808 replies to this topic

[Alburaq]

According to AMuS, Alpine tested a new concept for 2023 alongside the 2022 one but opted to retain the latter.

 

But the A523 "is visibly different from its predecessor, with significant changes, especially at the rear."

https://auto-motor-u...mgebautes-heck/

 

First, 2 words on the A522: At the beginning, it looked like a sleeper or a Q car: it had  a very basic and conservative bodywork, but underneath, it was an aggressive design. On the inside, it looks like a top team & a factory team car and is full of details that are intended to have the most compact skeleton. It's clear, as Harman said, that Alpine has mostly focused on the mechanical core of the A522 first, to produce the best possible platform for aero development, and preferred to start the season with a basic aero.

 

The aggressive aero development only showed up during the summer and the biggest update was at Silverstone with the appearance of the so called A522B. This is the car that allowed Alpine to reduce the gap on P1 (in race and qualy), but it was also more consistent and versatile, and it solved the tire wear problem that hampered many of the first races.

All in all it was a rather good season performance-wise. The team achieved its goals of regaining P4 and continues to close the gap on P1 in qualy and race. The A522 did better than 2020 which was the best reference. And IMO the A523 can make bigger steps towards the front. 

 

An early version of the A522 in the wind tunnel

 

 

 

A522A / A522B

Edited by Alburaq, 12 January 2023 - 08:22.

[Alburaq]

My predictions for A523


 
1- bigger front wing.
A522 FW is one of the smallest, if not the smallest (short shord line, quite low camber, small surface), the drivers had too much understeer in many tracks, that's why Alpine tended to put a smaller rear wing in some tracks after Fp1 and onwards. The car seemed to lack front DF.
 

 
2- higher front suspension wishbones.
A522 has one of the lowest front bottom wishbones on the grid. So they could be raised in 2023 like many cars in 2022, to clear the way towards tunnels mouths and be used to downwash the FW air towards them.
 

 
3- pushed back cockpit
Alpine could take inspiration from RB here & push the cockpit rearwards in order to narrow down the boat area (blue) & have more space for the tunnels laterally (green). They could push the lower impact structures backwards too to have more tunnel space vertically (orange). & they could use the boat & the floor (red) more, as a big storage space like RB, to empty down the sidepod undercuts and have larger ones.
In this case, Alpine could lengthen the wheelbase. Theirs is shorter than RB or Mercedes, so after having lengthened the monocoque, they could alter the wheelbase to keep the weight distribution the same.


 

 
4- bigger / streamlined sidepod undercuts?
A522 had a different undercut compared to the other early 3 ramp-shaped-sidepods cars. The A522 front undercut is more classic & is turning air more aggressively (less aggressive than Ferrari, MCL, Williams) towards the floor edge wing to generate some additional floor front DF (hence the smaller FW?)
A522B got an addition front undercut above the 1st one later.
 

 
5- Will Alpine dig its sidepod top channels / water slides further?
Alpine could remove that crest above the exhausts by replacing the pipes with more horizontal manifolds, and have a straighter path for the air towards the rear of the car, similar to MP426.. but I doubt it. That crest/hump is probably beneficial and attracts more air in the hill by creating a lower pressure zone (lift)... Maybe Alpine will just smooth it down.
 

Edited by Alburaq, 12 January 2023 - 08:36.

[RedRabbit]

Great post. Implementing all of those changes to the car would be quite a seriously big change, and a bit surprising under the budget cap.

I expect the more successful cars to be subtle evolutions from season end 2022 models, of which the Alpine is one.

The only cars that might be radically different are Aston Martin and McLaren.

[JL14]

Great post. Implementing all of those changes to the car would be quite a seriously big change, and a bit surprising under the budget cap.

I expect the more successful cars to be subtle evolutions from season end 2022 models, of which the Alpine is one.

The only cars that might be radically different are Aston Martin and McLaren.

Alfa Tauri is going for a complete concept change

[Alburaq]

The only big change in this case would be the monocoque with its relocated cockpit. The other changes would be normal season-to-season changes.

And Permane alluded to exhaust and/or radiator changes, for more agressive sidepods ; ) 
But yeah, I wont be surprised if Enstone keeps the same monocoque and gearbox as 2022. First because thy are Enstone, stingy AF : D

Edited by Alburaq, 12 January 2023 - 14:44.

[Alburaq]

https://racingnews36...-modern-f1-cars
 

"We've taken quite a considerable amount of weight out of next year's car, and some of that is to do with understanding the cars boundary conditions more, so understanding some of the loadings, or the suspension.

"We've been able to do some of this just through clever engineering and different systems that we've put in the car to reduce the weight.

"I'm pretty sure that there won't be a car on the grid next year that's so over the weight limit, I'm hopeful that our car will be quite considerably under so we can actually move some ballast around." Matt Harman

 

Edited by Alburaq, 14 January 2023 - 10:51.

[vee10]

https://twitter.com/...975089957142530

 

Emulating the old classic engine dyno video.

 

Sounds lovely.

Edited by vee10, 27 January 2023 - 15:56.

[Ferrim]

I predict a strong season for Alpine.

[Alburaq]

Never saw that dyno before. Actually it's the first time I see a full car test bench with a formula one car in it, not an F3, FE or a Mercedes SLK at AVL    

But is this the 'Virtual Test Track' that they just purchased? it could be the less advanced super-dyno they bought in 2019

Anyway, it's beautiful.

And I initially thought that's an A522 bodywork, without the mirrors and some side panels (red arrows)

https://pbs.twimg.co...=jpg&name=large

But as Scarbs pointed out, it might be an A523, the sidepod shoulder seem to have an RB-like crease on it 

https://pbs.twimg.co...=jpg&name=large

In that case, could be the purple and green-colored parts (top left) be the actual bodywork of the A523? not internal ducting and shielding (arrows)?
That would be interesting. --> Alpine WCC and WDC at Spa.
 

Edited by Alburaq, 28 January 2023 - 07:58.

[FLB]

Rumz sur Twitter : "@PhoenixSTK19 Esteban deleted insta story…showing a small fin that is new and maybe it’s just me but why dors the sidepod inlet almost look stepped? Or is that like a smaller inlet slightly behind the main inlet? https://t.co/LciJn7MIho" / Twitter

[JL14]

Rumz sur Twitter : "@PhoenixSTK19 Esteban deleted insta story…showing a small fin that is new and maybe it’s just me but why dors the sidepod inlet almost look stepped? Or is that like a smaller inlet slightly behind the main inlet? https://t.co/LciJn7MIho" / Twitter

 

Looks like a small (height-wise) inlet a la Red Bull.

https://pbs.twimg.co...=jpg&name=large

Edited by JL14, 11 February 2023 - 15:21.

[Alburaq]

The top sidepod cover is missing, which exposes the side impact structure, like on the A522B picture below

(but this car has a bit longer top sideod panel)

 

And this is clearly a new car, the one that was lapping at Bahrain (virtually) on that dyno. It shows many small changes compared to A522, and the monocoque is not the same as A522. 

 

Edited by Alburaq, 11 February 2023 - 17:28.

[eREr]

Shakedown was completed today at Silverstone.

https://twitter.com/...drfofB62sA&s=19

[rootten]

I'm expecting an evolution from last year

 

looking at other teams that launched so far, they have been copying Alpine ramp solution 

[pryanjack]

I'm expecting an evolution from last year

looking at other teams that launched so far, they have been copying Alpine ramp solution

So true, a compliment no doubt, good news that the shakedown went smoothly and Gasly felt positive

[pryanjack]

I'm expecting an evolution from last year

looking at other teams that launched so far, they have been copying Alpine ramp solution

So true, a compliment no doubt, good news that the shakedown went smoothly and Gasly felt positive

[liamski]

Leak shot here. Taken as usual with a Potato Cam....

 

https://www.reddit.c...nt=share_button

[ARTGP]

The A523 lives:

 

[kumo7]

The A523 lives:

 

The cars started to look very, very similar.

It was a dream for just a year.

[Clrnc]

Not that similar tbh, just more towards the RB concept.

This one seems like they are building on their own last year concept with slightly more aggressive contours.

Only Haas went for a different route, with a completely similar Ferrari sidepod

[Alburaq]

Nose looks lower & longer but it's probably because the FW center section has been raised and maybe retracted
Raised bottom front wishbone?
2m x 2cm mirrors?
Big sidepod shoulder 'RB' rib on BWT (maybe they combined it with the ramp ridge like Mclaren)
Cannon tubes a bit higher and slimmer like some other cars
Shark fin almost gone (eaten up by longer or swept back engine cover?) revealing the small rear outlets

 

Car looks like an A522C, with A522A sidepod lower flancs, but we didnt see the water slides, floor, suspensions, beam wing, cooling etc yet : P

 

And maybe they pushed the cockpit backwards (which could explain the 'disappearance' of the shark fin), and that could have a big impact on the whole car. 

 

Edited by Alburaq, 14 February 2023 - 07:47.

[Beri]

If the shark fin is gone, then the engine cover has taken that place. Because the shark fin, or a similar solution like the engine cover itself, is mandatory. Just look at Haas to see at which lengths teams will have to go.

[Alburaq]

And the (much) higher cannon exits, that seem to be as high as the Halo rear feet, have taken some of that shark fin space too

Edited by Alburaq, 14 February 2023 - 09:27.

[Stephane]

But the fin is there. Just with a lot of sunshine reflecting on it.

[Anja]

Not sure if we should be worried about the sidepods, everyone else has a lot more undercut. On the plus side the rear packaging seems visibly tighter.

Edited by Anja, 14 February 2023 - 09:47.

[rootten]

It is interesting to see that the FW concept (at least main plates) does not change that much. Of course taking into account the low quality of the picture.

 

I mean, I remember the times where the Renault team was bringing revisions to the FW every other weened and even changing the concept of FW altogether. It was in 2010 when Kubica was driving for them.

[rootten]

Not sure if we should be worried about the sidepods, everyone else has a lot more undercut. On the plus side the rear packaging seems visibly tighter.

 

True, but Alpha Tauri had that concept from the very beginning of last season. Didn't help them that much....

 

I'm not criticising the concept, I'm just saying that this is a single element of a whole package.

 

This shape of the sidepod undercut is for sealing the flor. If they are happy with they way they approach this problem then it's OK

[Alburaq]

Why should one be worried about the sidepod undercut? It's simply a different philosphy. The new AM too adopts that Alpine style undercut where the lower bodywork almost turns at 90° for outwash and to power-up the floor edge winglets.

Like Ferrari/Haas too, but their undercut is much shorter.
These teams have A lot of empty room in that area and can have bigger undercuts if they want. 

Last year Alpine had rectangular radiators there + big spacers beside them to fill the voids that separated them from the outer bodywork : )

Edited by Alburaq, 14 February 2023 - 10:09.

[Alburaq]

And if Alpine kept the deep water slides, the engine cover might have a funky look, like Mclaren who combined the RB style ribs with the ramp ridges

Edited by Alburaq, 14 February 2023 - 10:03.

[Ali623]

[SRK]

This is probably the most direct evolution in the entire grid so far. I'm not saying it's good or bad, time will tell.

 

At least the hubcaps are different. New are coloured

Edited by SRK, 14 February 2023 - 16:21.

[Amz964]

Yeah very clear evolution of the A522 but that was to be expected. Interesting it seems they still have a very small front wing in comparison to others although is very difficult to tell in the pics.

[Alburaq]

The devil is in the details.
Pushrods at the rear 

 

[Alburaq]

The devil is also in all those Abstergo Industries logos at the rear.

 

Alpine = Templars confirmed. 

Edited by Alburaq, 14 February 2023 - 17:07.

[dn12005]

The devil is in the details.
Pushrods at the rear 

 

 

So, if they've gone pushrods to the rear, does that mean they've also gone pull in the front; or is it feasible to have both front and rear to be pushrods?  I have been under the assumption that it has to be opposing setups front to rear.  

 

Have there been any instance from past cars to run the same suspension setup front to back; if so, how did those cars perform?

 

My very un-technical brain is telling me that if it is pushrod both front and back (and it's a successful implementation), then that is a trick that will be hard for any team to copy!  I hope that's the case...because I'm ready to get high on hopium!!!

[Alburaq]

The fronts are still pushrods ; ) (but the other front suspension membres look new including the steering arms)

 

or is it feasible to have both front and rear to be pushrods?

 

 

Of course. You can have totally different front and rear suspensions.

 

Have there been any instance from past cars to run the same suspension setup front to back; if so, how did those cars perform?

 

 

Since I watch F1 (2003), the very vast majority of f1 cars (or even 100%) had pushrods, front and rear (until 2009 when Newey decided to put pull rods at the rear for aerodynamic reasons, as always, and it became a trend)...
Wasnt Alonso's 2001 Minardi one of the last cars of that era with pull rods at the front? 
 

Edited by Alburaq, 14 February 2023 - 19:02.

[Amz964]

I haven't paid much attention to the other teams suspension but if we do have both pushrod front and back are we the only team to do so?

[Alburaq]

Alpha and Alfa have pushrods on both ends since 2022 ; )

[Amz964]

Alpha and Alfa have pushrods on both ends since 2022 ; )

Shows how much attention I have been paying haha

[pryanjack]

Looks fast

[kumo7]

The devil is in the details.
Pushrods at the rear 

 

 

Just my impression that the car places driver at very much front of the car, nearly as much as Merc does...

[Alburaq]

Like 2022?
 

 

[rootten]

 

The shape of the vanity panel on the nose doesn't seem to be matching perfectly with the chassis shape, on the connection point

 

Probably we should expect to see some changes there in the future

[WouterF1]

 

 

alpinef1team

 

16.2.23 // 20:00 GMT
Don’t miss it

https://www.instagra.../p/CorjHRErx37/

Edited by WouterF1, 15 February 2023 - 14:48.

[Silberpfeil]

Maybe it’s the quality of the pictures, but the floor looks fairly visibly different, a bit simpler, I think? I’ll be interested to see if that’s the actual specification we’ll see at testing. Also looks like we’ll have smaller and even more forward-oriented sidepod inlets, at least (that’s what it looks like in relation to the cockpit).

[Alburaq]

The floor edge design barely changed compared to last 2022 GP, but the frontal area of the floor, the tunnel entries seem higher/bigger to me.
The sidepod intake retains the square shape but it seems to be a bit smaller and a bit more forward indeed.

On of the big changes is the suspension geometries. The front lower wishbone is higher and both wishbone triangle are in a quite agressive nose-up position like RB and Alfa since 2022 (and AM in 2023), while the rear wishbones, especially the top one seem to be in a more nose-down position like RB. Alpine has clearly followed RB here.  

The raised FW central section is an interesting (and surprising) move too... But Mercedes (and maybe Red Bull) did a similar thing... 
And the flatter (and seemingly wider?) nose is an interesting change too.
2022 BCN - 2023

 

Edited by Alburaq, 16 February 2023 - 07:37.

[rootten]

Here we go

[Disgrace]

If Laurent Rossi's shawl lapel tuxedo jacket and white sneaker combination is any guide, the season is a write-off.

[TheAviator]

Terrible launch

[Anja]

First three races in pink again...