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Formula E in India | The 2023 Hyderabad ePrix (Round 4)


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Poll: What are you looking forward to in Hyderabad? (15 member(s) have cast votes)

What are you looking forward to in Hyderabad?

  1. Wehrlein vs Dennis (1 votes [6.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

  2. Chasing teams closing the gap (1 votes [6.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

  3. The new street circuit in Hyderabad (6 votes [40.00%])

    Percentage of vote: 40.00%

  4. Close and exciting racing (no matter who wins) (4 votes [26.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 26.67%

  5. Some form of unforeseen chaos or drama (1 votes [6.67%])

    Percentage of vote: 6.67%

  6. Rice (2 votes [13.33%])

    Percentage of vote: 13.33%

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#1 Ben1445

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 18:11

 Formula E in India | The 2023 Hyderabad ePrix 
Screenshot-2023-02-07-at-17-07-13.png
Fo-Tmdf-Sak-AAf-Vy-I.jpg

Welcome to the city of Hyderabad. We start with this poster from Mahindra, the Indian team who have been a part of Formula E from the very start. This is a special race for them as in all that time it is Formula E’s first race in India, and the first motorsport event at this international level since the 2013 Indian Grand Prix (or so it keeps being said). Mahindra manufacturer cars under their own brand, as well as owning legendary Italian design house Pininfarina - and they are using both as a platform to bring electric vehicles to market.

OK. Onto the Racing.


What’s the story of the season so far?
Screenshot-2023-02-07-at-17-07-13.pngIf you’re just joining us in this new era of Formula E, then a very warm welcome to you. If you want to catch up on the season so far without spoilers I suggest watching some highlights ASAP - there's only three races down so won't take you long. I've even provided a link for you (aren't I nice?). On the other hand, if you’re happy to jump in or simply want a recap then by all means read on.
M23-0557-fine.jpg
Big story so far is that Porsche Motorsport have bounced back from a fairly mediocre Gen2 campaign and hit the ground running in Gen3. The 99X Electric powertrain has some big race pace which has looked almost unbeatable over the first three races. Two drivers have staked their claim as early favourites, Pascal Wehrlein for the factory Porsche team and Jake Dennis for Porsche customer team Andretti. Between them they have soaked up all the wins, most of the podium places and the a lions share of the headlines. They seem on good terms for now… but will that last?

Best of the rest places seem to be occupied by the Jaguar powered teams (Jaguar and Envision) mixed in with the McLaren team (double champions under their former Mercedes EQ identify). McLaren are currently outperforming their powertrain provider Nissan, with Birmingham lad Jake Hughes making a splash in qualifying for a pole during his rookie season and Rene Rast scoring a podium last time out. 

Despite topping timesheets in testing, former championship front runners DS Penske (formerly Techeetah) and Maserati (formerly Venturi) have struggled to make the DS package work well. FE championship winning drivers Jean-Eric Vergne and Stoffel Vandoorne look like they have their work cut out this year.
 

What should we look out for this weekend?
Screenshot-2023-02-07-at-17-07-13.pngI think we have the following Stories of the Race to follow:
Screenshot-2023-02-07-at-17-50-27.pngWehrlein vs Dennis - these two have the early momentum to build a title campaign around. Will this continue? Will they have to go wheel to wheel? Who comes out on top this weekend?
 
The Teammates - Porsche have Season 6 Champion Antonio Felix da Costa in their second car, meanwhile Andretti have racing veteran Andre Lotterer. No shortage of talent, but their seasons have not got off to as positive a start as their teammates. Will they be able to come back fighting or eventually be forced to adopt supporting roles?
 
Porsche Pace - On the surface Porsche look dominant in the races. Even with mid-field qualifying performances they have been able to scythe forward with ease. Can the closest chasing teams start to close that gap or have Porsche found something fundamental which rivals will struggle to replicate?
 
A New Venue - This weekend is the debut year of the Hyderabad street circuit, a partially purpose built street course completed late last year. The first of three new venues in a row, how will it compare to FE’s classic venues?

 
Where are they racing?
Screenshot-2023-02-07-at-17-07-13.pngMore on that new circuit then. Built on the edge of the Hussain Sagar lake in Hyderabad, it is a heavily revised version of original plans for a Formula Regional Indian Championship venue, slightly to the south and overlapping the hairpin section. The new version includes atwisty, purpose built section threaded through NTR Gardens. The pit and paddock structure had been constructed to the north of a multiplex cinema, and the rest of the course of joined up with public roads, most of which border the lake to the north and north east of the venue.
hyderabad-track-map.png
The circuit had been used already for the Indian Racing League (the IRL but not that IRL) and some Indian F4 for two events in November and December last year. Formula E has added an extra chicane at T1, though the exact reasons are somewhat unclear. Sam Smith of The-Race simply says it is an extra regen opportunity but doesn’t elaborate on why it is there. Is it to manage energy consumption? Is it to limit speeds at the end of what would be a 1,100m stretch given the emergency braking concerns ahead of the season (thankfully now mitigated with a fast-tracked emergency brake)? Is it something to do with turn itself? No one seems sure. We’ll see what that modification looks like this weekend, but if they can remove it in future it could surely be an iconic section of track on the FE calendar.

Event Timetable
Screenshot-2023-02-07-at-17-07-13.pngFriday 10th February 

Free Practice 1 -    11:00 UTC

Saturday 11th February 

Free Practice 2 -    02:40 UTC

Qualifying -            05:10 UTC

Race -                    09:30 UTC

 

Food and Flavours
Screenshot-2023-02-07-at-17-07-13.png(in response to thegamer23’s prompt)
Indian cuisine has an enormous variety to offer, with regional variations based on a complex web of historical influences such as religion, trade and geography. The region of Telangana features a broader Telengu cuisine as well as a more specific Hyderabadi cuisine. Hyderabadi cuisine in particular is influenced by Mughal, Turkish and Arabic elements (among others). This weekend, why not try a Hyderabadi Biryani? A rice dish originating in the kitchens of the Nizam of Hyderabad combining elements of Hyderabadi and Mughlai cuisines, it’s typically a meat dish, but food is and always has been creative and fluid so there’s plenty of vegetable versions one can try as well.
Hyderabadi-Vegetable-Biryani-Recipe-7-16
 
Cool. Hopefully that’s everyone up to speed and ready for some racing.

It’s time for the Hyderabad ePrix.


Edited by Ben1445, 08 February 2023 - 08:12.


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#2 jonpollak

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 18:50

https://youtu.be/iyxm8cjMSCo

Jp

#3 thegamer23

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 18:55

Ben the Goat of OP's!!  :up:  :up:

 

Onboard lap in Hyderabad.

 


 

 

In the FE layout there will be a chicane before the first kink.

Sell-out crowd expected, should be quite an event.


Edited by thegamer23, 07 February 2023 - 18:56.


#4 Ben1445

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 19:26

That's me whenever I read one of your posts  :p



#5 Ben1445

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 19:31

Some electric buses being brought into service in Hyderabad this week, all wrapped up in a Formula E livery to celebrate the occasion:

 

image.jpg

 

https://twitter.com/...7047297/photo/3



#6 Risil

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 19:52

Biryan-E or Bir-E-ani? This is the question that really matters.



#7 Imateria

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 20:26

Biryan-E or Bir-E-ani? This is the question that really matters.

Bir-E-an-E, of course.

 

Hopeing Jag can close that gap to Porsche, but looks like a fun track.



#8 TomNokoe

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 22:53

Expecting a big crowd! I will be up bright and early on Saturday, from my sofa.

Edited by TomNokoe, 07 February 2023 - 23:16.


#9 Ben1445

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Posted 07 February 2023 - 23:45

An interesting point ahead of this weekend is that taking more than two consecutive wins in FE is rather rare. It’s only been done twice, once by Buemi in Season 3, and then a second time by Da Costa in Season 6.

Wehrlein has a chance to match that this weekend.

(Also a not insignificant chance of setting a new FE record with four in s row come Cape Town… but that’s getting ahead of ourselves a little).

#10 Alan Lewis

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 00:29

Excellent OP, and I see that Channel 4 is actually showing this one live on the electric television, so I'll also be up early. As I'm also staying up late on Sunday for the Superbowl the rest of the weekend is going to be a lazy one.

In the grand tradition of tenuously relevant posts, it's interesting to note that the last Nizam of Hyderabad died just last month. He had a bit of an interesting life...

https://en.wikipedia...ki/Mukarram_Jah

Anyway, biryani. Yum.

#11 thegamer23

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 08:55

Di Grassi's simulator lap around Hyderabad

 

https://twitter.com/...212923488460802

The first chicane looks very fast and pretty scary by the looks of things with that wall.
Reminds me of some of the Punta del Este chicanes.

 

If it's like this in real life, than the cars will carry out quite a lot of speed in the main straight.

 

 

immagine-2023-02-08-095943435.png

 

 

 

Even though i expect someone to do THIS, looking at the shape of that corner

 

Clipping the inside wall than smashing hard into the barriers seems like a real possibility, but we'll have to see if it's like that IRL.


Edited by thegamer23, 08 February 2023 - 09:28.


#12 Peat

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 09:04

If that's in any way accurate, how is it justified on either saftey or regen grounds?

It's a fast chicane with a perpenidicular tyre wall next to the racing line.



#13 Ben1445

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 09:20

Blimey. Talk about threading the needle... 

 

Love how Di Grassi straight out skips the chicane by the pits on that lap as if it's nothing.



#14 Ben1445

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 09:22

Little bit of a character study on Wehrlein (or, at least, Sam Smith's interpretation) this morning: 

https://the-race.com...world-champion/



#15 Muppetmad

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 09:27

That chicane is asking for a lot of trouble.



#16 MattK9

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 10:15

I would be suprised if the T1 chicane actually looks like that. That is very stupid corner. There is no way that is safer than a sweeping corner.

 

Any slight touch on the wall of the first apex with send the car head first into the second apex at a relatively high speed. If any of the front runners in the race do that there will be a huge pile up as they all pile into the same accident.

 

We shall see soon what it actually looks like!



#17 Ben1445

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 11:38

Autosport article with Jake Dennis:

Dennis singles out Jaguar as Porsche's biggest Formula E threat
Jake Dennis says Porsche cannot let off its development of its Gen3 Formula E powertrain, and singled out Jaguar as a threat to the German manufacturer in the coming rounds.
https://www.autospor...hreat/10429454/

 

Thinks there's a good chance Porsche could be caught incoming rounds, and if not then perhaps at the start of the European leg... accurate assessment or just the required mentality of a frontrunner? 


Edited by Ben1445, 08 February 2023 - 11:41.


#18 Ben1445

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 11:47

Little bit of a character study on Wehrlein (or, at least, Sam Smith's interpretation) this morning: 
https://the-race.com...world-champion/

 
Little piece of news from this I hadn't heard before today: 
 
"[Wehrlein is] in a happy place at the moment. About to become a father for the first time, he seems settled and happy with his partner Sibel. He announced his impending fatherhood at Porsche’s annual celebration just before Christmas and there was a genuine beam to his face."


Edited by Ben1445, 08 February 2023 - 11:48.


#19 Imateria

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 12:42

Autosport article with Jake Dennis:

Dennis singles out Jaguar as Porsche's biggest Formula E threat
Jake Dennis says Porsche cannot let off its development of its Gen3 Formula E powertrain, and singled out Jaguar as a threat to the German manufacturer in the coming rounds.
https://www.autospor...hreat/10429454/

 

Thinks there's a good chance Porsche could be caught incoming rounds, and if not then perhaps at the start of the European leg... accurate assessment or just the required mentality of a frontrunner? 

I'd say the Gen 2 era gave us strong precedent for exactly this happening, most seasons started with 1 team seamingly dominant and then being caught by some of the rest. Jaguar are particularly good at catchup, only scored 1 point in the first 3 races last year but absolutely crushed the opposition through the middle of the year.



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#20 Ben1445

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 12:53

We also can’t forget Buemi’s incredibly dominant start to Season 3, only to end up losing the title to Di Grassi in Montreal.

Granted, that wasn’t helped by a Buemi missing a race in New York for a date clash and infamously binning it in practice, but it certainly shows how wrong things can go from a solid start.

#21 MattK9

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 13:25

Buemi won 6 out of 12 races in season 3 but didnt become Champion. He missed the 2 races in New York and was DSQ from 2 races.

 

I think it is fair to say that Buemi would probably won the title had he not missed the races in New York, however he absoluted bottled it on the final 2 races. And hasnt really been the same driver since. Not in FE anyway.



#22 Ben1445

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 13:36

Was clear to see how emotional Buemi was to take a pole in Diriyah, highlighting himself the creeping self-doubt of the last few seasons.

#23 Ben1445

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 13:39

8hzri9U.gif
 (courtesy of a reddit comment)

 

I suppose it's kind of similar to Mexico T1? 


Edited by Ben1445, 08 February 2023 - 13:42.


#24 thegamer23

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 13:51

I like the challenge of it.

That "chicane" should separate the men from the boys, if confirmed, and the cars should still carry speed towards second half of the straight.
Happy that it's not a slow ass chicane, it's more of a fast kink.

 

 

Having said that, looks quite dangerous with that outside wall, i doubt they're going to keep that in place.

 

Looking forward to see the track pics.


Edited by thegamer23, 08 February 2023 - 14:14.


#25 Ben1445

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 13:58

If they don’t place the tyres there it might be no trouble at all.

Would be interesting to be able to hear what drivers say on the track walk and in drivers briefings.

#26 thegamer23

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 16:29



#27 thegamer23

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 16:59

We've got an Hyderabad e-Prix Anthem!

India rules!



#28 tourister46a

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 17:10

Great OP! I don't really watch FE, but I will be following this race with interest, since I am Hyderabadi, born and raised :clap: . I cannot attend the event since I no longer live there, but the area around the Hussain Sagar lake has been a favorite recreational spot for Hyderabadis over the decades. No better spot for a street race. I was a frequent visitor in the early-mid 2000s.

 

My Corvette from 2010 foreshadowing the ePrix  :cat:

 

Screen-Shot-2023-02-08-at-11-59-03-AM.pn
 


#29 BRG

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 17:34

How is Formula E coping with the tax issues that sunk the F1 Indian GP? 



#30 juicy sushi

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 18:10

I think Nunaya  Biznez is taking care of that.



#31 Ben1445

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 18:15

The tax issue with the Grand Prix was supposed to be to do with the local government of Uttar Pradesh classifying F1 as entertainment rather than a sport and so taxes and duties were raised on anything related to the event - right?

(Why India's Formula 1 Grand Prix is under threat - BBC http://www.bbc.co.uk...siness-24659690)

This race isn’t in the state of Uttar Pradesh but the state of Telangana, so presumably it’s a different local government led by entirely different people almost a decade after the Grand Prix’s demise. I simply don’t know if they’re classifying this event as sport or as entertainment or what the taxes they might raise on either type of event would be.

I don’t think we even know enough about the specific reasons the government of Uttar Pradesh took the stance they did?
.

Edited by Ben1445, 08 February 2023 - 18:25.


#32 tourister46a

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Posted 08 February 2023 - 19:51

The Formula E event seems to be a pet project of K T Rama Rao, a minister in the Telangana State government, and son of the Chief Minister of the state of Telangana. As long as they are in power, the race should be safe. 


Edited by tourister46a, 08 February 2023 - 19:51.


#33 RSRally

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 05:38

I wonder if the extra chicane is so that direct lap time comparisons with other series are not possible (a la Monaco 2021)

I can't believe it's for regen since they haven't even been using the full battery capacity so far this year.

#34 thegamer23

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 07:58

I wonder if the extra chicane is so that direct lap time comparisons with other series are not possible (a la Monaco 2021)

I can't believe it's for regen since they haven't even been using the full battery capacity so far this year.

 

 

Wich other series, the track was only used for the indian racing league?
 

I think it's just to limit the speed of the cars a bit before the first turn hairpin, wich has limited runoff.

The track was homologated before FE  managed to introduce the secondary emergency brake system, so they remained on the safe side of things.

 

 

Nice track map with all the structures

Huge amount of grandstands!
 

 

hyderabad.png

 

 

 

 

We should see some pics of the track later today as the drivers do their traditional track walk!
 

 

Fogash-YWIAcea6d.jpg


Edited by thegamer23, 09 February 2023 - 08:01.


#35 Ben1445

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 10:34

Baseline race distance set for 32 laps for 92.8km distance, added laps pending.

Energy allocation is 40kWh again, same as in Diriyah.

(A reminder that Gen2 allocation was 52kWh, which is a good indicator of efficiency gains I guess primarily through the increased regen levels)

#36 Ben1445

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 11:19

Here's that chicane - Sam Smith doesn't seem to think there will be tyres at the second apex based on his tweet: 

sniffermedia @sniffermedia
This is the new chicane at T1/2. Expect this to be a major talking point of track limits etc this weekend #HyderabadEPrix

Foh-Tt7g-Xs-AYr-Dq-U.jpg

#37 thegamer23

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 11:59

Punta del Este chicane vibes, love it!

 

Should be quite a tricky one to get right, entry speed should be high and the one who gets the better exit in the race could have a good overtaking opportunity in the following long straight.

 

 

edit:
 

immagine-2023-02-09-132416251.png


Edited by thegamer23, 09 February 2023 - 12:24.


#38 MattK9

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 12:39

Here's that chicane - Sam Smith doesn't seem to think there will be tyres at the second apex based on his tweet: 

sniffermedia @sniffermedia
This is the new chicane at T1/2. Expect this to be a major talking point of track limits etc this weekend #HyderabadEPrix

 

 

Some common sense at least. Although FE will have problem with track limits for the first time in a long time. Its not something Scot Elkins normally has to worry about, so I think track limits will be throughly abused in the race and the group stages in quali, but not the deals in quali.

 

Of course T1/2 isnt the only place track limits is a problem at this circuit. The layout of the circuit will probably be revised for next year on the back of some of the "lessons" of this year, so this will be the only running in this exact configuration.



#39 MattK9

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 12:46

Baseline race distance set for 32 laps for 92.8km distance, added laps pending.

Energy allocation is 40kWh again, same as in Diriyah.

 

Where is this info published please, Ben?

 

Battery is 47kWh. Makes me wonder why they dont make the race longer?



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#40 thegamer23

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 13:41

Another interesting thing of the race will be the temperatures.

34°c expected:

nobody ever tested Gen 3 on these kind of temperatures yet, so will be curious to see.

 

 

 

133.png


Edited by thegamer23, 09 February 2023 - 14:25.


#41 MattK9

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 15:38

Another interesting thing of the race will be the temperatures.

34°c expected:

nobody ever tested Gen 3 on these kind of temperatures yet, so will be curious to see.

 

 

Surely they did private tests in the late summer in spain?



#42 Ben1445

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 15:42

Where is this info published please, Ben?

It's on the Event Notes for the race, a document which is usually linked to by the helpful folks who run the Formula E Reddit page in their Race Weekend Information posts.

Battery is 47kWh. Makes me wonder why they dont make the race longer?

On paper it certainly sounds like they could extend the race distance by around 10% at current race pace, or keep the current race duration but permit faster track configurations.

My two leading theories as to why they may not be using more kWh would be:
A) That they want to keep races to one less than hour duration to make broadcast scheduling easier, and the tyres are the limiting factor on pace at the venues they visit, and/or
B) That they're putting a slightly lighter duty cycle on the new Gen3 batteries given how hard they're pushing them on regen/recharge compared to Gen2

Some further wild speculation about Theory B could be about meeting something like reliability targets, since it would be in next to nobody's interests to see spec-battery failures harming the racing product, and that current run-data only guarantees that to the limits they’re placing on it. But it is important to note that I have no direct evidence to support any of these theories and I do not know the real reasons.

I'm hoping it is the case that through a combination of tyre development, track design and growing confidence in the Gen3 systems that they can unlock those extra few kWh that we think the car has available to use.

Edited by Ben1445, 09 February 2023 - 15:54.


#43 thegamer23

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Posted 09 February 2023 - 16:58

Pit-lane preview Show!

 



#44 thegamer23

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Posted 10 February 2023 - 06:45

Even Sam smith is hyped!

FP1 at 11.00!!

20230210-074342.jpg

 

Fol6-ZBj-Xw-AABQZz-1.jpg


Edited by thegamer23, 10 February 2023 - 09:01.


#45 thegamer23

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Posted 10 February 2023 - 09:56

Van Der Linde crashed in the Shakedown.

Tricky conditions already, lot of dust on track.

 

-1 hour to FP1


Edited by thegamer23, 10 February 2023 - 10:01.


#46 MattK9

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Posted 10 February 2023 - 10:19

It's on the Event Notes for the race, a document which is usually linked to by the helpful folks who run the Formula E Reddit page in their Race Weekend Information posts.
On paper it certainly sounds like they could extend the race distance by around 10% at current race pace, or keep the current race duration but permit faster track configurations.

My two leading theories as to why they may not be using more kWh would be:
A) That they want to keep races to one less than hour duration to make broadcast scheduling easier, and the tyres are the limiting factor on pace at the venues they visit, and/or
B) That they're putting a slightly lighter duty cycle on the new Gen3 batteries given how hard they're pushing them on regen/recharge compared to Gen2

Some further wild speculation about Theory B could be about meeting something like reliability targets, since it would be in next to nobody's interests to see spec-battery failures harming the racing product, and that current run-data only guarantees that to the limits they’re placing on it. But it is important to note that I have no direct evidence to support any of these theories and I do not know the real reasons.

I'm hoping it is the case that through a combination of tyre development, track design and growing confidence in the Gen3 systems that they can unlock those extra few kWh that we think the car has available to use.

 

Thank you for the event notes.

 

The battery is 47 kWh gross, and 51 kWh total. By keeping the races at only 40kWh they are keeping the battery usage at less than 80% of the total battery charge.   i.e. start the race with only 90% charge, finish the race with more than 10%. That is inline with general recommendations for a road going EV on how to prolong battery life. That seems sensible if they are nervous about the battery, it would be awful if the championship is decided by failure of a spec part.



#47 Ben1445

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Posted 10 February 2023 - 10:24

Looking forward to seeing how the track looks during FP1

Unfortunately for me I may have to catch up with much if the weekend action after the event, for I will be in Germany sneaking around Porsche’s workshops to see if I can find out why their Gen3 cars are so fast.

(Disclaimer: the above statement is only partially true)

#48 thegamer23

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Posted 10 February 2023 - 10:56

We Go GREEN in Hyderabad for Free Practice 1

 



#49 Ben1445

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Posted 10 February 2023 - 11:04

45 minute delay for dust?

#50 thegamer23

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Posted 10 February 2023 - 11:06

Yep some delay.
Maybe still some work to be done on the circuit.

Nelson Piquet Jr in the commentary booth with Jack & Karun! :up: