77 replies to this topic

[OvDrone]

Hello ladies & gentlemen,

Was thinking that there was not specific thread for Supercars so I thought to put a general thread up for everything Touring Cars outside of Forum favorite BTCC to have a space here to check out this type of racing worldwide.

The WTCC turned into the WTCR and starting this year, the TCR World Tour which really confuses me but alas, that first race will be at the end of April at the Algarve. 

But the first round of the Supercars season started this weekend at the Newcastle 500 in Aussieland with the new Gen 3 cars. Next round will be at Melbourne with the 400 in support of the F1 Australian Grand Prix.

Below you can find some highlights of the races, as well as some moments from previous years at Newcastle:





Race #1:



Race #2: 



I also invite you all to check out the phenomenal website called 'Touring Car Times' where you can find the calendar and news for everything Touring Car in the world. Top tier pro content:

https://www.touringcartimes.com/ 

Enjoy and let's have a great year in Touring Car racing    


 

Edited by OvDrone, 12 March 2023 - 14:56.

[WonderboyF1]

I’ll reserve judgment for later in the season with gen3 supercars but a very poor opening weekend, don’t think the drivers are to impressed with the cars either.

[BRG]

So the decline of world touring cars continues.  Not a World Championship anymore, not a Cup anymore, just a Tour - whatever that is..  The inability of the FIA to put together a credible world level series continues, whilst national series, run by people who know what they are doing, still flourish.   

[Ben1445]

One national series I'm curious about this year is the Scandinavian Touring Car Championship (STCC) starting in June. 
 
Mainly because of this: 
 
STCC World's First 100% Electric National Championship 2023
https://www.stcc.se/stcc-2023/
 
"The new STCC cars are based on the latest electric production cars that private individuals can buy and drive on the road. The cars are then modified for competition in terms of safety equipment, brakes, shock absorbers, electric motors and much more.
 
The racing cars are powered by a 550 horsepower electric motor in combination with a 45 kWh battery at 800 volts. First models to be revealed are Tesla Model 3, BMW i4 and Volkswagen ID.3."

 

 

Which if they can pull it off is quite significant. ETCR doesn't even have cars based on production EVs, they're all ICE chassis with a spec ETCR EV powertrain fitted, with no direct road going EV counterpart. 

Edited by Ben1445, 13 March 2023 - 14:18.

[Ben24]

I’ll reserve judgment for later in the season with gen3 supercars but a very poor opening weekend, don’t think the drivers are to impressed with the cars either.

Agreed. After all the hype around the new cars the racing seemed worse than the last generation. Will give it a few rounds before making a proper judgement though

[Ben24]

Still amazed that race direction can give Brown a penalty for his bump and run but then not SVG in the same race. Can't see any way that anyone could possibly argue that Brown's was a worse offence than Van Gisbergen's. Pretty sure that SVG would've received a penalty if not for his somewhat controversial disqualification the day before.

[LolaB0860]

The new Supercars looked amazing, but racing was was lackluster... not to mention the immature off-track shenanigans. Everybody kept crashing in the support categories too, there were multi car pileups everywhere

 

But it'll probably be better at Melbourne since it's short sprints and you can overtake better

Edited by LolaB0860, 13 March 2023 - 23:11.

[BRG]

Which if they can pull it off is quite significant. ETCR doesn't even have cars based on production EVs, they're all ICE chassis with a spec ETCR EV powertrain fitted, with no direct road going EV counterpart. 

The ETCR effort was a shameful shambles.  Quite what they were thinking is not at all clear.  There is an obvious opening for an EV touring car series and plenty of potential cars to enter it.  

[LolaB0860]

There's a war still happening apparently in Oz
https://www.speedcaf...fake-narrative/

Edited by LolaB0860, 14 March 2023 - 18:44.

[OvDrone]

At least there's drama. 

Agreed with Ben on STCC. Was just about to put it in the thread title, but declined at the last minute. Yikes. Next year   

I'll hold my verdict on Gen3 until after Symmons Plains and Hidden Valley in late Spring. Those tracks I like and watch regularly. Newcastle ain't the best first race for early conclusions. 

[balage06]

Drama aside, as someone who only follows the on-track action in Australia, I thought the season opener was a decent start. I think the new cars look much better. One of the things put me off Supercars is the ridiculous look of that gnome previous gen Mustang. It was just wrong. And the action wasn't that bad either. So I don't know, isn't there a conflict of interest between the drivers and the organizers, just like in FE for example? Because if you'd ask the drivers what they want, they would obviously want more downforce, grippier tyres and faster cars, but on the other hand, the series wants a better spectacle. It's hard to judge if the complaints are justified or the field was just simply moved out of their comfort zone after so many years.

Edited by balage06, 15 March 2023 - 07:39.

[LolaB0860]

Many were also likely playing it safe considering they're new cars

I mean the support races seemed like total crashfests in comparison, even taking into account that the level of quality might be lower

[ezequiel]

In some TCR news, TCR Europe has replaced the Austrian round for this year with a weekend at Pau and TCR South America has confirmed that the San Luis round will be held at La Pedrera (instead of Potrero de los Funes, that they wanted to bring back from the dead). It's also a TCR World Tour round.

 

Also in TCR South America, Paladini Racing have showed their Toyota GR Corolla Sport TCR and it looks very nice indeed

 

[WonderboyF1]

SVG is a big fish in a small pond, i think regardless of his thoughts on gen 3 he has already committed to go elsewhere for a crack as this is his last year of his current deal. McLaughlin has showed it can work although I wouldn’t expect SVG in indycars probably WEC.

[Alfisti]

Supercars should be a warning to F1 not to go to too many street tracks. Yeah big crowds, great tv spectacle but the racing is shite. 

[LucaP]

Supercars should be a warning to F1 not to go to too many street tracks. Yeah big crowds, great tv spectacle but the racing is shite.

I bet most people inside F1 don't even know what Supercars is, to be honest.
They should

[balage06]

I bet most people inside F1 don't even know what Supercars is, to be honest.
They should

 

That would be next level ignorance, because they've been sharing the track in Melbourne for years.

[ClubmanGT]

Supercars should be a warning to F1 not to go to too many street tracks. Yeah big crowds, great tv spectacle but the racing is shite. 

 

 

I'll admit, the first races of the weekend at Newcastle were entertaining, but just in the wrong way. The turning point was the Aussie Racers in the 2nd race on the Saturday, where it was all fine and dandy until about three laps from the end where it all went balls-up over the space of about three minutes. You eventually get sick of seeing support races run 50% under the safety car, only for the main event to have a single incident and end up time-certain for broadcast reasons.

 

Having said that there was a race at Townsville one year where two Excels went side-by-side for a whole lap and it was genuinely the most thrilling bit of tin-top racing I've seen in years. No bump and runs, no sudden swerving, just two drivers giving each other enough room to get around the track.

 

The biggest limiting factor for SVG is always going to be what he can fit into, not whether he can win in it. 

[ezequiel]

Discovery Sports Events withdraws from 2023 ETCR promoter role

 

The future of the 2023 ETCR eTouring Car World Cup is in doubt after Discovery Sports Events revealed that it will not promote the series this season.

 

Question marks over the series have been raised in recent months with no news on a calendar for the 2023 campaign, and no word from Hyundai, Cupra or Romeo Ferraris on potential entries.

 

Last season marked the first year for ETCR as a full FIA series, with Cupra racer Adrien Tambay securing the title.

 

However, it remains to be seen whether the 2023 season will take place with a different promoter or whether the electric touring car series will now not return until next year.

 

[ezequiel]

In other news TCR South America begins its season this weekend at Alta Gracia. Raphael Reis got pole position in a W2 Pro GP Cupra.

[Ben1445]

Discovery Sports Events withdraws from 2023 ETCR promoter role

Well, I can’t say that’s much of a surprise. What they were doing simply wasn’t working.

Maybe a hiatus and/or a rethink before coming back with new promotors, rules and formats could salvage something from it. Also maybe not.

Someone will get this EV touring car thing right at some point.

[ezequiel]

I seem to recall the costs of running this ETCRs were similar to the defunct TC1s, which themselves were too expensive to keep WTCC alive. Maybe something like the STCC is trying would have a better future.

[Disgrace]

I watched the very first ETCR race, but the format was horrible. Trying to reinvent the wheel.

[potmotr]

Shane van Gisbergen doubles down on his criticism of Mark Skaife after the craziness of Newcastle on this podcast: https://open.spotify...4r0NlzoSQt3RunF

 

Describe's Skaife's conduct as "average" and still mad that Skaife and the sports rulers are "pretending its all rosey" when the new Gen 3 car needs much more work. 

 

From about 13 minutes. 

[Ben1445]

I watched the very first ETCR race, but the format was horrible. Trying to reinvent the wheel.

Yeah I think the format was a real kicker for me. They went for the spectacle of short and sharp races trying to highlight speed and power, but really it just feels like a series of inconsequential demo runs. 

 

Formula E (though opinions on the overall level of success may remain mixed) has definitely had a lot more success working the energy management angle, providing races of a familiar length and level of racing strategy. It's never been keen to make a fuss over outright speed, at least not until really quite recently.

 

I seem to recall the costs of running this ETCRs were similar to the defunct TC1s, which themselves were too expensive to keep WTCC alive. Maybe something like the STCC is trying would have a better future.

Yeah, I hope so. Something with actual EV models, decent running costs and a no-nonsense approach to racing I feel stands the best chance. 

[ezequiel]

For anyone interested: someone uploaded to YouTube past weekend's TCR South America races at Alta Gracia, the first of the season.

 

 

[Disgrace]

Yeah I think the format was a real kicker for me. They went for the spectacle of short and sharp races trying to highlight speed and power, but really it just feels like a series of inconsequential demo runs. 

 

Formula E (though opinions on the overall level of success may remain mixed) has definitely had a lot more success working the energy management angle, providing races of a familiar length and level of racing strategy. It's never been keen to make a fuss over outright speed, at least not until really quite recently.

 

Right. Formula E has toyed with various formats and things like FanBoost, Attack Mode, etc. but fundamentally it's still a grid full of 20+ cars going qualifying and then racing to the flag. That is what ETCR should have been from the beginning.

[Ben1445]

So there's a Auto Motor und Sport article about the STCC here: https://www.auto-mot...tro-autos-2023/

 

The've kept the price of the cars down to just under €300,000, which it seems is somewhere around or even below what you might expect to need to put together a decent BTCC car. Article says that's twice the cost of a TCR car. Argument from the organisers is that EV opens up better sponsor pathways and breeds more international interest, but that they also can't go too high on cost or they'll encounter similar issues to ETCR. 

 

TC1 car costs were getting to somewhere between €500,000 to €1 million (?), whilst Jaguar's I-Pace eTrophy reportedly cost an insane £800,000 all-in to race a season. 

 

They're also using second-hand road cars as the base, and then has EPWR fitting them out with standardised powertrain components supplied by STARD. I guess that's not too dissimilar in concept from the NGTC engine in BTCC, and should work as a good starting point. ETCR and WRX essentially did/do the same only using ICE chassis as the donor instead of EVs.  

 

Cars will weigh 1500 kg and have 410 kW/550 hp, as well as using regular tyres. Also says that races will be set at 12-15 minutes duration. 

Edited by Ben1445, 30 March 2023 - 13:18.

[LolaB0860]

Supercars not entirely happy in being the support act for F2/F3 as well but still want to stay at AGP

https://www.speedcaf...s-new-agp-deal/

 

Also "air crash" style investigations going on regarding the two AGP fire frenzies...

https://www.speedcaf...-mustang-fires/

https://www.speedcaf...st-agp-meeting/

 

 

Edited by LolaB0860, 04 April 2023 - 20:11.

[Ben1445]

Some STCC news in that Cupra Sweden are supporting the entry of three Cupra Born cars (which uses the same MEB platform as the ID.3) 

https://www.touringc...for-pwr-racing/

 

That adds to the previously announced Tesla Model 3, BMW i4 and VW ID.3 entires. 

 

 

Also sounds like the Helsingborg event will be a 'Race of Champions' style head-to-head knockout, with all other rounds being classic sprint races of 15 minutes. Not sure how I feel about that, since to my mind that is what went very wrong with ETCR....  but at least it is only one of the rounds. 

[ezequiel]

If you didn't catch up with TCR racing this past weekend, TCR UK started its season at Snetterton with two fun races (especially the reverse grid one)

 

Race 1:

 

Race 2:

 

Also, TCR Eastern Europe began the past weekend. The races are available for free at tcr-series.tv. You need to register to watch the content.

[ezequiel]

TCR South America raced this past weekend at Rosario with two very entertaining races.

 

 

[ezequiel]

TCR Europe may be struggling for entries this year, but TCR Italy has 43 drivers on its entry list for round 1 this weekend.

[Ben1445]

STCC has announced a return to Gothenburg for 2024 

https://www.stcc.se/...ktigt-samarbete

 

The current 2023 season also has a city event in Helsingborg. Both Gothenburg and Helsingborg will use the Head 2 Head format in a Race of Champions style shoot out.

 

I'm personally not too keen on making these city events a different format from the circuit races, but I suppose logistically speaking it's easier/cheaper to set up than a full street circuit. 

 

[OvDrone]

Ladies and gentlemen, the start of a strange and confusing new era is at hand with what is both the first TCR World Tour round and opening TCR Europe round at Portimao. Feels like we already had 500 races here in all series since 2020. I vaguely even remember some Nascar here lol

All jokes aside, check out this very insightful article courtesy of the Touring Car times to get an idea of what the grid is looking like for this weekend:

https://www.touringc...ner-at-algarve/ 



Who's ready? 

I am ? Maybe ? We'll see.

And also, DOWNUNDA, we have the Perth round at Wanneroo in the Supercars 2023 season. A fun little track, so make sure you check out this thread for some highlights of the much maligned Gen 3 cars. 

But it's the 600th race of your 2015 Champion - Mark Winterbottom, so here's a cheeky highlights video from the official channel to get you primed for this weekend:

[balage06]

I'll be honest, I expected much more from this World Tour thing, looks like it negatively affected the participation in TCR Europe as well, or are there other reasons why the field is so weak this year?

[OvDrone]

I'll be honest, I expected much more from this World Tour thing, looks like it negatively affected the participation in TCR Europe as well, or are there other reasons why the field is so weak this year?

 

I honestly don't know or understand what is happening anymore.

And it seems that they don't either. 

[ezequiel]

Only 8 cars confirmed for the full World Tour season if I'm not mistaken, as Bargwanna and N. Girolami have been confirmed for a part time season. But I'm even more surprised by the lack of entries in TCR Europe. The British driver that just decided to switch from TCR UK (which has a healthy grid on its own) to the European series may start to doubt his decision.

 

Here are the results from today's two test sessions for the joint World Tour/European championship.

[ezequiel]

I'll be honest, I expected much more from this World Tour thing, looks like it negatively affected the participation in TCR Europe as well, or are there other reasons why the field is so weak this year?

Maybe TCR Italy, which had a massive grid in its first round, is also taking potential entries for the European series (like European champion F. Girolami, who switched to the Italian series this year). Also TCR Eastern Europe is a bit healthier (and someone like Ghermandi has taken his entry there from the main European championship, also Janík Motorsport)

Edited by ezequiel, 27 April 2023 - 21:19.

[OvDrone]

No one:

Literally every series: Let's start all the races at the exact same time.

TCR World Tour Race #1 is live now:



And also here are the extended highlights of the first race at Perth from earlier today in Supercars:

Edited by OvDrone, 29 April 2023 - 14:16.

[ezequiel]

So all entries score for the World Tour but the World Tour only entries don't score for the local championship (in this case, TCR Europe)

[TennisUK]

That would be next level ignorance, because they've been sharing the track in Melbourne for years.

I think you'd be surprised how many people in the paddock have zero idea what is happening outside the F1 paddock on a race weekend. Hell, check the crowds for most support races at F1 tracks compared to the main event, and I'd be surprised if many paying spectators know much about the support races either.

[ezequiel]

TCR South America raced at Termas de Río Hondo this past weekend with an endurance 60 minute race with driver changes. Here's the race with Spanish commentary.

 

 

 

TCR Europe and the TCR World Tour began their seasons at Portimao this past weekend. The races can be watched in full at TCR TV. I leave the YouTube highlights here.

 

 

[LolaB0860]

I think you'd be surprised how many people in the paddock have zero idea what is happening outside the F1 paddock on a race weekend. Hell, check the crowds for most support races at F1 tracks compared to the main event, and I'd be surprised if many paying spectators know much about the support races either.

 

It's true, and shame

 

However that's also terrible marketing by F1. I mean it's not their job to necessarily do the cross-promotion of others, but at least the series they and the FIA do have control over should be brought forward to spotlight. Better broadcasting deals and co-operation. You don't need stupid Sprint Races and Sprint Shootouts or whatever, that's why the support series are there. And even proper guests like Supercars that show up only once a year, instead of lame starting times and multiple hour gaps between them and F1 (this is of course also true with even regular F1 supports), the event timetables could rather easily be fixed to pack them properly together. Don't leave everything to the venue and local organization, who have their hands locked behind their backs anyway in many areas.

Edited by LolaB0860, 04 May 2023 - 15:37.

[Ben1445]

STCC opening round has been scrubbed and the season start delayed due to supply chain delays in the construction of the cars.

https://www.stcc.se/...ivecenter-arena

[ezequiel]

Good article about the state of TCR worldwide with some insight from Marcello Lotti. Interesting that some championships are thriving (TCR Italy and TCR China with more than 30 cars), others are doing well (TCR UK, TCR South America, TCR Eastern Europe with 20 cars or more) and others are clearly struggling (TCR Europe, TCR Australia, TCR Germany).

https://www.touringc...new-world-tour/

[balage06]

Nico to see Norbi finding his best form again. I will see them in person next week!

[AlexPrime]

Very fun TCR event at Vallelunga! 

[AlexPrime]

Huffy still has pace... amazing. I bet he will win in Macau at the end of the year.

[OvDrone]

Been quite busy these past two months but managed to check up on some Touring Cars today courtesy of Youtube.

Alongside the BTCC at Oulton Park that just concluded, we had TCR World at Hungaroring and Supercars at Darwin, Hidden Valley.

Below you can find the full TCR races as well as highlights from Supercars if you wish for more Racing other than F1, Indycar and MotoGP for today:

TCR @ Hungaroring





Supercars @ Hidden Valley