar bought in FIA?

[macjim]

It's how the worlds going these days, money trumps principles.

 

The IOC, FIFA, FIA, etc have all shown in recent years then now all share the same motto:    "Thou shall not upset the gravy train or stop the flow of dark money into my pockets"

 

I'm sure Bernie would have taken money from Satan to have a race in Hell, Liberty it appears are no better. 

[BleuMurmure]

It's their club, their rules.

 

I'd assume this is only for F1 related activities, paddock, race, branding etc.

So random driver can still hold a press conference at his 5 star hotel and highlight the cause he happens to believe in.

[JvsKVB77]

https://www.autospor...roval/10413112/

Well, are the FIA taking a line out of FIFA’s book, trying to shut down anything that makes their bank account contributors uncomfortable and in the process make themselves look even more ridiculous? Will drivers simply ignore this, and carry on making statements when they feel the needs too?

I’m sure this will be a fun discussion.

It is a half-decision. Drivers, teams and FIA itself have their social or other media, to share their opinion if they want. Race weekend would not bad if drivers at sport venue will do only sport things. So we don't need even approved political, religious ect. statements. 

Edited by JvsKVB77, 20 December 2022 - 11:23.

[Peat]

"Thou shall not upset the gravy train or stop the flow of dark money into my pockets"

 

 

It's existence depends on that wealthy oil-rich gravy train, not the skint blue-haired people on Twitter. 

[Risil]

It's existence depends on that wealthy oil-rich gravy train, not the skint blue-haired people on Twitter. 

 

I don't think that's right -- Ross Brawn made some interesting valedictory comments to Autosport about Liberty's role in the current boom in F1, and how a major part of that strategy has been to open up to social media and tabloid shows like Drive to Survive to regain some of the populist appeal it had in the 1990s. If you do that you have to take the concerns that bubble up through social media seriously, not just the preferences of business barons.

 

I suspect this contradiction in F1's approach will eventually undermine it, but for now everything is growing and consequently it's in everyone's interests to compromise.

[Peat]

I dunno. Maybe i'm too much of a cynical old husk now, Risil. I simply don't believe the sincerity of the whole 'stakeholder capitlaism' thing. Seems like a very thin veneer.

[Marklar]

no surprise. with the new president the FIA will no doubt surpass the FIFA soon enough

here is hoping the drivers have more balls than the footballers

Edited by Marklar, 20 December 2022 - 12:15.

[Risil]

I dunno. Maybe i'm too much of a cynical old husk now, Risil. I simply don't believe the sincerity of the whole 'stakeholder capitlaism' thing. Seems like a very thin veneer.

I think it's just how marketing works in western consumer economies now. People expect to be able to shout back and perceive any broken or mixed message as weakness.

[Pete_f1]

I don't mind a pride flag or something like that but the T shirt Lewis had on calling for police officers to be arrested was to much I believe

[Risil]

I don't mind a pride flag or something like that but the T shirt Lewis had on calling for police officers to be arrested was to much I believe

It was a lot more specific than most of the messages that were being aired that year. I remember thinking at the time that Hamilton was going a bit far. However, three police officers involved in the "search" that Hamilton drew attention to have since been indicted.

[paulb]

Kinda like a personality ban, nice. Bring on the robots.

[Risil]

The other question raised by the FIA's change of rules is what will the penalties be? Lewis for example can pay any fine the FIA could reasonably levy, so if he feels strongly about something how will they restrain him? A disqualification or loss of championship points would be incendiary. The threat of sporting penalties was of course how FIFA got English, German and Dutch soccer players to back down from making political statements during the World Cup just gone.

 

Maybe they could stop him taking part in FP1

[HistoryFan]

That's like a totalism state...

[Risil]

Kinda like a personality ban, nice. Bring on the robots.

This is the problem, right? F1's boom in popularity is built on an image of freedom, personality and individual self-expression. But F1's business is also underwritten by the financial support of much more conservative, authoritarian and hierarchical states in the Middle East, and perhaps eventually China.

[piszkosfred]

It's a president from Saudi Arabia, so no suprises.

[Primo]

Personally I don't like some of the things Hamilton and Vettel have done. I'm here to see them race not make political statements when they are on the circuit, they can express their opinions in social media or when they are not racing.

 

Said that, it's funny they are making this when F1 races in places that don't respect basic human rights.

Personally, I don't mind drivers, or anyone for that matter, to have opinions. I also applaud those who dare to speak their opinions, even if I do not like them. Some opinions are very contrary to mine, sometimes they collide heavily with mine and if it is in a matter that is important to me, I might dislike that other person. Even if it is  a F1 driver. Of course, the opposite occur as well, someone who agree with me in, to me, important matters, I tend to like more. I guess FIA want us to base our fandom, our like/dislike opinions, from the publicity photos and the driver profile a PR agency write for them. 

The regulations for the cars have for a long time aimed to make them as similar as possible so I guess it was juts a matter of time until they got around to unify the drivers. I'm curious about the FIA haircut.

 Some might think that "it is okay, they should not allow racism etcetera", but this is not about that because those things are are already, in essence, banned. No, this is about human rights, about preventing anyone from criticizing the real owners of F1 - the guys in the Middle East. 

I have been expecting this ever since the current FIA boss was announced.

EDIT: I just realized how ironic 'Liberty Media' sounds in all this

Edited by Primo, 20 December 2022 - 12:48.

[Risil]

It's a president from Saudi Arabia, so no suprises.

You're thinking of the other MBS, Ben Sulayem is from Dubai.

[William Hunt]

It's important for human rights that people also have role models, like international sports stars, who are prepared to take a public stance for themes like human rights / gender equality / equality in general. FIA should not interfere with that. It's in particular hypocrite since Liberty is known to support conservatives financially during elections: they are not neutral at all and they  are not on the same side as people who fight for human rights

[SophieB]

I wonder if it makes things better or worse to the FIA that it seems that the driver human rights statements seem to matter to the people they’ve been speaking for.

https://www.theguard...obox=1647291350

[mariner]

i wonder how this will sit with Liberty Media as a US based company?

 

Firstly being seen to be totally intertwined with an FAI which is trying to ban political comment ( it seems) puts them at risk of reputational damage.

 

Secondly the US government , whatever its good or bad points ,has reputation for both supporting human rights if it sees the downsides as limited and is very happy to impose its views beyond the USA for organisations based in , or operating in, the USA. 

That is not just a hypothetical risk because the whole FIFA corruption scandal under Blatter was brought to head by the FBI.despite FIFA being a Swis based body.

 

So ddi Liberty Media pre approve this I wonder?

[piszkosfred]

You're thinking of the other MBS, Ben Sulayem is from Dubai.

Not much of a difference.

[Muppetmad]

If particular countries wish to benefit from sportswashing, they should accept that drivers might make statements or gestures they may not like. The ridiculous situation with the armbands in Qatar this year only emphasised the power of Hamilton wearing a rainbow helmet during the Middle East stint last year.

Edited by Muppetmad, 20 December 2022 - 14:01.

[FLB]

Kinda like a personality ban, nice. Bring on the robots.

There's an 'unless approved in writing' provision in the rule. To me, that reads like their main concern is being caught by surprise, by a driver making a political statement à la Vettel in Miami (the underwater t-shirt) and Montreal (about the Alberta oilsands).

[WonderWoman61]

Ridiculous!

[absinthedude]

Piss off, F1. I am so glad I cancelled the Sky F1 subscription now. This is 100% not the message needed in the world right now. 100% the wrong decision. It's going to cause harm. This is most reprehensible.

[absinthedude]

Personally I don't like some of the things Hamilton and Vettel have done. I'm here to see them race not make political statements when they are on the circuit, they can express their opinions in social media or when they are not racing.

 

Said that, it's funny they are making this when F1 races in places that don't respect basic human rights.

 

Yeah, it's bloody hilarious.

[Sterzo]

It's a president from Saudi Arabia, so no suprises.

^ An example of the prejudice Hamilton, Vettel and others are campaigning against.

[Risil]

Not much of a difference.

Well the president of the FIA hasn't murdered anyone for a start.

[MKSixer]

The FIA is rapidly descending into the same rogue's gallery occupied by The UN, the IOC, FIFA and their supporting countries in the Middle East.  Utterly disgusting.

[Primo]

What is now the aftermath in US on the "take a knee" thing? I know clubs, maybe even the league itself, tried to prevent the players from doing it. Did they succeed to make that ban into the rule books or did higher powers punish the clubs that tried to limit their players rights to express themselves?

[FLB]

Has everybody forgotten Turkey 2006? The surprising thing about We Race As One is that it was allowed to happen at all.

 

Turkey suffers $5m fine for podium politics | Formula One | The Guardian

[RedRabbit]

Personally I don't like some of the things Hamilton and Vettel have done. I'm here to see them race not make political statements when they are on the circuit, they can express their opinions in social media or when they are not racing.

Said that, it's funny they are making this when F1 races in places that don't respect basic human rights.

It's not different though. Racing even in countries with questionable human rights is effectively being politically neutral, a stance the FIA has always adopted.

This new regulation is basically just formalizing a long held policy of the FIA that appears to have been an unwritten "gentleman's agreement".

Drivers using the platform of Formula 1 for their personal campaigns should never have been allowed. They have a high enough public profile to raise awareness of any issue outside of a race weekend, or hijacking the sports media associated to F1.

It's almost identical to work place practices that normal people have to follow.

[Aaaarrgghh]

While I was slightly miffed by the free PR that the fraudulent organisation known as Black Lives Matter received from 2020 onwards and, as a rule, get annoyed whenever someone tells me what to think regarding various political issues when all that makes me interested in them is their ability to drive a car fast (whenever a celebrity talks of using their status as a "platform", it triggers my gag reflex), I can't say that I can ever be in favour of regulated silence. But hey, this is a private enterprise, they set the rules that the participants should follow. No one is forcing them to do it. Nevertheless, this regulation puzzles me. Does it, for instance, mean that Gasly has to ask their permission to make the cross sign before the race? Because that is certainly not religiously neutral.

[RedRabbit]

It's their club, their rules.

I'd assume this is only for F1 related activities, paddock, race, branding etc.
So random driver can still hold a press conference at his 5 star hotel and highlight the cause he happens to believe in.

I believe it will be exactly this. The FIA are preferring to keep the sport neutral at the actual event, but if any driver wants to dedicate all of his spare time or the entirety of his social media presence to a cause, that's no problem.

Just don't use the platform provided by the FIA to make statements without running it by them first. Which is fair enough.

[RedRabbit]

Nevertheless, this regulation puzzles me. Does it, for instance, mean that Gasly has to ask their permission to make the cross sign before the race? Because that is certainly not religiously neutral.

I have never noticed him doing that, and I suppose the difference might be if he is doing it in a private manner, unconcerned if a camera is pointed his way, or if he would be actively seeking media attention while doing it before the race.

[FLB]

I have never noticed him doing that, and I suppose the difference might be if he is doing it in a private manner, unconcerned if a camera is pointed his way, or if he would be actively seeking media attention while doing it before the race.

Barrichello certainly did the cross sign on the podium when he won at Hockenheim in 2000.

 

Edit: Gasly on the grid: Pierre Gasly Fan Page Fr sur Twitter : "Suite au dernier annonce concernant le Code Sportif International Est-ce que Pierre va devoir arrêter son rituel d’avant chaque GP ? On va attendre une clarification de la part de la #FIA https://t.co/FwL3CbfzFW" / Twitter

Edited by FLB, 20 December 2022 - 14:14.