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Proposed 2024 tyre blanket ban


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#1 gillesfan76

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 13:08

https://www.grandpri...ot-a-done-deal/

 

Mods, please feel free to merge this if a topic already exists. I did a quick search and could not find one.

 

The proposed tyre blanket ban for 2024 is under discussions and needs team agreement to go ahead. The drivers have already spoken out against it with Lewis, Max, Lando and Magnussen all saying it won’t work and will lead to many more crashes.

 

The drivers are of course referring to tyres that Pirelli hasn’t yet developed. Pirelli’s intent is to develop tyres that will have much more grip from cold but whether they can actually achieve that is another thing. Even if they improve it a lot, it will still be a compromise and I suspect the tyres will be more fragile to higher temp inputs such as being pushed hard and will likely suffer more thermal deg. I doubt there’s a free lunch here with the design such as Pirelli can develop a tyre that has more grip when cold, warms up faster but doesn’t suffer notably more thermal degradation.

 

On the flip side, SC restarts will be a little more controlled for the cars that haven’t pitted if the tyres are such that they still retain most of their grip as the temps fall away during the SC period.

 

I think at the very least, Pirelli should actually put a suitable prototype on the table and the teams test that and only sign off if they’re happy with the product. As it is now, Pirelli has done a test last year with the drivers on an early prototype that falls very short of the mark and when the drivers complain, Pirelli retorts “But it’s not the final version, which will be better” and expect the teams to sign off on nothing but hope.

 

What do people think - do you support the proposed tyre blanket ban?



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#2 BleuMurmure

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 13:12

They do this as much for environmental reasons as for the show. Both are important.

 

The drivers will moan, but the good ones will adapt.



#3 pacificquay

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 13:14

Drivers don't like change, that's why they're complaining.

 

Series that don't have tyre warmers tend to benefit from not having them.



#4 Joseki

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 13:16

Better for the enviroment and it's another skill to master for drivers.

 

Win win situation.



#5 Stephane

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 13:19

A skill they all have before F1 anyway

#6 gillesfan76

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 13:23

Yeah I don’t mind it as long as it doesn’t result in constant SC due to crashes. I’m not convinced at what Pirelli can produce, but I don’t mind tyres that drop off a thermal cliff if that’s what they have to compromise on.



#7 Victor_RO

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 13:27

Plenty of other series do well enough without tire warmers. None of the series on the ladder to F1 have them either. So yes, definitely supporting it.



#8 Sterzo

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 13:31

High grip, low grip, tyres that won't warm, predictable tyres, unpredictable tyres, tyres that take 1 lap to warm, tyres that take 2 laps to warm - we've seen it all. The best drivers in the world piling off the track en masse because their tyres weren't up to temperature? Must have missed that.



#9 Bloggsworth

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 13:31

They manage to make it work at Indianapolis and elsewhere, what's the problem? Unheated tyres cornering at upwards of 200MPH without crashing - maybe they are better drivers.... I'll get my coat!


Edited by Bloggsworth, 27 February 2023 - 13:33.


#10 TheFish

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 13:37

As has been mentioned, it's fine in IndyCar. It even promotes overtaking and extra strategy as it takes half a lap or so to get them up to temperature and drivers know they have a small window to get stuff done.



#11 pdac

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 14:57

They've been trying to get rid of them for years now. Every time a date is proposed, the teams and the drivers campaign to keep them. Every time, so far, they have succeeded. I see no reason why they won't succeed again here. It's pretty ridiculous that they cannot just accept and adapt.



#12 JimmyClark

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 15:34

I presume Hamilton in particular is against it given Mercedes have recently had problems getting tyres warmed up - much like his exagerrated back pain over the porpoising, it is all rather political. And that goes for all drivers/teams who don't want something - they all do it. But to say it is 'dangerous' and 'wastes fuel' is laughable, especially as it is commonplace in other series. 

 

I'm very much in favour of it, as it is a historic skill being able to warm up new tyres, and anything that makes the drivers' lives a bit more difficult and a chance to show more facets to their talent should be welcomed. 



#13 ensign14

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 15:47

Not sure a blanket ban on tyres would work.  Would be a bit harsh on the wheels.



#14 SenorSjon

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 15:49

This should have been banned long ago. It just takes forever (again). If Indycar survives ovals without pre-heated tires, F1 will do just fine.



#15 P123

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 16:13

It adds a new variable to strategy, and many other series can do without them, so I'm sure all the clever minds in F1 will manage just fine.  The drivers don't seem big fans of the proposed ban, but there is always resistance to change.



#16 nivoglibina

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 17:13

It will reduce the chance of pulling off an undercut, so it actually might make things a little more boring with everyone trying to go as long as possible.



#17 Stephane

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Posted 27 February 2023 - 17:47

Undercuts are boring also

#18 loki

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Posted 28 February 2023 - 05:26

I’m sure “thee worlds greatest drivers” will do fine without them.

#19 PitViperRacing

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Posted 28 February 2023 - 05:41

It will reduce the chance of pulling off an undercut, so it actually might make things a little more boring with everyone trying to go as long as possible.


I'd imagine it'd replace the undercut threat with the threat of being overtaken when you come out on cold tyres.

I actually think it'd lead to more exciting racing/strategy.

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#20 renzmann

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Posted 28 February 2023 - 08:32

The result of the ban won't harm all teams equally, even if they had a full winter to prepare for the ban. RBR will have less problems to adapt than Merc, I reckon. I reckon that'd be another reason for not banning the tire blankets.



#21 Myrvold

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 01:52

F2 manages fine with no tyre blankets and Pirelli tyres.

#22 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 02:13

Folks are already upset about DRS flybys......The cold tire flybys will be even funnier.....



#23 Beri

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 09:15

Folks are already upset about DRS flybys......The cold tire flybys will be even funnier.....

 

Nah. Seeing a car on cold tires struggling for grip, tail wiggling and getting overtaken is at least an overtake where the defending driver visibly has done everything in his might to prevent the overtake. DRS is just a lame pass by.



#24 pUs

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 09:18

The teams and drivers will adapt and it won't take long to get there. 



#25 Brian60

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 09:52

I'm all for it, I'd even go further. Mandate a 1 tyre policy, why do we need to see 7 (wets and inters included) tyres for every race? Just one compound that will gradually lose its performance value until they are basically useless after say 45 laps (random figure) That means each team will have to stop at least once per race and because its one compound from the get go, every team is in the same boat regarding tyres - they all have the same and the teams either cope with them or they don't. A team can go all out and change them after 20 laps and again after 40, or they can go the 45 laps and do one change. It should make for better racing.



#26 BRG

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 10:19

Yes, Brian60, yes, yes, yes!!!!   No more chees tyres, no more blankets, no more 'tactical' pit-stops, no more under and over-cutting.  Just proper racing.



#27 JimmyClark

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 12:11

It makes me think.... when was the last time we had a season without different tyre compounds at a race weekend OR a tyre war? (both bringing performance differences between teams). Was it 2000?

 

That wasn't too terrible a year in terms of racing ,especially with the narrow track cars and the grooves in the tyres (hopefully we never see those damn grooves again). 


Edited by JimmyClark, 01 March 2023 - 12:11.


#28 paulb

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 12:47

Yes please. Another opportunity for the drivers to demonstrate their skills. Or not.

 

I like it because would bring a non-optimal element into F1. They will be able to deal with it.



#29 JeePee

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 12:56

I'm all for it, I'd even go further. Mandate a 1 tyre policy, why do we need to see 7 (wets and inters included) tyres for every race? Just one compound that will gradually lose its performance value until they are basically useless after say 45 laps (random figure) That means each team will have to stop at least once per race and because its one compound from the get go, every team is in the same boat regarding tyres - they all have the same and the teams either cope with them or they don't. A team can go all out and change them after 20 laps and again after 40, or they can go the 45 laps and do one change. It should make for better racing.

The current tyres don't work like that. You can either go all out for 3 laps, or go a little slower to keep the temps in check, and do 40. There's nothing in between. The tyres will either overheat, or they don't.



#30 pdac

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 13:48

The current tyres don't work like that. You can either go all out for 3 laps, or go a little slower to keep the temps in check, and do 40. There's nothing in between. The tyres will either overheat, or they don't.

 

You're choice of words says it all. Why do the tyres have to stay as they are?



#31 Fastcake

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Posted 01 March 2023 - 14:06

We’ve had an imminent tyre blanket ban for 15 years now, I’m just going to be amazed if they can actually do it.

I see zero reason that the drivers won’t be able to cope. Every other series without tyre warmers manages fine, including Formula 2 which uses the same tyres.

#32 Rumblestrip

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Posted 07 June 2023 - 18:39

I see Ferrari and Mercedes took part in 2 days of tyre testing after the Spanish GP (not sure why RB weren't involved)
https://www.f1techni...f04f38624113411

 

 



#33 OO7

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Posted 07 June 2023 - 19:13

Personally I don't like it.  I like the idea of a driver out on fresh tyres able to 'go for it' immediately, especially when in close combat with another car.  With tyre blankets this sort of strategy battle can happen at close quarters with a car emerging from the pits in close proximity to a rival.  With tyre blankets the same strategy would have the car emerging from the pits way ahead on cold tyres, with the rival taking half a lap to a lap before closing in.



#34 Myrvold

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Posted 07 June 2023 - 19:37

I see Ferrari and Mercedes took part in 2 days of tyre testing after the Spanish GP (not sure why RB weren't involved)
https://www.f1techni...f04f38624113411


RB will get another test.

If they want to.

#35 GrumpyYoungMan

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Posted 07 June 2023 - 19:45

We’ve had an imminent tyre blanket ban for 15 years now, I’m just going to be amazed if they can actually do it.

I see zero reason that the drivers won’t be able to cope. Every other series without tyre warmers manages fine, including Formula 2 which uses the same tyres.

“Managing it” may have nothing to do with the issue, as all the changes they make require re-adaptation…

#36 loki

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Posted 07 June 2023 - 20:34

 Bringing tires to temp and managing wear is basic racecraft.



#37 PayasYouRace

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Posted 08 June 2023 - 09:14

It makes me think.... when was the last time we had a season without different tyre compounds at a race weekend OR a tyre war? (both bringing performance differences between teams). Was it 2000?

That wasn't too terrible a year in terms of racing ,especially with the narrow track cars and the grooves in the tyres (hopefully we never see those damn grooves again).


There were two dry compounds back then, weren’t there? Wasn’t that the period where the driver had to commit to which compound they wanted for qualifying and the race?

#38 DS27

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Posted 08 June 2023 - 09:17

The fact that F1 can't just implement this and be done with it is rather sad. I can see nothing but upside.



#39 SenorSjon

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Posted 08 June 2023 - 12:21

There were two dry compounds back then, weren’t there? Wasn’t that the period where the driver had to commit to which compound they wanted for qualifying and the race?

 

Yes, from '03 ish onwards I believe it was. Iirc it was introduced with parc ferme so the tire spec was locked in as well.



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#40 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 08 June 2023 - 14:25

This is just another step in trying to Dumb down the pinnacle....And fix something that wasn't broken.....

#41 gillesfan76

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Posted 08 June 2023 - 15:22

F2 doesn’t have blankets and does use Pirellis, but I don’t think the claim “uses the same tyres” is accurate. The loads in F1 are a lot higher so Pirelli will need to create a tyre that can withstand the loads but also warm up quickly.



#42 ARTGP

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Posted 08 June 2023 - 16:15

We've only just reached some semblance of stability with the tires, and still quite a narrow working window. I'm fearful of giving Pirelli a new challenge to screw up. With that said, just make up your minds and get on with it. 


Edited by ARTGP, 08 June 2023 - 16:15.


#43 southernstars

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 02:53

F2 doesn’t have blankets and does use Pirellis, but I don’t think the claim “uses the same tyres” is accurate. The loads in F1 are a lot higher so Pirelli will need to create a tyre that can withstand the loads but also warm up quickly.

 

Yes, and in the colder conditions in Melbourne I watched F2 driver after F2 driver skid off right in front of me through the gravel as they exited the pitlane, because the tyres were cold and had no grip. Eventually that caused a huge accident down at turn 3.



#44 gillesfan76

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 04:49

Yes, and in the colder conditions in Melbourne I watched F2 driver after F2 driver skid off right in front of me through the gravel as they exited the pitlane, because the tyres were cold and had no grip. Eventually that caused a huge accident down at turn 3.

 

Thanks for the insight. So basically when some people are claiming that F2 is doing well enough, they’re not aware of or otherwise ignoring that in cooler conditions there’s high potential for carnage. Yeah I don’t trust Pirelli to make adequate tyres. But I guess we’ll see one way or another.



#45 Beri

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 07:53

Yes, and in the colder conditions in Melbourne I watched F2 driver after F2 driver skid off right in front of me through the gravel as they exited the pitlane, because the tyres were cold and had no grip. Eventually that caused a huge accident down at turn 3.

 

Only 3 drivers if I recall correctly. The rest of the 19 drivers managed just fine.



#46 SenorSjon

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 09:38

Yes, and in the colder conditions in Melbourne I watched F2 driver after F2 driver skid off right in front of me through the gravel as they exited the pitlane, because the tyres were cold and had no grip. Eventually that caused a huge accident down at turn 3.

 

We call that learning moments. ;)



#47 pdac

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 11:07

This is just another step in trying to Dumb down the pinnacle....And fix something that wasn't broken.....

 

I'd prefer to see the pinnacle be the pinnacle of car design not tyre design and usage. I'm happy to see the challenge of getting the tyres up to operating temperature quickly be part of the car design and the drivers skills. That's where I want to see the challenge - a challenge to the designers and the drivers. Having gizmos that sort that and remove the obstacles that sets one team apart from another is not what I want.



#48 Sterzo

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 12:03

I'd prefer to see the pinnacle be the pinnacle of car design not tyre design and usage. I'm happy to see the challenge of getting the tyres up to operating temperature quickly be part of the car design and the drivers skills. That's where I want to see the challenge - a challenge to the designers and the drivers. Having gizmos that sort that and remove the obstacles that sets one team apart from another is not what I want.

 

Especially when the gizmo is actually the same thing your granny uses to warm her bed.
 



#49 southernstars

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 12:49

Only 3 drivers if I recall correctly. The rest of the 19 drivers managed just fine.

 

But very specifically, the drivers who stopped for new tyres during the race - tyres that were not kept in blankets.



#50 MasterOfCoin

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Posted 09 June 2023 - 15:04

I'd prefer to see the pinnacle be the pinnacle of car design not tyre design and usage. I'm happy to see the challenge of getting the tyres up to operating temperature quickly be part of the car design and the drivers skills. That's where I want to see the challenge - a challenge to the designers and the drivers. Having gizmos that sort that and remove the obstacles that sets one team apart from another is not what I want.

How can you say that after years of Pirelli delivering tires not fit for purpose?......The tires that are supplied should also meet highest standard of the pinnacle, save the tire blanket ban and degradation gimmicks for the other series ....