Jump to content


Photo
- - - - -

Ford Returns to F1 with Red Bull for 2026 [updated]


  • Please log in to reply
215 replies to this topic

#1 SparkPlug86

SparkPlug86
  • Member

  • 1,946 posts
  • Joined: March 18

Posted 27 January 2023 - 13:37

So, it's been doing the rounds for a little while. Rumour mill is getting traction that Ford may oft for a Formula 1 return. Possibly linking up with Red Bull for 2026... no denials and no confirmations from either party, so there is genuine interest on Ford's part - support by recent Autosport article.
 

“Formula 1 is certainly strong and growing, both in the United States and globally.
“What they have done well is create great racing and great competition. It’s still the pinnacle, but they’ve been able to reach new audiences with things like Drive to Survive.
“As a company we go racing for innovation, tech transfer, the learning opportunity, but also for marketing reasons as well. It’s shifted for sure, and it definitely requires consideration.”
Asked specifically about the rumours regarding a potential 2026 entry, Rushbrook said: “We don’t comment on speculation, but it’s the same with all these series that are out there.
“It’s our responsibility to study them and understand them, and then make decisions on whether it makes sense or doesn’t make sense.”

 
https://www.autospor...ation/10425222/
 
So... peoples opinions and thoughts on a return by Ford?
 
Considering the challenges by Andretti, it's not a sure thing, but it seems Ford don't want to build a team from scratch but would rather a collaboration. Makes some sense considering the failed Jaguar project. Ford has a strong motorsport history, equally has a strong habit of the bean counters being too involved.

MOD EDIT: It has been officially confirmed here.

 


Edited by SparkPlug86, 07 February 2023 - 14:00.


Advertisement

#2 Risil

Risil
  • Administrator

  • 61,509 posts
  • Joined: February 07

Posted 27 January 2023 - 13:44

Sounds a bit late for Ford to be umming and ah-ing about entering in 2026 if they want to be an engine supplier.

 

They have money though so a partnership with Red Bull would be possible, although surely Honda re-entering with RB would be more logical.



#3 Tiakumosan

Tiakumosan
  • Member

  • 1,290 posts
  • Joined: February 10

Posted 27 January 2023 - 13:44

Guess Ford would just rebadge the RBPT PU, no?

Kinda funny since RB bought Jaguar F1.

#4 Lennat

Lennat
  • Member

  • 2,041 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 27 January 2023 - 13:45

I assume it would be mostly badging thing, but why not?

 

Anyhow, I like this idea much more than a "manufacturer" using a customer engine like the planned Andretti/GM thing powered by presumably Honda (but maybe Renault)?



#5 Ben1445

Ben1445
  • Member

  • 12,037 posts
  • Joined: December 13

Posted 27 January 2023 - 14:01

I feel like Rushbrook has been all talk, no action for a good few years now when it comes to potential race programs.

#6 aportinga

aportinga
  • Member

  • 10,580 posts
  • Joined: November 01

Posted 27 January 2023 - 14:09

I wonder how much of the Ford and Cadillac decisions are influenced by the fact that there are 3 F1 races in the US now? Or is it the international exposure? Or both?



#7 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,106 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 27 January 2023 - 17:19

I feel like Rushbrook has been all talk, no action for a good few years now when it comes to potential race programs.

He’s consistently said the same thing and never alluded or implied they had substantial interest in F1.  While not ruling it out there’s nothing in his statements that indicate they are considering an F1 program.  That’s a product of speculation from the F1 press and fans.  



#8 FNG

FNG
  • Member

  • 5,746 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 27 January 2023 - 17:27

What does it matter? According to the teams no one is allowed in I thought.



#9 AustinF1

AustinF1
  • Member

  • 20,502 posts
  • Joined: November 10

Posted 27 January 2023 - 18:05

Guess Ford would just rebadge the RBPT PU, no?

Kinda funny since RB bought Jaguar F1.

Yep. Can't wait to see the Andretti opponents try to rationalize calling Cadillac's interest in F1 "merely a branding exercise" while welcoming Ford's "branding exercise" with open arms - since it won't dilute their prize money.


#10 FNG

FNG
  • Member

  • 5,746 posts
  • Joined: June 01

Posted 27 January 2023 - 18:13

Audi says Hi.

They bought an existing team.



#11 Ivanhoe

Ivanhoe
  • RC Forum Host

  • 17,659 posts
  • Joined: November 15

Posted 27 January 2023 - 18:32

What does it matter? According to the teams no one is allowed in I thought.

Don’t think this is about entering as a new team.



#12 ArnageWRC

ArnageWRC
  • Member

  • 2,129 posts
  • Joined: April 10

Posted 27 January 2023 - 18:39

He’s consistently said the same thing and never alluded or implied they had substantial interest in F1.  While not ruling it out there’s nothing in his statements that indicate they are considering an F1 program.  That’s a product of speculation from the F1 press and fans.  

 

They (Ford/ Rushbrook) can't even make up their mind whether they are fully in the WRC or not; and end up in a 'half-way house' commitment - providing some technical backing; leaving M-Sport on a shoestring budget. 



#13 DeKnyff

DeKnyff
  • Member

  • 5,288 posts
  • Joined: November 13

Posted 27 January 2023 - 18:53

Guess Ford would just rebadge the RBPT PU, no?

 

They badged an f1 engine from 1967 to 1981 and it wasn't too bad for them.



#14 Ben1445

Ben1445
  • Member

  • 12,037 posts
  • Joined: December 13

Posted 27 January 2023 - 18:58

They (Ford/ Rushbrook) can't even make up their mind whether they are fully in the WRC or not; and end up in a 'half-way house' commitment - providing some technical backing; leaving M-Sport on a shoestring budget.

They also spent years attending rules meetings for DPi 2.0/LMDh and shaping how it looks only to end up not pulling the trigger to enter. I’m fairly sure they were supposed to have been ‘considering’ FE at one point as well.

Basically, even if there’s anything substantive behind these quotes, I wouldn’t bet on them actually doing it. Personally.

#15 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,106 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 27 January 2023 - 22:37

They bought an existing team.

Not yet.   :smoking:   Finn Rausing will still hold 25% once the deal kicks in. While it’s not been completed I don’t see it going sideways.

 

They (Ford/ Rushbrook) can't even make up their mind whether they are fully in the WRC or not; and end up in a 'half-way house' commitment - providing some technical backing; leaving M-Sport on a shoestring budget. 

That’s how Ford does the racing programs these days including Cup and NHRA.  Been that way for quite a while.



#16 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 44,648 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 27 January 2023 - 22:51

Hasn't the deadline for 2026 registration already passed?

#17 Lennat

Lennat
  • Member

  • 2,041 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 28 January 2023 - 02:19

They (Ford/ Rushbrook) can't even make up their mind whether they are fully in the WRC or not; and end up in a 'half-way house' commitment - providing some technical backing; leaving M-Sport on a shoestring budget.


I still find it mind blowing how to they didn't put in an the money to keep Ogier at M-Sport. He could have won 5 titles for them, and we would remember it as one of the all time great WRC efforts.

#18 FirstnameLastname

FirstnameLastname
  • Member

  • 7,745 posts
  • Joined: April 18

Posted 30 January 2023 - 09:35

More chat about this now

Not sure why they want to kick Honda back out of bed after they’ve shown what they are capable of

Maybe because they are also capable of dumping the whole thing on a whim. Still, will leave Honda as a good proposition for another team somewhere

#19 Nemo1965

Nemo1965
  • Member

  • 7,844 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 30 January 2023 - 09:43

They badged an f1 engine from 1967 to 1981 and it wasn't too bad for them.

 

That is, as you well know, dear DeKnyff, a firm tongue in cheek historical rewrite. But I have to say this weekend (when the rumours about Red Bull and Ford emerged) I had a daring fantasy. Ford badges the Red Bull-unit... it is succesfull. New engine-rules emerge. The engine stays successfull. Ford offers the very competitive engine for a very competitive price. McLaren, Williams (or what is then called), Andretti and naturally Alpha Tauri start using the engine. A 'new' Cosworth-engine is born. The garagistas have reborn. The might of manufacturers is broken. If you turn up with a Ford-engined mongrel and you qualify, you can race.

 

If only...



Advertisement

#20 kumo7

kumo7
  • Member

  • 7,170 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:09

Interesting.

Yet, I feel this will be yet another Audi thread.
Ford nearly joins the grid.

#21 FirstnameLastname

FirstnameLastname
  • Member

  • 7,745 posts
  • Joined: April 18

Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:21

Announcement on 3rd Feb apparently…

#22 kumo7

kumo7
  • Member

  • 7,170 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:39

Announcement on 3rd Feb apparently…

 

This is interesting. So RBT, with its Honda Patent, to go to Ford, or is it starting up a completely new PU project with Ford?

If the former, Honda is truly xxx.



#23 F1matt

F1matt
  • Member

  • 3,230 posts
  • Joined: June 11

Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:46

Ford look like a company in terminal decline, market share has decreased year on year, long term sales are decreasing year on year, they are losing out in big markets such as China to rivals, they are also carrying $160m billion dollars worth of debt. Looking at their figures the pick up and truck market keeps them going but I can't see how these buyers would be swayed by an F1 entry? Why would Red Bull want to get involved? 



#24 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 4,450 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:50

This is interesting. So RBT, with its Honda Patent, to go to Ford, or is it starting up a completely new PU project with Ford?

If the former, Honda is truly xxx.

RBPT have no Honda IP. They are creating their own V6T + MGU-K for 2026 and are considered a new manufacturer.

 

Honda are actually in a good place to provide a PU for 2026 if they can find a willing team.



#25 Goron3

Goron3
  • Member

  • 4,450 posts
  • Joined: April 11

Posted 30 January 2023 - 10:52

More chat about this now

Not sure why they want to kick Honda back out of bed after they’ve shown what they are capable of

Maybe because they are also capable of dumping the whole thing on a whim. Still, will leave Honda as a good proposition for another team somewhere

They are too far along with RBPT to stick with Honda for 2026. It's worth keeping in mind that we only have rumours about Honda's interest in 2026, nothing else.

 

Ford makes sense as a 'badge'. Ultimately this will be a PU developed in Milton Keynes, 100% by RBPT.



#26 absinthedude

absinthedude
  • Member

  • 5,709 posts
  • Joined: June 18

Posted 30 January 2023 - 12:19

Ford would likely rebadge an existing unit, presumably the RBPT.

 

But I suppose Christian would think that's OK. If it happens, I hope he is never allowed to forget that it's a branding exercise while Cadillac wanted proper involvement. 



#27 kumo7

kumo7
  • Member

  • 7,170 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 30 January 2023 - 13:43

RBPT have no Honda IP. They are creating their own V6T + MGU-K for 2026 and are considered a new manufacturer.

Honda are actually in a good place to provide a PU for 2026 if they can find a willing team.


It is too naïef to think that RBT will forget what they now know.

#28 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 44,648 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 30 January 2023 - 14:16

It is too naïef to think that RBT will forget what they now know.


What do they know about the construction of the Honda PU?

#29 Lennat

Lennat
  • Member

  • 2,041 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 30 January 2023 - 14:23

Ford would likely rebadge an existing unit, presumably the RBPT.

 

But I suppose Christian would think that's OK. If it happens, I hope he is never allowed to forget that it's a branding exercise while Cadillac wanted proper involvement. 

 

"Proper" involvement but no engine doesn't seem that proper to me.



#30 kumo7

kumo7
  • Member

  • 7,170 posts
  • Joined: May 15

Posted 30 January 2023 - 15:05

What do they know about the construction of the Honda PU?


RBT built the units, initially agreed to ‘borrow’ the IP, so it was reported. I take it as RBT is capable of reading the IP, operating it on the bench and building the PU. That is quite a lot.
RBT is not Honda, but I cannot imagine that the Bunch who worked for Ilmore-Merc is a laymen.

#31 Sterzo

Sterzo
  • Member

  • 4,979 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 30 January 2023 - 15:28

That is, as you well know, dear DeKnyff, a firm tongue in cheek historical rewrite. But I have to say this weekend (when the rumours about Red Bull and Ford emerged) I had a daring fantasy. Ford badges the Red Bull-unit... it is succesfull. New engine-rules emerge. The engine stays successfull. Ford offers the very competitive engine for a very competitive price. McLaren, Williams (or what is then called), Andretti and naturally Alpha Tauri start using the engine. A 'new' Cosworth-engine is born. The garagistas have reborn. The might of manufacturers is broken. If you turn up with a Ford-engined mongrel and you qualify, you can race.

 

If only...

Yet in the seventies we complained F1 had been reduced to "Formula Ford", that anyone with a pop-rivet gun could knock up a Grand Prix car, and we dreamed of the return of real manufacturers like Mercedes.



#32 SparkPlug86

SparkPlug86
  • Member

  • 1,946 posts
  • Joined: March 18

Posted 30 January 2023 - 16:39

Announcement on 3rd Feb apparently…

 

Where did you hear that?



#33 Nemo1965

Nemo1965
  • Member

  • 7,844 posts
  • Joined: October 12

Posted 30 January 2023 - 16:45

Yet in the seventies we complained F1 had been reduced to "Formula Ford", that anyone with a pop-rivet gun could knock up a Grand Prix car, and we dreamed of the return of real manufacturers like Mercedes.


I never complained in the 70’s. And never dreamed about the absence of any manufacturers. I loved it that a big team like Ferrari could win one year, the next year a Ford-engined team, then a new engine like the TAG, then the BMW, then Honda, then…

#34 Clatter

Clatter
  • Member

  • 44,648 posts
  • Joined: February 00

Posted 30 January 2023 - 17:24

Yet in the seventies we complained F1 had been reduced to "Formula Ford", that anyone with a pop-rivet gun could knock up a Grand Prix car, and we dreamed of the return of real manufacturers like Mercedes.

 


Did we? I honestly don't remember that, but I was more focussed on teams and racing, couldn't give a stuff what engine was in the back.

#35 absinthedude

absinthedude
  • Member

  • 5,709 posts
  • Joined: June 18

Posted 30 January 2023 - 17:45

Yet in the seventies we complained F1 had been reduced to "Formula Ford", that anyone with a pop-rivet gun could knock up a Grand Prix car, and we dreamed of the return of real manufacturers like Mercedes.

 

Did we? I don't recall that, it was more the manufacturersand grandees such as Ferrari, Alfa, Renault, Matra, against the garagistes. Two different ways of achieving the same end. I do recall some journalists referring to smaller teams as building "Cosworth powered kit cars" with a bit of disdain but I don't recall great enthusiasm for "the manufacturers" to come back. If anything, many older fans in the 70s would remember the dominance of Mercedes in 1954/55 and pretty much knew what would happen if tney came back.....just took them 30 years longer than it might....

 

 

Where did you hear that?

 

Feb 3 is my birthday so maybe there'll be something to entertain me.



#36 Anja

Anja
  • Member

  • 10,284 posts
  • Joined: November 09

Posted 30 January 2023 - 17:47

Where did you hear that?

 

That's when Red Bull is having a season launch event in New York of all places so I think some people are just putting two and two together.



#37 Ali623

Ali623
  • Member

  • 3,530 posts
  • Joined: March 18

Posted 30 January 2023 - 18:12

https://twitter.com/...086090156867585

 

Everything indicates that Red Bull and Ford will reveal their cooperation from 2026 on Friday.
 
Still a partner for the top team after the Porsche deal fell through. Exact details not yet known. Red Bull Powertrains builds the combustion engine itself anyway.


#38 Collombin

Collombin
  • Member

  • 8,598 posts
  • Joined: March 05

Posted 30 January 2023 - 18:42

Did we? I don't recall that


Aren't you in your 40s?

#39 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,106 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 30 January 2023 - 19:32

Nothing in the automotive industry press just yet but there was nothing leaked prior to the Andretti/GM deal.  The irony is those that discount GM as a branding deal are going to support this even though it’s functionally the same type of commitment being technology exchange and consumer facing marketing.  Both Ford and GM have put billions into EV, hybrid and battery technology over the last several years.  More so than any of the other auto manufacturers in F1 at the moment.  Ford alone will have spent US$50 billion by next year on electric tech with GM at about US$35 billion to date.  Mercedes is expect to have invested US$40 billion by the end of the decade.  Both Mercedes and Honda have lagged in the execution but have big plans announced.  They’ll get there.  While Nissan is investing another US$17 bil in electric tech they’re investing only US$750 mil for a Renault EV model and manufacturing.  Ferrari is at almost US$ 5 bil and McLaren at US$2.1 bil with no product yet from either.  

 

The transfer of road car technology to race cars in the form of electrics and storage will be the first time in a while that any racing series has taken road car tech and adapted it to race cars.  It’s usually been the other way. I expect that when the tech centers are fully developed and integrated into the road car’s design methods things learned racing can be parlayed into road cars.



Advertisement

#40 skinnyman

skinnyman
  • Member

  • 672 posts
  • Joined: July 09

Posted 30 January 2023 - 21:19

Has Ford made something by itself in the last 50 years ?
Everything branded Ford comes from some external company or a subsidiary.

#41 Dolph

Dolph
  • Member

  • 12,129 posts
  • Joined: March 01

Posted 30 January 2023 - 21:28

Has Ford made something by itself in the last 50 years ?
Everything branded Ford comes from some external company or a subsidiary.

 

Are you fully aware of what the word "subsidiary" means?



#42 JL14

JL14
  • Member

  • 591 posts
  • Joined: October 22

Posted 30 January 2023 - 21:48

Nothing in the automotive industry press just yet but there was nothing leaked prior to the Andretti/GM deal.  The irony is those that discount GM as a branding deal are going to support this even though it’s functionally the same type of commitment being technology exchange and consumer facing marketing.  Both Ford and GM have put billions into EV, hybrid and battery technology over the last several years.  More so than any of the other auto manufacturers in F1 at the moment.  Ford alone will have spent US$50 billion by next year on electric tech with GM at about US$35 billion to date.  Mercedes is expect to have invested US$40 billion by the end of the decade.  Both Mercedes and Honda have lagged in the execution but have big plans announced.  They’ll get there.  While Nissan is investing another US$17 bil in electric tech they’re investing only US$750 mil for a Renault EV model and manufacturing.  Ferrari is at almost US$ 5 bil and McLaren at US$2.1 bil with no product yet from either.  

 

The transfer of road car technology to race cars in the form of electrics and storage will be the first time in a while that any racing series has taken road car tech and adapted it to race cars.  It’s usually been the other way. I expect that when the tech centers are fully developed and integrated into the road car’s design methods things learned racing can be parlayed into road cars.

 

So Ford coming 'home' again after the Jaguar days in Milton Keynes



#43 azza200

azza200
  • Member

  • 963 posts
  • Joined: October 15

Posted 30 January 2023 - 22:16

Audi says Hi.

 

a4QWVR6_460s.jpg

 

IMO i think Audi should stick to sportscars and endurance racing they are wasting their time going into F1 



#44 FirstnameLastname

FirstnameLastname
  • Member

  • 7,745 posts
  • Joined: April 18

Posted 30 January 2023 - 23:23

Redbull is going to end up being the c***tease of f1 with all these manufacturers it’s courting and then jumping into bed with someone else

A lot of jilted lovers for them. I fondly remember the days when nobody wanted to give them engines. Good times.

#45 SparkPlug86

SparkPlug86
  • Member

  • 1,946 posts
  • Joined: March 18

Posted 30 January 2023 - 23:34

I really hope Ford do come in, with a technical partnership to help RBR with PU development. We all know it's Honda's original IP, but more fool them for leaving and giving up the golden hen! But if Ford can just fire some money, marketing support and sound PU advice... they'll be laughing having that branded as "Powered By Ford" with WCC fairly easy pickings if 2022 is anything to base it on. I genuinely wish them good luck - but they need to stay out of the "racing" team side of it... everytime someone from the board gets involved, it ends in tears. 



#46 Wuzak

Wuzak
  • Member

  • 8,416 posts
  • Joined: September 00

Posted 31 January 2023 - 01:03

Nothing in the automotive industry press just yet but there was nothing leaked prior to the Andretti/GM deal.  The irony is those that discount GM as a branding deal are going to support this even though it’s functionally the same type of commitment being technology exchange and consumer facing marketing.  

 

Not exactly.

 

While GM may have technology exchange, it will be on the chassis side with Andretti, rather on the engine side, which will be, probably, the Renault.

 

Ford would be involved in the power unit. Whether it is just funding or technology sharing.

 

RRBT probably needs someone like Ford to help foot the bill for the PU.



#47 loki

loki
  • Member

  • 12,106 posts
  • Joined: May 02

Posted 31 January 2023 - 02:43

Not exactly.

 

While GM may have technology exchange, it will be on the chassis side with Andretti, rather on the engine side, which will be, probably, the Renault.

 

Ford would be involved in the power unit. Whether it is just funding or technology sharing.

 

RRBT probably needs someone like Ford to help foot the bill for the PU.

GM has stated in subsequent years engine technology will be incorporated in the project.  Red Bull doesn’t have the depth of technology yet for the electric portion of the engine.  The current system employed in F1 is primitive compared to what’s currently available in the market.  Not so much that they can’t develop the tech but the rules package limited development.  There are far more electric powertrain and storage engineers at either GM or Ford than there are in the entire F1 ecosystem.  Stored and deployed electrical energy doesn’t know if it’s in an F1 car or an F150 Lightning.  It’s the packaging that makes it F1 specific not the core technology.



#48 absinthedude

absinthedude
  • Member

  • 5,709 posts
  • Joined: June 18

Posted 31 January 2023 - 09:25

Aren't you in your 40s?

 

For a few more days, yes.

 

But I was a fast developing child, been watching F1 since 1978 and in the 80s I collected a lot of magazines, videos and even film reels of previous decades. I don't recall either in person or in later reading/viewing that longing for the manufacturers to make their return was common. It wasn't unheard of, especially those who agreed with Enzo Ferrari's disdain for the "garagistes"....but it wasn't the prevailing view. 

 

Regarding Ford, I'd be happy for them to come in even if it was a branding exercise. I just hope Christian is never allowed to live it down after what he's said about Andretti/Cadillac. 



#49 Sterzo

Sterzo
  • Member

  • 4,979 posts
  • Joined: September 11

Posted 31 January 2023 - 11:19

 

But I was a fast developing child...

I'll forgive you for not being privy to my mid-seventies pub conversations.



#50 JHSingo

JHSingo
  • Member

  • 8,939 posts
  • Joined: June 13

Posted 31 January 2023 - 11:24

Can't wait for the double standards, if this is merely a badging exercise - when only a couple of weeks ago, Andretti/Cadillac was being dismissed by the F1 paddock as being exactly that.  :lol: