1760 replies to this topic

[JRodrigues]

Mohammed Ben Sulayem

 

@Ben_Sulayem

I have asked my @FIA team to look at launching an Expressions of Interest process for prospective new teams for the FIA @F1 World Championship

Edited by JRodrigues, 02 January 2023 - 17:03.

[FLB]

Here we go!   

[Risil]

Nice. Wonder if it's worth a new thread.

(Zoran, you know what to do...)

[absinthedude]

As I said, Liberty and the teams seem to have the ear of the FIA. So the FIA is doing what they want. But it's not them that's doing it - it's the FIA.

 

The buck stops with the FIA. And if they have any spine, they will follow their own rules. 

 

It appears they my finally be doing that with the latest from MBS. One thing I suspect MBS does have is a spine. Perhaps he really was tied up with the halo court case and the financial hole? 

 

Still utterly disgusted that the teams even think they have the right to exert the kind of influence they are on this matter. 

[FLB]

 

Still utterly disgusted that the teams even think they have the right to exert the kind of influence they are on this matter. 

That started under Bernie and Max to prevent FOTA and was accelerated under Todt.

[FullThrottleF1]

 

Mohammed Ben Sulayem

 

@Ben_Sulayem

I have asked my @FIA team to look at launching an Expressions of Interest process for prospective new teams for the FIA @F1 World Championship

 

Does this actually mean anything?

[FullThrottleF1]

They haven't said they will. Just 'look at' it. Might be an out. Show that they have done something when in reality maintain the status quo

[TennisUK]

I’d be more inclined to think this might pave the way for a Porsche team (using the “Audi” engine) than Andretti. That name is massively more recognisable than Andretti. I imagine a number of teams might baulk at VAG having two teams…

Personally I’d like 26 cars again, so hoping for Porsche, Andretti, and, um another team to join.

[FullThrottleF1]

I’d be more inclined to think this might pave the way for a Porsche team (using the “Audi” engine) than Andretti. That name is massively more recognisable than Andretti. I imagine a number of teams might baulk at VAG having two teams…

Personally I’d like 26 cars again, so hoping for Porsche, Andretti, and, um another team to join.

When will F1 stop trying to placate the manufacturers?

Edited by FullThrottleF1, 02 January 2023 - 18:13.

[pdac]

Does this actually mean anything?

 

One way this can be taken is it's official confirmation that Andretti's entry is currently rejected.

[TennisUK]

When will F1 stop trying to placate the manufacturers?

When there isn’t any money in it?

Ford is another one rumoured to be sniffing around at the moment.

[pdac]

The buck stops with the FIA. And if they have any spine, they will follow their own rules. 

 

It appears they my finally be doing that with the latest from MBS. One thing I suspect MBS does have is a spine. Perhaps he really was tied up with the halo court case and the financial hole? 

 

Still utterly disgusted that the teams even think they have the right to exert the kind of influence they are on this matter. 

 

The trouble is that they've all moved to a co-dependent arrangement. The FIA would have no F1 without the teams and Liberty; Liberty would have no business without the teams and the FIA; the teams would have no business without the FIA and Liberty. So, as much as they should all act independently and in their own interests, in practice that ship has sailed and they will always compromise for the good of the others.

[FLB]

I’d be more inclined to think this might pave the way for a Porsche team (using the “Audi” engine) than Andretti. That name is massively more recognisable than Andretti. I imagine a number of teams might baulk at VAG having two teams…

Personally I’d like 26 cars again, so hoping for Porsche, Andretti, and, um another team to join.

Andretti could very well be Honda's way back into F1.

[pdac]

When will F1 stop trying to placate the manufacturers?

 

That will never happen. F1 has moved on. It's turned into a money burning machine and pretty much the only organisations that can feed the monster are the manufacturers.

[FullThrottleF1]

One way this can be taken is it's official confirmation that Andretti's entry is currently rejected.

Agreed. People celebrating way too early

[FullThrottleF1]

That will never happen. F1 has moved on. It's turned into a money burning machine and pretty much the only organisations that can feed the monster are the manufacturers.

I hope they desert them, F1 needs a wakeup call

[Pete_f1]

Well the FIAVhave asked for expressions of interest for new entrants.

[FullThrottleF1]

just interest. It's not a tender

[FLB]

just interest. It's not a tender

It's the first step. If they see there's enough interest from credible parties to justify opening a tender, they'll open one. This way, this avoids opening a tender for which nobody can qualify.

 

In other words, they don't want another 2013: 

 

Formula 1 | Official: FIA opens tender for a 12th team in F1 (nextgen-auto.com) , which was followed by F1 tender fails to attract viable new teams | Reuters

Edited by FLB, 02 January 2023 - 19:05.

[917k]

That will never happen. F1 has moved on. It's turned into a money burning machine and pretty much the only organisations that can feed the monster are the manufacturers.

Turned into? Yeah, like 30 years ago….at least now there is some effort into some sort of sustainability.

[FullThrottleF1]

It's the first step. If they see there's enough interest from credible parties to justify opening a tender, they'll open one. This way, this avoids opening a tender for which nobody can qualify.

 

In other words, they don't want another 2013: 

 

Formula 1 | Official: FIA opens tender for a 12th team in F1 (nextgen-auto.com) , which was followed by F1 tender fails to attract viable new teams | Reuters

Sooo Andretti isn't a credible entity?

[FLB]

Sooo Andretti isn't a credible entity?

That's what they want to find out! 

Edited by FLB, 02 January 2023 - 19:12.

[Nathan]

When will F1 stop trying to placate the manufacturers?

 

When they stop being some of the biggest cheque writers and providing critical components to the show.  But, what motorsport doesn't? 

[FullThrottleF1]

That's what they want to find out! 

But the FIA's version of credible could be "if they don't pay 1 billion dollars right now"

 

Depends what attitude they go in with. 

 

I'm not convinced they are sincere.

Edited by FullThrottleF1, 02 January 2023 - 19:19.

[PayasYouRace]

It'll be nice if all our worries and accusations turned out to be just jumping to conclusions, and the process to get Andretti on the grid has just been churning away in the background, for it to happen when the time is right.

 

I know, I always look on the bright side.

[FullThrottleF1]

I'd love it to happen. It's just I know how these things are. I'm doubtful

[loki]

Nice. Wonder if it's worth a new thread.

(Zoran, you know what to do...)

Hey I wanted to summon “Zoran”.

 

We should do a Go Fund Me for him…       

[loki]

One way this can be taken is it's official confirmation that Andretti's entry is currently rejected.

You can’t even be considered until the tender opens.  If they open the tender and don’t choose them then it’s a rejection.  Right now it’s just a guy saying they want to join.

[kumo7]

I will keep watching the course of the development. So far nothing seems to say that Andretti is in there. But, at least FIA said something.

[pdac]

You can’t even be considered until the tender opens.  If they open the tender and don’t choose them then it’s a rejection.  Right now it’s just a guy saying they want to join.

 

Sorry, I mean that their application to be considered for an entry has been rejected for now. They will now have to wait to see if the FIA is interested in having new teams.

 

I think all the FIA is doing right now is putting together a group to figure out if there can be any consensus between the teams and Liberty about having new teams on the grid - maybe actually starting to describe what the phrase "bringing value to the grid" actually means.

[loki]

Sorry, I mean that their application to be considered for an entry has been rejected for now. They will now have to wait to see if the FIA is interested in having new teams.

 

I think all the FIA is doing right now is putting together a group to figure out if there can be any consensus between the teams and Liberty about having new teams on the grid - maybe actually starting to describe what the phrase "bringing value to the grid" actually means.

With no application period there can be no rejection.  Or acceptance.  It’s like sending a resume/CV for a job that doesn’t have any openings just yet.  When the job opens up that’s when the application process starts.  This could be the formality needed to reject his application (or to allow someone else) or it may be to let them in.  We don’t know just yet.  Either way should a tender be opened we’ll finally reach some point of resolution one way or the other.

[SparkPlug86]

If Andretti-Honda, Porsche and maybe... Ford? That would make an epic grid... that would give some potential new PU options for "customer" teams.

[FullThrottleF1]

Sorry, I mean that their application to be considered for an entry has been rejected for now. They will now have to wait to see if the FIA is interested in having new teams.

I think all the FIA is doing right now is putting together a group to figure out if there can be any consensus between the teams and Liberty about having new teams on the grid - maybe actually starting to describe what the phrase "bringing value to the grid" actually means.

Lol they'll say no then. They want money for themselves

[danmills]

They already have Haas for the supposed American arm and market. Haas have barely flickered let alone set the F1 world on fire besides questionable media coverage from a bad sponsor deal, a terrible crash (cue fire puns); a famous surname and another driver/sponsor issue.

Andretti are unfortunately not remotely attractive to F1. For fans, yes. F1 as a business, no. They don't want another Haas. 

F1 clearly has its sights on prioritising either new manufacturer based or new marketable entrants. They can't say this, but you can fill in the gaps. There is space for maybe two new teams. They know Andretti would likely survive and make up numbers at worse, but why give up a slot now when there is a higher than ever chance of a Chinese or big powertrain entrant in the next few years? The appeal is much greater, so they are holding out.

Such an entry would also lessen the reliance on the existing engine manufacturers. It's not likely, but if Mercedes pulled the plug, who fills that void to the 3 customer teams?

F1 is first and foremost a business. If they wanted Andretti, they'd have let them in and been vocal about growing the paddock. Instead, they've bullshitted the hurdles and almost pretended their interest didn't exist.

 

If I am wrong, what exactly are Andretti missing to gain entry? They have racing pedigree, experience, connections, financial stability, a business model that has track record, success, names, brand awareness and the money for the entry fee.

 

F1 has grass is greener eyes on someone else.

 

If Andretti approached with Chevrolet or Hyundai backing they'd be granted a slot in an instant.

 

I predict Red Bull will drop Honda for their own PUs and Honda apply with Andretti as a full works team, if not with or buying Alpha Tauri. 

Edited by danmills, 02 January 2023 - 23:37.

[Risil]

Bird in the hand etc

[Fastcake]

Hate to say I told you so, but I did say there was no point in getting too worked up over the Andretti entry until the FIA actually opened an entry process.

 

It will be interesting how much interest there is.

[KLF1F]

Team Saudi Aramco incoming $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

[noikeee]

It's nice that they're looking at looking, at starting, an evaluation of a possible procedure, for a tender, for gathering expressions of interest, towards designing proposals, for potentially idealising mockups of bids, for possibly putting together proposals for potential new Formula 1 entries of alleged teams. Maybe.

[pdac]

They already have Haas for the supposed American arm and market. Haas have barely flickered let alone set the F1 world on fire besides questionable media coverage from a bad sponsor deal, a terrible crash (cue fire puns); a famous surname and another driver/sponsor issue.

Andretti are unfortunately not remotely attractive to F1. For fans, yes. F1 as a business, no. They don't want another Haas. 

F1 clearly has its sights on prioritising either new manufacturer based or new marketable entrants. They can't say this, but you can fill in the gaps. There is space for maybe two new teams. They know Andretti would likely survive and make up numbers at worse, but why give up a slot now when there is a higher than ever chance of a Chinese or big powertrain entrant in the next few years? The appeal is much greater, so they are holding out.

Such an entry would also lessen the reliance on the existing engine manufacturers. It's not likely, but if Mercedes pulled the plug, who fills that void to the 3 customer teams?

F1 is first and foremost a business. If they wanted Andretti, they'd have let them in and been vocal about growing the paddock. Instead, they've bullshitted the hurdles and almost pretended their interest didn't exist.

 

If I am wrong, what exactly are Andretti missing to gain entry? They have racing pedigree, experience, connections, financial stability, a business model that has track record, success, names, brand awareness and the money for the entry fee.

 

F1 has grass is greener eyes on someone else.

 

If Andretti approached with Chevrolet or Hyundai backing they'd be granted a slot in an instant.

 

I predict Red Bull will drop Honda for their own PUs and Honda apply with Andretti as a full works team, if not with or buying Alpha Tauri. 

 

My feeling is an Andretti entry is being resisted by the existing teams - not the FIA or Liberty. I would guess that Liberty would be quite happy to have another US team on board. I don't think it's a given that if they came along with Chevrolet or Hyundai they'd be straight in. I think the existing teams would still resist.

 

But you are correct - it's about the business and also about who has power within the business. Clearly some team bosses wield some power - otherwise why would the FIA or Liberty be so cold to the Andretti approach? Those bosses would like to maintain their power and influence so will be very resistant to anyone coming in that might try to muscle them out of the way. It's about money and it's about votes.

[Myrvold]

Team Saudi Aramco incoming $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$

 

Also knowns as Aston Martin, no?

Edited by Myrvold, 03 January 2023 - 01:19.

[danmills]

Stroll allegedly just upped his share of Aston Martin after a mega offer by that same recent Chinese guy. He really is investing long term in that team.

[Nathan]

"Expressions of Interest process"

 

This doesn't read to me like they are inviting team bids, it reads more Ben wants there to be a defined process on how to one day do that.

[player1s]

It's the first step. If they see there's enough interest from credible parties to justify opening a tender, they'll open one. This way, this avoids opening a tender for which nobody can qualify.

 

In other words, they don't want another 2013: 

 

Formula 1 | Official: FIA opens tender for a 12th team in F1 (nextgen-auto.com) , which was followed by F1 tender fails to attract viable new teams | Reuters

 

2013 happened because they lured the teams in with a promised budget cap and did a 180..

 

It always triggers me when people slam the new teams of 2013 while ignoring that very important fact.

Same with the 1997 Lola. Everyone s**ts on the team but forgets the important aspect of Mastercard forcing them to join a year early.

[FullThrottleF1]

You are thinking of 2010 no?

[FullThrottleF1]

It's nice that they're looking at looking, at starting, an evaluation of a possible procedure, for a tender, for gathering expressions of interest, towards designing proposals, for potentially idealising mockups of bids, for possibly putting together proposals for potential new Formula 1 entries of alleged teams. Maybe.

This gave me a good chuckle

[pdac]

"Expressions of Interest process"

 

This doesn't read to me like they are inviting team bids, it reads more Ben wants there to be a defined process on how to one day do that.

 

Indeed. It reads to me like the FIA responding to Andretti pressuring them to accept his entry. They could have 3 responses:

 

1. Ignore him - which they've tried to do, but he keeps bringing the issue up in the press
2. Open a tender and consider his application
3. Put together a team to show that they are responding, but with the team given the remit to find justification to not open a tender at this time

So I think this is more about officially rejecting him (and anyone else) rather than starting a process to accept more teams.

[FullThrottleF1]

Indeed. It reads to me like the FIA responding to Andretti pressuring them to accept his entry. They could have 3 responses:

• Ignore him - which they've tried to do, but he keeps bringing the issue up in the press
• Open a tender and consider his application
• Put together a team to show that they are responding, but with the team given the remit to find justification to not open a tender at this time

So I think this is more about officially rejecting him (and anyone else) rather than starting a process to accept more teams.

Agreed. Just a way to get the heat ofg

[PayasYouRace]

Just to provide an alternative point of view, so far this is the first word we’ve heard from the FIA on the matter.

It’s just an assumption (that I’ve been guilty of making too) that the FIA don’t want to approve Andretti’s entry. However, it could well be that behind the scenes the work is going on to do so, and this is the first step.

We know from Haas that the tender process is flexible enough. Haas didn’t respond to a tender. They wanted to enter and the moves were made to get them in.

[FirstnameLastname]

From Glen Freeman on Twitter:

For Andretti, #F1 announcing a formal process to look for new teams is a bit like if you've been asking someone out for the best part of a year, then they do a social media post saying they're hoping to get into a relationship and just need the right person to come along 💔

[cpbell]

That will never happen. F1 has moved on. It's turned into a money burning machine and pretty much the only organisations that can feed the monster are the manufacturers.

Hasn't the cost cap reduced the importance of the manufacturers slightly?