808 replies to this topic

[rootten]

They are presenting last year's car on the stage? 

[Spillage]

With so much black on the grid this year I have actually grown to like Alpine's rather ghastly pink-blue colour clash.

[Disgrace]

They are presenting last year's car on the stage? 

 

The pink version looks suspiciously like the same show car they displayed last year, alright. But I think the blue is the real deal.

[Anja]

The pink version looks suspiciously like the same show car they displayed last year, alright. But I think the blue is the real deal.

 

Yeah, I assume at this time of the year the teams only have one car ready?

[rootten]

The pink version looks suspiciously like the same show car they displayed last year, alright. But I think the blue is the real deal.

 

The blue one looks like last year's car

[JL14]

The blue one looks like last year's car

It is. You can see it from the nosecone alone already.

 

Expect the 523 to be packed up for pre-season testing already.

[Disgrace]

The blue one looks like last year's car

 

Just a layman of course, but I think it's the new car, albeit with 2022 bits bolted on, such as the entire nose and front wing.

[Viryfan]

Just a layman of course, but I think it's the new car, albeit with 2022 bits bolted on, such as the entire nose and front wing.

I think the blue car still had pull rod on the rear while the A523 had push rod.

[ARTGP]

[ARTGP]

Sidepods look beautiful with the water slide.  New rear wing shape as well. 

Edited by ARTGP, 16 February 2023 - 21:25.

[rootten]

well, those renders are missing details that we already saw on the photos from the shakedown 

[ARTGP]

well, those renders are missing details that we already saw on the photos from the shakedown 

 

So it would seem. Once again, there are 3 different cars doing the rounds. How very Alpine 

[mclarensmps]

I really like how Alpine is refining their own concept with their car! The McLaren fan is looking at you and Aston Martin with clenched teeth!

[Dolph]

Terrible launch

 

 

20 minutes out of 70 were dedicated to women racers.

 

4 minutes were the actual drivers.

 

I don't understand who do they think their audience is?

[Goron3]

Genuinely think both Aston and Alpine will be much closer to third place in the WCC than to McLaren.

Sounds like they've done a great job integrating the PU into the car, so along with the reliability upgrades they should be in a good position.

[TheAviator]

Car looks like it will be fast, sidepods look bananas from the top view but from the sides, the sidepods and color just look a bit drab to me.

I think it will easily be 4th best car.

[Gambelli]

You'd think with their colour scheme and Ocon's racing number that they'd be a no brainer for Baskin Robbins sponsorship....

[Alburaq]

I liked the launch. 

Matt Harman talking about F1 cars, [50:55 - 56:50]... Music to my ears.

 

 

Interestingly, he says the cooling system is smaller (esp the centerline one), but they also reduced charge air temperature & gained power.

*that T° is limited by the rules, it must be 10° above ambient temperature...

 

They mentioned the "new testing facilities" several times (the full car test dyno). It's probably a game changer for Viry and Enstone.

 

Rear-end is lighter too (Harman). He confirms A523 will be below minimum weight & will have plenty of ballast to play with.

Mass distribution is mandated, with a small leeway, but thx to this, distribution & center of gravity height will be optimal.

https://twitter.com/...181041495867392

 

The water slides

and the new RB-style rib is now combined with the long ridge on the sidepod shoulder, like Mclaren

 

 

Except pushrod (green), rear suspension is similar. Small span top wishbone, swept forward lower leading arm (blue), separated driveshaft + rear arm (orange) & track rod (red)

 

This also shows how much slimmer the car got around the smaller centerline cooling system (purple)

 

 

 

Not the same angle, but this shows the big differences in the wishbones height and layout, the front wing and nose design etc. (FW is not entirely representative of the real one)

 

 

Pics from Nextgen-Auto, Getty Images and Alpine F1 Team

Edited by Alburaq, 17 February 2023 - 08:12.

[lewislorenzo]

Interesting sidepods

[eREr]

I didn't expect that much changes on the car, that's promosing. Hope the laptime gains will be clearly visible and the team will be much closer to top3 (even without Alo). Harman's minutes were the most valueable of the whole session. Let's see that spec which will hit the track within a week.

[eREr]

It seems it has not been posted yet, this is a very high res pic of the new car from Silverstone: https://i.redd.it/2aiw7krhx5ia1.png

[Goron3]

Good news that they have ballast to play with. Alpine is the only team to confirm that.

[Ali623]

[Alburaq]

I think the air-to-water intercooler has changed

 

[rootten]

I think the air-to-water intercooler has changed

 

 

also this:

 

[rootten]

 

With this fat nose and fat engine cover the car looks quite bulky to my layman eyes

 

I hope the car won't be too draggy on the straights...

[kumo7]

20 minutes out of 70 were dedicated to women racers.

4 minutes were the actual drivers.

I don't understand who do they think their audience is?

Male?

[kumo7]

With this fat nose and fat engine cover the car looks quite bulky to my layman eyes

I hope the car won't be too draggy on the straights...

Yeah, why do they go for this flat nose?

[Alburaq]

also this:

 

 

 

 

That hump is there for two reasons IMO:
1-To let hot air pass from the sidepod to the cannon tubes more directly, because the water slide forms a big separation between sidepod and cannon exit, especially around the exhausts. So the hot air will probably follow 'route 2' more :

 

 

 

 

2- probably to accelerate air in that area and attract more air into the water slide. That kind of shapes is often used and can be very good for overall DF.
*look at the RB18 after Spa

The car is slimmer not fatter. And according to Harman, it has a better lift to drag ratio

---> more DF, less drag

 

See the top view angles https://pbs.twimg.co...=jpg&name=large

Edited by Alburaq, 17 February 2023 - 13:27.

[kumo7]

I think the humps are there for this year as well. The launch photo perhaps used wider lens.

[JL14]

I really dig the look of that flat wide nose!

 

Have to say Alpine is a bit my favourite team, even though I don't really care about either driver. Do hope - for himself - that Gasly will show his worth though.

 

[Alburaq]

[Alburaq]

[Amz964]

People on YouTube and online "It looks the same as last year's car" 🙄

They have done some quite significant changes and just hope they can break away from the midfield

Edited by Amz964, 17 February 2023 - 17:17.

[pryanjack]

Gary Andersen is optimistic so we are DOOMED

[Amz964]

Gary Andersen is optimistic so we are DOOMED

Damn there is always next year 😭

[Alburaq]

IMO 2022 Alpine season can be split in 2 distinct parts, performance-wise, the pre-Silvertone A522A part and the post-Silverstone A522B part.

 

The first part was a slow and long start where the car was:
- inconsistent in qualifying, it was competitive in some tracks and behind in others (but like all Alpine rivals actually)
- it ate up its tires too fast in many races.  
- the car itself had a simpler/conventional/outdated aero design*
- the qualy average gap to pole position was over 1.40%

 

In the second part the situation changed a lot. 
- the car became much more consistent in the pecking order, in qualy and race. It was the 4th fastest in most tracks in the 2nd part

- the tire deg issue was gone. 

- The bodywork+underbody has been updated a lot in Silverstone especially and matched the level of aggressiveness of the other teams

- the qualy average gap to p1 was 1.20% (or a bit less if you take the ideal Q laps of the teams in Abu Dhabi)

 

That's why I personally tend to distinguish these 2 parts and cars. 

 

I hope in 2023 the team will hit the track running and wont have that slow and long start. If the car is sound and clear for its drivers and engineers, and with an agressive development like 2022 (apparently Alpine plans an even more agressive one), and with the solving of the reliability problems, then the final targets for 2023 will be met IMO : )
 

Edited by Alburaq, 18 February 2023 - 09:20.

[Alburaq]

*I find the aero development of Alpine in 2022 very intriguing actually.

 

I did many predictions on that subject in 2022 and all of them were 1000% right, not only because I'm the Cosmic Oracle, but also because Alpine's development was simply very predictable.

 

(And it seems my 2023 predictions are right too - but we must wait for more pics to see whether Alpine altered the cockpit position of the car)

 

But why was it predictable? 

 

Because the bodywork design was too simple compared to most cars of the grid, and was also too different/against the flow in many areas, at the first GP.

 

When, for example, 9 of the 10 cars opt for banana-shaped sidepods, while the 10th car shows up with simpler shoe-box-shaped sidepods, you can correctly predict that car will end up opting for banana-shaped sidpods like the others. 

 

This is what happened in many areas in 2022 with Alpine.

 

- they started with the most classic sidepod intake shape & position, while all others did something special there
- they had one of the most basic boat tail shape in the diffuser, (boxy and wide)  while most teams sculpted it to slim it down around gearbox to make the diffuser wider
- they were one of the 2 only two teams with classic rear brake scopes, while most others used an inlet placed between the tire and its deflector (or used both types of intakes)

 

- they were the only team with low hot air exits/a wide bodywork around gearbox, while most teams raised the cannon exits and shrinkwrapped the bodywork there
etc. 

But Alpine ended up ditching its own unique or simplistic solutions end copying the other teams.

So the majority of the aggressive updates Alpine did in 2022 where copies of what other teams did.

 

https://i.imgur.com/aPAwkQS.jpg

 

https://i.imgur.com/3QcMDwh.jpg

 

https://i.imgur.com/I6b2RGj.jpg

 

https://i.imgur.com/GtqOdEq.gif

---> the aero department seems to lack ideas and initiative (even compared to smaller teams). And it's own-made ideas are often not as good as the best teams ideas.

So it seems this department is too dependent of the other teams. It starts with a basic design, and have to wait for other teams to see what's best, to show them the way.  

But the good thing, Alpine got some important things right on its own, from the get go, like the wide and ramp-shaped sidepods that most cars now have, + some small solutions.

The other positive, is the fact the team was very reactive and fast in this development. in the near past, Enstone would have spent a season or two before copying the best solutions. 

Edited by Alburaq, 18 February 2023 - 10:04.

[JL14]

...

 

 

Matt Harman about last year:

“I think we were aggressive, we just went for a particular characteristic and we’ve lifted the bar on that particular characteristic, now we know more,” he said.

“We shouldn’t forget that characteristic allowed us to avoid some of the issues that some of the other teams had with bouncing and porpoising but now I think we understand more about that ourselves, we’ve got tools that are correlated and allow us to understand that phenomena, we’re allowed to push a little bit harder into it without any fear – so, yeah, we’ve been more aggressive.”

 

 

And about this year:

 

 

“We’re very confident that we’ve achieved the targets we’ve set ourselves.

I prefer to be a little bit coy in these situations because you never really know what everyone else has done. We all know that, we’ve been doing this long enough.

We’re happy with our own targets, we’ve set ourselves some aggressive targets and we’ve met them.

I’m confident that others might have done a better job than us but I think we’ve done the best job we could have done with the tools we had and that’s why, as a team, we’re building for the future.

That’s why we’ve got our 100-race plan and a mountain to climb so we cabn get to the point where we’ve got the tools that are a match for our competitors, so we can actually start raising our targets and hitting them.”

 

"We have an upgrade for the first race, that will be very visual and you’ll see that.

I'm looking forward to that for ourselves, that’s a great step for Alpine in F1 as a team. To be able to take an upgrade to the first race is not something we’ve been able to do previously. It just shows the growth of our team, our ability to do that.”

 

How Alpine's plan to outdevelop F1's elite starts from race one - The Race (the-race.com)

Edited by JL14, 18 February 2023 - 11:06.

[Alburaq]

Interesting. Thanks 

[RainyAfterlifeDaylight]

If I remember correctly, the most recent car that had rear Push-Rod suspension was Ferrari 150 Italia (2011) and Aldo Costa was technical director. Ferrari that year struggled massively to get heat into the tires specially rear tires hence they changed to rear Pull-Rod suspension to fix the issue in 2012.

I have huge respect for technical team at Alpine so let's see if they reap any benefit from rear Push-Rod suspension.

[Alburaq]

Was their tire problem related to the pushrod? 
 

Matt Harman about last year:

 

And about this year:

 

How Alpine's plan to outdevelop F1's elite starts from race one - The Race (the-race.com)

 

My money is on the water slides. I bet Alpine will dig em much more, like AM*. And that's why they didnt paint the top of the engine cover, because it will change soon anyway. And they wanted to start with a safe aerodynamic shape first : )

*who stole my design 

 

Edited by Alburaq, 18 February 2023 - 16:01.

[rootten]

Matt Harman about last year:

 

And about this year:

 

How Alpine's plan to outdevelop F1's elite starts from race one - The Race (the-race.com)

 

Love it!

 

I'm really excited for the season to get going!

[Alburaq]

I think this car will be better than its predecessor in every area.
But will it improve more than the other cars (like some team members think?)

I hope so.

[rootten]

*I find the aero development of Alpine in 2022 very intriguing actually.

 

I did many predictions on that subject in 2022 and all of them were 1000% right, not only because I'm the Cosmic Oracle, but also because Alpine's development was simply very predictable.

 

(And it seems my 2023 predictions are right too - but we must wait for more pics to see whether Alpine altered the cockpit position of the car)

 

But why was it predictable? 

 

Because the bodywork design was too simple compared to most cars of the grid, and was also too different/against the flow in many areas, at the first GP.

 

When, for example, 9 of the 10 cars opt for banana-shaped sidepods, while the 10th car shows up with simpler shoe-box-shaped sidepods, you can correctly predict that car will end up opting for banana-shaped sidpods like the others. 

 

This is what happened in many areas in 2022 with Alpine.

 

- they started with the most classic sidepod intake shape & position, while all others did something special there
- they had one of the most basic boat tail shape in the diffuser, (boxy and wide)  while most teams sculpted it to slim it down around gearbox to make the diffuser wider
- they were one of the 2 only two teams with classic rear brake scopes, while most others used an inlet placed between the tire and its deflector (or used both types of intakes)

 

- they were the only team with low hot air exits/a wide bodywork around gearbox, while most teams raised the cannon exits and shrinkwrapped the bodywork there
etc. 

But Alpine ended up ditching its own unique or simplistic solutions end copying the other teams.

So the majority of the aggressive updates Alpine did in 2022 where copies of what other teams did.

 

https://i.imgur.com/aPAwkQS.jpg

 

https://i.imgur.com/3QcMDwh.jpg

 

https://i.imgur.com/I6b2RGj.jpg

 

https://i.imgur.com/GtqOdEq.gif

---> the aero department seems to lack ideas and initiative (even compared to smaller teams). And it's own-made ideas are often not as good as the best teams ideas.

So it seems this department is too dependent of the other teams. It starts with a basic design, and have to wait for other teams to see what's best, to show them the way.  

But the good thing, Alpine got some important things right on its own, from the get go, like the wide and ramp-shaped sidepods that most cars now have, + some small solutions.

The other positive, is the fact the team was very reactive and fast in this development. in the near past, Enstone would have spent a season or two before copying the best solutions. 

 

oh man you just went wild

 

I think you are exaggerating and by a lot

 

of course they were copying but copying is in the DNA of F1, but a lot of their solutions last year that they came up with was on their own, I mean from the beginning of the season their had their concept that has been proven to be spot on,

also a lot of updates were introduced in parallel, for example in parallel with RBR, which shows they can think on their own

 

and what smaller teams are you talking about? Haas? a team that is Ferrari playground? they would be nothing if not for Ferrari! I can only think of copying a small deflector on splitter from AM, but that was copied even by Ferrari...

 

what did they copy from Williams, Alpha Tauri or Sauber? please tell me

 

also why they did not copy anything from Mercedes?

 

as for the tyre cooling, on the front they had an inlet that was situated between the tyre and the deflector, so obviously the idea was known to them, so the fact that they did not have it at the back was a conscious decision, and not that they did not thought about it 

Edited by rootten, 18 February 2023 - 19:56.

[Alburaq]

I never said copying is bad. I'm happy when Enstone copies the interesting solutions of other teams, and at that speed ; )

 

And did you read the last part where I also said Alpine got some concepts right from the beginning?

 

I dont think Alpine copied Haas or Alfa in particular. Alpine just ended up using some solutions that were common in the grid and present at Haas, Alfa etc.

A lot of updates were introduced in parallel with RB? which updates? AFAIK Alpine copied those many things from RB several GPs afterwards, like that unique beam wing, and many typical RB features on the floor edges.So the source was clearly RB, which is not a shame.

+ RB probably cheated with the cap, so using their findings in R&D, whether they like it or not, is fair.   
 

It's possible Alpine opted to start with a simple bodywork, but then the question is why? and why it took them so long to introduce that more up to date package if they already had those technical solutions in mind from the beginning?

Edited by Alburaq, 18 February 2023 - 20:58.

[SRK]

If I remember correctly, the most recent car that had rear Push-Rod suspension was Ferrari 150 Italia (2011) and Aldo Costa was technical director. Ferrari that year struggled massively to get heat into the tires specially rear tires hence they changed to rear Pull-Rod suspension to fix the issue in 2012.

I have huge respect for technical team at Alpine so let's see if they reap any benefit from rear Push-Rod suspension.

 

40% of last year's cars had push-rod at the back, including the one that won 17 GPs. Relax. 

[kumo7]

People on YouTube and online "It looks the same as last year's car"

They have done some quite significant changes and just hope they can break away from the midfield

 

Good for Alpine that the car has good numbers.

 

Looking attthese photos, it may appear that the car took concept from ASTON's 22 car. higher front wings, flat nose and so on. Should it suits actual air? looking forward to see it.

[Alburaq]

The new nose/FW are designed to be more modular according to Harman

 

 

The old nose 

 

 

Edited by Alburaq, 19 February 2023 - 07:58.

[Ali623]

Some pretty bullish comments from Ocon on the new car:

 

Ocon, who described himself as “more of a mechanical guy” when it comes to his appreciation of the car, said this year’s design is already much more advanced than the one it has succeeded.

 

“When I come to the car, I look at it closely: I look at the details, how every part goes next to each other, how good everything looks, the details,” said Ocon, when asked by The Race whether Alpine had enjoyed a good winter based on what the team had told him.

 

“Even from my position: how the carbon seat is finished, the pedal box.

 

“Last year it looked like a toy, the car, in comparison to this year. This year it’s a proper race machine, and it’s a huge step.

 

“I think we are in much, much better shape than we were last year. Let’s see if it’s confirmed on-track.”

 

 

 

On the other cars:

 

Asked if he was surprised Mercedes had stuck broadly with its outlier concept from 2022, Ocon said: “It looks a lot more detailed than last year when most cars were launched, obviously it was the first new-reg cars.

 

“But it looks quite impressive – the Aston Martin, the Merc, all these kind of cars, they look very fast. We will see, once we start running, where everyone sits.”

 

 

 

On the shakedown:

 

“Last year has been great,” he said. “Obviously we’ve performed consistently and we got in points very often.

 

“I think what we need to get better for 2023 is to start with a car that’s performing a little higher than it did last year. Because we struggled early on, we were not in the best shape in the winter test and the first couple of races.

 

“And from what I’ve seen during this shakedown is that we are race-ready, basically.

 

“That’s a massive step up from last year. And obviously as Otmar said, outdeveloping the competitors is going to be the aim to close that gap from fourth to third.

 

“So it can sound the same, finishing fourth, but first of all we can’t underestimate anyone, all the other teams, and the second thing is yes, it was a huge gap from third to fourth, so if we finish fourth but close to third it’s going to be a super-successful season.”

 

 

Expanding on his feeling from shakedown, he added: “You can already start to feel, if the car has an issue, if the car has a fundamental issue in the balance or anything, and that was not the case.

 

“The car was spot on from when we put it on, and that’s very reassuring that first of all, the sim works the same way as the car does on-track, and the model does work, it correlates perfectly.

 

“[It’s been] very good until now.”

 

“We’re in much better shape,” agreed Harmon when told of Ocon’s comments.

 

“I pushed the team to a limit last season, we did it for a good reason but we didn’t need to do it for this year.

 

“So yeah, we’re in much better shape, we went out the garage at 9am on our filming day, we faultlessly did our 100km, shared it between the two drivers and we actually managed to focus on them and their feedback, rather than trying to maintain the car around the circuit.”

 

 

 

https://the-race.com...ook-like-a-toy/