51 replies to this topic

[Jon Saltinstall]

Looking forward to catching up with friends old and new at Race Retro, Stoneleigh Park, at the end of the month. For my sins, I’ll be on the live stage talking about the Ickx book on all three days. Fellow Evro author Cristian Besley will also be doing the same on Friday. Should be fun!

https://www.raceretr...ghts/live-stage

Edited by Jon Saltinstall, 11 February 2023 - 08:25.

[sstiel]

Looking forward to catching up with friends old and new at Race Retro, Stoneleigh Park, at the end of the month. For my sins, I’ll be on the live stage talking about the Ickx book on all three days. Fellow Evro author Cristian Besley will also be doing the same on Friday. Should be fun!

https://www.raceretr...ghts/live-stage

Bravo Jon. I'll be there on the Saturday. 

[Derwent Motorsport]

It will be interesting to see how good it is this year.  They certainly have less room booked for displays with two of the "cold" halls being out of action and construction work for HS2 in progress in the grounds. 

The entry list for the rally is impressive, perhaps too much quantity over quality though.  

I gather Autosport was poor this year and attendance down so I hope RR will be better.

[FLB]

It will be interesting to see how good it is this year.  They certainly have less room booked for displays with two of the "cold" halls being out of action and construction work for HS2 in progress in the grounds. 

The entry list for the rally is impressive, perhaps too much quantity over quality though.  

I gather Autosport was poor this year and attendance down so I hope RR will be better.

Well, if it's any encouragement, Rétromobile had a very successful year: Rétromobile 2023 : gros succès pour le salon dédié aux voitures anciennes - Auto Live Magazine (auto-live.fr)

 

 

Apparently, they had their second-biggest crowd since the show's creation in 1976.

[FastReader]

I shall be at Race Retro but how stupid is it that the London Classic Car Show have arranged their event at Olympia on the same weekend?

[Derwent Motorsport]

I shall be at Race Retro but how stupid is it that the London Classic Car Show have arranged their event at Olympia on the same weekend?

Yes indeed, it must hit both shows from both exhibitors and public attendance.  They have clashed ever since the London Show started.  Illogical. 

[ensign14]

Not really, it's typical of London to try to destroy anything happening in the rest of the country.

[PRD]

I'll be going to Race Retro on Friday 24th, so will be in the audience for Jon's talk at 12.30

 

I've downloaded the floor plan and although I'm sure the show will be really interesting, it does look to be much smaller than in previous years. However it's always the dilemma- if we don't support them, then they won't happen and we'd all be sorry.

 

 

https://cdn.asp.even...t_Floorplan.pdf

[AllanL]

Not unusual for my brain to fade, but BRM at 2-531 doesn't seem to be on the map?

 

I can't see whether the French cheese guy has a stall this year either, that's usually the peace offering to SWMBO. I'm sure she'll be happy with the WWII Spitfire Compass from the auction instead.

 

One of the biggest stalls seems to be for coffee. Perhaps they will have seats for browsing purchases from Chaters.

[Collombin]

Not unusual for my brain to fade, but BRM at 2-531 doesn't seem to be on the map?

Look at where it says "Hall 2" then cast your eyes slightly up and right.

[AllanL]

Thanks, I won't question the logic - I'm far enough behind as it is!

[PRD]

Just home from Race Retro after almost seven hours driving today. It's a journey of 160 miles from where I live in Devon, so three hours to get there and four hours back thanks to queueing traffic  .

 

Anyway, what to think about Race Retro. First of all, it's a much smaller show than previous editions with a lot of small stalls crammed into two halls. The third hall is full of cars from Silverstone Auctions and costs another £10 for a catalogue and entry. There are some of the usual stalls- I visited Hortons and Chaters, as well as the company publishing books about Gerry Birrell and Jim Crawford as well as various other book and memorabilia sellers. There weren't many cars on display and fewer stalls of interest than they had before. My impression was that by cramming the stalls together there was less room to move around and it was all a bit crowded.

 

The auto jumble was a few tents outside and pretty poorly supported, although I can't say I'm surprised at the numbers given the weather this time of year. It rained at lunchtime and they all looked pretty miserable.

 

I enjoyed the talks-Louise Aitken-Walker was fun and the four authors (including Jon) were most interesting. I went with a list of possible books to buy, and only came back with Mike Wild's autobiography and a copy of Glen Smale's Porsche at Le Mans which I'd missed out on when it first came out in 201, so I suppose it saved me some dosh. (Don't worry Jon, I've already got both your Ickx and Lauda books  )

 

Would I go again? I've really missed Race Retro and I understand that it must take an awful lot of work to get it up and running after a three year hiatus especially in the present challenging economic conditions, but it was really barely worth the effort and for it to succeed it really must get back to somewhere nearer the size and scope it was before. 

[Cirrus]

I agree with all of the above. Race Retro Friday was, in the past, the day when "serious" historic enthusiasts and racers met up to discuss the forthcoming season, swap parts and generally socialise. There was a distinct lack of club stands and support industry stands this year. However, enthusiasts of watches, pizza ovens, designer gins and jewellery were catered for...

[mariner]

I am not going because we have visitors but looking through the exhibitors' list II came across "Equipe Classic Racing" who appear to run a series of 1950's/60's /70's events at Brands, Silverstone and Donington.

,

https://equipeclassicracing.com

 

However when I look at the circuit calendars no such events show up. 

 

Do I presume therefore that these are closed to public as they are  " gentleman racer  only" events ?

 

I think that is quite common in USA but I wasn't aware of closed Historic events in UK.

[2F-001]

Mariner - on their website they list events scheduled for nine different meetings, together with the dates (all on different circuits); as far as I'm aware their races take place on regular race days run by the the more familiar/prolific organising bodies. Or are you finding no meetings at all listed for those dates?

 

I think I've seen some of their races on HSCC-run meetings in the past - I think they organise races/series rather than meetings as a whole.

Edited by 2F-001, 25 February 2023 - 13:28.

[bsc]

https://equipeclassicracing.com

However when I look at the circuit calendars no such events show up.

Do I presume therefore that these are closed to public as they are " gentleman racer only" events ?

The calendar on Equipe Classic Racing's website is accurate. Some of the events will be run by other clubs (such as the June Silverstone round). MSV have also taken to describing the events on their circuits websites as Pre 1966 Sports cars as, I guess, it's an easier way of explaining what's happening. Either way, the events will be open to the public.

[PRD]

When my bro-in-law started Britcar, he’d take vacant slots in other promoters race meetings, I remember doing a Britcar race at Snetterton with the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club.
So I don’t think the practice is unusual or uncommon

[MCS]

I shall be at Race Retro but how stupid is it that the London Classic Car Show have arranged their event at Olympia on the same weekend?

Judging by the large numbers of likely looking attendees (attire and, dare I say, age), the Tube and London Overground were both busy around Olympia yesterday (Friday).   I wasn't in attendance but suspect there was a significant turnout.

 

As others have said, pretty gormless to have the two events clashing.  So unnecessary.

[Cirrus]

When my bro-in-law started Britcar, he’d take vacant slots in other promoters race meetings, I remember doing a Britcar race at Snetterton with the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club.
So I don’t think the practice is unusual or uncommon

I think it's going to become the norm in the future. Circuit hire is very expensive and the bigger clubs will be looking to sell track time to the smaller ones that can't afford a full day's circuit hire.

[bsc]

So I don’t think the practice is unusual or uncommon

Far from it. Plus, I think it can make for some interesting race meetings with a good 'guest' category being added to the usual fare (Britcar was a good example).

[Stephen W]

Comments gathered from another forum:

1) What a waste of time!!!

2) Gash. Waste of money!

3) I was hoping for a cracker, but it was a wrinkly balloon of a show.

Interestingly, Demon Tweeks were there and several other like minded suppliers, but too many toys, jewelry and gin stands.
Autojumble was very down on last time, but good to see MAC and BOC there with big stands of their own.

4) Smaller than before, BUT, the Dunlop stand was really big, the only race tyre company there.

5) Overall I thought the show was a shadow of its former self. And £7.50 for a pastie!

 

Glad I decided not to bother this year!

[Derwent Motorsport]

I was there Friday and Saturday.  I have a press pass so no £30 fee.  Much smaller show with far too many non motoring stalls. I wonder how much gin there stalls actually sold relatively to the cost of being there?   The organisers seem to want to rip everyone off, stall holders and the public. perhaps if they made the stalls cheaper they would get more of them. When it was the IHMS clubs got display space for free or very little. 

The rally stage was good but there were too many non historic entries. 

There was no programme either.  Apparently not enough advertised to cover the cost. But surely a simple A5 booklet with maps and list of stall, plus importantly the list of the rally competitors would have cost nothing?

Like Autosport they must do better to get people back,

[sabrejet]

No photos?

[FastReader]

I was there Friday and Saturday.  I have a press pass so no £30 fee.  Much smaller show with far too many non motoring stalls. I wonder how much gin there stalls actually sold relatively to the cost of being there?   The organisers seem to want to rip everyone off, stall holders and the public. perhaps if they made the stalls cheaper they would get more of them. When it was the IHMS clubs got display space for free or very little. 

The rally stage was good but there were too many non historic entries. 

There was no programme either.  Apparently not enough advertised to cover the cost. But surely a simple A5 booklet with maps and list of stall, plus importantly the list of the rally competitors would have cost nothing?

Like Autosport they must do better to get people back,

I agree with much of what has been written about the show on this thread, and having made the 350 mile round trip from East Sussex yesterday, I won't be going next year unless it's back to its pre-Covid size. Indeed, one of the exhibitors I spoke to was scathing about the cost of entry relative to the reduced scale of the show. However, whilst there was no programme, there was a free pocket sized fold out show guide with all of the information you mention, the list of rally competitors and rally timetable being accessed via a QR code to the show's website.

[Giraffe]

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

 

I have attended most of the Race Retros since the show's inception, and was there on Friday. As Race Retros go, I thought it was not too bad on the whole.

The show has changed hands several times now and people here have short memories as a couple of the early editions were pretty shambolic! Equally some were much better than this year's offering.

 

The organisation was poor, the parking instructions/directions were/are perennially incorrect, and I believe led to the usual bunfight. I am fortunate in that I know my way around the site and gain preferential parking as I'm blue badged.  Living only 30 minutes from the show, I ensure that I arrived before 9am to avoid the chaos.

 

As 9.30am arrived, they started scanning visitors in, but realising the sheer scale of the operation, they quickly abandoned that and just waved everyone through whether you showed a ticket or not, taking everyone on trust!!! I left the show at lunchtime and then scanned myself back in for the first time at about 1pm!!!

 

I cannot blame the organisers for selling stands to anyone and everyone, after all they have the space and their money is as good as anyones and you are not going to turn them down. However I was bemused to see Costco arriving and setting up their stand at 11am on Friday!!!

 

I still managed to see and talk to a fair number of TNFers, and that in itself is good enough reason for me to attend, but the fact that the HSCC didn't consider the show worth supporting this year says it all.

I had a good day, but had I have travelled from Newcastle or Plymouth rather than made a 56 mile round trip, I would surely have felt differently. 

[68targa]

I  attended Friday and agree with most of the previous comments. The show was not like previous editions which were much larger -when we had the unheated halls for the autrojumble and rally cars.  It would be good to see some more autojumble/ automobilia stalls and also more car exhibits. Also I found the lighting in Hall 1 too dark. However this is the first time since 2020 and the organisers took a leap of faith in putting on this show. amidst economic doom and gloom. There seemed to be a good attendance which must  be good news to encourage them to hold another next year and improve things from the feedback they will get.  I hope so otherwise we won't have anything.

Edited by 68targa, 26 February 2023 - 17:39.

[sabrejet]

What worries me about this (from comments) is that the show seems to have gone from being an already rally-focussed event to being mainly rally and lots of stands selling non-motorsport stuff. Not being a massive fan of tin-tops or designer ponchos, it doesn't sound like it's aimed at me anymore. In the past I liked the variety seen in each hall but it's not worth the 150-odd mile round-trip if it ends up with the autojumble being the main draw. It's also a truism that it only takes one poor show to put one off going again at all.  

[geordiecraig101]

I was there on Saturday and really enjoyed it. I'm not sure what people were expecting, COVID has changed everything and to think the world will go back to how it was (if it ever will?) is maybe a bit short sighted. What shows need is for people to get behind them. Tho saying that, to have two big events on at the same time is a bit poor from both event organisers, they should be working together not against each other.

 

The live rally stage was great viewing, the extended viewing areas worked great, the entry is was down a little bit but again there was a clash with the East Riding Stages which might have played apart.

 

Anyway here's my vid from the live stage on Saturday for anyone who interested: 

 

https://youtu.be/4DycChTic4M

[Derwent Motorsport]

On the rally, I would have liked to see fewer but better cars. Quality and not quantity. Not many Group B cars or genuine historics. 

 

Who was driving the MG Maestro that was not in the entry list? He was going well and putting some of the Escorts and Sunbeams around him to shame. 

[sstiel]

Congratulations to Jon of course for featuring on the live stage again courtesy of the Jacky Ickx book.

 

And to our colleagues Darren and Kevin for their books about Gerry Birrell and Jim Crawford respectively. 

[sabrejet]

I was there on Saturday and really enjoyed it. I'm not sure what people were expecting, COVID has changed everything and to think the world will go back to how it was (if it ever will?) is maybe a bit short sighted. What shows need is for people to get behind them. Tho saying that, to have two big events on at the same time is a bit poor from both event organisers, they should be working together not against each other.

 

That's an excuse I'm afraid: plenty of events have returned bigger, better and reinvented (Silverstone Classic, Goodwood FoS, MM and Revival, Concours of Elegance, all the various hill climbs I've been to - though the latter initially with no paddock access). Some impressively-staged events even managed public access in 2020 during a brief gap in lockdowns. In fact, from what I've read, Race Retro may be unique in NOT being as good or better than it was pre-Covid.

 

Covid may have changed things but thankfully our resistance to gaslighting and BS is undiminshed.

[geordiecraig101]

That's an excuse I'm afraid: plenty of events have returned bigger, better and reinvented (Silverstone Classic, Goodwood FoS, MM and Revival, Concours of Elegance, all the various hill climbs I've been to - though the latter initially with no paddock access). Some impressively-staged events even managed public access in 2020 during a brief gap in lockdowns. In fact, from what I've read, Race Retro may be unique in NOT being as good or better than it was pre-Covid.

 

Covid may have changed things but thankfully our resistance to gaslighting and BS is undiminshed.

 

That's very true, they all have come back tho its all down to personal perception of what you expect from each event. All the ones you have mentioned are much much much bigger in every single way that Race Retro could ever dream of being so comparing them is pointless. Not so much apples to pears, but more like boxing gloves to nuclear weapons. I've not been to any Goodwood event but i do go to the Classic (now known as the Festival) and i wouldn't think of them in the same way. That's not to say I thought Race Retro was perfect as it wasn't, no event ever can be.

[sabrejet]

All the ones you have mentioned are much much much bigger in every single way that Race Retro could ever dream of being so comparing them is pointless. Not so much apples to pears, but more like boxing gloves to nuclear weapons. I've not been to any Goodwood event but i do go to the Classic (now known as the Festival) and i wouldn't think of them in the same way. That's not to say I thought Race Retro was perfect as it wasn't, no event ever can be.

 

Race Retro not as big as a hill climb event? Wow. The mighty really have fallen. I've been to many 'perfect; events recently too. No issues with expectations here.

[FastReader]

I was there on Saturday and really enjoyed it. I'm not sure what people were expecting, COVID has changed everything and to think the world will go back to how it was (if it ever will?) is maybe a bit short sighted. What shows need is for people to get behind them. Tho saying that, to have two big events on at the same time is a bit poor from both event organisers, they should be working together not against each other.

I'm pretty sure that Race Retro announced their dates first so I think the blame lies more squarely with the organisers of the London show. Either way it was gross stupidity. I would've gone to both events if they'd been on different weekends and I don't suppose I'm alone in that.

[doc knutsen]

 

[/IMG]

[/IMG]

 

I have attended most of the Race Retros since the show's inception, and was there on Friday. As Race Retros go, I thought it was not too bad on the whole.

The show has changed hands several times now and people here have short memories as a couple of the early editions were pretty shambolic! Equally some were much better than this year's offering.

 

The organisation was poor, the parking instructions/directions were/are perennially incorrect, and I believe led to the usual bunfight. I am fortunate in that I know my way around the site and gain preferential parking as I'm blue badged.  Living only 30 minutes from the show, I ensure that I arrived before 9am to avoid the chaos.

 

As 9.30am arrived, they started scanning visitors in, but realising the sheer scale of the operation, they quickly abandoned that and just waved everyone through whether you showed a ticket or not, taking everyone on trust!!! I left the show at lunchtime and then scanned myself back in for the first time at about 1pm!!!

 

I cannot blame the organisers for selling stands to anyone and everyone, after all they have the space and their money is as good as anyones and you are not going to turn them down. However I was bemused to see Costco arriving and setting up their stand at 11am on Friday!!!

 

I still managed to see and talk to a fair number of TNFers, and that in itself is good enough reason for me to attend, but the fact that the HSCC didn't consider the show worth supporting this year says it all.

I had a good day, but had I have travelled from Newcastle or Plymouth rather than made a 56 mile round trip, I would surely have felt differently. 

 

 

 

That's an excuse I'm afraid: plenty of events have returned bigger, better and reinvented (Silverstone Classic, Goodwood FoS, MM and Revival, Concours of Elegance, all the various hill climbs I've been to - though the latter initially with no paddock access). Some impressively-staged events even managed public access in 2020 during a brief gap in lockdowns. In fact, from what I've read, Race Retro may be unique in NOT being as good or better than it was pre-Covid.

 

Covid may have changed things but thankfully our resistance to gaslighting and BS is undiminshed.

I travelled from Oslo, Norway and expected to be a bit disappointed. I have been to all the Race Retros and enjoyed them, but with the effects of pandemic and the present economic climate in the UK,  I was preparing for the worst but hoping for the best, to paraphrase Jack Reacher.

I decided to show my support for the Race Retro concept in the hope that it might lead to bigger and better things in the future.

For consolation, my wife and I went up to Lincolnshire, stayed at the Petwood and visited the Lincolnshire Aviation museum at East Kirkby. Besides the Lancaster and the Mosquito, they recently took delivery of a B-25 Mitchell. That part of our journey was excellent!

[Stephen W]

Another "review" of the show:

 

I went with my two sons yesterday. 275 mile round trip and £90 for the three of us to get in was a waste of time and money - we arrived at 10 and left for home by 2.30. The show is a shadow of it's former self...not enough "Retro Race Car" focus and more un-related stands from a plethora of toy car sellers to Gin sellers and even a guy doing foot massage. What are the organisers thinking??
As my eldest son commented that he's had it with shows and figures £30 is better spent attending a race meeting! I tend to agree!!

[alansart]

Another "review" of the show:

 

I went with my two sons yesterday. 275 mile round trip and £90 for the three of us to get in was a waste of time and money - we arrived at 10 and left for home by 2.30. The show is a shadow of it's former self...not enough "Retro Race Car" focus and more un-related stands from a plethora of toy car sellers to Gin sellers and even a guy doing foot massage. What are the organisers thinking??
As my eldest son commented that he's had it with shows and figures £30 is better spent attending a race meeting! I tend to agree!!

I was tempted to go but had heard a few reports beforehand that it was smaller and the direction had changed a bit. Even before Covid it had gone down hill a little from when I first went in 2012. There were a few people I'd like to have met up with of course but that can wait until later in the year. I have a busy home life at the moment and had to choose between Race Retro and Masters Testing at Donington next week. Donington won.

I do hope the organisers look at the criticism and take it on board. I've always enjoyed the event and hope it can regain some of it's former glory.

[john aston]

I went and it was fine , and good to meet up with some names from here , 'Not as good as it was' seems a popular refrain  - and whilst I can  chelp about the parking and Stoneleigh's pervasive air of neglect and decay the real problem is people like us . Not enough of us go , because ( take your pick ) it is the  timing , location , expense, food stalls - you name it . And , just like fewer people like us buy car magazines (price, watch adverts , free online ) so the owner/organiser profit reduces and the quality declines in a deadly spiral. 

 

 

Both may be doomed , because at Stoneleigh I see too many  people like me - old gits (obviously not including my youthful TNF colleagues) grumping that fings ain't wot they used to be. 

[flatoutflatbroke]

I attended both Autosport and Race Retro and have been to both many time over the years. Both shows were a shadow of their former selves. As others have said, perhaps COVID has changed the way people do business and consume their classic fix. We probably expected both to come back with a bang rather than a whimper and I think both suffer from a lack of focus. Autosport to my mind is trying to please two markets and missing both and if you don't have the budget/desire to create great content and rely on 'exhibitors' to do it for you, then you are reliant on what they wheel through the door.

 

I fear that both events are more led by space sellers than content creators, which means you end up with an unfocused offering that satisfy's no one - not enough B2B for the industry exhibitors and not enough content for the paying public.

[PRD]

I went and it was fine , and good to meet up with some names from here , 'Not as good as it was' seems a popular refrain  - and whilst I can  chelp about the parking and Stoneleigh's pervasive air of neglect and decay the real problem is people like us . Not enough of us go , because ( take your pick ) it is the  timing , location , expense, food stalls - you name it . And , just like fewer people like us buy car magazines (price, watch adverts , free online ) so the owner/organiser profit reduces and the quality declines in a deadly spiral. 

 

 

Both may be doomed , because at Stoneleigh I see too many  people like me - old gits (obviously not including my youthful TNF colleagues) grumping that fings ain't wot they used to be. 

 

Yes John, you're right. The audience was virtually all white middle-class, grey haired bods like myself and the problem is that if we don't support events they'll die out. That doesn't mean that the organisers should be immune from constructive criticism, but leaves the dilemma of whether to go next year. I think I'll leave that decision until next January.

[flatoutflatbroke]

The logical thing is that because there is so much disruption at Stoneleigh due to HS2 that they amalgamate their Practical Classics show at the NEC (not popular with all) to add RR to that. You would lose the rally stage, but the orgaisers were very fortunate that it had not rained up to the event or during the event, if it had they would have lost all of the grass public and the exhibitors parking, which is the risk of an event on a showground which is 90% grass.

[john aston]

Yes John, you're right. The audience was virtually all white middle-class, grey haired bods like myself and the problem is that if we don't support events they'll die out. That doesn't mean that the organisers should be immune from constructive criticism, but leaves the dilemma of whether to go next year. I think I'll leave that decision until next January.

  Things like Race Retro need to move with the times and include content which appeals to younger folk . I attend a lot of different events  and what is so noticeable is that things like Time Attack , Autograss and drag racing have much younger audiences . Anything with classic JDM content - older Skylines , Nissan Z cars and Honda R series has a fanatical following . Autograss has its own nostalgia category too and a live demo would be great . But the real potential lies with  the whole nostalgia drag community , which is big here and huge in the USA . There was a hint of it on the Santa Pod stand, but the spectacle of half a dozen blown big block V8s being warmed up outside would   get some more pulses racing.

 

Of course it's comfortable for  old farts to enjoy being surrounded by other old farts but it's adapt or die , I think , and I'd; love to see more younger folk sharing our passion .  

Edited by john aston, 01 March 2023 - 06:58.

[Derwent Motorsport]

In the early days of the show they had autotests demos as well.  I am sure it would be possible to set up a simple demo course for speed event cars as well. 

[flatoutflatbroke]

In the early days of the show they had autotests demos as well.  I am sure it would be possible to set up a simple demo course for speed event cars as well. 

 

I don't think you could, most of the hard standing is based around businesses that are open on the Thurs/Fri of the event and you would probably need a permit for this to cover the organizer's liability. Moving cars and the public combined are a hazzard most people are trying to avoid in the litigious world we live in now.

[elansprint72]

Everything has already been said! I will not be going to Autosport International again and I'm very unlikely to visit Race Retro; this is even though I have Press Pass for both and don't have to pay to see what's in the auction (which was the best bit of the "show"). 

[ensign14]

Well, I enjoyed RR anyway, better value than Autosport which was hugely disappointing and has a premium for a demo I don't want to see.  But it does need to be bigger with a colder autojumble.  I put that down to the Cockney ****s maliciously trying to murder it.

[Dick Dastardly]

I remember the 2 shows clashed over the same weekend before.....link is from 2017  

 

A Tale of Two Historic Shows | HistoricRacingNews.com

[ensign14]

Yeah, I doubt it is coincidental, given Race Retro has been League Cup Final weekend for ages.

[Derwent Motorsport]

It seems so counter productive.  Both would gain from being a few weeks apart.

[LittleChris]

Well, I enjoyed RR anyway, better value than Autosport which was hugely disappointing and has a premium for a demo I don't want to see.  But it does need to be bigger with a colder autojumble.  I put that down to the Cockney ****s maliciously trying to murder it.

 

Hmmm - Teddington / Richmond ( posh SW  London area) = Cockney . Okay, as long as you admit Birmingham therefore  must = Aston