215 replies to this topic

[JL14]

What exactly is dated in F1 ERS design?

 

The 2026 MGUK has a minimum weight of 16kg plus 4kg for transmission to the ICE.

 

A similarly powered motor from the Tesla Model S is 45kg.

 

The battery cells themselves are, I'm sure, the same, or very similar, to those used in EVs now.

 

EV control systems have different requirements to hybrid systems, for the simple fact that they don't have to deal with an ICE.

 

BMW's M Head of Motorsport Andreas Roos stated recently that BMW is not interested in F1 since it hybrid tech is years behind. Only in '26 they will catch up to current road-relevance tech, but they can already get the same relevance now, 3 years earlier, in WEC and IMSA.

He has the same sentiment about the introduction of sustainable fuels in only '26 in F1.

[loki]

What exactly is dated in F1 ERS design?

 

The 2026 MGUK has a minimum weight of 16kg plus 4kg for transmission to the ICE.

 

A similarly powered motor from the Tesla Model S is 45kg.

 

The battery cells themselves are, I'm sure, the same, or very similar, to those used in EVs now.

 

EV control systems have different requirements to hybrid systems, for the simple fact that they don't have to deal with an ICE.

Everything is outdated.  Storage, motors, recovery mechanisms, controllers.  The control systems of a hybrid and plug in EV are similar.  They deal with moving energy into the powertrain and recovering energy under braking.  That’s a charging circuit as well as a mechanical generation device.  The Corvette E Ray is a good example of a current performance hybrid application though a different integration than the 2026 F1 rules.

[Muzzyf1]

How does this work isn't this a Honda engine to start with ? How will it be re badged a Ford or are they producing a totally new engine??

[Wuzak]

How does this work isn't this a Honda engine to start with ? How will it be re badged a Ford or are they producing a totally new engine??

 

Red Bull Powertrains is designing a new power unit unrelated to the Honda. Ford will bring funding and will help with the design, particularly the ERS.

[Goron3]

How does this work isn't this a Honda engine to start with ? How will it be re badged a Ford or are they producing a totally new engine??

RBPT, based in Milton Keynes, are designing their own V6T Hybrid for the 2026 season. Since 2021 they've been hiring staff and buying facilities to do this, and they'll be developing everything on site in Milton Keynes. Zero Honda I.P is involved. They are starting from zero, and therefore count as a new manufacturer for 2026 and get additional dyno testing and capital investments compared to Mercedes, Ferrari etc.

 

Honda have signed up for 2026 but I'd be amazed if they develop a PU in the end because the staff working on the F1 project in Sakura have been allocated towards other projects, and the satellite MK team that manufactured the ERS was sold to RBPT in 2021.

[UncleSam]

https://www.motorspo...-2026/10430340/

A fully assembled battery is not allowed be shipped from Japan to GB so they're doing it in pieces. That doesn't mean RBPT would be able to design one themselves.

Edited by UncleSam, 10 February 2023 - 15:59.

[loki]

https://www.motorspo...-2026/10430340/

A fully assembled battery is not allowed be shipped from Japan to GB so they're doing it in pieces. That doesn't mean RBPT would be able to design one themselves.

Integrating the cells into an appropriate package is common in the EV/hybrid world.  It’s done even in the DIY conversion market.  I doubt Red Bull has invested much in the hybrid engineering portion right now.  Now that the rules are out it’s likely teams will starting adding more of that expertise and/or using partners or OEMs where needed.  Of the existing teams Mercedes are the most likely to be able to pull tech from the road car side.

[skinnyman]

You know Toyota isn’t Ford, right?

You’re not well informed as to the technology behind the Mach E or even the F150 Lightning. The electric motors are higher performance, durable and lighter. The control systems offer a variety of modes that impact both drivability and energy harvest. Except for switching the mode this happens without driver intervention. The energy stores are smaller, more dense and last longer. It’s quite a bit more sophisticated than what’s currently used in F1.

The concepts and engineering behind energy recovery, deployment and storage is the same in either a road going car or a race car. It’s the packaging and application that’s different. The motors and software work the same way. The principles and physics of a four cycle engine don’t change because it’s in an F1 car. The same is true for the electric powertrain.

https://www.cnbc.com...ion-halted.html

Oh noes.

[GlenWatkins]

?

[loki]

https://www.cnbc.com...ion-halted.html

Oh noes.

Tesla had a similar fire issue when some of the cars were parked though not being charged at the time.

[Latos]

Tried to imagined Max and FordGT40 together in this video. Kinda hoping Ford uses GT40 for marketing purposes down the line. It has it's huge racing heritage, would be ideal for catering to the US audience. And I just want to see more of it .

https://youtu.be/37h9Ynn5tRA

[GlenWatkins]

And the 40 inches was the height of the car, hence GT40. Later generations are 44 inches tall.

[RedRabbit]

Ford sold off the 'GT40' trademark in the 1980s so they don't have the rights to use it anymore. The 2005 & 2017 sportcars were just called Ford GTs - which is what the very first cars of this type were called in 1964. The GT40 name dates from late 1965 once road car production started.

There used to be a company in Cape Town that produced new GT-40s afew years ago, with the relevant correct chassis numbers that followed the originals.

[Smiley]

There used to be a company in Cape Town that produced new GT-40s afew years ago, with the relevant correct chassis numbers that followed the originals.

I think they still do 

https://www.capeadva...les.com/models/

[geoffd]

There is another firm too https://edition.cnn....intl/index.html

[loki]

Race Car Replicas in Michigan makes a GT40 kit as well as other classics from that era and earlier.  They made the cars for Ford vs. Ferrari.  

 

http://race-car-repl...rcr-40-mki-mkii