26 replies to this topic

[Bloggsworth]

Get your cheque-books ready:

 

https://www.thisismo...DQzNDc2LjAuMC4w

[JacnGille]

Are Cornucopia Elans convertibles or hardtops????  

[404KF2]

The window frames in the doors always struck me as a very off-putting feature of these.

[john aston]

My favourite small sportscar ever. I still rue the day I missed  buying an Elan Sprint fhc in 1977 - for £1200 ...   

[Gary C]

Wow, there's some famous owners in there!

[BRG]

The window frames in the doors always struck me as a very off-putting feature of these.

They were problematic.  After my mate rolled his Sprint at Goodwood, the rebuild stalled as he struggled to source new window frames, the original ones now being flattened.  Efforts to restore them were fruitless. Sadly, he died before ever completing the rebuild.

 

But what a wonderful collection!  Although I am a little annoyed at one man hogging so many of these incredible little cars!

[Doug Nye]

Rather odd statement in that website - "This 1968 Elan S3-SE was gifted to Rob Walker in 1968 to mark Stirling Moss's legendary Monaco Grand Prix win in 1971 at the wheel of a Rob Walker Racing Lotus. It should sell for a price in the area of £50,000 - £80,000".

 

Hmmm - eh?...  

 

DCN

[Gary C]

I didn't spotted one, Doug. 1961?

[AJB2]

Rather odd statement in that website - "This 1968 Elan S3-SE was gifted to Rob Walker in 1968 to mark Stirling Moss's legendary Monaco Grand Prix win in 1971 at the wheel of a Rob Walker Racing Lotus. It should sell for a price in the area of £50,000 - £80,000".

 

Hmmm - eh?...  

 

DCN

Only in the photo - it's correct in the body of the text. 

[opplock]

Only in the photo - it's correct in the body of the text. 

 

Sloppy rather than stupid then. Either way it wouldn't encourage me to buy a used car from them. 

 

#4  While waiting for my Caterham to be serviced earlier this year I spent some time contemplating an Elan Sprint. 1971, 7,000 miles, £44,000. If I had a bigger garage..... The creators of No 6 and Emma Peel have a lot to answer for.  

[jcbc3]

Sloppy rather than stupid then. Either way it wouldn't encourage me to buy a used car from them. 

 

...

 

Yeah, I wouldn't buy a car from the internet site This is money either. But I might from SIlverstone Auctions though.

[Doug Nye]

Before passing on something that a friend has just told me, I must register a conflicting interest since I have for donkey's years been a consultant to a rival auction house.  

 

However, as someone who knew Keith Duckworth and had several dealings with him I have been told by a mutual friend that his original Lotus Elan under the registration number now offered was in fact sold by Keith "...to a friend, who gave it to"...a specialist restorer..."to restore".

 

According to my informant "It caught fire and was burnt to the ground and written off" - so from that (NB - IF TRUE) it would appear that a replacement assembly subsequently inherited the relevant registration...  

 

DCN

Edited by Doug Nye, 08 January 2023 - 19:44.

[Myhinpaa]

The Duckworth Elan is mentioned in this thread: 

 

https://lotuselan.ne...t=23037&start=0

 

 

 

Auction description: https://www.silverst...531&pn=1&pp=100

[jcbc3]

 

 

 

Auction description: https://www.silverst...531&pn=1&pp=100

 

It says:

 

 

"Pleasingly the chassis, body and engine are all original"

 

So, if not there would be grounds for a false advertising claim?

[brucemoxon]

Is 'cornucopia' the correct word?

Should it not be a 'lightness'? 

 

 

 

 

BRM

[Dick Dastardly]

The Rob Walker Elan...seems a long gap [7 years] to be gifted it, in 1968, following Stirling Moss's victory in the 1961 Monaco GP.......maybe the donor also wanted to recognise Rob Walker as the winning entrant in the 1968 British GP when Seppi Siffert won in a Lotus 49?  

Edited by Dick Dastardly, 09 January 2023 - 18:07.

[Bloggsworth]

Is 'cornucopia' the correct word?

Should it not be a 'lightness'? 

 

 

 

 

BRM

Or a legerity...

[Myhinpaa]

The Rob Walker Elan...seems a long gap [7 years] to be gifted it, in 1968, following Stirling Moss's victory in the 1961 Monaco GP.......maybe the donor also wanted to recognise Rob Walker as the winning entrant in the 1968 British GP when Seppi Siffert won in a Lotus 49?  

 

It comes out differently in the auction description though: https://www.silverst...528&pn=1&pp=100

 

"He (Rob Walker) also had a successful dealership at Corsley near Warminster supplying Jaguars, Austins and MGs as well as Neville Trickett’s much-acclaimed Minisprint. It was through Rob Walker Garages that the first owner of JXF 20F ordered this bespoke Elan S3 DHC. It was an SE model and was specially finished in Rob Walker’s signature Ford Midnight Blue, we understand, to commemorate Stirling Moss’ legendary win at Monatco in 1961 aboard the Rob Walker Racing Lotus 18. Moss carried race number 20 on that day which is reflected in the ‘20’ in the Elan’s registration number."

Edited by Myhinpaa, 10 January 2023 - 09:57.

[Doug Nye]

Seppi's winning Walker Lotus 49 at Brands in 1968 was race No 22...

 

DCN

[john aston]

Or a legerity...

 Or a 'fragility' perhaps ?  

[2F-001]

 Or a 'fragility' perhaps ?  

A 'delicacy' might be more tactfully ambiguous...?

[AJB2]

I see from the article that Peter Sellers presented a Shapecraft (?) Elan coupe (not one of the cars for sale) to his then fiancee, Britt Ekland.

[Myhinpaa]

 

 

 

 

https://lotuselan.ne...&t=23767&start=

 

https://www.gettyima...photo/483598155

Edited by Myhinpaa, 10 January 2023 - 15:17.

[trw999]

Before passing on something that a friend has just told me, I must register a conflicting interest since I have for donkey's years been a consultant to a rival auction house.  

 

However, as someone who knew Keith Duckworth and had several dealings with him I have been told by a mutual friend that his original Lotus Elan under the registration number now offered was in fact sold by Keith "...to a friend, who gave it to"...a specialist restorer..."to restore".

 

According to my informant "It caught fire and was burnt to the ground and written off" - so from that (NB - IF TRUE) it would appear that a replacement assembly subsequently inherited the relevant registration...  

 

DCN

 

Hi Doug,

 

For the sake of clarity and historical accuracy I have posted on elan.net the current owner's verified account of the fire and restoration of the Duckworth Elan, which I reproduce here: 

 

"I wish to reassure you and all others reading this thread that the Duckworth Elan at auction at Race Retro is indeed the very car gifted to Keith Duckworth. It was invoiced by the factory in February 1968. No Colour Code or Engine No is recorded against the car, which was built up by the factory. This concurs with other cars gifted by the factory. Similarly, there is no dealer name but the first owner is recorded as D. LK. Duckworth (sic). The car was registered in Northamptonshire on 7 Jun 68.

We now come to that part of the story where I suspect some confusion has arisen. Around 2005 the car caught fire and was declared an insurance write-off. However, the fire had taken hold only around the carburetors, the remainder of the car being original. The car was then purchased back from the salvage company by Ken and Neil Myers and stripped, with the intention of a full restoration when funds permitted.

In 2016 the consignor agreed to pay for the restoration and to purchase the car. Once the car had been restored DVLA was approached for a V5, with the help and support of Club Lotus. Even the police confirmed that the identity of the car was legitimate and approved the re-registration. I do not know what more the consignor of the car, the DVLA, the police or Club Lotus could do to confirm the originality of this Elan. In addition, it would be incumbent on the auction house to satisfy themselves as to the legitimacy of this or any other car they put up for public auction.

I hope this puts your mind, as well as those of others, at rest over this matter."

 

I have viewed this car and the rest of the collection going under the hammer on a number of occasions and know the vendor well. I also tracked down the Rindt Elan for him. In talking with him further about the Duckworth Elan he told me that Keith sold the Elan to a very close friend of his, Roger Kimbell, who it was that sent the car to Ken Myers. The front end of the car was a mess after the fire but the chassis was not damaged. The cylinder head and carbs were destroyed, however. The rest of the body took Ken and Neil many hours to get back to the exhibition quality state it is in now. 

 

On the underside of the roof is crayoned into the fiberglass both the Body Number and the script 'Show Car'. This crayoned information was used on most body panels by the factory. The show car reference is intriguing as is the auction house note that Keith believed the car to have been a Series 4 Elan prototype, though at the time Lotus tended to use the term development car. The S4 was introduced in Mar 1968, which could tie in with the invoice date of Feb 1968 (the Elan invoice book is the only extant way in which the factory archivist can date a car from this era, most other records having been lost or destroyed, unfortunately). However, I do not believe the show would have been the 1967 Earls Court one, since that was dominated by the launch of the Elan +2 by Lotus. I therefore wonder if it could have been on the Lotus stand at the January Autospeed '68 (London Racing Car Show); I have been able to find any information or photographs of which cars were on the stand that year.

 

Tim

 

 

 

[Myhinpaa]

There's a mention of the Elan in the official Keith Duckworth biography, "First Principles" by Norman Burr.

 

The owner (RK) describes to the author how the car caught fire coming back from its MOT test.

There's also a mention of that the S4 was the second Elan Duckworth had got from Lotus,

 

Go to page 304 in the link below, page 260 for how the eventual buyer of the Elan first met Keith Duckworth,

 

First Principles: The Official Biography of Keith Duckworth

[Rupertlt1]

A dark-coloured Shapecraft Elan, #28, showed up at the Macau Grand Prix in 1965.

Said to be the car of Stanley Leong, it did not run in the GP but in one of the support races? S. T. S. Leong?

The first race on the Saturday was the

Automobile Club de Portugal Trophy race

for G.T. cars and this turned into a straight

fight between John Kirk, entered by

Harpers, the Ford agents, in the ex-Warner

Elan, and Albert Poon in the works-prepared

Triumph Spitfire Le Mans. After taking an

early lead Poon was held up when lapping

a rather slow Honda and the Elan went on

to an easy win.

Later sold to Walter Haskamp of Hong Kong the Shapecraft reappeared in Macau in 1969, painted a light colour.

Driven by Gordon Boyce from Taiwan it won the ACP Trophy Race.

Boyce and Haskamp shared the car in the Grand Prix, also #28.

 

What happened to this car?

 

The "Warner Elan" was from 1963: "The car was subsequently bought by Hong Kong Lotus agent Arthur Pateman."

(Arthur Pateman won the Macao Grand Prix in 1957 driving a Mercedes 300 SL.)

 

Malaysia Grand Prix, Singapore, 28-30 March 1964  

Kirk will drive a Lotus

Warner Elan in both the

sports cars and Grands Prix

events. This car was formerly

known as Love I. (sic)

The Straits Times, 6 February 1964, Page 19

 

1966: Haskamp entered at Batu Tiger, September, in the "Warner Elan."

5th Tunku Abdul Rahman Races, Formula Libre: 3rd Steve Holland, Hong Kong, Warner Elan.

 

1967: "William Gray of Hong Kong in a Lotus Elan won the ACP (Automobile Club of Portugal) trophy race one of three events held yesterday in conjunction with the 14th Macao Grand Prix." Gray, #27; Haskamp was in the GP, #25.

 

RGDS RLT

Edited by Rupertlt1, 25 September 2023 - 03:45.

[Myhinpaa]

Before passing on something that a friend has just told me, I must register a conflicting interest since I have for donkey's years been a consultant to a rival auction house.  

 

However, as someone who knew Keith Duckworth and had several dealings with him I have been told by a mutual friend that his original Lotus Elan under the registration number now offered was in fact sold by Keith "...to a friend, who gave it to"...a specialist restorer..."to restore".

 

According to my informant "It caught fire and was burnt to the ground and written off" - so from that (NB - IF TRUE) it would appear that a replacement assembly subsequently inherited the relevant registration...  

 

DCN

 

The car was eventually sold for £25k by Classic Car Auctions at their Christmas Sale in Warwick on the 9th of December.

More information was added to the description this time, and the car had also been back with the restorer for some more work.

 

https://www.classicc...&el=6226&pp=100