2072 replies to this topic

[ensign14]

Well, no, in 2021 the FIA deliberately and maliciously ignored the rules to get the result changed.  2008 was well before the end of the season and there were about a dozen possible outcomes even had everyone known everything in real time.

[PlatenGlass]

The difference is that in 2021 the shoe was on a British foot, not a Brazilian one…

The old British thing again.

[Sterzo]

The old British thing again.

Well, it was Piquet's cheating which cost Massa, a clear proof of British bias. No Brazilians involved.

[RoryFormula1]

The difference is that in 2021 the shoe was on a British foot, not a Brazilian one…

If someone doesn’t see the difference between a single team cheating, with no precedent nor rule to cancel an entire race, and the race director changing the rules then they are dumber than a box of rocks.

[P123]

The difference is that in 2021 the shoe was on a British foot, not a Brazilian one…

 

That's one difference I guess...  Piquet Jr's right foot was certainly Brazilian.  But Masi is Australian, not British.  There are of course many other differences.

 

Though, joking aside, if you think nothing was made of the cheating in Singapore, or that any complaints about AD are unjustified then I'm a tiny bit embarrassed for you, and the person that like your post.  

[thefinalapex]

That's one difference I guess...  Piquet Jr's right foot was certainly Brazilian.  But Masi is Australian, not British.  There are of course many other differences.

 

Though, joking aside, if you think nothing was made of the cheating in Singapore, or that any complaints about AD are unjustified then I'm a tiny bit embarrassed for you, and the person that like your post.  

 

You know very well the selective outrage on this forum and that is what Gravelingrass is pointing at, the last race AD racethread with Verstappen coming together with Piastri is a good example of that, an incident that has happend so many times but if i didn't know any better you would think that it was the first time in F1 history that it has happend. Seeing some of those potshots and derogatory remarks aimed at Massa in this thread is also quite low... you can disagree with him seeking 'justice' but i can understand his anger after learning about what happend about Singapore(same way i would understand if Hamilton does that about AD), but i personally would have directed that anger at Renault/Briatore/Piquet instead. I can't imagine that in his Ferrari years that he hasn't asked Alonso about it, i am still not convinced that Fernando didn't know, it was such a bizarre strategy..

[Gravelngrass]

You know very well the selective outrage on this forum and that is what Gravelingrass is pointing at, the last race AD racethread with Verstappen coming together with Piastri is a good example of that, an incident that has happend so many times but if i didn't know any better you would think that it was the first time in F1 history that it has happend. Seeing some of those potshots and derogatory remarks aimed at Massa in this thread is also quite low... you can disagree with him seeking 'justice' but i can understand his anger after learning about what happend about Singapore(same way i would understand if Hamilton does that about AD), but i personally would have directed that anger at Renault/Briatore/Piquet instead. I can't imagine that in his Ferrari years that he hasn't asked Alonso about it, i am still not convinced that Fernando didn't know, it was such a bizarre strategy..

Yep. The fact that people get so outraged just reinforces the point.

[PlatenGlass]

You can't compare apples and oranges and use it as evidence for British bias.

[P123]

You know very well the selective outrage on this forum and that is what Gravelingrass is pointing at, the last race AD racethread with Verstappen coming together with Piastri is a good example of that, an incident that has happend so many times but if i didn't know any better you would think that it was the first time in F1 history that it has happend. Seeing some of those potshots and derogatory remarks aimed at Massa in this thread is also quite low... you can disagree with him seeking 'justice' but i can understand his anger after learning about what happend about Singapore(same way i would understand if Hamilton does that about AD), but i personally would have directed that anger at Renault/Briatore/Piquet instead. I can't imagine that in his Ferrari years that he hasn't asked Alonso about it, i am still not convinced that Fernando didn't know, it was such a bizarre strategy..

 

Everybody is selective.  Crashes happen all the time.  Some get more focus than others.  As far as the AD24 race thread, that appeared to be one person on one side arguing with four or five on the other. 

 

The Singapore saga has had a fair few twists over the years.  It's not been forgotten about.  There was plenty of outrage, which seems to have oddly eluded the person whose post you 'liked'.   Briatore is back walking the paddock.  Perhaps an indication of Italian bias.   The current status is Massa seeking to use it to further his own ambitions, so that is why the commentary is on Massa.  Is he the injured party that he needs to be in order to obtain what he thinks was stolen from him? 

 

I wouldn't say that and the AD '21 situation are entirely similar.  One race was run as per the regulations, the other not.  One involved a bit of foul play early in a race many rounds before the end of the season, the other on the penultimate lap of the final race.  One set up one particular party to be screwed over, the other not quite so extreme as other contenders were impacted, as much as anybody ever has under any standard SC.  

 

Yes, people should be pissed off at the Briatore & co for Singapore... I'm fairly sure they still are!  Doesn't absolve Massa from questions/ criticism regarding his own approach to it.  And as for AD21, I'd be very very surprised if people were annoyed at anybody other than the FIA!

[JL14]

Date is set for Massa's case:

 

Between October 28 and 31, representatives of the International Automobile Federation (FIA), Formula One Management (FOM) and former Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone will be present at the British High Court in London to discuss the legal aspects of the case.

[Beri]

Date is set for Massa's case:

 

Between October 28 and 31, representatives of the International Automobile Federation (FIA), Formula One Management (FOM) and former Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone will be present at the British High Court in London to discuss the legal aspects of the case.

 

Thats a long way to go. Nearly 3 years after Massa decided to press on?

[pdac]

Thats a long way to go. Nearly 3 years after Massa decided to press on?

 

That's the speed of the British legal system.

[BRG]

That's the speed of the British legal system.

It's not helped by all these cases that actually have SFA to do with the UK.  If our legal establishment concentrated on applying justice for British people and about British events, there might be speedier outcomes.  But they want the big fat overseas pay-day, so everyone gets to wait.  

[Sterzo]

Interesting (and surprising) to see that Ecclestone is involved. The FIA lawyers must have a nice list of questions about the convicted fraudster's probity.

[pdac]

Interesting (and surprising) to see that Ecclestone is involved. The FIA lawyers must have a nice list of questions about the convicted fraudster's probity.

 

He'll likely be dead before the case ever gets heard.

[ensign14]

Thats a long way to go. Nearly 3 years after Massa decided to press on?

Depends when he issued though.  75% likely that there would also have been a court-ordered mediation.  But no idea what this hearing is. 

[BRG]

Interesting (and surprising) to see that Ecclestone is involved. The FIA lawyers must have a nice list of questions about the convicted fraudster's probity.

As the FIA, FOM and Bernie are the co-defendants in this case, I doubt if the FIA will want to ask Bernie any questions at all and risk opening up jar of worms.  And Massa's lawyers won't want to put Bernie's probity in question as his alleged statement appears to be their main evidence.  

[alframsey]

Bernie seems to really have an issue with Lewis at time, I don't believe they knew about the race fix from Renault - how would they have known? Anyway, Massa threw that WDC away and should have been champion had he been more able. That Ferrari was quicker and Lewis performing probably the worst he has in any WDC winning year he's had. Massa the perennial bottler.

[JL14]

He'll likely be dead before the case ever gets heard.

 

It will be on his 90th birthday 

[PlatenGlass]

It will be on his 90th birthday

95th!

[Rodaknee]

Date is set for Massa's case:

 

Between October 28 and 31, representatives of the International Automobile Federation (FIA), Formula One Management (FOM) and former Formula 1 boss Bernie Ecclestone will be present at the British High Court in London to discuss the legal aspects of the case.

I look forward to Bernie repeating his revolving door game.  Followed by him claiming to have forgotten everything, as per usual.

[JL14]

I look forward to Bernie repeating his revolving door game.  Followed by him claiming to have forgotten everything, as per usual.

 

Motorsport.com understands there is a strike-out application which could see the case thrown out before it begins.

Massa legal battle over F1 2008 title could be thrown out before it begins

[ensign14]

It will be an application for summary judgment.  I.e. even taking all the facts Massa alleges as proved, there is no legal case there at all.

 

It's almost a no-lose thing for the defendants.  If they win, that's it, game over.  If they lose, they will have to pay Massa's costs of fighting the application; BUT it does not mean Massa wins the CASE.  That still has to go on to trial and he could still lose on factual or legal grounds.

 

There's no duty of care, no breach if there is a duty, and no contractual remedy.  It's hopeless as a legal case.